Talk:Mongoloid race
Racist Content
"Mongoloids (or Mongolids as the exact definition for the four Mongolid human races: Tungid,Sinid, Palaungid, Nesid ) are stated to be more pedomorphous both psychically and physically what could explain that they have only created one autochthonous civilization (Shang culture)in contrast to four autochthonous Europid civilizations (cf. Martin-Saller-Knußmann manual,unparalleled in Anglo-American anthropology , setting the world standard since 1914, 4.rev.ed. 1996; John Randal Baker, Race ,Oxford University Press, 1974)."
This passage is clearly racist and irrational. The term "Pedomorphous" is a derogatory adjective. Essentially it's saying Mongoloids must be inferior since they've only created one original civilisation whereas Caucasoids have created four. It's irrational because even if it is true that Caucasoids have created more civilisations it does not logically follow that Mongoloids must be inferior. According to this "logic", the Negroids must be even more "pedomorphous" for they did not even create a single original civilisation.
hair
I always thought "mongoloids" had less body hair e.g. chest hair. just think about bruce lee
Bruce Lee, being from Hong Kong, would be considered a "Southern Mongoloid", though he had facial hair in some of his movies though no or little chest hair.
Races of human kind
Is it controversial or questionable to suggest any one "race" is more "intelligent"?
- Yes!
PC world
yes....in the Politically Correct world we live in...definitely not kosher.....but lets not forget that race is not really an idea or concept for that matter......goes back to the whole discussion of evolution or creation??? whichever you choose the theories both subscribe on race are full of holes.....in either case.....who cares??? thanks to globalization and global warming....now we are all in the shit storm together
stoic
"stoic, taciturn, unaggressive demeanor." I don't think this is NPOV and it only reflects the traits Westerners associate with East Asians. If it is OK to list non-negative traits "associated" with East Asians(such as being stoic and taciturn), why shouldn't we list negative, racist traits along with them, such as East Asians supposedly being cunning or deceitful? We might as well add that they are associated with being inscrutable and mysterious. As for the high intelligence thing, it's questioned within the article and there is a link to another article discussing it further, so I think it should stay.
My feeling is that Mongoloid and similar articles like Caucasoid should be about anthropology and paleontology. Cultural and political stuff should be in other articles and linked as needed.--JWB 19:27, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Transitional Mongoloid?
This topic page is most interesting. But if there really is a "distinction" between Northern and Southern Mongoloid types, is there also such thing as a "transitional Mongoloid race" of people. I am aware that any discussion about this would be merely almost speculation, and a "quasi-science" (too deep into physical anthropology to be of any relevant observation). From my travels in Asia-Pacific, and from my own observations, i really do see a "continuum" of appearances. I find that in China and in Vietnam, that continuum is the most pronounced. The peoples of central-eastern and southern China and Vietnam, to me at least, have a dominantly "northern" general appearance, but they have "southern" hair and body types (according to whatever this page describes them). I know close to nothing about anthropology or anything in the like; so if any knowledgeable person in the field could raise their opinions into this fascinating topic, it would be most good.
I don't think anyone maintains there are pure races. Types like N and S Mongoloid are patterns of traits, that might be a close fit for most people in some areas, but not necessarily all. There is certainly a continuum between N and S Mongoloid, but trying to define boundaries of the transitional zone would be drawing yet more lines and might be difficult.--JWB 19:27, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Proof Against Legitimacy of this Racial Classification
The Human Species a physical anthropology textbook supports this statement. It was copyrighted in 2003, so it is based on the most current knowledge. It is used as an introductory course at the prestigous University of California, Irvine. This university in California is part of the UC system, a number of research universities which use modern data.
- This discussion is in Validity of human races and should not be repeated in every article touching on race.--JWB 15:36, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
Sinoid
After Googling, I don't think this term has any currency at all outside of Wikipedia and derivatives, and is a neologism. It could also be seen as Chinese-centered. (The one use I found was by "Chinese Nationalist Alliance".) I vote to get rid of it. --JWB
Excuse me, but what the f**k is up with the statement that Asians have the characteristic of "high intelligence"? As if every Asian is smarter than every white or a person of any other group for that matter? Just take the phrase out. And don't call me a "politically correct" Marxist either. The largest studies (there were 12 of them you know) of Chinese and Japanese Americans put the mean slightly below 100, read Flynn's book Asians- Achievement Beyond IQ, they're cited in there. Also look at the article Greek IQ, in which it was found that Asians and whites did not differ in psychometric g. (It's on the website of Dienekes Pontikos) You can put, though, that Asians outperform other groups in school grades and on the quantitative portions of standardized tests, such as the SAT and GRE. I'll put in in there if you want me to, babe.
Peace out. --Teth22
Unsourced addition
This addition:
- "Some populations of Northern Europe and Eastern Europe have Mongoloid ancestry as well."
...needs to be properly referenced. Please see WP:CITE. Jkelly 07:51, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- The Kalmyks are clearly Mongoloid and arrived recently. Other populations only have small amounts of Mongoloid admixture.
- I think it would make more sense to just say that much of northern Eurasia is a transitional or clinal zone where peoples show varying degrees of Caucasoid and Mongoloid traits. --JWB 19:11, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Copied from Talk:Mongloid
hey JKelly. That comment seems like it is referring to the northern europeans(whites) whom have mongoloid ancestry. You can change the commment by saying there are asian immigrants in northern europe and eastern europe and they have mongoloid ancestry.
ok —preceding unsigned comment by 72.140.235.202 (talk • contribs)
I think that you have me confused for an author of the article Mongoloid. I have never edited that article except to revert vandalism there. You should address your question about sources, which are always very important, at Talk:Mongoloid, where they will be seen by more editors. This is a redirect. Jkelly 03:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Native Americans
I've never seen a single native-American that looks Japanese. Neither have I ever noticed Koreans having tall nose bridges--on the contrary, they seem to have flatter noses than Japanese, northern Chinese and all other northern Mongoloids.
Ever seen the movie windtalkers? when the navajo dressed up like the japanese army guy and asctually passed for a japanese? My uncle is Native American and gets mistaken for an asian constantly. I am native american and I have single eyelids. Youre opinion seems to come from limited exposure.
That's quite true. I've also seen Windtalkers. I am from Canada and the majority of Native Canadians I've met totally look Japanese or otherwise North Asian. But I find Natives in the States tend to have a different look, unless they are Cree or Mohawk. User:Le Anh-Huy.
- That could be because most Native Canadians descend from the last migration (5 thousand years ago) to enter the Americas but relegated only to the northern-most regions of the continent (which entered after the North Asian type had been established).
- Even in Canada a distinction is made among Native Canadians. Not all Native Canadians are First Nation. It is the First Nations that belong to the earlier migration 20,000 years ago, and these are related to all other Amerindians of the Americas which entered the continent in that period. Al-Andalus 18:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC).
Nasal Bridge Height
On the issue of Koreans having high nasal bridges, I also think this is an absolutely false assertion. Perhaps the person that added that meant to say that among Mongoloids, the Koreans have a relatively higher bridge, but I doubt even this. In my humble experience with hundreds of Koreans, I have never come across a single Korean with a high nasal bridge (except for a couple of Eurasians). What I have noticed is that the nose is much more slender among Koreans, giving it an appearance (when viewed from the front, not profile) of not being as flat and close to the face, when in fact it is closer to the face, and actually with a lower bridge than say a typical Han Chinese.
High nasal bridges are really the domain of New World "Mongoloids" (ie. Native Americans), that is, in the instances when they are considered Mongoloids (many definitions do not classify them as such because of their 20,000 years of isolated evoluion; except of course the Inuit, Aleut, etc. which are indeed relatively recent arrivals to the Northern-most New World, and are not actually Amerindians).
On profile, New World "Mongoloids" do indeed tend to have high nasal bridges (in some cases extremely high bridges, higher than many Caucasoid noses), with hooked columellas to top it off, in addition to lacking epithantic folds and possessing strong chins, making the profile look quite non-Mongoloidish, and appear somewhat Caucasoid. However, the frontal view is quite different. The noses is not slender, which makes it appear flat on frontal view, when in fact it is not. Furthermore, in a frontal view the high cheekbones become evident, as does the flatish face (although not as flat as old world mongoloids) and brachycephalic cranial morphology (again, not as found headed as old world mongoloids).
Furthermore, there is also the assertion in the article that Koreans exibit a less-rounded face, when again, it is in Koreans that the roundest faces are found among all Asians. It is from this that the pejorative terms "moon face" and "blockheads" are directed specifically at Koreans. Al-Andalus 18:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC).
Example of Northern Mongoloid features
Example of Southern Mongoloid feautures
Possibliy not of mongol origin
what evidence is there that they original came from Mongolia
- None. "Mongoloid" means "like Mongols", not "from Mongolia" or "of Mongols". Same with Caucasoid, which means "like Caucasians" (people from the Caucasus), not "from the Caucasus" or "of the Caucasians". Al-Andalus 18:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC).