Talk:Abraham Lincoln

Template:Controversial (history)

FAC battle continues

At User:Peregrine Fisher/ALFA2Archive, if anyone cares. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 06:07, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Categories

This talk page seems to be in about 40 categories. Is that necessary? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 06:10, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Greetings from the Guild of Copyeditors

Hi Everyone! I'm excited about copyediting this article. I've printed it out and I'll start by doing an offline copy edit, so you might not hear anything for me for 12-24 hours. However, then I'll start editing, section-by-section, and it should be pretty quick to upload my edits. Then I'll probably do one more once-over to make sure everything flows together. I'll use the GoCE tag that shows copyediting is in progress, but I'll do it per section, so you know where I'm working. I'm not going to put it on the main article right now, since I'll be working on it off line first, but if you can avoid any major construction over the next day or so, it would be appreciated. Thanks! Livit⇑^Eh?/_What? 12:11, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Wow, frickin awesome! We'll give you some time so as to prevent edit conflicts and wasted work. Thanks again. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 16:45, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Just want to add my word of thanks for your contribution. Carmarg4 (talk) 18:31, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

There was actually a "copyediting conflict" and S Masters (talk started working on this about an hour before I did. Rather than step on his toes, I'll let him proceed, but if you don't hear from him in a couple days, let me know on my talk page. :) Good luck! Livit⇑^Eh?/_What? 03:29, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

A full copyedit has now been completed. Cheers. - S Masters (talk) 01:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the hard work. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 02:05, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Religious and philosophical beliefs

The tenor of this section is somewhat at odds with its main article, and somewhat disappointingly seems to be constructing a narrative of an initially irreligious Lincoln who later found his faith by selectively quoting references to God in his later work, not necessarily the best portrayal of a complex personal situation. I think this section needs to be reworked to more closely follow Abraham Lincoln and religion. I'll volunteer for that if nobody has any objections. Slac speak up! 04:23, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

not a good idea, I fear. the Abraham Lincoln and religion article is full of original research and very old fashioned interpretation and relies too little on the latest scholarship. (I suspect it is based on an old pamphlet somewhere). For example, Guelzo and Carwardine get only one sentence each and there is only a half-sentence on the Second Inaugural. Rjensen (talk) 04:52, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Here's what I was going to say:

If you don't have an agenda, then go for it. It's a controversial subject, so it needs the utmost care, with someone who's read the relevant sources. I have no idea if Abraham Lincoln and religion is weighted correctly, so you can't just go by it blindly. Why don't you mention what you've read, and how it conflicts with what we have now.

I have a feeling that Rjensen is right, though. This article is way better than that one, so discuss here first. You might think about fixing that one instead. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 04:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I added a new opening to the section summarizing what scholars have been saying recently. Rjensen (talk) 07:17, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

This is indeed a difficult one to edit. I reworked the section a couple of weeks ago and probably am at fault for the "tenor" mentioned above. I tried hard to stick with Donald's direct quotes from Lincoln..I have been reading that as I have been editing. Prior to my edit the section seemed to be leaning decidedly in the other direction without Lincoln's quotes, but I am not intimately familiar with the other sources. If they have statements from Lincoln I would personally go with that as well. Carmarg4 (talk) 13:17, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Cutting links

To trim excessive length, I suggest we drop footnotes that are merely links to websites when we already have an article on that topic--like the Lincoln Memorial, say--which has plenty of links. The result will be to cut the number of footnotes and shorten the article, with no loss to the readers.Rjensen (talk) 11:29, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Changes to lead

[1] Generally all right, but I have a few concerns. The "rededicting the nation to freedom. democracy and equality." part might be overly strong without a cite, and has incorrect punctuation. "modest means" to "poor" also changes some meaning, although maybe it matches the body's text better, not sure. And I think I like the previous version of this:

" His tenure in office was largely dedicated to the defeat of the secessionist Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. This led him to exercise unprecedented war powers, including the arrest and detention, without warrant, of thousands of suspected secessionists."

better than this

"As president he concentrated on the military and political dimensions of the war effort, always seeking to reunify the nation after the secession of the eleven Confederate States of America. He vigorously exercised unprecedented war powers,'

I won't revert, becaue Rjensen did this stuff, and how knows way more than me, but I'm concerned on this particular edit. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 04:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate Peregrine's concerns. The "rededicating the nation to freedom. democracy and equality." echoes the Gettysburg Address and reiterates what that section says (I'll make it an exact copy of nationalism, equal rights, liberty and democracy.) . "Modest" sounds like middle class--her was living in a cave for a while in Indiana. I dislike the passive voice in His tenure in office was largely dedicated and This led him to exercise -- we need to use more active verbs--he was an active president. Rjensen (talk) 05:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

"Thousands of Confederate sympathizers"

He used his war powers to ... suspend the writ of habeas corpus, arresting and imprisoning thousands of suspected Confederate sympathizers without warrant.[Neely, p. 253, n. 7.]"

I don't have Neely to hand but I am about 99% sure that this basically the opposite of what he says. It is absolutely true that Lincoln had thousands arrested without warrant, but the overwhelming majority of those arrested were held for desertion, draft evasion, smuggling, fraud, sabotage, and so on – not for being "Confederate sympathizers," and if I remember correctly, this was proven by Neely himself! It should probably be changed to something like, "imprisoning thousands of citizens without warrant, some few for purely political crimes." 174.91.175.225 (talk) 04:36, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Abraham_Lincoln#States_admitted_to_the_Union

This is too small for its own section, but I'm not sure what to do with it. Any ideas? [ Peregrine Fisher (talk) 04:38, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I guess I'd like to merge it with the above section Abraham_Lincoln#Administration.2C_cabinet_and_Supreme_Court_appointments_1861.E2.80.931865, but I can't think of a good section name. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 04:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Moved from article

No refs for this part. I though we used to have refs, maybe I'll look through the history to see what happened to them. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 04:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The ballistic missile submarine Abraham Lincoln (SSBN-602) and the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) were named in his honor. Lincoln has been memorialized in many town, city, and county names,

including the capital of Nebraska.

quotes

"Every man is proud of what he does well; and no man is proud of what he does not do well. With the former, his heart is in his work; and he will do twice as much of it with less fatigue. The latter performs a little imperfectly, looks at it in disgust, turns from it, and imagines himself exceedingly tired. The little he has done, comes to nothing, for want of finishing."— Abraham Lincoln September 30, 1859 in Address before the Wisconsin State Agricultural Society