Talk:St. George Dragons

Fair use rationale for Image:Stgeorge 1988.jpg

Image:Stgeorge 1988.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 11:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:1949gf.jpg

Image:1949gf.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 08:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Internationals - credit where it's due

They best be Internationals who represented while playing at St George I say. So not John Peard or Steve Rogers. -Sticks66 15:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that's how I work it. Only if selected while playing for the club, not before or after. •Florrie•leave a note• 16:43, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Years in InfoBox

Links should be to our NSWRL Season articles , yes ? Is that what we do in the other clubs boxes ? -Sticks66 15:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I was just looking at the Newton article for something or other and noticed the premierships years in the infobox weren't linked. So they should be? Makes sense. •Florrie•leave a note• 16:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Post 1999

Unless you're writing something notable about the continuing St George Dragons Toyota Cup side, then there's no post-1999 data to be added to this article. There's a great article called St. George Illawarra Dragons. That's the club who won the 2010 premiership, that's where you add current season data. -Sticks66 00:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Many media outlets have acknowledge that the club who won the 2010 premiership won it for the first time in 31 years. 2010 minus 31 equals 1979. That then means, we're talking about the same club. So, unless you're ignoring the media outlets, we're talking about the same club who won in both 1979 and 2010. The Illawarra Mercury of all media outlets acknowledged this; given their devout and unquestionable loyalty over the years to the whole, "this is a completely different club" propaganda, I'm actually surprised they acknowledged it. However, fact of the matter stands - this is a 16th premiership for the St George Dragons. Given the nature of the joint venture, I would also like to suggest that this is also the Illawarra Steelers first premiership since their inception in 1981. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.155.242.193 (talk) 01:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

What ? And i suppose last week the Western Suburbs Magpies played in their first major final since 1963 ? Neither the St George Dragons nor the Illawarra Steelers play in the NRL premiership anymore, you idiot. There is a joint venture club called the St George Illawarra Dragons, they started in 1999 and there is a perfectly good article here about that club here , which is the place to record the victories and history of that club-Sticks66 02:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Sadly it's true what he says about the media. I've lost count of how many times I've read about a drought being broken. Illawarra seems to be completely ignored. But I think they're wrong to do that. We don't have to blindly follow the media on everything. I think when the media talks about the drought they're talking more from a (St. George) supporters' perspective than anything else. The club in a sense does still exist as one 'half' of the present day Dragons. I'm still not convinced any mention has to be put into this or the Illawarra Steelers articles, but if it does it should be kept to the absolute barest minimum and have a link to the St. George Illawarra Dragons article. Both this and the Steelers articles are in the past tense "were/was a rugby league football club" and for good reason. We don't really go around updating them with the latest of what's going on at the Dragons. It really makes no sense to record the 2010 premiership on Wikipedia as having been won by three different clubs, regardless of what the Australian rugby league media put out there.--Jeff79 (talk) 03:14, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I recall Andrew Denton's quote about the merger being St George + the Illawarra socks. (at least I think it was Denton) More of a takeover than a merger really..however officially it is a merger.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:39, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The premiership was won by St George Illawarra & should be recorded accordingly. The media talk of 31 years since a premiership may be annoying, but no reason to post what is obviously not true.Doctorhawkes (talk) 04:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

We acknowledge the NRL's "history" despite that being a joint venture . . .

First major final since 1963?? What about 2005?? To get to answer your question, yes! By your logic then, there are two Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles clubs. The one that runs around now, has only won one and that was in 2008. Are you going to edit that Wikipedia article since you must insist on this with St George? That article notes that they have won 7 (with one in 2008), but by your logic this would be wrong. The St George Dragons is one half of the Joint Venture, this was their first in 31 years and therefore they won it in this year being 2010.

Jeff79, I do not blindly follow the media. The newspaper I have quoted (the Illawarra Mercury) has staunchly trumpeted the fact that this a Joint Venture for years and have personally attacked me on some of my actions in following the club i.e. calling for the sacking of a certain coach.

The bottom line is, St George as one half of the Joint Venture won something in 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.155.242.193 (talk) 04:12, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Be careful not to personalize this issue too much. Frankly, anything that's gone on between you and some newspaper has nothing to do with Wikipedia, and its editors have no knowledge or interest in it. Personally I prefer what Matt Cooper said when he said "It's been ten years". The fact is we can all probably find wording to support different points of view (although I doubt any official statistic-oriented sources will be putting 2010 down as anything other than the joint-venture's first premiership). If you really want some mention of the 2010 premiership to appear in this article I suggest you put forth some wording for us to discuss. It should be well-referenced, brief, and should objectively reflect the controversy surrounding it as well. Perhaps something like, "Despite the original St. George Dragons club ceasing to exist since their merger with the Illawarra Steelers in 1999, some in the Australian media still touted the 2010 NRL Premiership (won by St. George Illawarra) as the Dragons' first in 31 years".--Jeff79 (talk) 05:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, thanks at least for trying to talk about it. I have actually posted a link to the newspaper article at the bottom under "sources" as my reasoning for even doing it. To me, they exist as St George, as much as they are the Illawarra Steelers--because it is a joint venture. I am more than happy to have that acknowledged and if people want to acknowledge this as a Steelers premiership too, that's fine. I actually tried to edit the Steelers' page too, for that reason. That's what a joint venture is. How about listing 2010, and say stating that, "The 2010 premiership was won as in a joint venture with the Illawarra Steelers as the St George-Illawarra Dragons."

Actually it's not just the media but even the NRL website is claiming it as the Dragons' 16th premiership:

"It was the club's first premiership since 1979, its 16th overall and its first since as St George Illawarra following the merger with Wollongong's Steelers in 1998."

--Thatsgold (talk) 13:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)