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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Danieldis47 (talk | contribs) at 22:37, 14 November 2010 (→Archimedes, Inc.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archimedes, Inc.

Archimedes, Inc. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics
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An article on a four year old company. Fails the notability guideline and the WP:ORG guideline specifically. The article also involves some very concerning conflict of interest issues. The creator of the article works as a "communications consultant", and has admitted on Twitter that he was paid to write the article. Article lists citations, but there are trivial references, that fail to meet WP:N. res Laozi speak 12:52, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For any users who want a specific analysis of each citation, here it is:
  1. First citation is about the founder of the company, trivial mention of a program called Archimedes. Doesn't mention the company at all.
  2. Again, focused on the founder of the company and a program of his. There is a trivial, one sentence mention of the company.
  3. Main page of the company. Not a reliable source.
  4. Another trivial mention. Just a single sentence.
  5. An interview from a relatively obscure publication. Not sure if it's notable in the field.
  6. Considered trivial by WP:ORG standards. Mentions that the company has recieved a grant, then focuses on the founder and the computer model.
  7. Minor mention on the computer model and its creator. No mention of the company.
  8. Award for one of the founders of the company. Very trivial mention of the company.
  9. Considered trivial by WP:ORG standards. Mentions that the company has recieved a grant, then focuses on the founder and the computer model.

--res Laozi speak 13:20, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article does not seem to include "peacock" language and it appears to be properly sourced. Of course, any editors with criticisms of the company (properly sourced) can add them in at any time, including now (I see that none have chosen to do so...). Regarding notability: The company's founder and CEO invented the term "evidence-based" (and that is the focus of the company's work); as sourced in the article, the major RWJ grant just awarded to the company is its largest ever in this field and prompted the RWJ president to write, “Archimedes is the gold standard in healthcare modeling”; and the company has been featured in Wired and Business Week (as cited in the article), among other notable publications. The criticisms raised above could provide direction for improving some parts of the article. But many are very questionable, such as: "Not sure if it's notable in the field" (It is...), or attempts to somehow separate the company's major work ("The Archimedes Model") from the company itself ("Archimedes, Inc.") They do not add up to sufficient grounds for deletion of an informative and useful entry.12.179.50.234 (talk) 12:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1) The founder of the company did not invent the term "evidence-based". Gordon Guyatt coined the term, and on a date the predates when the CEO supposedly did. Also, notability is not inherited, it doesn't matter who the founder is, this company is not notable. 2) The lack of peacock language has no reflection on the notability of an article. 3) It "appears to be properly sourced" but, by Wikipedia's reliable source standards, it clearly does not. The Wired article indicates that the computer model (created in 2004) predates the formation of the company (in 2006), and as such, notability is not inherited. In the BW and Wired articles, the company, by itself, was not featured. The citations are considered to be trivial mentions by WP:ORG standards, which are not sufficient to satsfy notability guidelines. 4) Not a specialist, can't take your word for it that a news site is notable in a specific field, you'll need to verify it. But the point is moot either way. The WP:RS guideline prefers "mainstream news sources", which three of the citations are not. --res Laozi speak 14:37, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: At the time this article was created, the Wikipedia article on "evidence-based" clearly (and for quite some time) identified Dr. Eddy as the inventor of the term. That article has been changed within the last few days (see edits to that page) with no discussion about said changes on that article's discussion page. There is a proper place, I am sure, for working out that issue.Danieldis47 (talk) 21:56, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of the company's notability, I see no response to the raised point that (as sourced) the company received a record-breaking grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (as well as the praise from that foundation, as also noted above).Danieldis47 (talk) 22:22, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Serious concerns must be raised about the nominator’s “list of concerns,” including (new comments in italics):

• First citation is about the founder of the company, trivial mention of a program called Archimedes. Doesn't mention the company at all. “Trivial mention” would appear to be inaccurate. The term “Archimedes” appears at least seven times in the article, including this lengthy passage: “Eddy dubbed the model Archimedes and tested it by comparing it with two dozen real trials. One clinical study compared cholesterol-lowering statin drugs to a placebo in diabetics. After 4 1/2 years, the drugs reduced heart attacks by 35%. The exact same thing happened in Eddy's simulated patients. "The Archimedes model is just fabulous in the validation studies," says the University of Michigan's Herman. The team then put Archimedes to work on a tough, real problem: how best to treat diabetes in people who have additional aliments. "One thing not yet adequately embraced by evidence-based medicine is what to do for someone with diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, and depression," explains Kaiser's Wallace. Doctors now typically try to treat the most pressing problems. "But we fail to pick the right ones consistently, so we have misdirected utilization and a great deal of waste," he says. Kaiser Permanente's Dr. Jim Dudl had a counterintuitive suggestion. With diabetics, doctors assume that keeping blood sugar levels low and consistent is the best way to ward off problems such as heart disease. But Dudl wondered what would happen if he flipped it around, aiming treatment at the downstream problems. The idea is to give patients a trio of generic medicines: aspirin, a cholesterol-lowering statin, and drugs called ACE inhibitor. Using Archimedes and thousands of virtual patients, Eddy and Schlessinger compared the traditional approach with the drug combination. The model took about a half-hour to simulate a 30-year trial, and showed that the three-drug combination was "cost- and life-saving," says Kaiser's Wallace. The benefits far surpassed "what can be achieved with aggressive glucose control." Kaiser Permanente docs switched their standard of care for diabetes, adding these drugs to other interventions. It is too early to declare a victory, but the experience with patients seems to be mimicking Eddy's computer model. "It goes against our mental picture of the disease," says Wallace. But it also makes sense, he adds. "Cardiovascular disease is the worst complication of diabetes -- and what people die of." Eddy readily concedes that this example is a small beginning. In its current state of development, Archimedes is like "the Wright brothers' plane. We're off the sand and flying to Raleigh." But it won't be long, he says, "before we're offering transcontinental flights, with movies."

• Again, focused on the founder of the company and a program of his. There is a trivial, one sentence mention of the company. “A program of his” is the Archimedes Model, which is the basis and purpose of the work of Archimedes, Inc. (as the sources explain). I’m not sure what is gained by attempting to blur this actuality.

• An interview from a relatively obscure publication. Not sure if it's notable in the field. “Managed Care Magazine publishes a peer-reviewed managed care publication that serves the professional, business, clinical education, and information needs of managed care decision makers. The company’s circulation includes medical directors, pharmacy directors, physicians, pharmacists, and other executive titles in HMO/PPO, home health care, nursing home, hospital, group practice, and integrated health care organizations.” Bloomberg Businessweek: http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=30085500

• Considered trivial by WP:ORG standards. Mentions that the company has received a grant, then focuses on the founder and the computer model. The topic of the article is the awarding of a grant to Archimedes, Inc. The article makes clear that the grant was not given to an individual, and that it was not given to a computer model. Indeed, the title of the article is, “Archimedes' new benefactor” – a direct reference to the company. I must admit, this “point of concern” seems more than a bit strained.

• Minor mention on the computer model and its creator. No mention of the company. That is (rather clearly) because this source is used for a brief section of the article that focuses on the Archimedes founder and CEO.

• Award for one of the founders of the company. Very trivial mention of the company. Again, that is because this source is used for a brief section of the article that focuses on the Archimedes founder and CEO.

• Considered trivial by WP:ORG standards. Mentions that the company has recieved a grant, then focuses on the founder and the computer model. The topic of the article is the awarding of a grant to Archimedes, Inc. The article makes clear that the grant was not given to an individual, and that it was not given to a computer model.

Thank you. Danieldis47 (talk) 21:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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