Talk:Manchester, New Hampshire

Roller derby

Reverted the NH Skatefree or Die Aka New Hampshire Roller Derby, that is the home team of nashua. Removed them & will add them to the nashua wiki if they request to do so. Other then that will monitor the site as always and revert when needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Team1up (talk • contribs) 01:14, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

New Hampshire Roller Derby practices and competes at the JFK Memorial Coliseum in Manchester, New Hampshire. The consistent deletion of New Hampshire Roller Derby appears to be done by those who are affiliated with and posting on behalf of ManchVegas Roller Girls, whose business model and status have not been referenced or verified. Also, WFTDA's website does not list ManchVegas as a member league. I removed the WFTDA affiliation and added New Hampshire Roller Derby. Did not delete ManchVegas Roller Girls in good faith that the league's existence can be verified. Currently, a previously deleted page (for non-notability) which blatantly advertises on behalf of ManchVegas Roller Girls has been reposted and is pending speedy deletion. No credible references have been found as to the validity of the claim that New Hampshire Roller Derby does not belong in this article. Encyclopediaclown (talk) 20:36, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

As stated on there own web site they train at roller kingdom in MA, They have bouts at JFK but they do not belong nor train in manchester. They train in Nashua As quoted from tehre won site: " Derby girls come in all shapes, sizes, and ages. Fishnets, tattoos and piercings are not required—some of us have them, some of us don’t. Some of the girls on the roster are lifelong athletes, others had never tried a sport outside of gym class. To be a skater:

* You must be female

* You must be 21 or older

* you must have health insurance and USARS insurance ($55 a year)

* You must sign a waiver that says when you get hurt you won’t sue us into oblivion

* You must be able to attend at least 75% of our events. Right now, we practice twice a week, eventually it will increase.

* You will need quad skates, a helmet, mouth guard, knee and elbow pads, and wrist guards. We can help you choose the right gear for derby—there are starter derby packages available for around $175.

We charge $35 a month in dues to cover rink rental fees. You don’t have to be a great skater—we can teach you the skills you need. We’re looking for women who are determined and willing to push themselves. Think you’ve got the right attitude?

* Check out the new skater page or

* email freshmeat@nhrollerderby.com

* or stop by an open skate at Roller Kingdom at Skate 3 in Tyngsboro, Mass. We hold recruiting nights one Friday a month at 7 p.m.

Team1up (talk) 22:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Their website says that they recruit in Tyngsboro, MA. It says nothing about where they practice. Roller derby leagues typically hold open recruitments at open skates hosted by rinks to attract new players who may not be ready for a full practice. Full practices are typically not disclosed to discourage public attendance and to protect skaters. This varies by league. Providence Roller Derby recruits at rinks in Narragansett, RI and Taunton, MA but compete and train in Providence under the Bank of America building. Their practice schedule is kept confidential from the public. Boston Derby Dames' team Boston Massacre recruit at rinks all over the greater Boston region, but compete in Wilmington, MA and practice in Holbrook, MA (yet they are granted consideration as one of Boston's teams). Their practice schedule is also witheld from the public. The Boston Red Sox train not just in Fenway, but also in other areas of the country for spring training, and their recruiters/scouters travel not only across the country but to other countries as well. Skate Free or Die, which is the travel team for New Hampshire Roller Derby, competes and practices at the JFK Memorial Coliseum, with an undisclosed schedule to protect their skaters from security issues. If Fenway Park is home to the Boston Red Sox because they train and compete there, then I do not see how New Hampshire Roller Derby is exempt from this same consideration, especially when their . Also, New Hampshire Roller Derby's use of the JFK is well documented by several publications online and in print. The JFK Memorial Coliseum in MAnchester, NH is their home venue for competing with teams from other states, cities, and regions. They do not practice, train, recruit, or compete in Nashua, NH. Encyclopediaclown (talk) 15:25, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to make the observation that Team1up has made a couple of attempts to publish a page for ManchVegas Roller Girls that has been deleted for blatant advertising. It appears that this user has a conflict of interest in making unbiased, objective edits to information having to do with a roller derby presence in Manchester, NH. The two leagues are both amateur leagues that would be in direct competition for venue space and recruiting efforts. I am reverting the sports section back to the previous edit, where both teams are present. Encyclopediaclown (talk) 15:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

As stated here : http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/06/squeals_on_wheels_1204776282/

"Following the nationwide resurgence of the crash-and-slam sport over the past three or four years, the group of 20- and 30-something women began rallying here last fall. They now come to Tyngsborough's Roller Kingdom every week from all over the Merrimack Valley and the southern-central sliver of New Hampshire to skate, vamp, and train for on-rink battle. They hope to begin league play in 2009"

"The group assembles at the squat Roller Kingdom building, slung along Middlesex Road just a few minutes from the New Hampshire border, every Thursday night."

Oh and in the nashua telegraph here http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071207/NEWS01/312070078/-1/XML07

"Members of the first New Hampshire women’s roller derby league, Skate Free or Die Roller Girls, work on calisthenics Thursday at Skate 3 in Tyngsborough, Mass."

Just stating the obvious.. for some reason i don't see txt anywhere that says every week we train in Manchester nh here.. etc etc etc.All i see is we have bouts in Manchester JFK that's fine that's true... All I'm stating is that there are 2 different groups who are own and run separately.. the Nashua team above and the MVRG who train and operate in Manchester not Nashua.. anyone can have bouts anywhere but training well were in Manchester there in Nashua. I have the uppermost respect for them, But historically This is wrong. Were the only team that runs out of Manchester.

To top it off if i cant create a wiki page with all the correct information for MVRG who can ? Anytime anyone creates the page the wiki trolls come out and take it away. We have valid information site resources & keep it up to date. I'm sticking to my derby guns here and would like to see this resolved asap.

Team1up (talk) 04:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Team1up, I believe you have been recently warned about contributing topics and articles where you have a conflict of interest. If you are a part of an organization you need to follow the appropriate standards for Wikipedia. As a member of the ManchVegas Roller Girls, you have not shown a neutral point of view in your edits to articles with information pertaining to New Hampshire Roller Derby.

New Hampshire Roller Derby, like so many other non-WFTDA leagues is currently chartered, insured, and sanctioned by USARS. The JFK Memorial Coliseum is a USARs sanctioned facility for roller derby events and practices held by New Hampshire Roller Derby. This sanctioning can be confirmed on the USARS website through their events listing.

The articles you are referencing are from early last year. Even those articles, including the Boston Globe's article, state that New Hampshire Roller Derby is the first and only roller derby league in NH at the time those articles were written. As far as can be certain, ManchVegas Roller Girls were not formed as of January 11th, 2008 according to an article in the HippoPress: | http://www.hippopress.com/music/nite080110b.html. The league has not practiced at the rink in Tyngsboro, MA for some time now, due to its loss of USARS sanctioning for roller derby.

Also, playing by the WFTDA rule set does NOT make a league governed by WFTDA or affiliated with the organization. It's just a standard rule set. Pioneer Valley Roller Derby in Holyoke, MA and Central Mass Roller Derby in Worcester, MA and even New Hampshire Roller Derby play by the WFTDA rule set but are not WFTDA affiliated. The WFTDA website does not list ManchVegas as an affiliated OR member league. Encyclopediaclown (talk) 14:36, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Nicknames -- ManchVegas?

Is "ManchVegas" really unique to Manchester? It's a rather common form of ironic nicknaming seen in a lot of cities: first syllable + Vegas, e.g. DorchVegas (Dorchester). --71.235.98.27 (talk) 19:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

There are no WFTDA leagues in New Hampshire, whatsoever

Skating by WFTDA's rules does not make a league a member of WFTDA. I'm not from New Hampshire, I'm not affiliated with either local league, and I'm sure they're both a bunch of great people.

Here's an OFFICIAL listing of WFTDA member leagues. You won't find the letters "NH" after any of the cities listed. Not yet, anyways. TimBRoy (talk) 07:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I've changed Manch-Vegas' affiliation to USARS (USA Roller Sports). They are not listed on the WFTDA site as members, they are listed on the USARS site as a member league. NH Roller Derby is as well. Perhaps a compromise like this that references cite-worthy sites would suit you folks better than edit wars? TimBRoy (talk) 08:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

TimBRoy, I'm not sure if your changes were lost in the reverting by Team1up, did you mean to list NHRD as an USARS league? Skate Free or Die and New Hampshire Roller Derby are actually two separate entities, with Skate Free Or Die! Rollergirls of NH being a team governed under New Hampshire Roller Derby. I know that New Hampshire Roller Derby is a league currently chartered by USARS. The distinction seems to be a bit hairy. Does the team or the governing league get entered in as the club? Encyclopediaclown (talk) 18:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Encyclopediaclown Nah, I didn't touch that. I wanted to think that over a bit. Roller derby leagues tend to work with a different business model than most sports organizations. They are a league made up of local teams, which is part of a larger organization like WFTDA, OSDA or USARS. You might want to see how that's dealt with on other cities' pages. My primary reason for editing this page was to remove something which was clearly not true and replace it with something that was true. What you have in there MIGHT be factually correct but not in the most common format, or it might be fine. I couldn't say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimBRoy (talk • contribs) 21:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

After some further consideration, I decided to make NHRD's appearance on the list consistent with MVRG. Inasmuch as they appear to be single team leagues, USARS works a bit better, as it's the organization which the club plays against other members of. Roller Derby leagues as they exist at present are all pretty much single-city entities. In other words, for the purpose of a city's list of teams, the league can be considered a team, and USARS, WFTDA, OSDA or Renegades could be considered the league. TimBRoy (talk) 15:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

TimBRoy - The only issue I have with saying that USARS is a governing body of any roller derby league is that USARS (as they relate to roller derby, I'm not sure about other roller sports) is just how some leagues get their insurance. Interleague play is not usually determined by membership to USARS, but by availability of the leagues participating. As far as I know, NHRD is the only league in New England still insuring through USARS, and yet they have played WFTDA leagues - Maine and Providence to date - and will eventually play the Boston Massacre (because it is the only way they will be able to obtain one of the membership requirements for WFTDA). To what extent is an organization like USARS a governing body? They provide no standard rule set, do not rank member leagues, and do not sanction events in the way that WFTDA or OSDA does. The only reason they charter leagues and sanction facilities is because they have a contract with AIG - AIG will not pay out on claims that occur at an unsanctioned facility or with an unchartered league. USARS also charters/insures some OSDA leagues... Would it be more appropriate to say that USARS is not a governing body but a third-party method of insuring? Encyclopediaclown (talk) 14:20, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Encyclopediaclown - USARS is not an insurance company. That's a common misperception about the organization. From their web site: "USA Roller Sports (USARS) is recognized by the Federation Internationale de Roller Skating (FIRS) and United States Olympic Committee (USOC) as the National Governing Body for Competitive Roller Sports in the United States." Both leagues are listed as members of USARS as per the link I provided elsewhere on the chat page. USARS does sanction roller derby events, which they actually generally list on their web sites. In fact, they require a sanction for derby bouts for the event to be covered. Roller derby gets regular features in the magazine they produce for their members, and they seem to be in the starting stage of planning to hold tournaments for member leagues. Basically, unless they drop USARS membership, I'd file both leagues under USARS until they gain WFTDA, OSDA, or even Renegades membership. It's an organization of leagues that they are member leagues within. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimBRoy (talk • contribs) 06:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

At least the Green Mountain Derby Dames (Essex Jct./Colchester, Vermont) are members of USARS and located in New England. Pioneer Valley Roller Derby (Holyoke, MA) does not use USARS nor are they affiliated with WFTDA (ineligible due to having a men's team). I'm not certain about Central Mass Roller Derby's affiliation. Maine, Boston, Providence, and Connecticut are all affiliated with WFTDA and have dropped their USARS affiliation. USARS also tracks and archives scores as well as writes articles about bouts they sanction. Amy "Bitches Bruze" Moore (talk) 05:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

With all due respect, we don’t play by usars, we play by wftda rules and hence the wftda affiliation. If i could get the wiki page up without it being taken down it is stated in there as we play by their rules & working towards getting to be wftda qualified. Team1up (talk) 12:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

USARS does not have a rule set. ManchVegas is listed as a member of USARS, not as a member of WFTDA. Unless you can provide a reliable source that indicates ManchVegas is affiliated with WFTDA, please stop altering this information. Make your case as part of the discussion page instead of continuing to revert. Encyclopediaclown (talk) 15:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

@ Team1up:It really doesn't matter what rules a league plays by. If they are a member league of WFTDA, they would be listed on the WFTDA web site as a member league. The league is NOT a member of WFTDA per the WFTDA web site. More than 95% of the 400ish leagues around the world skate by WFTDA rules. Only 77 of them are currently WFTDA member leagues.

I have provided cites that establish that ManchVegas is a member of USARS and is not a member of WFTDA. That column is for affiliation, not for "What rules they skate by." If it were for the rules set, both leagues would be listed as WFTDA, would they not? In your writings here, you're pretty clearly displaying evidence of a conflict of interest, by the way. TimBRoy (talk) 21:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

This is incorrect, as NHRD is now a WFTDA Apprentice, Can we remove this whole section.. since its not needed anymore. WiiBlockHer (talk) 07:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Introduction

There seems to be an obsession about size in the introduction. It gets alot boring reading through it. Isn't the introduction suppose to give a person a thumbnail sketch of the city? Shouldn't the thinking be that if a person is going to only read one paragraph about about the city, that is what you would want them to know. I know Manchester has more going for it then being the biggest fish in the pond.
Dave 2346 (talk) 18:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the intro got bogged down with the fine points of people counting, so I moved the NECTA details into the Demographics section. Now there is room in the intro for more interesting overview info about Manchester, should someone feel inclined to take that on.--Ken Gallager (talk) 19:18, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. The intro is necessary to include all points... 115.117.146.153 (talk) 05:38, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, no. If you put all points in the introduction, it wouldn't be an introduction, would it? It would be the whole article.--Ken Gallager (talk) 14:06, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Manchester, Nashua... Tyngsborough?

NHRD practices at least 2/3 of the season and bouts at Manchester's JFK Memorial Coliseum (see citations on both New Hampshire Roller Derby and Nashua, NH pages). They are currently listed on the Nashua page but should also be listed in Manchester. Because I am affiliated with this league, and given the apparent history of this page, I do not feel comfortable making the addition (in compliance with Wikipedia's conflict-of-interest policies). Additional references can be provided as needed for this. Anguissette1979 (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Added it here. I left a comment on the Nashua page, wondering why it's listed there. --Ken Gallager (talk) 17:43, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Ken : With All Due Respect, to my knowledge NHRD practices at Roller Kingdom on the Nashua/Ma border for the year and has games "bouts" at JFK. Kinda like how MVRG practices at there own facility here in Manchester but has games "bouts" at the West Side Arena. So if I am correct they should be listed in both places. Maybe make a notation on that this is where they host Games and make Nashua there Home practice space for the rest of the year. But i won't add anything/tweak anything since the "conflict of interest" is also in my court. Just trying to make sure everything is correct. WiiBlockHer (talk) 07:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

My point is that Roller Kingdom is not in Nashua. It's in Tyngsborough, Massachusetts. If they practiced across the river in Hudson, they'd be listed in Hudson, not Nashua. A similar example is with the Rockingham County Courthouse. Several years ago, the state moved the courthouse out of Exeter onto undeveloped land in neighboring Brentwood. Guess where the county seat of Rockingham County is now? Not Exeter anymore, even though Exeter is clearly the more significant community.--Ken Gallager (talk) 13:32, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Merge discussion

OK. It's about time. I know that like 4 years ago, the ManchVegas article survived a barely noticed deletion discussion. Still, there does not seem to be anything much at the ManchVegas article that couldn't be said here, I don't think we're well served with two articles here. The term is certainly used often, but its just not worth keeping a seperate article about. Any ideas? --Jayron32 03:59, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I support merging. How about putting the "ManchVegas" info in the Culture section? (Removing duplicate info as needed, of course.) --Ken Gallager (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I also support merging. As Ken said, place "ManchVegas" into the cultural section... no reason for seperate article--Ericci8996 (talk) 02:18, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any need for a separate article. Go ahead and merge. Robofish (talk) 14:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Geography - ridiculous data

just a short while back, I chose to remove the climactic data presented. Given Manchester's location not too far from the Atlantic coast, and its low-lying location, the normal winter day-night (diurnal) temperature range should NOT be even close to 27 °F. Among NE stations, I have seen 20 °F for some areas away from an urban heat island, but rarely any larger: winter ranges here mostly tend to fall between 11-17 °F.
Apparently, I checked the list of New Hampshire stations listed here, and the closest one to the city centre of Manchester appears to be Massabesic Lake, which is clearly in a rural setting. As Wikipedians, we are supposed to depict an urban-influenced climate in an urban location. Thus I intend to change the station to Nashua. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 05:01, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Have you looked at a map for this? Part of Massabesic is within the city boundary of Manchester itself, the remainder being in the adjacent town of Auburn. Does it really make sense to choose a completely different city 20km+ away? That's all I'm going to say because I'm no climate expert. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 05:56, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

• yes, which reminds me that I completely neglected to provide the map link. It's just that the 27 F (15 C) diurnal range is ridiculous and reflects the relatively rural setting of the lake rather than the urbanised setting that we are aiming to depict. And 20 km+ isn't that unreasonable; some airports are located that distance away from their city centres, yet Wiki still oddly uses such articles. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 13:06, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

www.EverythingManchVegas.com

I think this is a valuable link for persons interested in the Manchester Area. It may be promotional in a way, but does that mean you can't give persons interested in ManchVegas aka Manchester, nh a valuable informative link about the area? If I were looking up Manchester, Nh or ManchVegas on wikipedia I'd be happy to find that link given.