Talk:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami

Add Change to Earth's Rotation to Other Impacts

"The earthquake shortened the length of days by 6.8 microseconds." Reference: —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlphaBobRI (talk • contribs) 19:56, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Congrats

Congrats to all the editors. The article is featured now.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC) well done to all of the editors you have done this brilliantly

Power Released

Would someone please delete all those insanely wrong megaton figures in the article?! A big earthquake releases A LOT more energy than any atomic bomb ever exploded. The article is about three orders of magnitude wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.1.105.31 (talk) 16:45, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I dunno, it seems to be explained below. It of course released vastly more energy than any atomic bomb; it seems to be just the surface energy that was ~equivalent to Tsar Bomba. --Golbez (talk) 16:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

"This is equivalent to over 930 terawatt hours, 0.8 gigatons of TNT, or about as much energy as is used in the United States in 11 days." kate was here >>09<<

Two points;

• This struck me as not much, especially as it later says of the Tsunami wave, which was the equivalent of 5 megatons of TNT; "This is more than twice the total explosive energy used during all of World War II", and yet is a couple of orders of magnitude less than the the power of the actual earthquake (at 0.8gigatons of TNT, or 800,000 megatons). The U.S uses 400,000 times the energy released by all the explosives in WW2 every 11 days? Incredible if correct.

• By my own (quite possibly wrong) calcuations, according to the CIA world factbook, the US uses 3,656,000,000,000,000 Watt-hours of electricity a year, or 3,656 terrawatt hours a year. 930TW = 25.4% of that, which would be 93 days of electricity, not 11. Iorek85 01:03, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, the article states the energy released by the earthquake as 1.1*10^18 Joules. However, the USGS gives 1.1*10^17 Joules on its website (http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2004/eq_041226/neic_slav_e.html).

I don't think that the quake figures sound accurate. Ususally the power levels involved in acts of nature are quite beyond what we are used to like hurricanes containing the power equivalent of an h-bomb going off every few hours (pulling that figure from memory.) The quake figures just seem very small. --Gmuir 19:44, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Recalculated based on USGS data

Gmuir and lorek85 are Totally right. Figures here are way wrong. See Richter magnitude scale, which lists the Indian Ocean quake at 32 gigatons, not 0.8. Also, the Tsar Bomba is listed as richter 5.25 on its page, but on the richter page as 7.0, a difference of 150 times in energy. These discrepancies need to be fixed. Ok, found the TNT equivalent page.

Richter magnitude scale page table figures are clearly wrong too, and inconsistent. Every scale up is 32 times energy, so impossible for 9.0 to be only 5.6 times that of 8.0, and 8.0 to be 20 times that of 7.0.

Taken from Measuring the Size of an Earthquake, Natn Earthquake Info Ctr, USGS:

Because fault geometry and observer azimuth are a part of the computation, moment is a more consistent measure of earthquake size than is magnitude, and more importantly, moment does not have an intrinsic upper bound. These factors have led to the definition of a new magnitude scale MW, based on seismic moment, where

MW = 2/3 log10(MO) - 10.7 .

The two largest reported moments are 2.5 X 1030 dyn·cm (dyne·centimeters) for the 1960 Chile earthquake (MS 8.5; MW 9.6) and 7.5 X 1029 dyn·cm for the 1964 Alaska earthquake (MS 8.3; MW 9.2). MS approaches it maximum value at a moment between 1028 and 1029 dyn·cm. (MW=4.0 x 10 ^ 29 for Sumatra, see Harvard Moment Tensor Solution.

so what is energy?

Energy, E

The amount of energy radiated by an earthquake is a measure of the potential for damage to man-made structures. A magnitude based on energy radiated by an earthquake, Me, can now be defined,

Me = 2/3 log10E - 2.9.

For every increase in magnitude by 1 unit, the associated seismic energy increases by about 32 times.

Although Mw and Me are both magnitudes, they describe different physical properites of the earthquake. Mw, computed from low-frequency seismic data, is a measure of the area ruptured by an earthquake. Me, computed from high frequency seismic data, is a measure of seismic potential for damage. Consequently, Mw and Me often do not have the same numerical value. ---

and from USGS Fast Moment Tensor Solution top of page:

Because of the size (M 9.0) of this earthquake, point-source methods that use only the body-wave portion of the seismogram are inadequate for measuring the true magnitude.

So this just tells me the energy figure (E) given by Gmuir on his USGS link (1.1*10^17 J) is incorrect for "total energy release", but is correct for "surface rupture damage". Basically, from USGS again, [How much bigger is a 8.7 than a 5.8 quake?] Using the methods of 32 per 1.0 Richter step from that page, and the revised Indian Ocean Quake 9.3 richter figure, and using quote from an USGS explanation page Richter Scale:

"A magnitude just above 8 represents about as much energy as produced by 200 one megaton nuclear bombs."

So, a 9.3 like Indian Ocean Quake is R1.0 * R0.3 * 200 megatons TNT = 32 * (1.414*2) * 200 megatons TNT = 18.1 gigatons of TNT.

AND...200 Mt/50mt = 4 or R0.4 as 2^5 =32 so every R0.2 is an increase/decreases by a factor of 2. So Tsar Bomba's 50 mt = 7.6 Richter. The people calculating that bomb either used the wrong magnitude scale or only accounted for surface vibration was it was detonated 4000 m ground, or a combo of both.

Based on this and standardized TNT equivalencies (4.184**18 J per gigaton, from TNT equivalent page), gives 7.57**19 J release by this quake. Assuming Hiroshima was 17 kt, that gives 1,064,700 times the power of Hiroshima, and 362 times that of Tsar Bomba. This figure makes the earth truly ring like a bell, like the scientists said, which is why geoscientists were so stunned. Furthermore, Energy use in the United States wikipedia page claims that the US uses 105 exajoules a year of all types of energy including wasted energy, or 105**18 J. So the Sumatra quake released a total equivalent of (7.57**19/1.05**20) years = 0.721 years or 263 days at 2005 energy usage.

Furthermore, the energy release for the 1964 Alaskan quake is 7.5/4*18.1 gt = 33.93 gigatons and for Chilean quake is 25/4*18.1gt = 113 gigatons. Thus the Chilean quake, the largest known, in total released nearly 6 million times more energy than that of Hiroshima. It takes a lot of energy to shove thousands of square miles of kilometers deep of rock under each other, orders of magnitude less energy damage the surface, in what we "see".

71.117.93.160 11:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Just for reference, according to the article, 2.5 megatons of energy (surface blast) did this...(Meteor Crater). Naturally, shoving 30-70 km thick, thousands of miles long gigantic oceanic plates under each other takes far more energy.

71.117.93.160 (talk) 16:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

wording in title

I just made a minor change in the wording of the intro, removing "lethal" as an adjetive describing the tsunamis caused by the earthquake. I felt this was an awkward way to describe a tsunami and redundant with parts of the rest of the sentence. I believe the sentence reads much better now. Does anyone disagree?

Also, you are an admin reading this, you might want to update the main page template. -- Rmrfstar 02:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

What is wrong with the main page template? Pepsidrinka 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

He means that the word "lethal" should be removed there, too. But I think there should be an adjective there. "Lethal" or "devastating" are perhaps redundant, but we want to convey that these were extraordinary tsunami waves, certainly for the Indian Ocean. "unprecedented in modern times" might be something to slip in somewhere. "colossal" sounds a bit like a movie blurb, "massive" might be better. "overwhelming" is perhaps the best technical choice, as it derives from an Old English word for "turning upside down", and has meant "drowning" since the late Middle Ages. Anyone else like "overwhelming"?--Dhartung | Talk 02:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Finally Featured

I've been waiting for a long time to see this article featured. Anonymous_anonymous_Have a Nice Day 11:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Awkward wording

The intro says "the number of casualties were 186,983 dead and 42,883 missing, for a total of 229,866 affected". Surely many more people were affected by the earthquake? Is there a better way to say this? Zocky | picture popups 13:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The Word "Recent"

In my view, a date should be used instead of the word "recent", as whatever is described as "recent" will in time become other than recent; the article will then require editing.

The article, like every article in Wikipedia, will always require editing as new information and perspectives arise. As of 2006, the fact of the earthquake being recent is a notable characteristic of the event. Peter Grey 17:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Moment/Richter Magnitude?

Not being someone who knows about these things I am a little confused as to why the link for magnitude (of 9.0) in the second paragraph refers to the 'moment magnitude scale' page, while in the same sentance it refers to it as being measured on the 'richter magnitude scale'. It seems to me these two scales are different, and I wonder why different earthquake pages seem to refer to different magnitude scales (and seem to pick one or the other). Am i missing something or is this unclear. Thanks. Miscreant 11:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

See Richter scale#Problems with the Richter scale. The equations used to calculate Richter saturate out around 8.3-8.5, meaning that it gives similar estimates for massive earthquakes that are clearly of different sizes. Seismologists have since used seismic moment, but the general public had gotten used to the Richter numbers so someone came up with the moment magnitude scale, which is based on seismic moment numbers but overlaps with the Richter scale for moderate sized quakes and is accurate for the really big ones (not so much for the really small ones apparently). The Richter scale shouldn't really be used for an earthquake this size, but it sticks around because people still don't know what the moment magnitude scale is. So it's unclear, because it's unclear... - BT 16:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Lost / Damage to vessels

Any report of damage and lost to vessels in the Indian Ocean at as a result of the tsunami? All i've seen so far are casulties on the shores. The waters of that area of the Indian Ocean should be heavy in traffic. --Kvasir 05:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Tsunamis only become tall and dangerous as they move into progressively shallower waters on a continental shelf close to shore. In the open ocean they are long, low waves which are often too subtle to feel at all despite their high speed. Ships at sea would have been unaffected by the tsunami unless they were above the shallow part of a long, sloping seabed. Even ships in port at the U.S. naval base on Diego Garcia were unaffected, as that atoll rises abruptly from the ocean floor (indeed, the wave had to pass over a 16,000-foot [4,900 meter] deep canyon just before it reached the area) and does not have a shelf-like structure around it which could have driven the wave upward.

There was significant boat loss/damage, due to the fact that the tsunami arrived when many boats were near shore. Many fishing communities suffered large boat loss due to the fact that many of their fishing boats were still in or near harbors or the shoreline. However there was no reported damage to boats in the deep ocean, outside of shallow water.

Wm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kholak (talk • contribs) 16:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

All of the above regarding boat and vessel losses is correct. One way we know this is that in Banda Ache, two divers went out to do some recreational diving from the beaches there. They went down, and a few minutes later came up to find the tsunami had passed and done its damage on shore. CNN interviewed the couple, they will have the info on this in their archives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.203.38 (talk) 01:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Psychological Trauma?!

I don't see how traditions relate to being traumatic. There should be a better explanation. It doesn't make any sense at all. Please Someone explain. Znitrx 17:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it time to permanently semi-protect this article?

Looking at the article's edit history this month, it is noticeable that there have been 53 edits in the first 21 days this month by non logged-in editors, and at most 5 of them have not been reverted as vandalism. I wonder if it is time for us to semi-protect the article on a permanent basis, as at this time it seems unlikely that much further relevant information will be added to it, and it does not seem unreasonable to expect someone to wait the four days it takes before a new account is allowed to edit a SP'd article in order to add rare legitimate updates. As it is the article seems to be becoming a vandal magnet, which is a great pity as it's one of the standout articles on Wikipedia in my opinion. -- Arwel (talk) 23:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Should it be Indian Ocean tsunami instead of earthquake?

Lot of the North American media seemed to use the term of tsunami rather then earthquake. I was wondering if it should be better to put the term tsunami instead of earthquake as it was the tidal wave that caused all the destruction (although maybe some islands it was earthquake damage, but generally the tsunami did most of the death and destruction) So I suggest to Move it to 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami--JForget 00:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The tsunami did not happen without the earthquake, though. And in the area hardest hit - Banda Aceh - you would be hard-pressed to separate the earthquake damage from the tsunami damage. --Golbez 18:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The redirects from 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami and 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami should be enough. In order to avoid confusion in the category system, there may be a case for putting the tsunami redirects in Category:Tsunami, rather than the earthquake pages, but that then prevents people clicking at the bottom of the page from here to get to other tsunamis. Anyway, the category should be plural (Category:Tsunamis), not singular. I'll get that changed over at CFD. Carcharoth 21:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't agree with JForget that the tsunami (tidal wave is a misnomer thaa pretty much stopped getting used after this disaster) caused all the destruction - I think there was a lot of damage on Bandah Aceh from the earthquake - as well as the ensuing tsunami. BartBart (talk) 14:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Photo of the first wave just after breaking

Hi All

I'm a newbie to wikipedia contributions so if my question is inappropriate, please excuse me.

This link shows a picture (taken at Krabi Beach, Thailand) of the first peak of the Asian tsunami just after breaking http://www.surf.co.nz/Gallery/Photo/photo.asp?categoryKey=226&imageKey=1406

I think this photo is peerless, and I want it to be available to the community in some way.

It was posted by an anonymous contributor shortly after the event. At my request the site on which it was posted (surf.co.nz) sent a message to the contributor asking them to contact me in order that I obtain permission for its use, but they never did. Consequently it cannot be made available on wiki commons.

Is it possible that a link to this photo be included in the external links?

Thanks, Gareth

is this orignal work??

i have been studying tsunamis for school and i normally go to wiki for info so i read this article, but then i found another site (http://www.important.ca/tsunami_asia_earthquake.html) which is has parts that are word for word to the wiki artcle.

does this mean it was the same author or was whoever wrote this just cutting and pasting parts into this article?

Your comment seems to say that you think we copied them; they copied us. They clearly state at the bottom that the source of their 'article' is Wikipedia. So there's no problem here. --Golbez 10:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

A number of websites do this - taking information from Wikipedia, as well. So there's nothing wrong with this. Insanephantom 14:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Ranking

This article is rife with contradictions. Many places rank it as the 2nd most powerful earthquake ever, while many others say it was only the "4th most powerful since 1900". Which, if either, is correct?

The first one. It was measured at 9.3 which would make it the second largest earthquake ever measured by a seismograph. Also the pie chart states that the alaska qauke was a magnitude of 9.4. Nowhere in any article has the earthquake been given this high a rating. In fact on the article list of earthquakes it states the moment magnitude as 9.2 and I've seen many places stating the magnitude as 9.2 on the richter scale.

I agee with comment above about contradictions. Look at the following paragraph "Of all the seismic moment released by earthquakes in the 100 years from 1906 through 2005, roughly one-eighth was due to the Sumatra-Andaman event. This quake, together with the Good Friday Earthquake (Alaska, 1964) and the Great Chilean Earthquake (1960), account for almost half of the total moment. The much smaller but still catastrophic 1906 San Francisco earthquake is included in the diagram at right for perspective. Mw denotes the magnitude of an earthquake on the moment magnitude scale." The following paragraph goes on to contradict this, and the accompanying piechart contradicts it too. Or is this an artefact of the difference between the Richter scale and the Moment scale? If so it would be useful to clarify this in the text. --DMWard 20:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems that contradictions are rife throughout articles about major earthquakes. Somebody, or lots of bodies will have to go through and fix things up; maybe it's time for me to start contributing.121.44.87.3 09:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Related page up for AfD

Could any regular editors of this article please comment on Library_damage_resulting_from_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Library_damage_resulting_from_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake. Thanks. Carcharoth 05:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

"Retreat and rise cycle" section of article very inaccurate

Hello,

I work for a tsunami database that collects pictures, videos, and eye-witness reports relating to the 2004 tsunami. While reading this article the section titled "Retreat and rise cycle" came to my attention. I noticed that it claims the following characteristics and behaviors of the tsunami occurred in all locations across the Indian Ocean:

"The tsunami was a succession of several waves, occurring in retreat and rise cycles with a period of over 30 minutes between each peak. The third wave was the most powerful and reached highest, occurring about an hour and a half after the first wave. Smaller tsunamis continued to occur for the rest of the day."

Sentence One

1. "The tsunami was a succession of several waves,"

1. This fact is partially true, given that in nearly all locations the tsunami struck, there were not one but rather several waves. However there is at least one beach in Malaysia were I know, as a fact, that only one noticeable wave arrived. This may or may not need changing, due to the fact that though this information is not universal, it is accurate for the vast majority of locales.

2. "occurring in retreat and rise cycles"

2. This is semi-true, given that for the very first wave, I have not heard any definitive evidence that a recession of water did not precede it. However, it is a fact that in several locales some waves after the first came without a recession of water. I recommend adding to this statement that this was the case in only some places, not all.

3. "with a period of over 30 minutes between each peak."

3. This is untrue. In nearly all locations the tsunami did not strictly or even loosely follow this pattern. There is one island in Thailand, for example, where a home video documents tsunami waves arriving, retreating, and then arriving again in intervals of one to two minutes, not 30 to 40 minutes. It is also a fact that several locations experienced wave intervals longer than 30 to 40 minutes, and that some locales did not experience any repeating intervals at all, rather waves arrived spontaneously throughout the day. My personal view is that this information should be erased or at least altered to fit the general gist of what occurred on December 26th.

Sentence Two

4. "The third wave was the most powerful and reached the highest,"

4. This is very inaccurate. In most locales, the third wave was not nearly the highest. In many locations, including Banda Aceh, Indonesia the second wave or wave train was by far the higher, and in Khao Lak, Thailand the first wave was the highest and most powerful by far. It should be noted that in some places the third wave was the highest; however it is unfair to the article to state that this was the case on all beaches. This information should also be erased or changed to accommodate information from most locations.

5. "occurring about an hour and a half after the first wave."

5. See paragraphs 3 and 4 to see why this information is disproved.

Sentence Three

6. "Smaller tsunamis continued to occur for the rest of the week 6. I have found no information that strongly disproves this sentence, so it may be left unaltered.

Wm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kholak (talk • contribs) 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Broken Image

What's the deal with the broken image? That should not be happening on a featured article. It should either be replaced or deleted.ArteWorks Business Class 20:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Fraction of Length of Day

2.68 microseconds is not about 1 billionth of the length of a day. A day is approximately 24 hours = 86400 seconds = 86.4 billion microseconds, so a billionth of that would be approximately 86.4 microseconds. 2.68 microseconds is about 1.5 orders of magnitude smaller and is much closer to 1/32 billionths of a day, since 1/32 billionths of 86.4 billion microseconds is 86.4/32 microseconds = 2.7 microseconds.

So-called moment magnitude

First sentence in Earthquate characteristics:

The earthquake was initially reported as moment magnitude, Mw 9.0 (note that this is not the so-called Richter scale or local magnitude scale, Ml, which is known to saturate at higher magnitudes.)

Weasel worded. - "so-called" Can someone with knowledge of the topic reword it?

Secondly, the magnitude is measured as both 9.3 in both Moment Magnitude and Richer Scale. Could someone verify which it? JameiLei 21:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

It shouldn't be measured as anything in the Richter Scale, since that starts to fail to produce a proper figure at high magnitudes. Fixed. --Golbez 23:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

out of curiosity

What time was it in California when the Boxing Day Tsunami started? I'm curious about that b/c I was on vacation at the time in and near Disneyland, and I also sailed on the Dec. 26, 2004 sailing of teh "Vision of the Seas" (which was doing Mexican Riviera cruises from LA). 68.36.214.143 05:54, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

It might've been 6 pm or thereabouts, let's check a clock somewhere. — Rickyrab | Talk 17:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Also out of curiosity, trying to keep political bias out of the article, but the section referring to "Human Component in magnitude in damage", I can see how more obstacles can break some force of the waves, but I hardly think that in relation to the size of this tsunami, neither reef or mangrove would have had much effect in preventing the damage it did. The way the section reads currently, it sounds like a political platform, rather than an informational article. Just my thoughts on the matter. I dont have a better solution to improving it. J. Kubicki Jr. 16:33, 5 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joelkubickijr (talk • contribs)

I agree with the above comment. I don´t see how the following lines (or the picture of the letter) have any importance other than political to the subject. If this is to say that someone made an effort to help the people affected by the disaster then you may start to put the names of every people that was there and helped, but just marking out something that the US president does it is not significant, to keep it neutral (not US based) it will be better to either remove the line and the picture or to mention what other Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc.. made to contribute and help in other countries.

to be removed...?

On February 9, 2005, President Bush asked Congress to increase the U.S. commitment to a total of $950 million. Officials estimated that billions of dollars would be needed. Bush also asked his father, former President George H. W. Bush, and former President Bill Clinton to lead a U.S. effort to provide private aid to the tsunami victims

--Heosphoros (talk) 20:55, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Affected countries

I checked the list of affected countries on the table at the top of the page. Surely, more countries were affected. You're missing out on Myanmar and Somalia - these were hit by the tsunami. 202.95.200.12 07:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Boxing Day

It says "it is called the Boxing Day Tsunami in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, because it took place on Boxing Day." But Boxing day cannot fall on a Sunday, which the Tsunami did may I suggest "it is called the Boxing Day Tsunami in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, because it took place on Sunday 26^th November, however boxing day was on Monday 27^th." or is that a bit too wordy, what do people recommend? Sam 20-09-2007 86.149.79.112 17:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe not legally, but in common practice Boxing Day = December 26 regardless of the day of the week. -- CrazyC83 (talk) 17:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Boxing Day in Australia is always the 26th December.BartBart (talk) 14:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Except in South Australia where it is officially called Proclamation Day D-Ozols (talk) 10:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Stating That Boxing Day can’t fall on a Sunday is akin to stating that Christmas can’t fall on a Sunday. In fact both holidays can fall on any day of the week. If a society opts to observe a holiday on a different day in order to take advantage of a day off from work, then this doesn’t mean the holiday didn’t fall on a Sunday – it means it fell on a Sunday and people opted to observe it at a different time.

"great" Sumatran earthquake

ONNA BOYD IN 2008 BY A BUS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.109.10.90 (talk) 19:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi - great article. A tiny quibble: I just wanted to note that in the very first sentence it says "known by the scientific community as the Sumatra-Andaman earthquake". In truth, it is virtually *always* referred to as the "great Sumatran earthquake" or "great Sumatra-Andaman earthquake". If you want citations, merely look at the citation you've already provided - there it is. Every paper I've looked at in the literature that mentions it, has "great". I believe (but I don't have a reference for this) that all earthquakes with Mw > 9 are called "great" deliberately. I'd like to add "great" into the article for the sake of accuracy, but understand that this article has a lot of people watching over it and the likelihood of anon edits getting reverted. So how about consensus? Who objects to making the change? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.98.21 (talk) 14:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

No-one seems to oppose the change, so I'm making it. Sorry, forgot to add tag Foraminifera 10:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Casualty causes

I noticed there is no information on how the casualties occurred... i.e. drowning during the initial flood, being crushed by debris, succumbing while in the open sea, disease after the tsunami, starvation, etc. Have any studies been done to try to analyze the death toll in better detail? -Rolypolyman (talk) 22:33, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

7th or 9th Deadliest Natural Disaster

Towards the end of the first paragraph it states "This was the ninth-deadliest natural disaster in modern history"; but the link that it provides to "List of natural disasters by death toll" has it placed as the 7th most deadly. I believe that this article needs to be revised.

Dljackson (talk) 14:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Table and Death total

• #Damage_and_casualties's table say 230,000 deaths (estimation)
• #Event_in_historical_context's table say 283,000 deaths (estimation)

Who is right ? 220.135.4.212 (talk) 15:12, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

News coverage of 2004 tsunami

I am writing to inquire about the possible inclusion of the news coverage of the 2004 tsunami.

On December 26, 2004, the date of the tsunami, the only coverage of the tsunami in the U.S. was on The Drudge Report web site. It wasn't until four days later, on December 30, that the national news such as ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, etc. reported on the incident.

We know now it was one of the most devastating natural disasters in reoorded history, but during those four days, the major news outlets treated it as no more than some sort of storm somewhere else in the world.

-- Earthquake warning systems --

I suggest the following be added after the first paragraph under "Signs and warnings" which discusses warning systems: "Smith Dharmasaroja, a Thia meteriologist, predicted an earthquake and tsunami and advocated warning systems, but was not taken seriously." This should link to the Wikipedia article (stub) on Smith Dharmasaroja. When considering disasters, failures in mitigation are relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.152.75 (talk) 10:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Second or third deadliest?

The infobox states "2nd deadliest earthquake of all time", but the table in the "Event in historical context" section lists it third. 217.33.74.203 (talk) 12:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Error in table?

Something doesn't add up in the table in the section 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake#Damage and casualties. The number of confirmed casualties in Sri Lanka is higher than the estimated number. This is technically impossible, since the estimate contains both confirmed casualties and the presumed casualties. If the confirmed number of casualties is X, the estimate can never be lower than X. Aecis·(away) ^talk 19:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Fatality count

Is there an agreed-upon number of fatalities? And an agreed-upon margin of error? Wikipedia article estimates are between "greater than 225000" and "about 350000", though several hover in the 230000-235000 region. Dugong.is.good.tucker (talk) 16:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Fatality count by Nationality

Beyond the quoted Swedish highest death toll,there's no other computing of foreigner tourists fatalities by Nationality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.60.61.126 (talk) 14:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

i just wanted to add that in the “damage and casualties” section, it says that “The European nation hardest hit may have been Sweden” , while at the end of the “other effects” section we read that “The hardest hit country outside Asia, 543 Swedish tourists, mainly in Thailand, died.” I may safely say that any european country is “outside asia”, so you may either want to state that the hardest hit European country was sweden or that the hardest hit country outside asia may have been Sweden, either way one of the two sentences has to be corrected to reflect the other imo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.66.170 (talk) 20:15, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Link updates requested

{{editsemiprotected}}

Please change the following "before" entry to the "after" entry. The "before" links for "cgs" are being redirected.

BEFORE:

• The December 26, 2004, Sumatra Earthquake and Indian Ocean Tsunami: Field Perspectives on the Impacts to the Peoples, Cultures, Politics, and Economies of One of the World's Most Vibrant Regions, Speaker: Tom Casadevall, September 26, 2006. Sponsored by Center for Global Studiesand Center for Advanced Study, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.

AFTER:

• The December 26, 2004, Sumatra Earthquake and Indian Ocean Tsunami: Field Perspectives on the Impacts to the Peoples, Cultures, Politics, and Economies of One of the World's Most Vibrant Regions, Speaker: Tom Casadevall, September 26, 2006. Sponsored by The Center for Global Studies and Center for Advanced Study, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Thanks much! Tyden Grommet (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Doing it now; thanks! --Golbez (talk) 21:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Countries/regions affected

Should we list Burma as a country affected in the box at the top of this article? One two three... 21:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} In the table of deaths by country, the total at the bottom of the 'Confirmed Deaths' column should be 184,167, not 184,168. TimKasoar (talk) 16:24, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

 Done. Thank you for informing this  Ilyushka88  talk  17:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Article name

I have to believe that this has been discussed before, perhaps numerous times, but I've never been here before today, and what I can't figure out is why the title of the article features the word "earthquake" and not "tsunami". Yes, the former caused the latter, but the latter is what made the story. Just my 2¢. Unschool 18:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

That's true but the earthquake - (one of the largest in recorded history) was the root cause of the tsunami and educationally - produced a lesson that no one should ever forget again, especially in terms of having a warning, which is why the name is apt...Modernist (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

My general argument has been, it was the flooding of New Orleans that caused all the deaths and damage there, but we still name the article Hurricane Katrina. It was the firestorm that ultimately destroyed much of San Francisco, but we still name the article 1906 San Francisco Earthquake. The tsunami did not exist without the earthquake. Furthermore, the earthquake itself probably killed thousands and thousands of people in Aceh. --Golbez (talk) 18:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Golbez is quite correct. However, it really has nothing to do with how we title articles on Wikipedia, which is determined by common useage in English prose. The articles on Hurricane Katrina and the 1906 San Francisco earthquake are so titled because that is how people customarily refer to those events. When talking about those events as a whole, hardly anyone refers to the 2005 New Orleans flood or 1906 San Francisco firestorm. And, there is a separate article at 2005 levee failures in Greater New Orleans, that is a redirect from 2005 New Orleans flood. That is the difference with the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake/2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Skinsmoke (talk) 19:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Fix broken link: [47] "Girl, 10, used grography lesson to save lives".

{{editsemiprotected}} The link given doesn't work, and redirects to the main page. It's currently footnote 47, but that cound change. The working link is http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1480192/Girl-10-used-geography-lesson-to-save-lives.html

 Done Thank you for finding this. - 2/0 (cont.) 06:03, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Remove semi-protection?

Currently, only autoconfirmed editors editors have write access to this article. Do the regulars here think that the problematic edits which led to protection last year are likely to resume if semi-protection is removed? - 2/0 (cont.) 06:11, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Done. Please request at WP:RFPP if vandalism from non-autoconfirmed users resumes. - 2/0 (cont.) 04:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, that was charming - re-enabled semi-protection. Maybe next year (or sooner if anyone would like to try it again). - 2/0 (cont.) 19:46, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Animals that sensed it coming

Is it confirmed that many animals started rushing uphill about half an hour before the tsunami struck? 81.129.150.171 (talk) 10:20, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Wrong link to Oblate, should be Oblate_spheroid

An oblate is the try round flat thing Catholics eat in the Mass, not an oblate spheroid. Please correct this link. I was not able to do this myself. Nalpdii (talk) 09:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting that, fixed! Mikenorton (talk) 10:28, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

can't edit, help fix

The Sumatra-Andaman earthquake was the largest earthquake since 1964, and the second largest since the Kamchatka earthquake of October 16, 1737.

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Totally a lie. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes#Largest_earthquakes_by_magnitude. There is no edit option for me. Please fix the lies. Thanx. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.163.190 (talk) 14:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Indonesian Tsunami

{{editsemiprotected}} shouldn't it be called 2004 Indonesian tsunami or earthquake to indicate that this happened just off the coats of Indonesia rather than a mislading "indian ocean" which stretches all the way from Antartica to south africa to YemenJigglyfidders (talk) 15:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

First of all, what you're asking for is not an edit, it's a move, which is much larger. Second of all, while the earthquake was indeed off the coast of Sumatra, its effects were certainly widespread, affecting indeed all the way to South Africa. Had there been no tsunami, I would wager it would be called the 2004 Sumatra earthquake, or 2004 Indonesia earthquake. But because of the wide scope of the damage, it is this. I also note that on Wikipedia, we do not usually invent names; we use names already in use by others. And "Indian Ocean Earthquake" is used far, far more in media and culture than "Indonesian Earthquake." --Golbez (talk) 15:13, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Biggest earthquakes since 1900

Section should be updated to reflect recent earthquake in Haiti. 173.69.187.114 (talk) 04:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

incorrect figure

{{editsemiprotected}} This more recent figure shows a death toll in indonesia of 220,000 making a total of 280,00 deaths. thus making it the 3rd deadliest earthquake. Could someone correct these figures please? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4204385.stm Iwanttoeditthissh (talk) 07:43, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: Welcome. The USGS provides a total of 227,898 and explains "In January 2005, the death toll was 286,000. In April 2005, Indonesia reduced its estimate for the number missing by over 50,000". Your source is from January 25, 2005. Celestra (talk) 14:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Maximum wave height

I've just changed the maximum wave height quoted in the lede back to 30m to be consistent with the main tsunami characteristics section and supported it with the same source. 30m certainly seems extreme but I know that the highest recorded run-up near Banda Aceh was 50.6m, which is just mind-boggling (I note that we have nothing on run-ups in the article at all). I'm going to see if I can find a better ref than the one we have now, as the work of those scientists should have made it into the literature by now. Mikenorton (talk) 19:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, the wave height study is here [1], with the actual recorded data here [2], note that they distinguish between run-ups (i.e. when the wave reached an obstacle such as a hill) versus evidence of watermarks on trees near the coast, indicating the initial wave height. The highest waves were recorded on the west coast of Banda Aceh and cluster at about 30 m. This study is not in a peer-reviewed journal, so the original ref is probably fine. Mikenorton (talk) 20:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Change the ranking

On the list of natural disasters it is now ranked 6th as the 2010 Haitian earthquake preceeded it. Please change the data on the page, as it still shows the now outdated value, 5th. --89.142.192.71 (talk) 20:04, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

In fact the 2010 Haiti earthquake article uses the figures 92,000-230,000, so there is really no difference between the two. People keep changing the death tolls in the List of earthquakes#Deadliest earthquakes on record (and other lists) to 250,000 for the Haiti quake, but there does not seem to be a reliable source for this. The problem is that all death tolls are estimates, and they may be revised again in the future. We really need to get agreement on the figures in all the various list articles and individual earthquake articles - not an easy task I'm afraid. Mikenorton (talk) 21:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I see, the value even changed as I just reloaded the page. As there is no actual precise way to really measure the casualties for each one, I guess leaving it as it is is okay. It might be as that article is free to be edited by anyone (even I could :D). --89.142.192.71 (talk) 04:23, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Citation style

One way to improve this article is to use a consistent citation style. We should use {{cite web}}, {{cite news}}, and the like. Is there an easier and quicker way to do this? Can someone please do this with AWB or something else? Thanks. serioushat 10:07, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

move to add tsunami in title

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:31, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

---

2004 Indian Ocean earthquake → 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami — Move article from 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake to 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami since tsunami had far more impact than earthquake itself. We will keep earthquake but add tsunami in title which is very much essential. This was moved earlier once, see here. Noted trip3 (talk) 07:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

• Support or just use tsunami. The naming of this article is so obtuse. The previous move discussions said that the tsunami was not the most important part of the event. It's like the assassination of the archduke in Serbia were the title of the WWI article. 76.66.195.196 (talk) 12:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose The tsunami was an instantaneous result of the earthquake and doesn't exist independently of it. After earthquakes there are deaths relating to things other than shaking aprt from tsunamis, such as fires, landslides, dam failures and liquefaction, but our articles are still named after the earthquakes. 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami redirects here already, as does 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami, so I don't see the need. Mikenorton (talk) 14:19, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
• Support The events are more widely remembered, and referred, to as the Indian Ocean tsunami, not the Indian Ocean earthquake. A quick Google search shows 371,000 hits for the former, against just 55,500 for the latter. I understand Mikenorton's view, but Wikipedia titles articles by what is the most common useage in English prose, not by what is technically correct. The current proposal seems like a suitable compromise, or alternatively go for 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, which is what we should probably opt for if we follow Wikipedia's naming conventions correctly. Skinsmoke (talk) 19:19, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose; my general argument has been, it was the flooding of New Orleans that caused all the deaths and damage there, but we still name the article Hurricane Katrina. It was the firestorm that ultimately destroyed much of San Francisco, but we still name the article 1906 San Francisco Earthquake. The tsunami did not exist without the earthquake. As for the suggestion that 'earthquake' be removed, that's right out, as the earthquake itself killed thousands and thousands of people in Aceh. Removing 'earthquake' would be simply incorrect in that regard. Basically, if you want an article on the tsunami, you should split it. It's accurate to have the earthquake and tsunami in an article on the earthquake; it seems inaccurate to devote a large portion of an article on a tsunami to an earthquake. Does that make sense? As for the WW1 argument, that's really not worth responding to. We have an article on the assassination; we have an article on the war. Your argument is more akin to asking for a split than a rename. --Golbez (talk) 20:12, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
• Comment None of which is particularly relevant to how we name articles on Wikipedia. That is determined by common useage in English prose. Although a simple Google search is not the best way of determining titles, it can give an indication of the relative useage. A search for Indian Ocean tsunami gives 371,000 hits; one for Indian Ocean earthquake 55,500 hits. In the popular imagination, it is the tsunami that is foremost, not the earthquake that caused it, perhaps because the devastating effects of the tsunami were felt over a much wider area than the earthquake was felt; perhaps because it was the tsunami that killed so many westerners, rather than the earthquake (yes I know that isn't how it should be). The proposal obviates the need to split the article by including both in the title. Incidentally, Golbez asks It's accurate to have the earthquake and tsunami in an article on the earthquake; it seems inaccurate to devote a large portion of an article on a tsunami to an earthquake. Does that make sense? The answer is no, it doesn't: it makes just as much sense to include the cause in an article about a tsunami, as it does to include the effect in an article about an earthquake. Skinsmoke (talk) 03:59, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
  • The earthquake caused the tsunami; it makes perfect sense to go into detail about the tsunami in the earthquake article. The tsunami did not cause the earthquake; it seems odd to me to go into detail on the earthquake in an article on the tsunami. A possible example: The article on Hurricane Katrina goes into the flooding caused by the storm damaging the levees, but the article on the flooding caused by the levees being damaged does not really deal with the storm. A caused B, and A's article should deal with B, but B usually doesn't deal with A. (Note that this doesn't apply when the originating incident isn't otherwise noteworthy. A small storm that causes a landslide that kills 500 people would be rightly dealt with in an article on the landslide, rather than "2010 landslide-causing storm", since the storm was virtually incidental. I think many thousands of dead people in Aceh would disagree that the earthquake was merely incidental. Am I being pedantic? Quite possibly, I admit it. :P)
  • As for Google, I note that it has more results for "Boxing Day earthquake" than "Boxing Day tsunami", so there's clearly not a total agreement as for "tsunami" being in greater usage than "earthquake". --Golbez (talk) 04:26, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

• Support The existing title is ambiguous as there were multiple earthquakes in the Indian Ocean in 2004. There was only one earthquake with tsunami in the Indian Ocean at the time. The tsunami itself was the effect that contributed to across the whole Indian Ocean, whereas the earthquake was local. If you are looking to be geographically accurate it would be Indonesian. or even Aceh earthquake and Indian Ocean tsunami, however, the proposed renaming is sufficiently accurately descriptively to garner support. billinghurst sDrewth 12:21, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Can you name any other earthquakes in 2004 in the Indian Ocean area? I tried to find some, but all I could find was this one - there is no likelihood of ambiguity in my opinion. Mikenorton (talk) 21:46, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Not mentioning the tsunami in the title is perverse. The tsunami is what people remember of this event, not the earthquake. In plain Google, "tsunami" outnumbers "earthquake" 4:1 (searching for 2004 "Indian Ocean earthquake/tsunami"[3][4]). In Google Books the ratio is 7:1, in Google News 8:1, and in Google Scholar 7:1. WP:COMMONNAME means we absolutely have to have "tsunami" in the title. The arguments of Golbez and Mikenorton are mere pedantry, to be frank. Fences&Windows 19:54, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Consensus for move not obvious

This discussion seems to have been brought to a sudden end, without any overwhelming consensus. Mikenorton (talk) 22:57, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I can live with the move by the way...Modernist (talk) 23:31, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I also wonder who is going to move all the other articles. I count at least ten articles with "Indian Ocean earthquake" in their title; for consistency, these must also be moved. --Golbez (talk) 02:22, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

No one? Because that's pretty sloppy. --Golbez (talk) 13:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Really? We're just going to move this and depart without caring about the integrity of the rest of the article names? --Golbez (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The discussion was closed per the rules of WP:RM which say discussions usually are closed within 7 days - there were 9 days for the disscussion.Jason Rees (talk) 02:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the 'clear consensus' though. Mikenorton (talk) 10:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Length of Earthquake rupture

The article currently uses a figure of 1600 km as the rupture length, but I can't find where that number comes from. All the sources that I've looked at give 1200 or 1300 km, with that latter being the most common. Does anyone know if there is a source for the higher number? If no-one comes forward with a source, I'll make the change to 1300 km. Mikenorton (talk) 18:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I have seen the rupture length. I believe the figure comes from an episode of Seconds from Disaster in which geologists prove the length of the rupture to be 1600km. I can't link directly to the episode but look out for it on TV and it does say the length is 1600km. Wiki235 (talk) 20:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Earthquake Magnitude

People have asked for proof of this quake reaching 9.3. If you look at reference 9 I believe there's you're proof. Wiki235 (talk) 21:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)