Talk:Autoimmune disease

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Merger

Alright. The merger tag directs here, so let's discuss it here.

I don't support a merger, for the important reason I mention on the Talk:Autoimmunity page, that not all autoimmunity is pathologic.

I would support relocating discussion of more disease-relevant topics to the Autoimmune Disease page from Autoimmunity, including the sections discussing Genetic Factors, Pathogenesis, Classification, Diagnosis, and Treatments. However, I would propose leaving general theoretical understanding of autoimmunity for the Autoimmunity page - leaving this page more clinical, and that page closer to theoretical.

At the same time, I would have to propose going back to the old separate list page for Autoimmune Diseases, since the comprehensive list itself is enormous, and includes many speculative associations in the current literature. The current proposals on this Talk page will probably continue indefinitely, leaving such a listing enormous - which is what it looked like before being merged into this page.

All opposed? Thoughts? Disagreements? Agreements? Jbarin (talk) 10:08, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I've put a basic draft format of these proposed changes on my Userpages: User:Jbarin/Autoimmune_Disease_draft, User:Jbarin/Autoimmunity draft, and User:Jbarin/List of Autoimmune Diseases draft

Old text

Removed passage:

some people view them as instances of diseases of affluence.

Who specifically an on what grounds ? Any references ?

____ Here are some references:

[1]

[2]

[3]

These are from a range of sources. Obesity is seen as contributing to diabetes and arthritis. Also the mechanisms of autoimune diseaeses is not well understood, whereas communicable diseases are.

For all of these reasons, I think it is reasonable to say that there are some who view auto immune diseases as examples of diseases of affluence. However, neither type is well understood. Maybe we need a new division of development medicine?

I would appreciate further views on this.

TonyClarke 01:28, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

____

Two points: 1. autoimmune diseases are on the rise. (Maybe because people are being cured of other stuff, and maybe just better diagnostics AMONG THE AFFLUENT) 2. Autoimmune diseases are more common under more "hygenic" conditions, ie too clean. Somehow, not being exposed to some agent in nature leads the immune system to react to self. (Sorry that's not coherent.) This was told to me by an autoimmune specialist; I'm sure I;ll find a reference if I get around to looking for it. 67.124.100.215 04:16, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that sorta ties in with allergy and the hygiene thingie. See Allergy#The hygiene hypothesis. Alex.tan 10:49, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, good point. Anyway, here's a reference to hygiene hypothesis and MS, with further references. http://scienceweek.com/2005/sw050401-4.htm GangofOne 00:35, 30 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case anyone ever reads this Talk page: Obesity contributes to Type 2 (non-immune-mediated) diabetes and osteoarthritis. "Worn-out pancreas from eating more than you need" and "worn-out joints from carrying all that weight" are not generally considered autoimmune diseases. 70.137.153.32 23:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Redirecting content to Autoimmunity

I'm going to bring this up for discussion here, and in the Talk:Autoimmunity page before setting to it. It's occurred to me that there's no discussion of the epidemiology of autoimmunity on that page, and that the discussion of it here actually works much better over there. So barring substantive objection, and rather than duplicate content, I'm going to relocate pretty much the entire introductory text from this article to the main Autoimmunity article. All in favor? Opposed? Jbarin 08:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I sure from an autoimmune disease called Polymyositis

I sure frokm an autoimmune disease called polymyositis. I do not see it here in thw autoimmune disease listings.

The Muscular Dsytrphy Assosication has it listed on there webite with a very good explanation of it as well.

Adding a bit more information?

Does anyone mind if we expand the table of accepted autoimmune conditions to include the type of immune reaction, where known? I envision something that looks like this:

Name	MeSH?	ICD-10	Type	Description
Ankylosing spondylitis	yes	M08.1, M45.	B cell	is a chronic, painful, progressive inflammatory arthritis primarily affecting spine and sacroiliac joints, causing eventual fusion of the spine.
Aplastic anemia	no	D60	T8 cell	is often caused by an autoimmune attack on the bone marrow.
Celiac disease	no	K90.0	T8 cell, with antibody component	is a disease characterized by chronic inflammation of the proximal portion of the small intestine caused by exposure to certain dietary gluten proteins.
Crohn's disease	no	K50	T cell	is a form of inflammatory bowel disease characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract. Major symptoms include abdominal pain and diarrhea. There is also a theory that Crohn's Disease is an infectious disease caused by Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis.
Goodpasture's syndrome	yes	M31.0	B cell	is a disease characterised by rapid destruction of the kidneys and haemorrhaging of the lungs through autoimmune reaction against an antigen found in both organs.
Graves' disease	yes	E05.0	B cell	is the most common form of hyperthyroidism, and is caused by anti-thyroid antibodies that have the effect of stimulating (agonist) the thyroid into overproduction of thyroid hormone.

and so forth. Knowing something about the part of the immune system involved has implications for treatment. (For example, B cell diseases should be treatable with anti-B-cell rituximab.)

Or would it be better to create a couple of new list pages: List of B cell-mediated autoimmune diseases and List of T cell-mediated autoimmune diseases? 70.137.153.32 23:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think your suggestion to add a new column is a good one, though I'd encourage you to include references for the type wherever possible. It appears that you're knowledgeable about the subject, but new to Wikipedia, so if you need help, an overview on citation is available at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(medicine-related_articles)#Citing_medical_sources. And if you need any assistance, feel free to ask at my talk page. --Arcadian 00:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While Myositis is a rare autoimmune disease, I think it should be included on the list. There are several forms of this disease - polyomyositis, dermatomyositis, IBM and juvenile dermatomyositis. The main symptoms are muscle weakness and extreme fatigue. In the dermatomyositis form the immune system attacks both the skin and the muscles (in some cases, this includes the lung and the heart). Because the disease is so rare, many doctors are unfamiliar with the disease and diagnosis can take a significant amount of time. In my case, I was lucky, I was able to go the National Institute of Health and Johns Hopkins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.55.228.107 (talk) 23:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should include what body part is attacked and if known what pathogen or toxin is responsible for the immune response. I dont know if we need a complete description or any of that other scientific information you suggested, this is for memeber of the public npot doctors or scienitsts, they can look on the specific pages for that informaiton. Name of diease, part of body attacke, antigen and pathogen/ toxin responsible e, maybe sensityivy if this has some clinical bearing but this would have to be explained i,e. severity of disease. Maybe prevalnce information would be good. 1 in a million etc and if location specific then this too. --190.148.39.164 (talk) 19:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That seems like it would be more appropriate for individual pages for each disease. This article is already threatening (again) to devolve into just another list, with little to no prosaic treatment of useful information. Jbarin (talk) 09:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Optic neuritis

Is this really considered an A.I. disease? Or even a distinct disease? Inclusion in "confirmed" list seems most dubious....io_editor (talk) 03:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Those conditions without sources should be removed, or at least bumped down. --Arcadian (talk) 20:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted it. Of the others, [aplastic anemia] should definitely be removed or demoted, not sure which way to go?....io_editor (talk) 01:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

mistake

Warm autoimmune hemolytic anemia as it is said on page for this disease is IgG conducted sometimes IgA, IgM antibody is used in cold autoimmune hemolytic anemia.Rakamijan (talk) 00:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disease causation

"Autoimmune diseases are a major cause of immune-mediated diseases." If you follow the link to immune-mediated diseases, it says that autoimmune disease are a subset of immune-mediated diseases. So the statement is like saying "green widgets are a major cause of widgets." That's hard to fathom. Unfree (talk) 22:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that autoimmune diseases are certainly a subset of immune mediated diseases. Type 1 hypersensitivity is hardly an autoimmune disease but is certainly an immune mediated disease.

124.168.94.64 (talk) 03:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple Sclerosis

Don't see how it MS meets the Milgrom/Witebsky criteria for being classified an autoimmune disease.

Great that you have a reference for hormone levels affecting its progression but without establishing it as autoimmune it hardly seems relevant. 124.168.94.64 (talk) 03:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The text (Hormone levels have been shown to affect the severity of some autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis) is not relevant. In nearly one year no defense has been made. I have removed it.--Juansempere (talk) 12:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It was written that MAG is identified as MS molecular target, which is false. I have moved MS from "Confirmed" to "Suspected", adding a reference to an article that explains the molecular complexity of the immune response. --Juansempere (talk) 11:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's no link from the MS listing. We can debate ad nauseum about the validity of labelling individual diseases as autoimmune, MS is probably one of the more popular examples. It's probably going to be more efficient if we agree on a single (or very limited) secondary sources -- there's plenty of non-consensus throughout the field, which is clearly impacting this article. Jbarin (talk) 21:00, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Autoimmune disease

It is innapropiate from my point of view to restrict autoimmune diseases to the hard core criteria like those used here. The article seems to have been based on this list and later other stuff were added with difference sources. The source is clear as to what it considers as autoimmune, which is: Disorders that are characterized by the production of antibodies that react with host tissues or immune effector cells that are autoreactive to endogenous peptides. The second part of this definition seems to give place to inflammatory diseases without a known autoantibody, but the list fall short. From the same line, the Milgrom-Witebsky criteria is too problematic in the context of this article intended for the general public.

For those reasons, I believe the list should include 'disease which is generally believed to be caused by an autoimmune reaction.' It is much less restrictive and is in the same line, which will include inflammatory diseases without directly known autoantibodies or 'proof' of direct result from cell injuries caused by immune attack. Besides, sometimes the association found between an anti-body and a disease does not mean the antibody is responsable of the disease. Hashimoto encephalopathy is not caused by anti-thyroid antibodies, neither is Crohn caused by anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Those may be findings confirming diagnosis but this shows the difficulty in classifying autoimmune only the conditions which are associated with certain antibodies. Even in the cases of Lupus, high titer for antinuclear antibody does not mean that those antibodies cause the disease. They are simply lab findings.

I took the task to rewrite and expend the article, I'll be working on it here, it would help to have some input from editors on the appopriare definition and if they are in agreement.

Also, mixing suspected autoimmunity like in the case of schizophrenia with conditions which are generally agreed to be autoimmune is not a good idea. Both suspected and generaly recognized should have their independent list. Any comment? Inductionheating (talk) 06:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

CROHNS

I'm curious I did not see Chrohns on the list. In my reading at the CCFA website they seem to saying the disease is auto-immune with a strong link to some of the same genetic markers noted in the article. I'd like to see it added I'm not a doctor just a 40 year chronie survivor. WarLord (talk) 08:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I notice that you tie autoimmunity to hypersensitivity. Not all diseases frequently listed as autoimmune show hypersensitivity. There is another major cause for the immune system to attack healthy cells: poor targeting. How do you see this? Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 18:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is for anyone who has any questions or doubts...

Anyone who has any questions or doubts about the validity of the diseases listed as accepted autoimmune disorders should check with The American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association at the following link: [4].

They are one of the official authorities on the matter, their research is posted from the researchers and doctors as it is being done, and have they have a complete list of accepted diseases, which is updated as their understanding of them changes.

You can get information from them, regular updates, participate in surveys - which I strongly encourage you to do, especially if you have more than one member in your family with an autoimmune disorder, because every piece of information gathered helps lead to a greater understanding of how these diseases work.

It's not just environmental, it's not just genetic, it's not just anything; it's a combination of all that's going on, and as our world is accelerating and everything is becoming so much more accessible so much faster and things are in contact in ways they never have been before, it is going to take time and contribution on everyone's part to piece the puzzle together.

For the AARDA full list of autoimmune diseases (as of 4-21-2009), click the following link: [5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.203.28.237 (talk) 06:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about Pyoderma Gangrenosum?

After reading the included list of autoimmune diseases, I noted the omission of Pyoderma gangrenosum. As a person and physician who has had this condition in addition to Crohn's and Psoriasis, I can attest to it's membership within this group. I don't want to edit the page personally but simply suggest its inclusion in the list of disorders since it typically only responds to those treatments like TNF inhibitors and immune system suppressors prescribed for other major autoimmune disorders. I can't currently quote it's prevalence among the population. Reb3csc (talk) 02:41, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Systemic lupus

What about lupus? Surely this is the worst form of autoimmune disease, since the immune system can affect the body in general? I am not a qualified medical doctor so I would not like to alter the article, but if any one more medically informed than me can help here, that would be appreciated. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's on the list. Jbarin (talk) 09:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please add Celiac Disease

Please add Celiac Disease to the list of autoimmune diseases. Apparently it is the only autoimmune disease for which the trigger is known, i.e. gluten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.75.104.113 (talk) 13:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How about adding Adhesive Capsulitis (Frozen Shoulder)and Superior Limbic Karatoconjunctivitis (SLK) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.251.233 (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]