Talk:Leonardo da Vinci

Moveable or Movable

I've been thinking about weather or not, this should be edited. So the question is, should the following sentence below have the word "Moveable" changed to Movable?

"When he fled to Venice in 1499 he found employment as an engineer and devised a system of movable barricades to protect the city from attack."

The Merriam-Webster only lists Movable

--Rttam (talk) 13:03, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Both are correct English spellings. However "moveable" is generally used in English law, while "movable" is probably more common. do you really want it changed?

Amandajm (talk) 13:58, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The name

In italian, the name "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci" means Leonardo (dזyyyyyyyyyttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ohmygod i did it again so im gonna let the beat drop ֩i- son of) (ser signor - sir mister) Piero (from) Vinci. In the XV century surname was used but in a small comunity often the family name was the same and, sometimes nowdays too, for identify a person you can use the name and "di" (name of father or mother) or "da- from" the village or the town "colloquial" Assianir (talk) 11:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

What's in a name?

Assianir, are you suggesting we change the wording? If so, then what to?

• Leonardo's father was Piero Fruosino di Antonio da Vinci. The question here is: was "da Vinci" being used as a surname in the manner that we understand it? Or was the father's surname Fruosino, and the "di Antonio da Vinci" added to better identify him? Did Piero (and/or Leonardo) use "da Vinci" when at home in Vinci, or did they assume it when living in, or doing business with Florence etc? There was still a good deal of flexibility as to how names were used at that date. What was the grandfather called?
• The way in which a Renaissance person has gone down in history is very flexible. This is due in part to the flexibility with which names were used in the 15th century. As long as a person could be identified, their names were not as fixed as they would be now, unless they belonged to a noble line.
• In the case of Leonardo, his fame was so great that only one name was necessary. Giorgio Vasari introduces him as Leonardo da Vinci. Since then, art historians have frequently referred to him simply as Leonardo, and only more recently as Leonardo da Vinci. It is considered a sign of ignorance to refer to him only as "da Vinci" as Dan Brown does in the The Da Vinci Code. However, nowadays the "da Vinci" bit needs to be tacked on the end, in case some silly person thinks that one is referring to an actor.
• Likewise, Michelangelo has never needed more than a Christian name. His surname, regardless of how distinguished, is entirely superfluous in terms of identifying him. And anyone who habitually refers to him as "Buonarroti" is regarded as a willie wonka. The other great painter who shared his Christian name is referred to by his place of origin.
• Caravaggio is an interesting case in the shift of surnames. His surname was Merisi, and he was from Caravaggio, so "da Caravaggio" (like da Vinci) is a possibility. I don't know whether he is ever referred to in this way in Italy, but he's always just plain Caravaggio in English.
• Fra Angelico managed to lose all his names along the way and has come down by a sort of nickname, even though Vasari wrote his biography as Brother Giovanni from Fiesole. As for Botticelli, although it sounds like a surname, it was probably his baby name, indicating he was as round as a little tub. Amandajm (talk) 01:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Amandajm (talk) 00:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting anything. Just explaing, who don't know italian, the meaning of "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci". Because the "di ser Piero da Vinci" added to better identify him and it isn't a real surname like Buonarroti.Assianir (talk) 11:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It's already written in the article that his name means Leonardo, the son of Mr Piero from Vinci. I thought that you wanted something changed! Cheers! Amandajm (talk) 04:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

== Typesetting bug ==yeaboyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Resolved

The caption of the image on the right is truncated.

A recent edit causes a caption to appear truncated on my 1280x800 laptop display with Firefox 3.06 running on Ubuntu (see screenshot). Removing the forced image sizing fixes the bug for me. I won't change it without discussion, due to the inline comment. Thanks, Papa November (talk) 19:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I've changed it to an upright. It works on my screen. If it doesn't work on yours, would you please change it to an ordinary thumbnail? Amandajm (talk) 06:13, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

It's fixed now, thanks. I've marked the thread as resolved. Papa November (talk) 09:40, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

we should have more of his sience —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.4.93 (talk) 21:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

There is a whole article on his science Science and inventions of Leonardo da Vinci. In fact Leonardo was much more influential as a painter than as a scientist. It is only in the last century or so that people have started to take much of an interest in his scientific studies. Amandajm (talk) 05:37, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

More About Leo

Leonardo da Vinci was born in Vinci, but that is in Florence.

There are only ten surviving paintings that experts are sure that Leonardo painted. Some of which are "The Mona Lisa" "Young girl with Ermine" and "Ginerva de' Benci"

Leonardo also he also made plans for helecopter-like machine, an 80foot long crossbow, water shoes, a spring driven car, a bicycle chain, an 8 barrel gun, a scuba suit, and much more. He was very convinced that man would one day fly.

He also had huge plans for making a giant statue of a horse. After working on it for 10 years, he completed a full size model of it. It was 24feet high. He never completed the accual statue though. Michaelangelo later made fun of him for it.

He also disected about 30 bodies. What he learned from them was put down in his notebooks. He believed that in order to draw a person, you had to how they looked and worked in the inside.

With that knowledge, he designed the first robot. He might of even built it too. It was a full size knight in armor. It could sit up, move it's head, and wave it's arms.

kjhTheKnowItAll (3/24/09)

P.S. I wrote the editing that says "Washington Wasn't First President" in the list of presidents article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KjhTheKnowItAll (talk • contribs) 01:48, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Kjh! I think if you read this article and look at the big box at the bottom which lists Leonardo's works and which will lead you to some different articles, you will find that we have just about all this information well covered on Wikipedia. It sounds as if you have done a lot of reading about Leonardo.

Amandajm (talk) 06:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

about leonardo being an artis

he drew out different sketches of brand new inventions that the inventors who invented it might have studied his notebooks and invented it. he drew the ideas nicely and labeled them, but never really tried inventing them, except for a flying machine. he drew the human body and lots more....keep on getting on wikipedia.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.37.189.197 (talk) 09:26, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Links to works

Could we have links to other works by the artist highlighted in a differen color? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.94.236.181 (talk) 22:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

At the bottom of the article is a list of all his paintings and some other works. Amandajm (talk) 07:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Leonardo Da Vinci lived in Italy more than five hundred years ago.He was one of the smartest men of his time.He was an artist and sculpter.He drew designs for machines to fly in the air and sail on the sea,and he discovered many things about how our body works.This is Leonardo's story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.22.214 (talk) 21:47, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Leonardo's closest personal relationships were with two pupils, Gian Giacomo Caprotti da Oreno, nicknamed Salai or Il Salaino ("The Little Unclean One" i.e., the devil), who entered his household in 1490. After only a year, Leonardo made a list of his misdemeanours, calling him "a thief, a liar, stubborn, and a glutton", after he had made off with money and valuables on at least five occasions, and spent a fortune on clothes.[41] Nevertheless, Leonardo's notebooks during their early years contain many drawings of the student, who remained within Leonardo's household for the next thirty years.[8]Salai executed a number of paintings under the name of Andrea Salai, but although Vasari claims that Leonardo "taught him a great deal about painting",[12] his work is generally considered to be of less artistic merit than others among Leonardo's pupils such as Marco d'Oggione and Boltraffio. In 1515 he painted a nude version of the Mona Lisa, known as Monna Vanna.[42] Salai owned the Mona Lisa at the time of his death in 1525, and in his will it was assessed at 505 lire, an exceptionally high valuation for a small panel portrait.[43] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.103.124.185 (talk) 19:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Arabic Origins

This article says that da Vinci might have been an Arab, I think this needs to be reflected here in the article, especially that the article says that his mother Caterina is not a peasant (as mentioned in our article) but a slave from Istanbul with Middle Eastern/Mediterranean origins. --Yamanam (talk) 12:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

"Leonardo may have been an Arab"?

Let's look at the article:

Leonardo's mother might have been..... well, what does it say she might have been?

It says she might have been "Oriental". In Britain "Oriental" is the term usually used for a "Far Eastern" person, not a "Middle Eastern" person ie Chinese, not Arabic. But never mind... the paper is quoting an Italian expert who might use the term differently.

The same expert says "or at least, from the Mediterranean". Well, there's an awful lot of people live around the Mediterranean that are not Arabic. In fact a great many of them are Italian.

It says she was not a peasant but a slave. Well, she might have started out as a slave, but she lived as a peasant, married to a peasant farmer and living in a cottage, surrounded by vineyards that belonged (as far as I know) to Leonardo's father, not the man she married.

The article gives no clue as to why "Istanbul" is hit upon as her place of origin.

Indeed, there are people of Arabic background in Istanbul, but Turkish people generally say they are not Arabs.

We are informed by one of the experts that a particular whorl is found on 60% os Middle Eastern people, but at no time have I been able to ascertain if and how frequently this same whorl is found on the hands of Italians who are not known to have Middle Eastern origins.

The scientists really have no idea whether the fingerprint is Leonardo's or not. The particular painting in which they claim to have got a clear print (in the background) is one of those that not all scholars agree about. And one thing that is agreed is that its background has been entirely repainted. So any genuine prints are under a later layer of black paint.

The whole case for Leonardo being an Arab, based on the prints and on the Telegraph article is not very convincing. Until recently the article stated that Leonardo's mother may have been from the Middle East. (This is not the same as saying that Leonardo was an Arab). This was deleted because another editor considered it speculative. There is an article on Leonardo's personal life. I think it is dealt with in more detail there.

Amandajm (talk) 14:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

My finger is itching... Restraint, restraint! By the way, what's this? Leo "lived in the household of his father, grandparents and uncle, Francesco... Frank was simultaneously Len's dad, grandad (and gran), and uncle? Sounds like Tasmania. (As in, "In Tasmania, a virgin is a girl who can run faster than her uncle.") PiCo (talk)

Leonardo's closest personal relationships were with two pupils, Gian Giacomo Caprotti da Oreno, nicknamed Salai or Il Salaino ("The Little Unclean One" i.e., the devil), who entered his household in 1490. After only a year, Leonardo made a list of his misdemeanours, calling him "a thief, a liar, stubborn, and a glutton", after he had made off with money and valuables on at least five occasions, and spent a fortune on clothes.[41] Nevertheless, Leonardo's notebooks during their early years contain many drawings of the student, who remained within Leonardo's household for the next thirty years.[8]Salai executed a number of paintings under the name of Andrea Salai, but although Vasari claims that Leonardo "taught him a great deal about painting",[12] his work is generally considered to be of less artistic merit than others among Leonardo's pupils such as Marco d'Oggione and Boltraffio. In 1515 he painted a nude version of the Mona Lisa, known as Monna Vanna.[42] Salai owned the Mona Lisa at the time of his death in 1525, and in his will it was assessed at 505 lire, an exceptionally high valuation for a small panel portrait.[43]

These claims about leonardo's supposed Arabic ancestry are so speculative and lacking in evidence they really should be heavily qualified. How about something like: "it has been claimed by [insert name] that leonardo might have had an oriental ancestry on his mother's side but…" and then give some of the reasons for being sceptical about this claim. Ad it stands this is just the type of nonsense that is likely to become an oft-repeated piece of folklore. After all, there is NOTHING in leonardo's appearance that suggests Middle eastern, Chinese, Arabic or anything else other than Italian. Leaving the claim as it is a serious misrepresentation of the slender facts. ---- Eluard 16th September 2009

I suggest the following emendation. (i see that the page has been locked by the editors.)

Leonardo was born on April 15, 1452, "at the third hour of the night" in the Tuscan hill town of Vinci, in the lower valley of the Arno River in the territory of Florence. He was the illegitimate son of Messer Piero Fruosino di Antonio da Vinci, a Florentine notary, and Caterina, a peasant who may have been a slave from the mediteranean region. According to Alessandro Vezzosi, Head of the Leonardo Museum in Vinci, there is evidence that Piero owned a slave called Caterina, who was bought in Constantinople, who gave birth to a boy called Leonardo. This has lead to somewhat dubious claims that Leonardo had Middle Eastern ancestry based on a fingerprint found on a painting that may be his — but equally, may not be as well. And whether it is or not the evidence is not strong. "Experts Reconstruct Leonardo Fingerprint" December 12, 2001</ref> Leonardo had no surname in the modern sense, "da Vinci" simply meaning "of Vinci": his full birth name was "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci", meaning "Leonardo, (son) of (Mes)ser Piero from Vinci".

Does this not more accurately reflect the facts? BTW leonardo was born the year before Constantinople fell to Mehmet II. So if the Caterina that leonardo's father supposedly bought was leonardo's mother then it would have been in Constantinople, not Istambul. But the name Caterina in fact suggests a girl of Greek/Byzantine origin.

So I propse the above emenadation to the editors. Maybe we can fiddle with the wording a little to produce something that would satisfy everyone. --- Eluard 16th September, 2009.

I just answered you on your talk page, but have transferred it here as well, having seen this edit.

I've just reverted your edit re the fingerprint and Middle Eastern background. The problem is that the information that is stated there is referenced. Your addition of "Mediterranean" and "weakly" were not referenced and so were statements of your personal opinion. You can't revert to personal opinion or personal research on Wiki. Thoses are the rules.

With regards to the fingerprint and its whorls, a statement has been made that the fingerprint has a characteristic that is found in Middle Eastern fingerprints. But I have never been able to get an answer to the question as to whether that characteristic is also found in Italian fingerprints, or whether it is found in other 15th century Florentine fingerprints specifically. There is no way of assessing the validity of the statement that the fingerprint nbelongs to someone of Middle Eastern origin unless this fact is forthcoming. Even if the characterisic was only found in a relatively small number of Italians, then it negates the assertion. None of the information presented to the public on this matter has been detailed or scientific.

Despite this, I cannot offer my opinions, in the context of a Wikipedia article. Amandajm (talk) 13:24, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Amandajm. your remarks are rather disingenuous — YOU YOURSELF point out that the expert said "or from the Meditteranean region". So the claim is referenced in the same report that makes the claim for Middle Eastern origins — and you yourself have noted that. To leave the statement as it is is effectively to use Wikipedia to spread a distorted, politically charged view. It has nothing to do with my opinion, or yours. It has to do with what the original claim was. FWIW I think we agree on the merit of the original claim, but we disagree on how this issue should be represented in an encyclopedia. I agree that my addition of the word 'weakly' is my own assessment of the merit of the claim (and probably yours) but I don't see how it is less accurate, or even more opinionated than saying that "it is supported by". Where are the scientific articles here that the public can access? — or even an academic, since that is what I am (I mean seriously, an article from the aap news service!) How credible does this make Wikipedia? I have now re-edited the page, putting in the reference that you ask for and making it considerably more balanced than it was. If you revert the changes then I think the matter should go to Wikipedia moderation. Eluard 28th September 2009.

• "from the Mediterranean region". Did I point out that an expert said that? Italy is a narrow country. Almost every person in it lives fairly close to the Mediterranean. It seems like a ridiculous statement.

*Your additions of refutation of the statement are clumsy and out of place in an already over-long article. When I first started editting this article, the bulk of biographical material pertained to the question of whether he was or wasn't homosexual, and in particular, pederast. The article still retains reference to his close association with two student/companions, but there is now room for information about what he is famous for, painting. That is because a new article on his Personal Life was created.

• Do you mind arguing this interesting matter out on the other page?
• It remains an undeniable and irrefutable fact that "it has been claimed" he was of Middle Eastern origin, whether the claim is true or otherwise. It might also be claimed that he got his idea for a flying machine straight from a little green man with a pointed head. Take a look at the shape of the so called "tank". Kind of proves it, doesn't it? I would prefer to just remove all reference to this unproven and not-very-well supported theory. However, as soon as it is removed, it will be inserted back into the article.
• As it stands right now, interrupting the biographical details with a statement that someone or other doesn't agree with the theory is inappropriate. Your addition of the refutation should stand, but it must be turned into a properly working footnote. As for the words "at least from the Mediterranean", I think they are superfluous. If Caterina was born a few miles to the West, then she came from the Mediterranean.

Amandajm (talk) 08:26, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, I just looked through the discussions above and found the reference to the Mediterranean. Amandajm (talk) 08:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I am happy that all this be removed, as it now has been. The point is that the previous Wikipedia page was actually even less nuanced and objective than the AAP news report — which was already falling far short of an academic citation in a peer reviewed journal. To cite a news report in this way just misleads the public as to the credibility of a particular claim. I don't think that Wikipedia would be happy to play that role. So let us hope that the page will stay as it is and that we can keep it free of these claims until such time as they reach a minimum standard of academic acceptability. --- Eluard 28th September 2009

Amandajm, You'll find here

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9407E3DF163EF932A05751C1A9609C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

a discussion by Simon Cole of the fingerprint issue. I think it will reinforce the need for a responsible scepticism with respect to this claim. The claim has, effectively, been refuted. (I've been trying to trace the journal article in Anthropologie, a journal belonging to the Moravian Museum in Brno. It is not online, and the abstract makes NO MENTION OF THE MIDDLE EAST CLAIM.or any other claim about origins. I am also not sure that this journal is peer reviewed — doesn't look like it.) --- Eluard Sept 28th 2009.

New question: what is the basis for the claim that Leonardo's father bought a slave named Caterina who then had a son named Leonardo. I can see the support (slender and unreferenced though it might be) that his father bought a slave named Caterina, but I don't see that ANYONE has said she had a son named leonardo. This little addition makes this slave purchase seem much more relevant than it states in any of the referenced material. If there is no support for this can it be edited out please. --- Eluard Sept 29th 2009

• I have no idea about where the claim that Caterina had a son called Leonardo comes from. It certainly isn't in the document cited. I have wondered about this myself, because if she did indeed have a son called Leonardo, then it is surely the Leonardo in question.
• The process of editting here means that unless one queries and checks every single "fact" that every editor inserts, then unverifeid facts slip in. If someone writes, "He had a slave who had a son Leonardo" and then cites the person who supposedly said it, and references it, then I don't necessarily check it. I don't "own" the article.
• Also, about the line that says "at least from the Mediterranean". I have just realised what is meant by this. He says that "Caterina was "Oriental", at least from the Mediterranean." He is not using "from the Mediterranean" in a general sense. He is using it to define what part of the "Orient" Caterina might come from, in other words, Turkey, Palestine or Lebanon, not China, India or Afghanistan.
• I think the line about her having a son called Leonardo has to go, since it is definitely unreferenced and I don't know how it snuck in.

Amandajm (talk) 12:03, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

leonardo davinci and mirror writing

Leonardo DaVinci and Mirror writing. As a professional involved in diagnosing and treating ADHD (Attentional Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) for more than 30 years it has always interested me in evaluating past famous people who might have had his condition. Roger Sperry received the Nobel Prize in 1982 for his research on the split brain. Each hemisphere has its own unique talents difficult to analyze in the intact human brain as the two brains functions inter-react. However with the human brain split in two, each hemisphere could easily be evaluated and the individual talents of each brain analyzed and easily understood. This certainly shed enormous light in understanding ADHD as a genetically inherited condition.

Certainly Winston Churchill, Albert Einstein and many more might well have had this inherited condition. Leonardo DaVinci certainly fulfils many of the diagnostic criteria. Most people have a dominant left brain. Each hemisphere supports the opposite side of the body thus making most people right handed. ADHD is predominantly an inherited very talented right brain and to some degree an immature left brain As the visio-spacial dominant brain supports the opposite of the body, being right brained dominant would usually make the person have a tendency to being left handed. Leonardo was left handed. The natural tendency for the majority of people with a dominant left language brain would be to work from the left dominant brain towards the right side making it natural to write from left to right. However if the right brain was dominant as in ADHD, the tendency would be to write from right to left. Leonardo used mirror righting for this reason. Children with ADHD often reverse letters especially the “b” and “d”, and are often left handed and are also often musical and artistic like Leonardo.

The right brain has talent for art, music, creative inventive and practical handy man ability. Leonardo had all of this. The left brain is the language, formal learning, organized, listening brain focusing on the spoken word. Leonardo had no or little formal learning. The right brain is particularly hasty and easily distracted with a poor concept of time. This certainly describes Leonardo if one considers how often he never finished a painting.

With a talented right brain he would also drift from one place to another, never quite settling down. The right brain seems to master mechanical maths very easily and Leonardo was self taught. However story sums (word sums) are done with the left language brain and not easily mastered. The right brain is a very physical brain endowering the person with clear physical abilities and often muscular strength. Leonardo was allegedly a physically strong person.

The ability to use body language from the right brain in preference to the spoken word from the left would allow a right brained person to express him self visually and spatially with great depth and accuracy. This certainly showed in the great depth and detail of his paintings.

ADHD is very often seen in adopted children who are born out of wedlock and given out for adoption. Leonardo was an illegitimate child. It would seem there is more than enough to diagnose ADHD posthumously in the great gifted artist.

When a psychometric evaluation is done on an ADHD person the non verbal IQ (right brain) is invariably higher than the verbal IQ (left brain.) This is hardly surprising. It can be assumed the artist must have had a gifted IQ to have done what he was able to do without any formal learning. He did not need any formal learning for his immature left brain. His creative, artist right brain would allow him to be drawn to art and benefit immensely and enthusiastically from any training he might receive in this field. He certainly did, even outdoing his teachers. Einstein and Churchill both had formal learning thrust on them with limited success. Their Visio-spacial brains excelled. The talented right brain often results in hyperactive behavior problems. Churchill and Einstein had behavior problems and Churchill also showed considerable artistic talent. The badly behaved the visio-special temperamental tennis player, John McEnroe who was also left handed and he certainly able to express himself with is talented right brain using rather body language in preference to verbal. Smashing a tennis racket is certainly good body language. The artistically gifted Michael Angelo was also left handed. So was Mozart and Beethoven.

I as a non diagnosed left handed ADHD person can well remember my problematical early education during the war years when children wrote on slate to save paper. As I wrote across the slate with my left hand I smudged my work as my hand moved across the slate. I did not revert to mirror writing but I certainly confused the letters “b” and “d” (reversals). I received no sympathetic understanding from the ignorant teachers. Luckily my left handed genetically inherited mechanically gifted son was not only recognised but successfully treated. So was the artistically talented Churchill. One wonders what Leonardo might have achieved with correct effective modern medical treatment? Leonardo’s mirror writing was certainly due to a talent many ADHD people have in giving preference to the left hand and easily adapt to using mirror writing. They have a natural talent for reversing the written word. Dr. W.J. Levin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ethbil (talk • contribs) 08:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Burial place

Leonardo was not buried initially at St. Hubert's chapel, as the current text leads to believe. He was buried at the collégiale Saint-Florentin, which was inside the walls of the castle. This building (and some others, including those that served as the appartments of Catherine of Medicis) was dimantled during the XIX century. During later excavation, some human remains which could be those of Leonardo, were exhumated and transferred to the chapel. This appears in one of the notes in the wikipedia entry [1]on the Amboise castle. Should it not appear here too?

Jcgdelgado (talk) 12:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Leonardo the fabulist

Leonardo should be in the fabulists category. He wrote many original fables in his notebooks. See The Notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, compiled and edited by Jean Paul Richter, Dover, volume II, p. 335-346, 373-374. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.84.144.11 (talk) 00:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome to add him to any category you think appropriate. PiCo (talk) 01:06, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

dyslexia

Leonardo da Vinci also had dyslexia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.127.169 (talk) 01:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Dyslexia is very much part and parcel of ADHD. A talented artistic righ brain and an immature left phonic language left brain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.247.100.118 (talk • contribs)

Death

What was the cause of death? I couldn't find any. --Moppaaja (talk) 23:44, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Estimated IQ

He is often regarded as having an estimated IQ of at least 230—probably one of the hightest IQs in history for a famous person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.52.200 (talk) 02:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

This is a rough guess. It is probably also a flawed guess, since it is based on the supposition that Leonardo da Vinci was a universal genius. And to derive a high IQ score from such a supposition seems silly. It is true that da Vinci had demonstrated ingenuity in a variety of areas, but these areas may differ from the areas tested on by an IQ test (one such area [tested by an IQ test] probably being natural pattern detection), and if he [or anyone else in history who is claimed by some to have had an extremely high IQ] were to take an actual IQ test, the test result may turn out to be significantly lower than some would expect. There currently seems to be no way to determine what his actual IQ was, and since the estimated IQ is a guess and unfounded, it is not significant enough to include it within this article. --82.31.164.172 (talk) 07:48, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Any further news regarding this painting?

I'm sure many of you have heard about this (self?) portrait, descovered earlier this year. So does anybody here know, if art experts have already found out whether it's authentic or not (both regarding timeframe and authorship?) [2] Fulcher (talk) 04:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It very closely resembles the portrait in the Ufizzi by Cristofano dell’Altissimo. It is not a separate, individual work. It is either a copy of or a study for the Cristofano painting. I would go for the latter. My reasons for this is that the anatomy in this painting appears rather weak.

The general opinion of experts who have examined it is that it is not by Leonardo himself. Alessandro Vezzosi, director of the Museo Ideale Leonardo da Vinci at Vinci, has indicated that he thinks that it might be by Cristofano. I haven't heard results of later analysis. Amandajm (talk) 05:26, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Young Girl in Profile in Renaissance Dress

Could I add Young Girl in Profile in Renaissance Dress to this article? As instructed (talk) 17:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you can. Gaud123 (talk) 01:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Leonardo Da Vinci’s mother was possibly Azeri?

RFERL (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) recently published a new article (see here) by Louis Buff Parry, an Italian-Canadian scholar, in which he argues that Leonardo da Vinci's mother was in fact an Azerbaijani. He says that the mother "Caterina" was a slave from Istanbul who was brought there from Azerbaijan. Its also worth mentioning that Da Vinci himself travelled to Turkey and Azerbaijan to discover his Caucasian roots, according to the article. Although I agree nothing is certain yet and research still continues on this matter, this interesting issue should be reflected in the article. Neftchi (talk) 16:39, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Lol!!! Louis Buff Parry is far from being an uninterested scholar, he is a mouthpiece of Azerbaijan in Canada. He is the director of public relations of Alberta's Azerbaijani Cultural Society and a nice non-Azeri-name proxy. [3] Funny to watch the nationalists after it was suggested he was a slave since it was all the elements they needed to claim him Azerbaijani. In the 15th century, it was Shirvanshahs rules and the population was Perso-Arabic. Besides, the only research tracing such an origin concluded Arabic bloodline. [4] —Preceding unsigned comment added by XrAi (talk • contribs) 22:07, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

• Lol indeed. I am sure this will be the cause of much merriment in certain circles. This almost comes down to the level of the drive-by Catalan patriot who attributed Don Quixote to an unknown Catalan author a while back! Or indeed the "black Cleopatra" Afrocentrist crowd. I mean really.

• Seriously, though. When you have something better than a Radio Free Europe piece by the PR director of Alberta's local Azeri society, let us know, and we will be happy to compare and contrast reliable sources civilly and respectfully. Otherwise, you can hardly censure our mirth. Moreschi (talk) 00:55, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

"The Medici made me and the Medici destroyed me."

The Adoration of the Magi, (1481)—Uffizi. The Medici destroyed this commission.

The page of the codex that bears this particular statement is currently on display at the Bibliotheca Ambrosiana in Milano. The museum's description of the passage states that Leonardo was referring to the medical treatment that he was receiving from the Medici(doctors), not to the politics of patronage, as is suggested by the current article. The curators at the Bibliotheca Ambrosiana evidently understand this statement to mean that the Medidi assisted in his birth, and are now killing him with their treatments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.208.222 (talk) 19:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

That is interesting. It is a possible explanation. However, it is not the way in which it is usually interpreted.

• Firstly, it is most unlikely that a doctor was in attendance at Leonardo's birth. Hence no doctor would have had any part in "making " him.
• Secondly, Lorenzo Medici packed Leonardo off to Milan at the time when he had a major commission on the go. It promised to be a truly remarkable painting, but was never completed. If Leonardo felt bitterness towards the Medici, then it is hardly surprising.

Amandajm (talk) 23:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} This page and the [[5]] page contradict each other. The Da'Vinci page says (in the end of the "Childhood, 1452-1466" part) that "a local peasant requested that Ser Piero ask his talented son to paint a picture on a round plaque" while the Medusa page says that it was a shield, and that the peasant asked Pierro Da'Vinci to paint it and Pierro asked Leonardo to paint it, not the peasant asking Leonardo to paint it. If it makes any difference, I have only read that it was a shield. His-Story (talk) 22:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)His-Story

Sorry, but other Wikipedia articles cannot be used as sources. If there was a source in the other article stating so, please put that here.  fetchcomms☛ 22:42, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The source is clear. It's Vasari. The direct quote says "buckler" which is a round shield. However, the peasant didn't ask Piero to paint it. Piero was not a painter. He asked Piero to have it painted for him. I'll fix this. Amandajm (talk) 07:59, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Leonardo da Vinci's Resume

When I visited Leonardo da Vinci's home in France a few years ago I was extremely impressed with his personal resume which was available when touring his home (written in French). After visiting the Leonardo exhibition in NYC this week I remembered it and decided to search for it on the web. I was surprised not to find it on Wikipedia, but I did find a version of it with commentary, translated into English on this page: http://blog.ragan.com/archives/speechblog/2005/10/the_da_vinci_re.html

Here is the resume itself - I'm interested in having this excerpt added to the page on wikipedia. Thanks for your consideration.

Eric Kratzer

Job application that Leonardo submitted to Ludovico Sforza, the ruler of Milan, in 1482

“Most Illustrious Lord: Having now sufficiently seen and considered the proofs of all those who count themselves masters and inventors in the instruments of war, and finding that their invention and use does not differ in any respect from those in common practice, I am emboldened … to put myself in communication with your Excellency, in order to acquaint you with my secrets. I can, construct bridges which are very light and strong and very portable with which to pursue and defeat an enemy … I can also make a kind of cannon, which is light and easy of transport, with which to hurl small stones like hail … I can noiselessly construct to any prescribed point subterranean passages - either straight or winding - passing if necessary under trenches or a river … I can make armored wagons carrying artillery, which can break through the most serried ranks of the enemy. In time of peace, I believe I can give you as complete satisfaction as anyone else in the construction of buildings, both public and private, and in conducting water from one place to another. I can execute sculpture in bronze, marble or clay. Also, in painting, I can do as much as anyone, whoever he may be. If any of the aforesaid things should seem impossible or impractical to anyone, I offer myself as ready to make a trial of them in your park or in whatever place shall please your Excellency, to whom I commend myself with all possible humility." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericwkratzer (talk • contribs) 17:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion. I have just put it on the page Leonardo da Vinci's personal life Amandajm (talk) 12:29, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Influence

Having just reverted an edit that included Raphael's name among the most influential artists, (Leonardo and Michelangelo) I have to explain why I did this. Raphael was a lot younger than these guys. He was obviously greatly influenced by both of them, by his teacher Perugino and by his contemporary Andrea del Sarto. His work is an amalgamation of influences. He was a great and wonderful painter of Madonnas, but his sources were Perugino, Leonardo and probably Giovanni Bellini. He was a great portrait painter, amalgamating the skills of Leonardo with those of Ghirlandaio, and again probably Bellini. His rich use of colour (using oil paint) have precedents in Venetian painting.

Raphael did not drive art in a new direction. Leonardo did this, and so did Michelangelo. Amandajm (talk) 07:31, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

He predicted world would end in 4006

According to The Times, "Da Vinci 'predicted world would end in 4006' says Vatican researcher" and clues were to be found in The Last Supper. Should it be mentioned in this article or The Last Supper (Leonardo da Vinci)? --Quest for Truth (talk) 12:46, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Probably not. PiCo (talk) 11:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

There are so many theories about Leonardo that it is impossible to cover them all in this article. Amandajm (talk) 21:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

printable resolution da vinci originals

This seemed to be the only download-able true print resolution copy of any da Vinci I could find, Judas from the Last Supper 46" x 92" at 500dpi. Popped up on a torrent site. The release says to be from zoomready.com, the picture appears to be the restored painting as taken by italian company haltadefinizione. The torrent itself can be found on thepiratebay.org search "da vinci". Available via torrent download, it's 3gb and a legit copy, and according to the site and a wikimedia statement it's public domain. A few other pieces touching the Judas piece are available, the knife 15"x15" and the window 30"x30". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyleontap (talk • contribs) 11:57, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

leonardo da vinci

He was the best artist in his generation. I was fascinated to learn about him in my art class on friday.I want to continue to learn about Leonardo Da Vinci alyah yardan --75.110.114.58 (talk) 14:12, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Alyah, if you click here Italian Renaissance painting, you can find out more about how Leonardo fitted in with other painters of his generation. Amandajm (talk) 14:57, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Heart valve repair

This paragraph has been removed to Science and inventions of Leonardo da Vinci. Amandajm (talk) 13:18, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

leonardo da vinci was fat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.29.37 (talk) 08:54, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Leonardo was tall, strong and athletic. He could bend horseshoes with his bare hands and jump out of a barrel without touching the sides. If Leonardo da Vinci was alive today he would kick Chuck Norris's butt.Amandajm (talk) 10:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

If Leonardo da Vinci was alive today he'd be sort of old. PiCo (talk) 12:08, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Gee whizz, Pip, you're right! I reckon that if Leonardo was alive today, he would probably scare the daylights out of not only Chuck Norris but also Mr T. Easily. Amandajm (talk) 07:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Simply the best. --Davide41 (talk) 09:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Leonardo da Vinci, the Designer

Most design history books and quite of few art history books cite da Vinci as the first designer or first industrial designer, also yall people need to get a life, I think this is quite an important fact missing from the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ID247 (talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

"First designer"? I would be very curious to know of any design or art history book that would make a claim such as that. It presumes that no creative person ever made a plan of the thing they were going to create (or wanted created), before creating it. Your books might say that Leonardo was "primarily employed as a designer". This means that his "main employment" was as a designer. It doesn't mean that he was the "first designer".

Leonardo's main work for Duke Ludovico was designing costumes, entertainments and processions. Later he was employed by a patron who was more interested in strategic and military success. Amandajm (talk) 12:58, 15 September 2010 (UTC)