Talk:Keffiyeh

Revert

Reverted edit by 212.2.174.96 to remove the following:

The significance of the Keffiyeh, as worn by Arafat, was symbolic of his view that the entire area of the State of Israel (from the river to the sea) should become a state called Palestine. The way in which it was worn, draped over his right shoulder in the shape of the map of Israel, made it unnecessary for him to actually vocalise this. This became especially important as he engaged in (supposed) peace talks."

Reasons: (1) a long way from NPOV! (2) seems pretty fanciful and unsubstantiated - is it actually known that Arafat intended to send any such message through his clothing?; (3) lifted from web sources so unreliable they refer to the wrong shoulder (though 212.2.174.96 corrected left to right); (4) probably more relevant to Arafat than keffiyeh. Harry 22:00, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I do remember someone pointing it out in a news report a long time ago. So there's something to it (although it could just be someone's interpreattion).

--Havermayer 03:48, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This to me sounds awfully silly. Yes, there are illustrations of Arafat with his keffiyeh shaped into Israel plus the territories. However, lacking any actual evidence of this having been Arafat's intent, this is just inflammatory POV.

If one wishes to investigate the symbolism of the keffiyeh, I believe that it would be best to explore the symbolism of its color, rather than the shape. If I am not mistaken, the keffiyeh in Arab society is that the black-and-white one is considered a "commoner's" keffiyeh, as opposed to the red-and-white version which is the "royal" keffiyeh. In the Palestinian context, the black-and-white keffiyeh was adopted as a national symbol because of Fatah/PLO's identification with Nasser's populism, in contrast to the aristocracy and monarchy of Jordan (where red keffiyehs are much more common). --Daniel 06:34, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

I've looked for symbolism of color in Iraq, and as far as I have seen, the only colors usually worn are red-and-white checker and black-and-white checker, and those are worn by all classes of Iraqis. I can't recall having seen any of the solid white keffiyeh, but it seems like a lot of sheikh-looking gentlemen prefer red-checker whereas workers wear black-checker more often. So, if the black is "commoner's" color and red is "royal", I doubt it's a distinction that holds a whole lot of weight here. Also, other white-and-color checker variations exist, but mostly in gift shops on bases for American GIs. Cyprein 12:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Honest to goodness, folks, I lived in the Middle East for almost a decade and never heard any of this "symbolism." They have been red and/or black for umpteen generations, and I think it is just a matter of personal preference. It IS, however, or at least was, a symbol of Palestinian nationalism when worn in that context, true. Amity150 03:31, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Different spellings?

Some people call it like kaffiyeh, others kuffiyeh its wierd

The word is Template:Lang-ar, which I would transliterate as kūfīyä. However, there are a few different pronunciations and spellings of this word. --Gareth Hughes 15:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I made a bunch of redirects for various transliterated spellings (e.g., Kuffiyah) and for synonyms (such as smagh) so that they lead here. Here is a list of the current re-directs. I ask that folks who speak Arabic check them out, and make sure that they're not actually totally different words:

• Ghutra
• Kaffiya
• Kaffiyah
• Kaffiye
• Kaffiyeh
• Kafieh
• Keffiya
• Keffeyah
• Keffiyah
• Kefiyeh
• Kuffiya
• Kuffiyah
• Kuffiyeh
• Kufiyah
• Kufiyeh
• Kufiyyeh
• Kufiya
• Shmagh
• Smagh

My thanks in advance. --Daniel 23:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Photos

The article mentions keffiyeh being worn by western troops. A picture of that would be helpful but I can't find one online that isn't copyrighted. Does anyone know of one that would be suitable? hdstubbs Oct. 25, 2005

While it may not be much of a lead, perhaps one of the American military's sites have a few public-domain photos? --Daniel 23:12, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm a Marine coming home from Iraq soon, I've got a few pictures of me and my buddies in them, in the "muj wrap" method. I'll upload them when I get back to the states. 23 March 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.76.243.196 (talk) 11:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

HAMAS Color

Is anyone sure that the color of the keffiyeh is symbolic within HAMAS? I have seen multiple photos of HAMAS activists with both black and red keffiyehs, including Rantissi, and I cannot find one of any HAMAS militant wearing a green one. HAMAS seems to favor ski masks with green headbands. That being said, PFLP and DFLP seem to perfer red to anything else. Descendall 07:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I can't be too sure about keffiyeh color being too important within Hamas. In Palestine, the black-and-white keffiyeh is a symbol of Palestinian nationalism in general; green is the color of Hamas in particular. The predominance of the black-and-white keffiyeh (even among Hamas) is a testament to the hegemonic position of PLO-Fatah and Arafat. The green-and-white keffiyeh may then be thought of as a "hybrid" symbol - a way for Hamas to state both their Islamist and Palestinian nationalist credentials. But as you hint, the headband is the defining symbol of Hamas.

On the headbands of which you speak, they are (to my knowledge) a mostly Islamist phenomenon that took hold as Islamist Hezbollah came to be viewed as the force that defeated the Israeli and U.S. forces in Lebanon in the 80s (contemporary to the First Intifada and the emergence of Hamas as an independent force).

As for the red-and-white keffiyeh, it's likely that Rantissi (and others in Hamas) may get them through their many travels (both voluntary and involuntary) throughout the Arab Middle East (Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc.) That said, I wouldn't categorize this as a symbol of Hamas.

As for the ski-masks, I am not quite sure you can count that as a symbol of Hamas, as it's probably true that all armed militant groups (including the rival Fatah loyalist Tanzim and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) wear them for utilitarian purposes, i.e., not getting one's face photographed for some intelligence dossier, that goes well beyond the Palestinian-Israeli conflict (as can be illustrated by the wearing of ski-masks by both the Republican and Loyalist forces in Northern Ireland) --Daniel 20:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The colour of a keffiyeh does have meaning, but it is essentially a personal choice. The black-and-white keffiyeh often symbolizes Palestinian nationalism, and often specifically suggests links to Yasser Arafat. However, it need not mean any of these things: a Syrian farmer might wear it because he prefers the colour. A HAMAS leader might choose not to wear black-and-white because it is so symbolic of Arafat. As green is the predominant colour of Sunni Islam, it might be used in a keffiyeh to suggest a more religious viewpoint. However, I beleive that this fashion is relatively new. --Gareth Hughes 13:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe in addition to what is written in the article about either RED or BLACK is that the White and Red is Arabian and the White and Black is Palestinian. Maybe this can be added into the article? Robert C Prenic (talk) 10:53, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it incorrect to say that the red and white keffiyeh was historically belonging to the PFLP, being that it still symbolizes them? Green is more commonly associated with Hamas, and red with PFLP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.133.20 (talk) 21:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Use without political significance

The article states that westerners "who may be disinterested in either politics or the military" wear the keffiyeh and that in "the United States, the black-and-white keffiyeh has become a youth fashion accessory... with little symbolic value." Is this actually true? I think that the vast, vast majority of westerners who wear the keffiyeh do so out of solidarity with the Palestinians or the Iraqis. It would certainly be odd for someone who is apethtic, or a Zionist, to don a keffiyeh. Descendall 07:50, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

It may be "odd" but I have indeed seen this phenomenon here in NYC (see the Village Voice article in the external links section), especially as hipsters have taken to living in/partying in Brooklyn, where there's also a fair amount of importers trading in Arab arts and crafts. I'm sure that it's probably a wider phenomenon, as with the examples given by Garzo of Germany and other European nations can attest.

It's important also to remember that it's the black-and-white keffiyeh that is typically associated with Palestine and the Intifada. There are many other styles that I've seen being sold - gold-and-black ones, for instance - that people simply buy because they're fashionable multi-culti chic, and have less of an associations with Palestine (or the Arab Middle East for that matter).

This would be far from the first cultural appropriation that went from political-to-apolitical. Just think of dreadlocks - they went from being a sign of Rastafarianism's pan-Africanist bent, to being associated with Bob Marley-era reggae, to a sign of Sepultura's embrace of their "roots", to becoming a favored hairstyle within (the mostly white and suburban) American metal scene. Who today thinks that Jonathan Davis is going back to Africa?

As odd as the apolitical wearing of keffiyeh may be, don't you think that it's even odder that American soldiers are wearing it? Even if it's a half-hearted effort to win over the Iraqi population by "going native"?

Or to put it more succinctly: fashion is weird. --Daniel 20:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The source for this information was de:Kufiya#Kritik an der Kufiya (sv:Palestinasjal applies all sorts of odd activist colour coding). I think the wearing of the keffiyeh as a scarf is more common in northern Europe than elsewhere, and it has become a youth fashion. This doesn't mean to say that it is worn without political sentiment, but that it has become fashion driven. I believe the use of the keffiyeh was adopted by British soldiers due to its practicality and adaptability rather than for any political statement. I also believe that British units had been using it long before either attacks on Iraq, and it was only subsequently adopted by US soldiers. --Gareth Hughes 14:21, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

When it comes to Sweden, the only Western place I have extensive keffiyeh experience with, I very much agree with you Gareth. There is no mistake that the wearing of the keffiyeh is fashion-driven, they can be seen more or less everywhere and are frequently sold at markets, festivals and in some cases ordinary clothing stores. To a certain extent it is just pure a-political fashion using political symbols,[1] but in my experience - and I think for once that I dare say that more or less every Swede will agree with me - it denotes a political connection. This connection is not necessarily primarily some form of solidarity with the Palestinians, it can also denote some general or specific form of "radicalism", such as anarchism, radicalfeminism, veganism, etc. In other words, it is a fashion-item, but it is a fashion-item with very strong political values, and it would be surprising to see for example a strong Christian Democrat wearing the keffiyeh even if she does very strongly soldaridise with the Palestinians. I think this political division has slowly been easing up a bit over the years, but it is still very firmly a primarily radical political symbol. --kissekatt 06:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I would agree that the wearing of a Keffiyeh in the west is at the very least semi-political. It tends not to have been less of a fashion item but a symbol of solidarity with the intifada. Even if it is just a fashion item for some it has political roots. Euand 15:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I've seen lots of young non-Arabs wearing the black and white and red and white keffiyeh. Obviously, I can't be sure of the politics of complete strangers, but many of them are pretty ordinary commuters who don't seem to be political activists. I think it's just another fad. 80.43.99.7 16:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I'v worn many of these as scarf. They are big colourfull and of natural material, they also suit against identification through fotographs at some moments. I'm pretty well aware for other people they appear political. And i don't dislike that, but the real reason i always wore them is they are just the most comfortable scarf regularly available, especially outside.(it is not in the article that they are the most common scarf of any kind on many markets)another interesting detail is how the war on terror was the first thing to influence the retail of these scarfs.. but after some searching they proved still available on the dutch market.77.248.56.242 10:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, in Britain their are thousands of teenagers (wearing skin tight trousers like this guy pretty much (from this article), slanted cut fringes with masses of hair on top (what style or statment is this????)) wearing the Keffiyeh around their necks. They havn't got a clue about the Palestinian struggle, they wear it as something called a 'Rock Scarf' [2] - I declare that everytime I see one I will speak to them about it. Its crazy in Britain, everywhere, even in small villages - these people have no clue. Is it just these types of teenagers (as described above) in Britain or is this all over. Also, what style is that that they dress?

Are Hipsters what I am seeing everyday? Robert C Prenic 19:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

From Kufiyya

Copied from Kufiyya article (now a redirect to this article)

A kufiyya is a square head scarf worn by men in many parts of the Middle East, often adorned with a red and white, or black and white checked pattern.

It is also popular among sections of the anti-war and Anti-globalization movements often being seen on demonstrations. In this context it is worn to express solidarity with the palestinians involved in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
--JK the unwise 10:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Not a symbole of Palestinian Nationalism in the 30's.

Someone has written that the scarf was used as a symbole of palestinian nationalism in the 1930's. This is total bogus. There were no susch thing back den. The arabs refused to call themselfs arabs, it was a SIONIST invention! They considered themselfs, South-Syrians. It was after 1967 taht they invented a national identity to get support from the rrst of the world, and as stupid and naive as we liberal westeners are, we believed in them... /Carolus

Oh dear - I see you haven't read many Palestinian newspapers from the 1920's, then. If you're interested in learning a bit of the real story, Palestinian would be a good article to read (if it hasn't degenerated into some edit war since.) - Mustafaa 13:50, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it has. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.207.165.116 (talk) 21:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Uhhhh....there was for certain Palestinian nationalism from roughly the same time Nationalism as an idea came to the Middle East and spread among the people there. This came about before and during WW1. As to the claim Palestinian nationalism didn't exist in the 1930s or that Palestinians saw themselves as Syrians, one can simply look to the Palestinian Folk Anthem, Mawtini. "My homeland. Royalty and beauty, wonder and glory are in your hills. Life and salvation, pleasure and hope are in your sky." That was written by Ibrahim Tokan, a Palestinian poet, in the 30s. Seems like he had some sort of feeling as a Palestinian. Certainly he wasn't running around in a herd with other Palestinians hoping Europeans would show up and teach them about fire, the way Zionist propagandists would have folks believe. Shia1 18:13, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Missing text

It is a square of cloth, usually cotton, folded and wrapped in various styles around the head. its has a "keffiyeh" and it's a white skullcap under the Hat itself, and the fold worn across the forehead. [sic]

Anyone able to sort this out? Flapdragon 12:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Arabian Hat

"Arabian Hat"?????? Is this not nonsense? None of the links talk about "Arabian Hats", Ammar shaker changed the lable on the link to the daily star article so that it refered to an Arabin hat but if you look at the article it is titled "Arafat immortalized keffiyeh as symbol of Palestine"[3]. I have moved it back to Keffiyeh. --JK the unwise 15:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

hello sir , im Arab and i see the Topic is talkin about the Hat it self which is called "Ghutra" not "Keffiyeh" , and the Keffiyeh thing is a small white skullcap under the hat it self , thank you. --Ammar shaker 66:88, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

In some places, especially Saudi and Bahrain, it is called ghutra, and the skullcap is called kufiya. However, in most other Arab countries, a skullcap is not worn, and the cloth is itself called kufiya. As this is the most common name, it is the name of the article. The English word hat is not used to describe the ghutra/kufiya as it is generally used to describe close fitting headgear. — Gareth Hughes 00:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for claiming that the edit might have been nonsense, it seems Ammar was well intentioned in their edit. Prehaps some reference to this issule can be added to the article.--JK the unwise 09:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

in fact u've got wrong information sir , even if u were right about "some" iraqis whom dont wear the skullcap , they still call it Ghutra , second thing the whatever u call it crappy thing is more worn in saudi arabia much more than any other place which i prefer to use their Names of this long story on their heads , other wise i'd rather call a pantie a Bra hehe :D , thanx for listening anyways and its up to u if u wanna currect ur information :) --Ammar shaker 895:867, 58 March 6706 (UTC)

Along those lines, one could draw attention to the different meanings of the word pants between American and British English. The kufiya probably meant something in the Kufa style originally. Throughout Egypt and the Levant, 'kufiya' is the name of the headcloth, and, because of this, it has become the main word used in English and other European languages. The alternative names, and the skullcap are mentioned in the article, and it is obvious that they are peculiarly Gulfi names. Of course, it remains disputed which is the more correct usage, so we use the more common. — Gareth Hughes 15:16, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

whatever u like my friend :) have a nice day

--Ammar shaker 6895:88567, 88547 March 656706 (UTC)

Religious

i have seen non-muslim palestinians wear it and I know it is a nationalist symbol, but s there any religious significance at all to its use or is it entirely a secular cultural phenomenon? Is it required by sharia?

No, the keffiyeh is not required by Sharia. It is worn by Christians and members of other religious groups in many places throughout the Middle East. The green-and-white keffiyeh that is a modern, political invention, and, as it indicates support for Hamas, is only worn by Muslims. — Gareth Hughes 13:06, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Arafat's wasn't traditional

The main article says:

It would later become a trademark symbol of Yasser Arafat, who was rarely seen without a keffiyeh. Arafat would wear the keffiyeh in the traditional manner, around the head and wrapped by an egal, but he also wore in the neckline of his military fatigues.

Granted the tail end isn't grammatical enough to know how to even correct... However, I've heard that Arafat's keffiyeh was unique: he always wore a split in the front (even visible in the photo on this page) to symbolize the divide between the West Bank and Gaza. Since I heard that a decade (or two) ago I've always found this detail to draw my attention when I see pictures of him or of other keffiyehs.

I'm not going to make this edit myself, but I'm sure that the words "traditional manner" are therefore inaccurate.

"Shemagh"

For the military section I thought it best to include this spelling rather than any other as it is the standard one used. No reason to put it in any other place but its inclusion for the purposes of comprehensiveness is necessary. It can be found amongst other places at these here, here and here, and at every military surplus site you care to look for. Cheers. Driller thriller 19:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I have added some additional usage data from a British and Commonwealth perspective drawing on standard published and open sources. This section still lacks any substantive detail on the French military and police adoption of this headwear. KeepSureSilence72.37.171.100 13:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Etymology of different names

I'm wondering if anyone can add anything more about the different names. We've had the last poster tell us that shemagh is the prefered spelling among western millitaries. I think we've chosen the most popular name, keffiyeh, for the article. This is what I have so far:

• Template:Lang-ar (kūfīyä; plural: Template:Lang-ar, kūfīyāt) — perhaps from Kufa (Template:Lang-ar, al-kūfä.
• Template:Lang-ar (šmāġ) — popular military name, but cannot find word in my Arabic dictionary.
• Template:Lang-ar (ġuṭrä) — seems to be popular name in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, where kufiyeh refers to the skullcap worn underneath.
• Template:Lang-ar (ḥaṭṭä) — based on the root ḥaṭṭ (Template:Lang-ar), meaning 'to put, place, put down, set down'.

Can anyone help with information about these different names? — Gareth Hughes 22:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The term شماغ (šmāġ) isn't best referred to a military term, in the Gulf region it is used to refer to the (usually red) patterned shawl while غطرة (ġuṭrä) refers to the plain white one. The former is more common in countries like Saudi Arabia, and it also seems to be quite popular in the military. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.147.115 (talk) 12:44, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Sandstorms vs. sand

It would seem more useful to make the internal link in the second paragraph of the article refer to sandstorms instead of sand. I never needed a keffiyeh walking on the beach, but sure would have liked to have had one on some windy days far from the water in the Middle East. --Catawba 23:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

As a fasion accesory

Note, these are also used quite a bit in fashion and are usually sold as "Emo" or "Desert" scarves; take a look James.Spudeman 20:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

'How to wrap a keffiyeh' section

Can somebody with knowledge make a 'how to wrap a keffiyeh' section for the various styles? I can think of a few off hand, the mujahideen style covering all but the eyes, the Yasser Arafat style mentioned in the article, the "traditional" style, and the style farmers use that makes the top look bunched up like a snake wrapped around the head while a portion hangs down in the back.Cyprein 12:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Patterns

There is information on the colours, but not the patterns and their possible significance. When I was in Jordan in the mid-80s, only Palestinians wore the wide-mesh pattern keffiyeh (always in B&W - like in Arafat's photo); the bedouin wore the finer mesh pattern, like in the top photo, usually in B&W but occasionally in red and white.

Incidentally, when I bought a couple in the souk to take home (to the UK), I was amused to see they were manufactured in Bradford in Yorkshire.

Also, in reference to the fashion trend subsection, they were popular in the UK in the early 80s. Me and loads of my student mates wore them, and then were pissed off when Ric in The Young Ones started wearing one. We stopped at once 'cos he was a pretentious tosser (and, of course, we weren't). 217.155.195.19 18:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Ghotra

I think it would be said in the Middle East that the ghotra was a whole 'nuther garment and not a sub-type or regional variation on the kaffiyeh. I think it should have its own entry, and maybe an entire entry on the costume of the Arabian Peninsula/ Gulf would be warranted, dishdash and all. Ghotra is a different fabric from kaffiyeh, different size, worn quite differently. Not really the same. Amity150 03:34, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Britain

Ah, in Britain their are thousands of teenagers (wearing skin tight trousers, slanted cut fringes with masses of hair on top (what style or statment is this????)) wearing the Keffiyeh around their necks. They havn't got a clue about the Palestinian struggle, they wear it as something called a 'Rock Scarf' [4] - I declare that everytime I see one I will speak to them about it. Its crazy in Britain, everywhere, even in small villages - these people have no clue. Is it just these types of teenagers (as described above) in Britain or is this all over. Also, what style is that that they dress? Robert C Prenic 08:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I think they are Hipster (contemporary subculture) or EMO's [5]. Robert C Prenic (talk) 17:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Plural?

The article lacks consistency in its pluralisation of the word (compare "Many Palestinian keffiyeh are a mix of cotton and wool" and "Black and white keffiyehs are associated with Fatah, while red and white keffiyehs are associated with Hamas") - as the word has been naturalised into the English language, can I suggest we agree on "keffiyehs" as a plural? ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 12:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)