Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Racism in Israel

Racism in Israel

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The following is from the fisrt comments on this page, which the creator of this page has not replied to.

Most of the content is not actually about racism, because a large proportion of Israeli Jews is of the same ethnicity as the Palestinians. I think this article is just another attempt to heap criticism on Israel, for which we have other more balanced articles. This needs a rewrite or a trip to AFD. JFW | T@lk 06:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC))

Rewrite --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 09:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A. What is the justification for this page, Is there already a racism page on larger nations than aiming at tiny Israel?

Yes. India, the PRChina, and Russia are all individually bigger than Israel, and a quick check of the bottom of Racism in Israel provides links to racism pages on each of those nations. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 09:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

B "OR" it's all a collection of essays, and has a problem of original research.

C - The sources are from obscure books and other enreliable sources

Ha'aretz, the ADL, and Israeli governmental websites meet WP:RS, and if that's being challenged then it should be at WP:RS/N, not here. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 09:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

D - The tone is not proper.Ip82166 (talk) 08:55, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to change it. You can edit almost any article on Wikipedia by just following the Edit link at the top of the page. We encourage you to be bold in updating pages, because wikis like ours develop faster when everybody edits. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. You can always preview your edits before you publish them or test them out in the sandbox. If you need additional help, check out our getting started page or ask the friendly folks at the Teahouse. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 09:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
delete it is one big blog with one agenda tendency to make Israel look like racist.RS101 (talk) 09:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for the reasons I have provided above. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 09:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Some of Haaretz's writers are so infamously on the extreme (like Gideon Levi and others) that are infamous about that, in any case, who has mentioned Haaretz? or ADL?) I mentioned books. I is all cherry-picking, essay-collection, nothing substential, nor a real sourceful article. As to editing, you can edit the Racism in Palestinian Authority as well.Ip82166 (talk) 09:31, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To quote you: 'The sources are from obscure books and other enreliable sources', which clearly implies that all the sources are 'enreliable', which is not the case under enWikipedia policy. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 09:42, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: AFD steps 1 and 3 were missing. Nomination only completed now. Rami R 11:16, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: this is a content dispute. No cogent grounds for deletion have been advanced. AfD is not the appropriate forum for this discussion.--Shirt58 (talk) 12:28, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. -- Beloved Freak 12:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Racism exists everywhere. Israel is no different. To be combated, it needs to be uncovered, recorded and discussed so that racists are shamed into tolerance. Improve the article, don't delete. Chesdovi (talk) 12:32, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article seems more like a series of events and specific acts allegations of racism rather than a history of racism in Israel. Most of the content could be merged into Human rights in Israel, while other info that is not of encyclopedic nature should be removed entirely. If the article resembled Racism in the United Kingdom and Racism in the United States I'd definitely support a keep - but the title is not consistent with the content and sources. Wikifan12345 (talk) 13:01, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this is a very notable topic and the article is well sourced. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:30, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - For many reasons:

(1) Other, similar articles exist such as Racism in the United States or Racism in the United Kingdom

(2) this is a WP:content fork of Human Rights in Israel - specifically, it is a more detailed version of the section Human Rights in Israel#Ethnic_minorities, anti-discrimination and immigration laws;

(3) all of the material is reliably sourced, so if the article were deleted, the material would have to go into Human Rights in Israel, but that latter article is already too large;

(4) this is a rather new article, and is going thru rapid changes now ... time should be given for it to settle down;

(5) there is significant, active discucssion on the Talk page

(6) there is a discussion underway to re-name the article to the less offensive "ethnic discrimination in Israel".

For all those reasons, it should be kept. --Noleander (talk) 14:09, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Defending your own article???

Strong Delete - For many reasons:

Reliable sources

The creator of this articles uses (or shall we say chooses out) some extremely controversial writers and fails to balance the article and to rid it of his point of view.

Sephardists are a race?

What kind of crap is that? just because some extremist utters the word racism doesn't it make so. Note: I think the aforementioned statement needs a source to back it up; it is strong opinions of this sort, stated as though they are obvious facts, which argue strongly for the preservation of this page.

No racism in US State Depatment quote

I can't find anything about racism in the link supposedly citing it.

Blogging - cherrypicking

All in all it's one blog of carefully chosen bits and pieces to prove a point.Colourfully (talk) 14:12, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Coloufully: why did you vote to "Keep" the article Racism in the Palestinian territories? "Keep appreciate that someone can admit that there's wide racism in Palestinian society, authority, it's almost racist to say that Palestinian Arabs can't be racists but Israelis can...Colourfully (talk))" --Noleander (talk) 14:24, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Because there are no criticism pf Palestine, but there are plenty of pages critcizing Israel including using the flag "racists."Colourfully (talk) 18:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge this article into Human Rights in Israel and Anti-Arabism#Israel. No need for yet another POV fork. Marokwitz (talk) 14:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - "Either rewrite it or delete it" is not a valid rationale to file an AfD. If there are editorial concerns with an article, take those concerns to the article talk page. if there is unresolvable disagreement among parties, then follow steps in dispute resolution. Otherwise this is just one big WP:IDONTLIKEIT trip. Tarc (talk) 15:12, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it seems like an important topic to have an article for, and other countries with similar issues have articles for the topic. I do see a problem that very few pages link to it, making me question how important the article is; therefore, if it is decided that there is too much controversial content, it would not be a huge loss to delete the page. Miles Blues (talk · contribs) 15:30, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding "very few articles link to it" : this article was created only a few weeks ago. An "orphan" tag could be added to the top to encourage editors to create links. --Noleander (talk) 14:40, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As I said on the talk page of Racism in the Palestinian territories every society on the planet has racism. It needs improvement and balance, but that is true of most articles on Wikipedia.AMuseo (talk) 16:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep/Merge - I believe the article concerning racism in Palestine should simply be merged with this one. Palestine is under Israel's governmental jurisdiction and I see little reason to distinguish the two in an article of this nature. The topic itself is notable, this article is reasonably well sourced, and "clean it up or delete it" is not a valid reason for nomination. If this article has content problems that is an editorial problem that should be brought up on the talk page and worked out by editors, and attempting to wipe the slate clean will not be productive to that end. Full disclosure, I am pro-Israel, but I think it is foolish to deny that racism exists on both sides within Israel, and should be given a fair and neutral article. - OldManNeptune⚓ (talk) 17:09, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 17:22, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 17:22, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Those of you advocating "Merge" into Human Rights in Israel please be advised that this is already a sub-page of that page. Human Rights in Israel is already 115K as it sits and reintegrating the information seems impossible without breaking the camel's back. I am very uncomfortable with the POV-laced flavor of this article's title, but the topic absolutely merits inclusion. Carrite (talk) 18:06, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I hate the title of this article, but it's clear that the issue of Israel's relations with its ethnic minority population is one of the BIG issues of the world today and well worthy of encyclopedic coverage. I think any call to reintegrate this information is impractical. I urge a retitling of the article. I'm sure the struggle over precise content will be ongoing, as such "hot button" topics generally are on Wikipedia... But the general call here at AfD seems obvious for KEEP. Carrite (talk) 18:11, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I want to clarify that I agree with you on this, but my "keep" vote is largely on the condition that whatever usable content of Racism in Palestine be merged and the article be expanded to include Palestine and racism by Arab Israelis. My keep vote is under the understanding that Israel be defined as Israel's political holdings, which includes Palestine. The article is valid but is also non-neutral. Might suggest a merged title of Racism in Israel and Palestine as a compromise? - OldManNeptune⚓ (talk) 22:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Human Rights in Israel, which covers the same ground with greater depth. Regent of the Seatopians (talk) 00:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, but as it stands now it aught to be deleted.Colourfully (talk) 18:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

keep most of the current page is original research as what constitutes precisely as racism in Israel is highly debated. Much of the info on this page is identical to the apartheid comparison page. However, there is a racism in the Palestinian territories, so there can be a racism in Israel page. I say we have a page where the first part is dedicated to proven racist incidents, and another section where the rest is analogy, commentary.Tallicfan20 (talk) 04:25, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Original resaerch" is a reason to delete.Colourfully (talk) 18:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - There appears to be a broad trend in WP to create articles on "Racism in <some country>". See, for example, the article Racism by country, and the Category Category:Racism by country or region. Also, see Navbox "footer" templates such as: {{asia topic:racism in}}. It looks like about 35 countries have articles on "Racism in..." (or "Ethnic issues in ..") so far, but they appear to be steadily increasing in number. --Noleander (talk) 14:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The actions of Israel have been declared racist by many notable and reliable sources. They have racists laws in effect discriminating against others. So the article is justified. Dream Focus 16:28, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep If RS say its rasism it is.Slatersteven (talk) 18:43, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The books cited are not RS, nor are the selecting of extremists writers in Haaretz.Colourfully (talk) 18:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]