Talk:Manual transmission

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Moved a Benefit to a Drawback

This sentence "Manual transmissions place slightly more workload on the driver in heavy traffic situations..." was incorrectly placed under Benefits when it's clearly a drawback of manual transmissions. I've moved it to the right category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.77.242 (talk) 10:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Truck transmissions

I put a "fact" tag in the truck transmissions section after the paragraph about operating a truck transmission. While it is true that the proper technique for starting-off with a heavy truck is to completely release the clutch before using any throttle, it is not true that adding throttle won't help the truck move. Just try getting 75,000 pounds of truck started on a steep hill without using the throttle and you will see how much it helps. Rsduhamel (talk) 07:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Steep hills are an extreme case that do not disprove the statement, and if the load (on level ground) is particularly heavy or if the ground is soft, you'd use low gear. For a normal standing start you'd just let go of the clutch, which makes the statement completely correct. Why you think it's wrong because you handle an extreme case differently is beyond me. --204.191.135.101 (talk) 04:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

This quibble is moot; Wikipedia is an encyclopædia, not an instruction manual, so discussion of "proper technique" in operating a manual transmission does not belong. —Scheinwerfermann ^T·_C16:10, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I drove a semi about 15 years ago that used a "box shift". It was similar to a standard "H" pattern, except that 3 and 4 (and thus 7 & 8) were in reversed positions, so that you traversed them as if you were outlining a box. 9th gear and reverse were up and to the left, where 5th is in most standard 5 speeds in modern cars. Unfortunately, could not find info on this with a cursory search, so perhaps I have the terminology wrong. Would love to see that included if someone can find this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.36.95 (talk) 06:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Images

Sure could use some reasonable images of how it works, esp syncros, dogs, shift rails etc.

Most of this doesn't make any sense without images. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.159.47 (talk) 03:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Gear change "Plate"

Anyone have any idea what these 'http://www.dsvs.co.uk/images/gearstick.jpg' 'http://www.rosneathengineering.co.uk/images/gearstick.jpg' are called exactly? --88.108.167.187 (talk) 19:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Commonly known as a "shift gate". Shifters so equipped are called gated shifters. —Scheinwerfermann ^T·_C22:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Porsche Servo Synchromesh

The Porsche synchro was not conical. Instead it used two small curved plates that acted much like a leading-shoe brake to bring the gear and sleeve to the same angular speed. I'll try to dig up an old manual I have and explain in more detail. I also agree with the other talk poster than pictures and animations would better illuminate this subject. --Feweiss (talk) 05:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Synchro/non-synchro vs constant mesh transmissions

The construction of the article implies that non-synchro is equivalent to non-constant mesh (although this point is cleared up in brief in the "Synchro" section). It isn't a simple edit to rewrite it correctly, but it is misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Weasley one (talk • contribs) 09:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Crash gearbox

I've been looking up information about crash gearboxes, but there isn't an article at this title, nor do the search results provide an obvious location. I think therefore a redirect from crash gearbox would be a good idea, possibly to the Unsynchronised transmission section of this article or is there a better target? Thryduulf (talk) 19:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Created "crash gearbox" page. It may be best to merge it in to this page, creating one section for "crash box" and one for "unsynchronized non-crash-box" (but with better names!). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pardo (talk • contribs) 22:33, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Lexus IS F

Should this really be mentioned on this page? The car has an 8 speed semi-automatic, not a manual. I don't believe it belongs here. A very crude definition of a manual transmission would be one that involves a driver operated clutch -- the Lexus does not have this feature and relies on torque converters to decouple the engine and transmission. Since this serves as the basis for the idea that more than 6 forward gears are available in commercial cars, all references to more than 6 speeds should be removed. Willing to retract this opinion if someone can find a picture of an 8 speed gear shift in a Lexus IS F that does not involve paddle shifters and clearly shows a clutch pedal. 24.218.141.183 (talk) 03:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction?

"The NHTSA reports that manual transmissions also result in 37% fewer accidents per mile driven. Experts believe that this is due to the extra attention required while driving a stick-shift. For example, it is difficult to use a cell phone while driving a manual transmission."

"...automated manual and semi-automatic transmissions are becoming more common on heavy vehicles, as they...may improve safety by allowing the driver to concentrate on road conditions." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.244.77.110 (talk) 22:59, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, it depends on the driver. If one usually takes the risk to use a cellphone while driving, then a manual gearbox will make a drive with that driver a bit safer. If phones are not an issue with a driver, then he can concentrate more on the road. But honestly that is complete crap, because when you are OK with the manual gearbox, it doesn't distract you even a bit from the road. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.122.212.158 (talk) 22:05, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

there are not many statistics about manual vs automatics from a safety standpoint and the "NHTSA study" mentioned seems to have been a fictitious creation unless the NHTSA for some reason buried it. however there was a study done by the University of Virginia which showed a vast improvement of safety with manual transmission in people with ADHD. here are several links to articles referring to the study. [1] [2] [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.35.1.98 (talk) 20:12, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

One drawback is not a drawback, propose removed from there

Almost half of the "drawback" section actually talks about the need of driver's expertise to operate a manual gearbox as of a drawback. But wait a minute, since when an expertise requirement in any given field is considered a drawback?! That is just a particular characteristic of a manual transmission, and in no case should be placed under "drawbacks". Followng this logic, the ideal car is the one that you get into, tell the car where you wanna go, and just sit and do nothing.

I propose this "drawback" is removed from there and placed in a new neutral category, or at least marked as neither a benefit, nor a drawback. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.122.212.158 (talk) 22:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. Think of it in reverse, is it an advantage if the need for a skill is removed by a change in technology? I would assert that it is which then makes the requirement for that skill is a drawback, assuming that there is an alternative device that does not need that skill. CrispMuncher (talk) 23:14, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess you could argue that it's easy to overstate the expertise needed to drive a manual car. I mean, it's not as if significant numbers of British people (for instance) are prohibited from driving because they can't "master the skill" of using a manual transmission. It's really just a different way of driving the car, it's not really any more difficult once you get used to it. Does walking up a flight of stairs demand more skill than using an elevator? There's certainly more involvement on the part of the person walking up the stairs, but it's not something only a skilled person can do. Blankfrackis (talk) 01:01, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, Blankfrackis is right - once you master the manual gearbox, it's in no case more difficult than something else, you even stop paying attention to it and switch gears automatically (sorry for the pun). And the example with the elevator is great.

@CrispMuncher, the problem is that the automatic transmission is not an equal replacement for a manual gearbox. While it does the job of switching gears, it deprives the driver a great deal of control over the vehicle (not only in the realm of switching gears), and unless the driver is a "passanger with steering privileges", the automatic gearbox won't do a lot for him/her. The automatic gearbox is just a sort of a compromise for those who are lazy enough, or are just unwilling to use a manual transmission.

It's just that some people don't really care about what control they have over their car, they just want to get from A to B (and are not really drivers, but "passangers with steering privileges", as I said above), but you can't say that that is the way things should generally be (and a manual transmission is an outdated technology). And they're always going to be discussions on this matter because of the initial assumptions of the sides: some people assume driving should be made as easy and less involving as possible, until we have complete auto-drivers, and the others just like the very process of driving a vehicle, and while they'd like that process to be facilitated by different means, e.g. computerization, they wouldn't like parts of the control or the process of driving be taken away from them.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.122.212.158 (talk) 21:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

There are benefits and drawbacks to everything. Since when is requiring expertise a drawback? Since always. A drawback doesn't mean that it is worse than something else, a benefit doesn't mean it is better, it is just something to consider. --RLent (talk) 18:04, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

It absolutely is a drawback, no question about it. I can tell you a list of licensed drivers I know who cannot drive manuals, and zero who cannot drive automatics. None of us are saying that they couldn't learn, but if they needed to drive somebody to the hospital in a hurry, they simply could not drive a manual. That's a drawback, they require more training, and in a city like San Francisco, a lot more experience even once somebody learns. It's nothing to get defensive about, it's just a fact. Further proof that it's a drawback is that teaching a beginner to drive your manual will generally shave ten thousand miles off the life of your clutch too. Borrowing a friend's car often leads to some neck flexing startups too, as some cars have quite stiff clutches and other soft, it's a flawless transition, and it's also bad for the clutch. 71.190.72.157 (talk) 22:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

"intuitive"

The article talks in several places about how R facing to the back is intuitive, and R pulling toward the driver and up on a column mounted shifter is not. All ridiculous. If R is intuitively placed, then 2nd and 4th are counterintuitive? It's silly. And pulling toward the driver on a column mount is toward the back of the car, which I would not call intuitive but whoever wrote it should have. 71.190.72.157 (talk) 22:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)