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And take these a same grain of salt. I hope they don't seem rude. I simply don't understand some stuff.
I know where London is, and it would help to see the train line in reference to London in the first map.
The direction to London is marked on all the maps. The "close up map" of the route would be significantly bigger if I actually showed the line, because of the angle it ran at. On the 1872 map there is no line to London; it hadn't yet been built. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You just don't know how much it makes me argh! when people suggest I cut information after I write an article, although I do admit I tend to add kitchen sinks back to 1829. Somehow that morphs into my being super protective of the article text. At any rate, why is it important to know the medieval history of Brill?
I tried to keep it to a minimum; I was trying to convey to readers who aren't familiar with the area that this was an important enough town to warrant its own station, but at the same time a backwards backwater that didn't actually generate enough passenger traffic to make the station viable. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Plantagenet Campbell Temple-Nugent-Brydges-Chandos-Grenville, the only son of Richard Plantagenet Temple-Nugent-Brydges-Chandos-Grenville, 2nd Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, That's hilarious. Did you mean to make me laugh so hard? Or is British nobility making me laugh?
Technically we should be using his name throughout—Wikipedia doesn't approve of titles—but I just introduced each of the family once and from then on used "the 1st Duke", "the 3rd Duke" etc, and MOS be damned. The Grenville family all had (and still have) ridiculous names, and I don't want to keep repeating them. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It transpired that the four-wheeled wagons used had an average weight of 31⁄2 tons and each carried 6–7 tons of goods, meaning this limit was regularly exceeded. Using the phrase It transpired means, at least to me, that something happened. Unless this is a phrase in British English that is not in my everyday vernacular, it's not clear what happened, or if this phrase is intended to mean something else.
What I'm trying to say was "it turned out that…"—that is, that they'd assumed nothing would weigh more than 10 tons but once they had it up and running they found the wagons were heavier than planned. Not sure how to reword it; "it turned out" is ugly IMO. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The MOS is unclear about what is preferred, although I have some vague recollection that spelled-out fractions (three quarters of a mile) are preferred over 3/4 of a mile. That could be a thing from a couple years ago. I don't know.
Not sure on that one. I dare say if it's wrong Malleus will spot it. In my opinion, anything that keeps the word count down is a plus in this case. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I removed another "It transpired that". It seemed to be going around the point.
planned stately home of Waddesdon Manor uh, well...all I could her was the voiceover from the campy 1960s Batman series saying "Meanwhile at stately Wayne Manor..." American geeks...
Aw. The cows! Not that I don't eat fired beef or anything...
It could have been a lot worse. I included the cows as an example of the type of accident; one of the books has a loving list of all the assorted critters mangled, squashed and burned by the trains. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The newer engines went faster than 8 mph? There's a lot of detail so I re-read that section but did not see the top speeds of the new engines, one of which struck the servant girl at ... 8 mph? Did she see it 50 feet away and begin screaming as it approached her at a crawl?
Pretty much, yes; that part about the horses being used for passenger services because they were faster than the locomotives isn't a typo. This was the 19th century and the "s" word wasn't used (and certainly not for Lady Grenville's maidservant), but it seems most likely. I included the contemporary press report from the local paper mainly so readers could see there isn't any further explanation. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In the 1830s century Is this a leftover from a long ago copy edit?
What did the upturn in business in the Waddesdon Manor section mean for profits for the Tramway? Previous sections give me the impression it's hanging by a thread. I think I'm looking for a clause at the beginning of the section, like "Despite the rail line's previous financial difficulties, in 1876..."
Hard to say; because at this time it was 100% owned by the Duke and not incorporated, it didn't start filing accounts until 1894. They kept records of volumes hauled, which shows an upturn with all the bricks coming in, but not the profits. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't quite get, or it hasn't been established, what the Brill Brick and Tile Works section means for the rail line. Should this be its own article or something?
The brick works was built on the rail line itself. The logic was that the Duke would make the bricks, and then wouldn't have to pay to ship them provided the customer was also on the line, so could undercut all the other brick factories. Because it's so dependent on the rail line—and Fenemore, who took it over when it closed, makes a brief cameo at the end of the article as one of the directors who shut the line—I don't really want to split it off to a subpage. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Specifically for readers outside the region, whose familiarity with local geography is negligent, can you establish early in the Oxford, Aylesbury and Metropolitan Junction Railway Company section what this means to the Brill line? I don't know where Brill is in the scheme of this section. Maybe something like In 1837 Euston railway station opened, the first to connect London with the industrial heartlands of the West Midlands and Lancashire. "The Brill Tramway was one of several (systems) north? of London with the potential to be connected to the larger metropolitan rail system." And I think I mucked that up quite nicely, but the point of it is where it should be placed and how it should incorporate why two paragraphs separate the next mention of the Brill Tramway.
It includes "In 1873 Watkin entered negotiations to take control of the Aylesbury and Buckingham Railway and the section of the former Buckinghamshire Railway running north from Verney Junction to Buckingham. He planned to extend the MR north from London to Aylesbury and extend the Tramway southwest to Oxford, and thus create a through route from London to Oxford."—do you think it needs more? I was hoping that between that and the map showing how the extension scheme would have worked, it would be enough. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I know someone somewhere is going to remove the fact that the 3rd Duke of Buckingham and Chandos died of diabetes, aged 65. Dude died, delete diabetes detail. Age probably, too.
Removed the diabetes, kept the age—I think the fact that he died relatively young is relevant to all the expansion schemes going on at the time. Guys in their 60s can still take the long view, guys in their 80s are less likely to care. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Similarly the details about who inherited what and how.
I think the inheritance side ought to stay. There needs to be an explanation somewhere that the 3rd Duke of Buckingham's heir was Earl Temple, not the 4th Duke of Buckingham (which common sense would make one assume), otherwise later in the article people will be saying "who the hell is this Earl Temple guy and why is he suddenly in charge?". – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I had to stop at Rebuilding and re-equipping by the O&AT because damn, this is a long article. Although seriously, I thought this article would turn me into this what with being bored. So far it's rather interesting and I'm fully engaged. I hope I can come back to the review soon. You know how I wander off. Remind me if I don't return after a few days. --Moni3 (talk) 14:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all that! I know it's an inherently dull topic, but (as with all these 19th century articles) I do try to show that the people involved were no better, no worse and no different to people today, and that all these Grand Projects were ultimately stories about people, not machinery. I think it's worked on this one. – iridescent15:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
