Talk:Civilization V

Inca

Not quite sure how to cite this, but, as mentioned here, the latest (March) issue of Swedish PC Gamer mentions Firaxis including the Quechua language in the game. That pretty much a confirmation for the Inca, isn't it? Xavius, the Satyr Lord (talk) 12:44, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

It's probably best to wait for explicit confirmation before adding it onto the table. I remember there being several leaders mentioned or leaked during the Civilization IV development period that ended up not making it into the final game. bob rulz (talk) 13:00, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Civ V Info Centre

Civ V Info Centre should be allowed as it's a collection of information from previews, GDC articles and confirmed primary source information on the game. The wiki linked to is not advertising anything, it provides information to those wishing to learn what will be available in the game. If Civ V Info Centre is not allowed then neither should wikia's link as it is the same type of external link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.15.62 (talk) 04:23, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

A primary consideration for external links is to sites with information that cannot be included in the Wikipedia article. Is there anything on this site that cannot be added to Wikipedia? That excludes pictures of artwork that are copyright violations, which appears to be a feature of the Civ V Info Centre. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm curious as to how the WP article can use the copyright Civ5 logo directly off Firaxis website (you didn't even bother to change the filename), yet released screenshots (cropped to fit the Info Centre's content better) off the official website (www.civilization5.com) are contravening WP rules. How's that explained? (59.167.199.141 (talk) 23:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC))

Just read the File:Civ5logo.jpg page. You've got a detailed non-free media use rationale as well as licensing information plainly visible there. I think we will add screenshots of the game into this article at some point but similar rationales will have to be written for them too. The Civ V Info Centre also does not contain any mention of the origin, owner or license of the images, making their use questionable. —ZeroOne (talk / @) 13:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Another reason why Civ V Info Centre would not be used is because if all they are doing is repeating primary information then the preferred reference would be who Civ V Info Centre is getting the information from. 198.161.174.222 (talk) 20:30, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, a secondary source is preferable to a primary (follow the links to read why). This is not the problem with Civ V, it is that it is essentially a self-published wiki fan site (see points 1, 11 & 12 on this link). --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:56, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

...So does all this mean that this article can be more similar to the Civ IV article (where the nation details are more...detailed.) The site they got the civ leader info from, the official game site, also includes unique units/buildings as well as abilities. Sorry, but all this official talk here is confusing. TheFedExPope (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Persia

what is with persia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.63.55.114 (talk) 10:34, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Caesar

[1] It's actually Augustus Caesar, Not Julius.24.29.50.195 (talk) 13:46, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I have edited the article accordingly! —ZeroOne (talk / @) 18:27, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Civilization List

For those that are curious about the missing Civs, I did a comparison of those in Civ4 to those in Civ5.

• American
• Arabian
• Aztec
• Chinese
• Egyptian
• English
• French
• German
• Greek
• Incan
• Indian
• Japanese
• Malinese
• Mongolian
• PersianOttoman
• Roman
• Russian
• SpanishSonghai

Everything in Italics is in Civ4 but not in the Civ5 list. Everything in bold is in the Civ5 list but not in Civ4.

So there are currently 2 new civs, and 5 old civs not in the list. I speculate that the two they plan to drop are the Incan Empire and the Malinese Empire. But that is just my own opinion. Zell Faze (talk) 16:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you equated Spain and Songhai on your list, as they're two completely unrelated civs in terms of timeframe, geography, and culture. Songhai is obviously the replacement for the Zulu (which although not a starter civ in Civ IV was in other civs). Anyway, it doesn't matter because despite this wiki article not posting it, almost all the civs are known already through foreign game magazines.

I know it doesn't matter much at this point. But I put the Songhai by the Spanish because of I used a diff tool. Both lists were put in alphabetical order then run through the diff tool. Spanish just happened to be out and Songhai in, and they were both S letters. Zell Faze (talk) 18:51, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

1. America - Washington
2. Arabia - Harun al-Rashid
3. Aztecs - Montezuma
4. China - Wu Zeitan
5. Egypt - Ramesses the great
6. England - Elizabeth
7. France - Napoleon
8. Germany- Bismarck
9. Greece - Alexander
10. India - Ghandi
11. Japan - Oda Nobunaga
12. Ottoman Turks - Suleiman the Magnificent
13. Rome - Augustus Ceaser
14. Russia - Katherine
15. Songhai - Askia

16. Either Spain or Persia
17. Either Iroquois or Inca
18. Either Mongoloia or Siam 16-18 all had conflicting information based on interviews, most likely the game magazine confusing the playable civs and the newly added city-state feature.

19. Babylon - Nebuchadnezzar II as DLC

24.190.34.219 (talk) 15:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The official final list is up at: [2]

24.190.34.219 (talk) 21:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Steam Activated

Civ V is is Steam activated confirmed Here

- Thekidz2237 (talk) 02:23, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Massive Info Dump

I'm going to do a massive information dump. All info comes from this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=355156

It has all its information sourced, so don't start adding Citation Needed tags to my additions, or deleting them. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabretooth (talk • contribs) 07:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

All of its information may be sourced, but you didn't include a single source with your edit. Without any sources, chances are it will get a citation needed, or straight out deleted. Thanks! Fin©™ 11:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Lead designer

Does anyone have info on who is leading the design of this game? It is probably worth mentioning in the article. --Jleon (talk) 01:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Sources in the Civilization Table

Now that the official site has been updated, there's really no need to cite every single leader being mentioned in a random game article. All these obsolete sources do is clutter up the table. I vote that we remove all the sources from the table (except the one for Babylon) and simply include a single citation at the top of the table to the official civ site which includes all the information anyway.24.190.34.219 (talk) 01:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I've added a ref to the table heading by way of a start. Oosh (talk) 07:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I was confused to see both "Notes" and "References" at the end. I looked at a May 6 version and saw that the Babylon note was immediately under the table instead of at the end of the article. Is it possible to revert back to the previous article. (I am very hesitant to revert changes until I know whether there was a rationale for it. I think it is only a matter of courtesy not to delete another editor's work without bringing the matter up on the discussion page.) Vyeh (talk) 16:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree, as the only note is in reference to Babylon it seems more convenient to have it as a footnote to the section rather than an endnote to the article. However, as Direct2Drive and 2K recently confirmed that there will be additional civs as DLC besides Babylon, I think it might actually be best to have Babylon and all future DLC civs in a separate table underneath so at to distinguish what is available in the core game and what is additional content you need to purchase without the need to clutter the table with notes.71.190.182.22 (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Win Condition

I have added a subsection "Win Condition" to the Gameplay section. I have supplied a reference which supports the subsection. There are also other information in the reference, but I thought I would wait for the reaction to my initial edit before I did further edits on the article.

Vyeh (talk) 16:05, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

The Win Condition section was edited to indicate ten policy trees. Does anyone have a source to support that there are ten policy trees instead of six. Vyeh (talk) 11:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Got the Escapist source from the 2k Civilization 5 forum. Vyeh (talk) 15:15, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

The section now outlines other possible types as per the Escapist article. Not sure about Alpha Centauri comparison, as the article itself doesn't mention it. Feels like "original research". Spiritaway5177 (talk) 22:18, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Getting it Right

I notice a LOT of errors throughout the article.... - "entirely new game engine scripted in Lua": the new game engine ALLOWS scripting in Lua. - Unit-stacking: there's three confirmed unit categories - military (military units), civilian (Great People, workers, settlers) and air (planes). You can stack only one unit from each category, so a hex can contain a military unit, civilian and air unit at the same time. - Babylon is also available from Direct2Drive. - No mention of pre-order maps bonus. - "They can be upgraded and made veterans, as in Civilization IV.": who writes this crap? Veterans is a CIV3 concept, Civ4 and Civ5 units are promoted with various promotions giving them new/better unit abilities like healing, stronger strength, more sight etc. - "in Civilization V automatically transform into troop transports when entering ocean squares": when the required tech is researched. - "The Technology Tree has been revamped with a three-way path, each yielding unique benefits.": I would remove this sentence as it's never mentioned in any source. - "Cities, when first built, have a 3-tile radius instead of 2": wrong. Cities have a maximum working radius of 3 only possible after lots of culture growth (claiming of hexes via culture or bought). They don't start with 3. - "Puppets reduce unhappiness": puppets increase unhappiness, but not as much as annexed cities do. - "City-States have their own technology trees": where's the source? I call 'Bull'. - "a break from the Space Race victory": Space Race is still in, or more accurately, Race to Alpha Centauri. - "September 24 in the EU": this is International date, not just EU. - "through retail and the Steam content delivery system": not just Steam, but now D2D. Should read "through retail and online content delivery systems". - Note 1: Babylon is now also available from Direct2Drive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.221.39.5 (talk) 02:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Please feel free to make these edits yourself. Any unsourced information you know to be wrong can freely be deleted, and with unsourced information you are unsure about simply add a fact tag.71.190.182.22 (talk) 23:08, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

• Deleted (for now). Source? - Lua, Tech tree branches, City radius, City state tech tree
• Not added (for now). Source? - Unit-stacking and unit categories, Pre-order maps, (International release date)
• Fixed, with source. - Babylon on D2D, "Veterancy" wording, Space race victory, Steam and D2D
• Unnecessary (too much detail). - Troop transport requiring tech
• That's what the current source says. - Puppet state unhappiness Spiritaway5177 (talk) 02:43, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Puppet states ADD unhappiness, but not as much as annexing: Dennis Shirk (Producer) interview, about halfway down the page. http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64484. Pre-order maps and international release date? I ain't doing all the work for you. Check Steam order pages. Troop transports, one of the E3 vid interviews with Jon Shafer he stressed the point about having to research particular techs to enable and enhance naval troop transportation. You might think it's too much detail, but it's the most critical point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.25.16 (talk) 14:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Also if you read the given source re puppet states, the writer states that the amount of unhappiness from capturing the city is reduced. Capturing a city gives +X unhappiness, making it a puppet gives +(X-some) unhappiness. Still a net increase in unhappiness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.25.16 (talk) 14:37, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Cover Art - Resolution

Is the cover art 'low resolution' and meeting the requirements of the tagged fair-use license? After looking at a random selection of images in the same category I'm not confident that is the case and would suggest it is reduced to one-half or one-third of its current horizontal and vertical dimensions. -Oosh (talk) 10:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I reposted the question at Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions#Civilization_V_cover_art. Vyeh (talk) 14:25, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

No, 1000x1000 pixel image for cover art is well outside what we normally would allow. I've tagged it for reduction. --MASEM (t) 14:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Too big. You can also remove the PC DVD header at the top of the image to save some pixels and bring it into line with the Civ IV image. - X201 (talk) 14:32, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

System Requirements

The minimum and recommended system requirements are backwards on the main page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.130.189.213 (talk) 19:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.130.189.213 (talk) 19:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The revised the minimum requirements from dual core to "Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz or AMD Athlon X2 64 2.0 GHz" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.29.233 (talk) 02:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

External Link to Civilization V Analyst

• Civilization V Analyst

violates WP:FANSITE (point 11). It can only be included if there is consensus (the burden of proving justification for an external link is on the person who wants to include the external link). Vyeh (talk) 08:57, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Another revert of an external link to that site. Vyeh (talk) 21:21, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Map & Tiles

"The game is based on an entirely new game engine with a hexagonal map instead of the square tiles of earlier games in the series." changed to "with hexagonal tiles". The TILES are now hexagonal, not the map. 121.219.50.225 (talk) 11:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

"Units and combat" section

"As they defeat enemy units, units may be either promoted for bonuses or forgo their promotion in lieu of being completely healed." This reads as if the player can either get promoted and get healed or neither, which doesn't seem to make sense. I am guessing that it should read "...forgo their promotion and instead be completely healed." or similar which would indicate that the player must choose between the two alternatives. Someone who is familiar with the gameplay might want to make the change. - TheDaveRoss (talk) 12:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

"Reception"

...should be split into "critical" (i.e. collusive lies) and "player", because there are definitely people out there who bought this game who don't rate it anywhere near "good" or "9 of 10", etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.107.165 (talk) 19:48, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Player reviews aren't considered reliable sources for our purposes, and thus, can't be used. The only possible way they could be included, is if something similar to what happened with StarCraft II were to occur, where a news agency reported on the large number of negative reviews on Amazon.com, and even that was borderline. —Torchiest ^talk/_edits 19:50, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Disagree (with O.P.): individual player reviews are not notable or reliable and should not be included. DP76764 (Talk) 19:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, player reviews are not notable or reliable sources. I'm a wikipedia noob and not the best at sussing out sources, would anyone more useful be able to find a source which verifies the significant amount of player discontent? I very much agree with the first comment that the playerbase is far from united in agreement about the big reviewers' thoughts. One only has to browse all the top scoring or even highly controversial posts on Reddit to realise *people are not happy*. For example, fans new and old are concerned the major online reviewers have next to completely omitted serious bugs and flaws (e.g. overwhelmingly stupid AI, seemingly unnecessary lag). I personally would suggest the idea: the game doesn't adhere to what makes a Civilization game what it is. The trademark Civ 'feel' is absent from this most recent iteration. Many have preordered in the presumption Firaxis & Sid would produce another quality title worthy of the franchise name only to be shocked at what they have got. Furthermore, dare I say, I think the sheer amount of hype surrounding such a big release has scared the major reviewers from being completely objective and telling us how it really is. Stuntaneous (talk) 20:39, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

+ A piece going halfway to what I suggest is strangely missing in reviews: http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?pager.offset=1&cId=3181540&p=1 and an example of a more irate player, but still identifiable among many: http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/forum2/index.php?s=b7ff857900f147d4a6eeca30c20aa89b&showtopic=5185&pid=94340&st=0&#entry94340 Stuntaneous (talk) 21:21, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

G4 did an article on how to mitigate a few of the problems that occur so far as crashes and such go. It would also be possible to cite this page and that Firaxis released a patch only 2 days after launch. Both are signs of the overwhelming amount of problems with the game. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and think it deserves a section about how awesome it is, but at the same time I agree with the IP user; we need to talk about some of the negative criticism the players have brought on the game, especially with stability. Zell Faze (talk) 22:13, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Per DP, player reviews are not notable, reliable or verfiable. Neither are forums. If a review comments on issues, they're ok to include, else, no. Thanks! Fin©™ 22:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, 1up.com is generally a decent source, so that criticism could be mentioned in the Reception section. I know it's a new game in a much loved series (I've been addicted since 1993 and Civ 1) and there's some disappointment in the quality (I've seen several too) of the release. But let's not let that initial emotional response compromise the article here. Give it some time (a few weeks) and see what the professional reviewer come out with. DP76764 (Talk) 00:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Considering Steam has recorded consistently 24 hours a day between 45,000-79,000 players of Civ 5 (direct off their stats page), a few hundred vocal complainers doesn't indicate "significant amount of player discontent". I would actually contend that due to the consistent high numbers (regularly the #1 game being played on the Steam network) that it would indicate the complete opposite, "significant amount of player contentment". 193.221.39.5 (talk) 06:06, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Those numbers mean nothing about player contentment, and trying to draw a conclusion from that information would be original research. The most important thing to realize is that Wikipedia isn't exactly supposed to be the cutting edge of information, and can't report rumors or community sentiment on its own. It's only supposed to collect and report from other sources. Discussions about player happiness or irritation are for forums. —Torchiest ^talk/_edits 12:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with the original poster. Players reviews are not reliable. For every 1 player who has some personal gripe with the game there are a couple hundred others who are happily playing. Better to leave this to the professionals. If the personal gripe has any credibility it will be picked up by a more reliable source. 99.231.248.190 (talk) 18:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

This "a forum post is not notable" is silly. It depends WHO wrote the forum post. I would take the word of a highly respected long standing member of the Civ community over a review by someone who plays any random game and probably has not spent the last 4 years playing just Civ. Seriously. From my observation in the forums there is a definite split in the community with some long standing members on the balance enjoying the new game, and others finding serious deficiencies in it.

The only forum post that'd be notable is one directly from someone who works for the developer (and is posting from an official account). All other posts are not notable, regardless of who wrote them. Thanks! Fin©™ 07:59, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

That someone is a big wheel in a fan forum means less than nothing to us, it's as far away from an RS as you could get. --Cameron Scott (talk) 08:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Steam

The section on the article mentioning reviews from amazon and steam appears to be an incredibly biased segment. Many PC games are now running on Steam, it's not controversial anymore, and definitely does not deserve a controversy heading. Steam certainly does not stream ads onto a PC, it runs in a separate client, and it appears to be a biased and unsupported assertion of opinion. Please point out to me how this is relevant, or else remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.192.4.22 (talk) 17:11, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. It was temporarily added and repeatedly removed. Being Steam delivered is not controversial in the least. The Amazon reviews may eventually deserve a mention though, if they get to the level that was seen with Spore (2008 video game) and have actual real sources discussing them. DP76764 (Talk) 17:25, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Please stop adding the Amazon reviews as negative feedback

You can't interpret statistics you've found and present a case for the game being received badly, because that's original research and isn't how Wikipedia works. We don't come up with new information here, we simply present information given to us by outside, reliable sources. This isn't a case of people wanting to silence any criticism, it's a case of criticism not being sourced correctly. As explained above, a news report talking about negative user reaction to the game would be suitable. I've tried to find one, but no news outlets seem particularly moved by the issue (suggesting that it probably isn't notable enough). Remember, Wikipedia isn't your soapbox and you don't have a right to contribute any content you like; it has to be within the framework of site's rules. Wenttomowameadow (talk) 11:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Please note that the anonymous editor's edits are very consistent with Amazon's reviews - thus I have every reason to believe they are made in good faith, and we should make every effort to treat these editor's accordingly. Of course, you are 100% correct regarding the importance of reliable sources. To that end, we should either compile (or more likely, point to) a list of sources typically considered reliable for video game reviews. Doing so will help these editors develop this article. Rklawton (talk) 12:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The edits have been coming from multiple accounts, and occasionally coupled with accusations about corporate shills (see this edit, for example). It's not a simple mistake or misunderstanding, they've had it explained to them time and again, and they've only responded with accusations. They've purposely edited a note in the article to reflect their unfounded claims about commercial interest in the article. I'd say that it's time to stop treating them as good faith edits at this point. Wenttomowameadow (talk) 12:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, the population of reviewers giving poor reviews may compare poorly compared to the total amount of gamers that enjoy the game. In other words, customer reviews are flawed because they're more likely to give a review if they dislike the game than someone who enjoys the game, so it skews results in favour of the negative position. That and the continual Steam-bashing that's going on. --Topperfalkon (talk) 13:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Just a heads up. This article has a discussion on the COI page and has also been listed at WP:RPP - X201 (talk) 14:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm aware one of the commenters here was responsible for the RPP though--Topperfalkon (talk) 14:36, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I just want to cement a consensus on this. No. No player reviews. No amazon reviews, which for all we know were part of a coordinated campaign by a minority of players who have some personal gripe with the game. If there's any credibility to their complaints they will be picked up in reliable sources. 99.231.248.190 (talk) 18:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Reliable sources

Amazon isn't a reliable source. It is a collection of individual reviews (raw data) that requires interpretation (original research) and we don't do that here in Wikipedia (per above). Rklawton (talk) 15:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Seconded. Please don't add Amazon reviews details, they'll just get removed. --Topperfalkon (talk) 16:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Thirded. And while we're at it, don't give WP:UNDUE weight to criticisms in reviews that call it a great game. 99.231.248.190 (talk) 18:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Reviews

I did a quick Internet search for game reviews and found several both positive and negative that an editor could easily add to this article for the benefit of all. Those with a sincere interest in improving this article will do so. Rklawton (talk) 15:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Then why keep them a secret? I was unable to find an overtly negative review from a reliable source, so please share your search string or the reviews you found. Wenttomowameadow (talk) 16:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Units

"Champion Cavalry" should be "Companion Cavalry" For some reason, I can't edit this in. Black Fatalis (talk) 22:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

That's because the article is protected so that only established editors can make changes. I have just made the change. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Is it necessary or misleading to hotlink all the in-game abilities?

I do not see why the in-game units, buildings, and player abilities should be made so that clicking them takes you to an article about something related to whatever the name of the unit is. A few examples - "Achaemenid Legacy" is an advantage the player gets if they choose a particular country to play as, where in-game bonuses last longer in some situations. Clicking it takes you to the article about the Achaemenid Empire, which has nothing to do with the actual gameplay. In many cases, the article linked is to a specific word that is part of the name of a gameplay feature (like the link to Mosque under "Mud Pyramid Mosque" or for Rome under "The Glory of Rome") or to articles related to the subject ("Mandekalu Cavalry" links to "Military history of the Mali Empire").

In many of these cases these pages are already linked in the article, if a person is still wondering what "Rome" means when they read "The Glory of Rome" on the table listing the different special abilities of players who choose the Roman side, they probably don't know how to click links.

Someone who is reading about the game already knows that it is based on history, and is probably interested in what these abilities do and how the different military units vary from each other in the game. It seems like adding links for the sake of having more links, is there some kind of advantage to pages that have practically every word linked? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.155.79.79 (talk) 15:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

It is over-zealous linking IMO, and I agree that they should be removed. Wenttomowameadow (talk) 15:09, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah some of it really resembles original research because there is no obvious link to a real world concept. Some of them are just cool names for a bonus. I would agree with removing most if not all of them. 99.231.248.190 (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I actually like the links. Some of them might be on the edge of wp:Easter egg, but I still find them very useful as to inform about the historical inspiration for the unique abilities and units given to the various civilizations in this game. I have not been able to find any where I think it would be reasonable to dispute the accuracy of the link.TheFreeloader (talk) 22:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Post-Release Reviews

I've looked at reviews from the past week or so, since the game has come out.

• http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/8157-Stolen-Pixels-230-The-History-of-Civilization-Part-1
• http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/tv/103663999.html?elr=KArksD:aDyaEP:kD:aUt:aDyaEP:kD:aUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
• http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/09/community-review-civilization-v/
• http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=266801
• http://www.helium.com/items/1963387-game-reviews-civilization-v-civ-v
• http://techland.com/2010/09/29/civilization-v-a-fun-way-to-rule-the-world/
• http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Civilization-V-Rules-PC-Game-World/story.xhtml?story_id=12300DYLKSJC
• http://www.nwcn.com/news/entertainment/The-Gaming-Guru-Review-iSid-Meiers-Civilization-Vi-104107763.html

I haven't found much criticism at all. Whatever the gripes a few people have with the game (for sure if your system can't actually run the game you're going to have a lot more free time to post on forums and put reviews into amazon) they're not really representative of the overall experience. The worst criticisms I could find were that the AI does silly things, embedded in otherwise glowing reviews. 99.231.248.190 (talk) 18:25, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Having spent hours and hours on the forums, I can tell you that this game has not been well received. These game sites that rated this game 9.4 out of 10 haven't even played the game long enough to judge it when the reviews were released. This is just a rubber stamp advertisement and nothing more. This article needs to be more balanced. A lot of Civilisation 4 fans were upset with this game because it removed the bulk of what they liked about the game. Please find some negative reviews to counterbalance this one sidedness.

Edit request from Christian.Oberndorfer, 3 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

following information should be added to the section "reception of Civlizition 5":

Consumers reception of the game has been less favorable though. Reviewers at Amazon.com give the game an average rating of 2,5 stars out of 5, with the "1 star" being the most frequent rating

here is the reference/link to Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Civilization-V-Pc/dp/B0038TT8QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286109493&sr=8-1

Christian.Oberndorfer (talk) 12:39, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Amazon reviews are not consider a reliable source (see WP:RS for more on what we consider reliable sources) and we would not add such material to the article. --Cameron Scott (talk) 12:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Note that the article is semi-protected because people kept adding this exact information in and trying to use Amazon as a source, so you're definitely not going to be able to get this added, and it will be removed immediately if you add it after the article is no longer protected. If you can find a suitable source (see Cameron Scott's message above) that mentions the issues players have with the game then please post it here and we'll add it to the article. Unfortunately the media outlets that are acceptable sources for Wikipedia haven't covered this issue which is why there is little negative feedback on this article. We can't go interpreting data from Amazon reviews and presenting it as fact as that would be against the core principles of Wikipedia. I would encourage you to go looking for a review from a good reviewer (a mainstream games magazine or media outlet, not community-based or amateur publications), but I understand (from trying to find one myself) that it's difficult to find any (this is another reason why we shouldn't be drawing conclusions from the Amazon figures; the scores suggest a skew brought on from annoyed Civ veterans dumping their anger in one place and we would be adding our own—possibly incorrect—original research). Wenttomowameadow (talk) 14:51, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Completely agree with both of the above. We have to remember that Wikipedia isn't the end all be all of information on the web. It's a good starting point for research. That's what this article is: a starting point. For people that want to find more information, or information about non-professional reviews, they can go elsewhere. —Torchiest ^talk/_edits 16:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: Per the above comments, which the page history and WP:RS back up. elektrikSHOOS 16:51, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

ATI Crossfire and Nvidia SLI Problems

This game will not work with ATI Crossfire or Nvidia SLI. Either of these two major graphics makers technologies for using more than one video card do not work on this game. This has been confirmed by users of both graphics card companies. Can someone please find a reference to site this in the article? Flickering squares appear in the game when it is used.

Even though ATI Crossfire does not work on this, the Crossfire logo will still appear if it's turned on in ATI catalyst.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.168.128 (talk) 00:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Even if you can find a good source for this information, it sounds like unnecessary miscellany. It's annoying for users, but far too specific an issue for Wikipedia. If it made waves (media coverage) then it would be worth including, and we'd have sources for it to boot. Wenttomowameadow (talk) 00:27, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I totally disagree with the previous statement here. People who play a lot of games invest heavily in their computers video card capabilities. We're talking about $500-1000 of equipment. Most of the brand name games today support crossfire. This program uses a huge amount of the video card, and yet will not let you hook up two and share the load. There is a technical problem that causes black squares to appear all over the game when you try to use either crossfire or SLI. This is not a minor issue. Anyone purchasing this game will want to know this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.161.187 (talk) 17:37, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't here to reflect people's opinions. See Wikipedia:Notability. Wenttomowameadow (talk) 17:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

City-State List

Should we put a City-State List.

Another Editor took it away, but said to look for Consensus here

Please states your opinon with Add or Don't Add

Add A city state list is no more a game guide than a civ list. OttomanJackson User:OttomanJackson 15:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't Add: It's excessive detail to have a precise list. We might as well add a list of every single unit and building if we're going to add this. The remaining prose paragraph covers the topic adequately. DP76764 (Talk) 15:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Yep. I was the one who removed it, per WP:GAMEGUIDE. Thanks! Fin©™ 15:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)