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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by TexanOkie (talk | contribs) at 21:52, 27 June 2010 (→Why singling out specific protest ideologies?: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Reaction/Consequences

Why is there no reaction or consequences section in this article? Every G20 conference over the last decade has seen substantial, documented protests and demonstrations rallying against globalization. It seems this page should at least have some sort of documentation of this. In b4 wikizionist deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkjimi (talk • contribs) 02:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I second this. I just came here trying to figure out what the G20 was (because for some weird reason all the news articles about the protests say nothing about what G20 is) and I was kinda surprised to see no mention at all of any protests. In my opinion this article is not keeping with the unbiased standards of Wikipedia articles to not even mention that there have been numerous protests in the past. The protests are obviously important to a lot of people and should at least have some mention on the page. I certainly came here hoping to find out more information about who/what/why and found none!! All other pages about organizations that have been protested against have news about the protests on their pages.... Why is this one exempt from such news? Lab Dragon (talk) 12:25, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is no "unbiased standard of wikipedia". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.113.198 (talk) 20:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Map

There are some areas wrongly painted: Balearic Islands are in dark-blue but they belong to Spain, which is light-blue. Almost all the islands in the Aegean Sea belong to Greece, not Turkey, so they should be painted in light-blue. Cyprus is an EU state, so it should be painted in light blue because it is neither in the G20 nor does it belong to Turkey. The Islas Canarias belong to Spain. The Açores belong to Portugal. The Falklands belong to the UK, Nouvelle Caledonie belongs to France. Same goes for Martinique, Guadeloupe, the la Guyane Française etc etc. All these territories should be painted accordingly. 3 june 2007, 16:02 UTC

you are totally wrong, Aegean sea is not a land so it does not belogn to any country, nor Turkey, neither Greece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.231.175.211 (talk) 16:59, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They said "almost all the Islands' in the Aegean Sea" not the sea itself. 86.147.65.57 (talk) 10:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who picked the photo of Barack Obama with the cowboy hat on it, it looks absolutely ridiculous and out of character for him - a photo should be chosen that actually embodies his common appearance (sans hat) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.152.175.238 (talk) 07:55, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Missing Countries

These countries are the regional powers and I think this list is missing Spain and Egypt.

Not being bias

Calling certain people "fatcats" is a VALUE-JUDGEMENT, and hence is not allowed.

Claiming that said organization is ruining the third world without citations (let alone citations from unbiased sources) is unsubstantiated, and therefore personal opinion, and wikipedia does not allow that. (Madrone 18:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC))[reply]

NPOV: Influence Section

Removing massive amounts of biased and rants and trying to summarize its points in a "Criticism section" If ppeople add criticims please CITE YOUR SOURCES, as most criticisms tend to be PERSONAL OPINIONS or a soapbox. Wikipedia does not allow Original Research (saying what you think basically) (Madrone 06:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC))[reply]

G20 summits

Why not give details about each G20 summit. The one in Ottawa in 2001 was very eventful but does thsis belong on this page or should there be a separate page for each summit?--Fredmaack 08:59, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to do it. --Cat out 13:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Number of countries

Is something missing? I only see 19 nations. --Cat out 13:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • For some reason, both Argentina and Australia are listed as 1. on the list. SKC 02:38 (UTC)

"the finance ministers and central bank governors of the G7, 14 other key countries, and the European Union Presidency (if not a G7 member)" The number 14 should be 12. The G7 has 7 members plus 12 other key countries and the EU to make a total of 20 not 22.--Raprmiddleton (talk) 05:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Norway

It is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, but not within the EU. Has anybody got an explanation as to why its not on the list?

  • The most literal answer would be that it's not on the list because it's not in the G-20, in the same way that a list of All-Star sports players might only list those formally selected for the All-Star Game (disclaiming, of course, any implication that larger economies are "better"). Going a bit further, I would agree that it's "one of the wealthiest countries", just not one of the 19 largest economies. As of 2005, it's listed at #25: List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal). Kime1R 01:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To all nationalists from Norway: your country ranks as 40th in GDP PPP - that is less than the Czech Republic ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heyst (talk • contribs) 11:05, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Czech Republic : Population 10 million Norway : Population 4.8 million.

Compare GDP per capita instead.

85.165.91.67 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC).[reply]

The G20 aims to represent the most invfluencial economies in the world that represent a great share of the world's GDP - Norway is simply too small. It might have a high standard of living, but its < 5m people are relatively unimportant in the sense of global economic reform. The same applies for other nations with a high standard of living whos representation would be awkward, like the Vatican or Monaco. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.177.37.222 (talk) 21:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Spain

Spain is now part of G20! http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j9ZoaZ2MQ-5049sITpbDliMxPn_Q —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blindrain1 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not exactly. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/11/20081114-5.html says that Spain is representing EU... Rad vsovereign (talk) 21:24, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since when Spain is a "permanent guest?" Rockies77 (talk) 04:18, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia is mentioned as a member in the article text but is missing in the image. Please reconcile. --74.132.201.173 22:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone has fixed it. 203.129.139.252 (talk) 15:40, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Norway?

Norway is at the number 25th of largest economy's in the world... Thats more then several countries on the list... Why aren't Norway at the list?

25 Norway 295,672

26 Indonesia 281,264

28 South Africa 239,419 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.108.226.234 (talk) 18:11, 14 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Again, this page doesn't describe "the 20 largest economies in the world", it describes "the G20 industrial nations", a specific group of 19 countries + the EU. Norway isn't on the list because it's not in the G20. The real question, then, is why isn't Norway in the G20. Taking from the G20 website:

What are the criteria for G-20 membership?

In a forum such as the G-20, it is particularly important for the number of countries involved to be restricted and fixed to ensure the effectiveness and continuity of its activity. There are no formal criteria for G-20 membership and the composition of the group has remained unchanged since it was established. In view of the objectives of the G-20, it was considered important that countries and regions of systemic significance for the international financial system be included. Aspects such as geographical balance and population representation also played a major part.

As of the current wikipedia List of countries by GDP (nominal), Indonesia is a larger economy by both the IMF and World Bank measurements. It's also the 4th most populous nation in the world, and one of only two Australia/Oceania countries in the G20.
South Africa is the largest economy in Africa, and the only African nation in the G20.
In each of these cases, one may suspect that the "geographical balance" factor indeed "played a major part", and "population representation" may have also influenced the inclusion of Indonesia.
In contrast, Norway is about number 14 on the List_of_European_countries_by_GDP and 26 on the List_of_European_countries_by_population. Considering that the G20 has 4-6 other individual European countries (depending on how you count Russia and Turkey) and the EU in it, it would seem that Europe is fairly well represented in the G20.
Furthermore, considering that Switzerland has a larger economy than Norway, and is also not in the EU, it would seem that they would be higher up on the waiting list, if you will, than Norway.
Kime1R 01:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Membership of the G20 is determined by being a member of the G20, nothing more. The members are "systemically important industrialized and developing economies"[1]. All the members are large, but they aren't the 20 largest nations. More importantly, they aren't all industrial nations, in fact, they aren't even all nations. I suggest this page is misnamed. Yes, there is a different G20 that is specifically for developing nations, but that doesn't change the nature of this G20. Following the usual rules for disambiguation, I suggest this page be moved to G20 (Group of economies). Regards, Ben Aveling 10:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2010: Auckland, New Zealand

Why would New Zealand host the talks being as they aren't a member? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brob (talk • contribs) 02:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No consensus Parsecboy (talk) 14:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The proposed new name for this article is Group of Twenty Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors, to reflect the name of the group used on its official website at http://www.g20.org/. The only other obvious alternate, G-20, already exists as a redirect to a disambig. Thanks. 67.101.7.221 (talk) 03:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

Oppose. Like other members have said. The common name is G-20. On the India page, it's full name is the Republic of India, but the page itself is called India, and it just says in the introductory paragraph that it's official name is the Republic of India. We could just say in the introductory paragraph that the G20's official name is the Group of Of Twenty Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors. Deavenger (talk) 04:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO votes in opposition should clarify if they want to
It may be hard to make this call since the G-20 is meeting this weekend but is otherwise rarely in the news. Thanks. 68.167.252.47 (talk) 05:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Agree that there's a lot more to discuss, but we also need to think of those who do the legwork at WP:RM. A request has been listed there, and someone eventually needs to close it. My feeling is that this specific request could now be closed citing the snowball clause, and we should then have a more general discussion here as to what to do. Then, if either admin help is needed to do it or if it's controversial enough to want a formal process (or both), that's the time to go back to WP:RM. Andrewa (talk) 18:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, it's a more cumbersome name, but the fact is that this is an encyclopedia, and we should be accurate. If the official page has that name, that is the accurate one. Wikidea 13:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So, you're suggesting we ignore the official Wikipedia policy on this? You might find Wikipedia:official names helpful to clarify this. Andrewa (talk) 17:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is only my opinion, that if the official title on the website is as it is said, then we should go with that. Official policy will support both that and whatever prevalent usage is. If you really wanted to go with prevalent usage, then it wouldn't be "G20 major economies", but simply "G20", wouldn't it? But I'm really not too fussed. :) Wikidea 18:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... WP:NC states Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. The policy has been considerably watered down recently (this used to be the nutshell summary, now it's in the text and the summary is a lot vaguer), but not quite enough to support preferring the official title on the website to the commonly used term. Andrewa (talk) 02:35, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Leave it alone. This article was previously named "G20 Industrial nations", which it isn't since South Africa is not industrialized and the EU is not a nation. The G20 major economies is the correct and best terminology that should be used for this article. "major economies" describes these economies best - they are not all countries or industrialized but have a significant influence role or are of strategic importance in the world economy. Using G-20 directly conflicts with the G20 developing nations, which is also named G-20 officially. Just like the G20 developing nations is NOT the official name, but rather used to distinguish from other G20s that exist in a manner that is short, organized and representitive. Lakshmix (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Suggestion

Why not convert the list of countries into a table, showing GDP, Annual Exports and Annual Imports.LeadSongDog (talk) 20:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image File:G20 Melbourne meeting room.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --17:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

so Spain is or isn't a member?

The map shows Spain in light blue (being represented by he EU but not on its own), but its listed twice as a member. So is Spain a member of the G-20 or not (I have no idea)? Somebody should explain its situation in the article if its membership is "special". --Taraborn (talk) 14:21, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind, it is not [2]. I'll fix the reference. --Taraborn (talk) 14:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article is not about the meetings

This article is about the economies. Discussion of the meetings is at best peripheral if not entirely off topic. Discussion of plans to hold protests against future meetings is completely out of place. Using this article for that purpose can only be construed as a deliberate violation of WP:SOAP.LeadSongDog (talk) 04:35, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • While I would agree that this is not the page to post/discuss things about specific meetings, one could argue that this article CAN be about the meetings as a whole. Do in part to the fact that this is the page for organization that holds the meetings, and there is mention that they do hold the meetings on the page. Therefore news that is not meeting specific but pertains to the meetings as a whole, can and should be included on this page. Lab Dragon (talk) 12:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

unbalanaced

LeadSongDog, I don't understand why you are deleting any information about protests at a G20 meeting. If you are being balanced, then you should not only link to the official London website, but also, major counter-summit events. It is not okay to link to G20 propaganda (the UK treasury pamphlet, their website), and eliminate balancing information? Surely this balance just adds to the richness of the article, and doesn't take away from it? If people want to move the London summit / protest information to another page, that's fine, but then, please also remove or move the pro-G20 propaganda from the page such as the pamphlet, and london summit website.

--Jonnieo (talk) 11:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I replied to your similar question at my talk.LeadSongDog (talk) 17:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]


By linking to the G20 website, and their pamphlets, you are also promoting a viewpoint. So linking to both sides is mandated by NPV. Now, what would make more sense is for their to be a WP article about the Summit itself. But until an editor creates that page, there is no other place for it.

As a compromise, I can move both the balancing information to be under the London meeting section. Then, when someone creates an entry for the London meeting (currently a backlog), then both the official pamphlet and website and the balancing PV can be moved to this entry. Is that reasonable?

--Jonnieo (talk) 22:12, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, it's not me that linked to those things, though I did clean up the links a bit. What backlog?LeadSongDog (talk) 23:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To attempt to address this, I've created a London Summit page, using Trashyrambo's suggestion below. I have also removed much of the hyperbole around the information on the climate camp protest (not added by me btw). The links to the G20 positive propaganda have also been included. I would suggest that if people are happy with this, then the London section of this page can be deleted (since it is now in the London summit page). --Jonnieo (talk) 00:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

G20 London Summit

The next Summit date has been announced for April 2, 2009. This Summit probably merits its own page (eg 2009 G-20 London summit). I have sketched out a possible start on my Userpage, but needs more references / information. Trashyrambo (talk) 18:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand why this page is protected, however, the link to China in the list of "Members of the G-20" section links to a page on Chinese culture rather than to the People's Republic of China. This probably should be corrected by someone who has access.

These G-20 aren't the 20 "major" economies

If for "major" is intended "(a) greater in size, amount, number, or extent; (b) greater in importance or rank" (as just checked on my Webster's), then some of those 20 economies clearly don't belong to such a club.
A bunch of those countries seem to have been included on the basis of different criteria, obviously.
I would consequently propose to drop the word "major" from the title of this article: quite simple, as it surprisingly isn't applied to those countries inside the text, only in the title!
--Zack Holly Venturi (talk) 13:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

disagree
"Major" can mean importance, as you have said, or size or whatever. Saudi Arabia might not be in the 20 biggest economies but it IS important enough to be included for reasons of energy. Certainly geopolitic plays here. Just look at the members. All of them are either strategically located, have big economies, vast population (Indonesia, 240 mil & Mexico, 90 mil) and/or have vast natural resources (Saudi Arabia & South Africa). Rad vsovereign (talk) 16:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Contents

So one thing that's been bugging me for a long time about wikipedia is its erroneous way of constructing its table of contents. Many articles have contents that go:

1. 1.1 2.

If someone wrote a term paper and had a table of content looking like that he'd be getting an F. In order for there to be a subheading to "1." there has to be at least two subheadings, i.e. 1.1 and 1.2. But often you see tables like the one above (in this article on the G20 for example). I've been trying to find some wiki-guidelines for how to write these things, and thus try to lobby for a change, but to no avail. Can somebody direct me towards such guidelines, or provide an explanation as to why editors don't change this. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.255.169.253 (talk) 06:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

G-20 country rankings?

I believe it would be useful to the reader to be able to look at (sort?) the various G-20 economies by population, GDP, growth rates, or a few other common metrics for comparing countries? We can do this already for all (or most) nations in many Wikipedia articles; e.g. List of countries by population, List of countries and outlying territories by total area, List of countries by GDP (nominal), List of countries by GDP (PPP), List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita, or even List of countries by number of troops. It is quite difficult to quickly get a view as to how just the G-20 countries stack up in these common metrics.

I therfore think it would be useful to have a single table of the 20 G-20 countries with several (four or six??) columns of info on each country that might be most useful/relevant for a quick overview. We could insert such a table in this page (or possibly on another G-20-related page). We would, ostensibly. have the various columns be sortable as the reader prefers, and of course would wikilink to the more detailed articles of all countries listed above for anyone who wants more detail.

Two questions:

  • 1 Does anyone else think this a useful idea and something that would add to the readers' helpful and encyclopedic assessment of the G-20 countries?
  • 2 If so, what data columns do you think most useful as a starting point?

N2e (talk) 23:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

G20 now supersedes the G8.

CaribDigita (talk) 15:22, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Turkey and Russia

Although Turkey and Russia are located both Asia and Europe,These contries generally consider as a European state(because of econmoic,social,cultural and politics reasons,OECD ...) Also Turkey and Russia got place in European Economies Table( Turkey #6 and Russia #2 economy in Europe).Turkey and Russia are sociopolitically in Europe and should be European block."Europe is representing 6 countires+EU in G-20" it is Well-Known determination in whole world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.164.14.142 (talk) 19:10, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Stop That edit war(!) Australia or Others are not inside Council of Europe or EUROSPHERE.Turkey is a part of the "Western Europe" branch of the Western European and Others Group (WEOG) at the United Nations,Australia is in others branch**** . And Australia is not listed as in a EUROPEAN economy or market,also is not even in Western European Union,and do not gain memebership statuss for EU etc etc... for geographically issuses Turkey both in WA and SEE and sociapolitically and ecenomically in in Europe with Eruosphere so listed as a western asian market is a big mistake,As for Influence of Countries Turkey is Regional power in Caucasia , Balkan peninsula and in greater Mid-east.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_economy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_europe *(Turkey and Greece also considering Founder member)

so are u still continue ur insist on this subject , if so check out EU webside. and please do not change again without ur dones coming from official marketting.

and also check European eular diagram in ;) ----http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_organisations_in_Europe-----

European Cenratral Bank says "Europe representing with 6 countries + EU ,inside G-20 and it shows Europe's Economic power in the world". before editing please show ur reason before comparing Turkey with Australia . Dont we in edit war go discussion page and tell people ur info's before editing --Aegeanfighter (talk) 08:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, man. We are just talking about the best display for a synoptic chart. Do as you please with this as long as the result has some coherence and usefulness. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 16:35, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]


yes true but the best display for Turkey is European market and we can put a mark it and say ( also classified as a Asian contry but socioeconomically in europe it ll tell everythng we need--78.164.10.238 (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

should make mention that gdp might not be the only factor when ranking the nations by importance

there's a lot more to sizing up a country's economic power than just gdp, when the country is in the top 15 in that category. exports, energy, resource production, world influence (countries like Canada and Mexico would get an edge because of their influence over the keystone economy (USA)). also based on first quarter growth and estimates for the next couple years by the international monetary fund, the difference between countries like Russia, Canada and South Korea, Mexico is a lot larger. I also updated the information for brazil and mexico. using 2008 data for them is a bit biased since the world recession caused the 2009 data for the other countries using it to be lower.Grmike (talk) 01:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC)grmike[reply]

There are plausible reasons for modifying the navbox templates at the bottom of the page at G-20 major economies. An opportunity for discussion needs to be part of any process which precedes change. Three arguable improvements are:

A. Combining two of the current navboxes at the bottom of the page?

B. Deleting the current leaders navbox?

This is a poor subject for a navbox because leaders change irregularly over time. The functional utility of this navbox is not greater or better than one which only shows member nations.

C.Standardize/harmonize to "G20" without hyphen?

Only G-15 must have a hyphen, consistent with the group's official web site?

D. Perhaps decision-making may be helped by comparing an array of similar groups and templates?

What is the best next step for this article? for similar articles? --Tenmei (talk) 22:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why singling out specific protest ideologies?

Why are paleoconservatives and classical liberals specifically mentioned as protestors in the 2010 meetings? Given the violence and vandalism of the protests mentioned immediately following these ideologies' mentions, suggesting only these two right-wing ideologies were protesting seems to skew information, since all ideolgies are represented amongst the protestors. Plus the violent black bloc groups seem to be more anarchists than the classical liberal or paleoconservative philosophical bent

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