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vandalisme

this article contains 'pure' vandalisms! since when mahathir is an Indian?

plus the citations references also not reliable... Izzudin (talk) 12:11, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is known, i think, that Mahathir has Indian roots. But i agree that the citation is not reliable. And its not notable enough to be included in the lead section. However, i might be worth a mention somewhere else in the article (that he has indian roots). Not so sure about the name. kawaputratorque 12:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mahathir's father was an Indian immigrant from Kerala; this is well-documented. Anyone with a proper biography of Mahathir's should be able to provide a reference for this. Johnleemk | Talk 13:11, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Johnleemk, I expect that you have the source of your statement because you know about this. Just put the book's name and ISBN code, for example. Because you said that it is well-documented, I bet you know some of the books or documents regarding your statement. Thanks... We need to improve the quality of this really really important article! Izzudin (talk) 12:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I already provided a citation. As I was saying, any comprehensive biography of Mahathir's will mention this. Googling alone will reveal a surfeit of news stories and opinion pieces remarking on his Indian ancestry. Johnleemk | Talk 16:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Mahathir is an Indian ancestry although he is widely considered as a Malay. He is one of the the greatest Malaysian PM in history. I hope that this article will be the featured article in English Wikipedia. — Imran Al-Sahih 16:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Johnleemk, your citations provided are from an unknown (not famous) blogs or personal sites that is not considered as reliable reference for Wikipedia. For the best, please provide book name and ISBN number or reference from well-known sites. I may believe one of his ancestors is Indian but really don't believe his name was ..something kutty.. izzudin 11:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Imran, the topic might have the elements to be featured, but this article contains so many rubbishes! izzudin 11:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That his father was Indian cannot be disputed, but I never said anything about his name (I can't think of any biographies which give the Kutty name). Also, a news website is not a blog or personal site. You seem to have not bothered to look it up on Google either, since if you did you would realise that there is a plethora of news websites all referring to Mahathir's Indian ancestry. Johnleemk | Talk 05:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I tried googling with keyword 'Mahathir Indian' and none of the first page's results display any well-known websites. If only you can give me a link to the reliable source you found. izzudin 08:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I found an article from India Today, follow this link. kawaputratorque 12:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Another by Bowring for the IHT [1] __earth (Talk) 13:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
India Today says that Mahathir's grandfather is from Kerala not his father. But Bowring says his father was a teacher from India. This is confusing. Still need trusted and certified reference to confirm about this. I'm not saying that I strongly disagree Mahathir have an Indian ancestry, I just want to be sure about this. izzudin 15:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how it can be confusing. They are not contradictory and India Today does not say the father is not from Kerala. One source says the grandfather was from Kerala and another source says the father was from India. Based on the sources, which are quite reliable, it is only logical that both the father and the granddad were actually from India.__earth (Talk) 16:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We need to confirm is it his Grandfather or his Father is an immigrant from Kerala. izzudin 13:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC) ...and why do India today need to write Mahathir's grandfather is an Indian if they can write that it is his father. That confused me... izzudin 13:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If one source says your father is from country A and another sources says your father is from country A too, would be you confused? __earth (Talk) 13:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We are talking about a source saying Mahathir's father is from Kerala while the other source say nothing about his father. I am stressing here, why would India today state that Mahathir's grandfather is from India if they can say his father instead. (my english may not be so good) izzudin 19:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Does it contradict with each other? __earth (Talk) 02:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless the issue, the two sources cannot be used because they are opinion pieces. We need better sources. __earth (Talk) 12:37, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clear the air after Sean wrote me a note. The Universiti Utara Malaysia website states:

Dalam autobiografinya, Dr Mahathir mengatakan bahawa dia mempunyai keturunan orang India (daripada bapanya) yang mempunyai kaitan dengan Kerala, India, yang mana ibunya adalah orang Melayu yang dilahirkan di Kedah. Walau bagaimanapun, dia mengganggapkan diri sebagai Melayu yang tulin.

The translation is as follows:

"In his autobiography, Dr Mahathir says that he is descended from an Indian (from his father) who has links with Kerala, India, while his mother is a Malay, born in Kedah. However, he considers himself to be a pure Malay."

Tranungkite.net, PAS Youth Center for Information and Missionary Work, Dungun, Terengganu, says:

"Disini saya hendak tanya orang Islam, Melayu dan rakyat Malaysia seluruhnya bolehkah kita mempercayai seorang Perdana Menteri yang sanggup menipu nama Bapa dan Mak sendiri? Adalah HARAM menyebut atau memanggil nama Perdana Menteri kita Mahathir Bin Mohamad kerana bapanya bukan bernama Mohammad. Kalau bapanya bernama Siskandar Kutty biarlah kita menyebut Perdana Menteri kita Mahathir anak lelaki Siskandar Kutty. Kenapa malu sangat akan nama bapa sendiri sehingga sanggup menipu seluruh dunia akan nama bapa sendiri? Bukan itu sahaja Perdana Menteri kita juga sanggup menipu keturunan dan agama Bapa dan Datok beliau sendiri. Datok kepada Mahathir ialah seorang Paderi Hindu yang terkenal di Cochin, India dan bapa beliau Alhamdulillah memeluk Islam hanya apabila berada di Tanah Melayu ditangan orang Melayu. (Ini akan didedahkan dimasa yang sesuai)"

Translated, it reads as follows:

"Here I would like to ask Muslims, Malays, and Malaysian citizens whether we can trust a Prime Minister who is prepared to cheat his father and mother's name. It's illegal (as in Islamic laws) to call our Prime Minister, Mahathir bin Mohamad, because his father is not Mohamad*. If his father is Siskandar Kutty, let us call our Prime Minister Mahathir s/o Siskandar Kutty. Why be ashamed of his own father's name until he is prepared to cheat the whole world regarding his father's own name? Not just that, our Prime Minister is also prepared to cheat the lineage and religion of his own father and grandfather. Mahathir's grandfather is a famous Hindu priest in Cochin, India and his deceased father embraced Islam only after Malaya was in the hands of the Malays. (This will be revealed when the time is appropriate.)"

However, the photo caption at Page 24 of Mahathir of Malaysia: Statesman and Leader by Robin Adshead (1989) ISBN 1 87242 00 5 says: "This portrait of Dr. Mahathir's father, Encik Mohamad Iskandar who played an influential part in moulding the character of the future Prime Minsiter, still hangs on the wall of the little house in Jalan Sebarang Perak in Alor Setar where Mahathir spent his boyhood." So it does seem that there is nothing wrong with the name "Mahathir bin Mohamad." The book does not say anything about an Indian ancestry. If anything, a casual reading seems to make one have the impression that his father is Malay by descent (not by legal definition). — PM Poon (talk) 05:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can e-malabari.net, the web portal of the Malabari's of Malaysia, be considered authoritative enough? It says:

"The list of famous Malabaris of the period cannot be complete without the mention of one Iskandar, who was of Kerala Muslim descent. His son, Mohammed Iskandar was born of a Malay woman (Siti Hawa). Mohammed Iskandar eventually left Penang to settle in Kedah and subsequently acquired fame as an English teacher and as the first headmaster of Alor Star’s first English School (now known as Maktab Sultan Abdul Samad). Mohammad Iskandar married a Malay, Wan Tampawan, and the union produced nine children. The youngest, Mahathir bin Mohammad Iskandar, rose to become the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia (Morais, 1982: 2)."

NOTE: If this is correct, then Mahathir's grandfather is a Malayan immigrant and not his dad. — PM Poon (talk) 06:57, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cambridge Encyclopedia

"Born in Alor Setar, the capital of the northern state of Kedah, Mahathir said in his autobiography that he had Indian ancestry (from his father), with its origins tracing back to Kerala in India, while his mother was a Kedah-born Malay. Mahathir, however, considers himself to be a "full Malay", in line with Article 160 of the Constitution." (Source: http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/14127/Mahathir-bin-Mohamad.html)

Is this source authoritative enough? — PM Poon (talk) 07:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mahathir Mohamad Iskandar Kutty

The source are suspect. Both sources that provide the name are blogs of unknown reputation. It is possible to have better and more reputable source? Else, it should be removed. __earth (Talk) 08:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The name should be like: Mahathir bin Mohamad bin Iskandar, if want to put the Iskandar but it is not required and will look odd. 'Kutty' however cannot be confirmed. izzudin 10:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
According to Wikipedia's entry for Kutty, it is a suffix meaning 'son'. So, in a sense it has the same function as bin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.236.225 (talk) 13:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mahathir's father is Encik Mohamad Iskandar. Thus, there is nothing wrong with the name, Mahathir bin Mohamad, or should it be Mahathir bin Mohamad Iskandar? We know many names where Mohamad Something is not Mohamad bin Something, eg. Mohamad Ali bin Mohamad Rustam. Could Mohamad Iskandar then be like Cassius Clay who became Muhammad Ali? — PM Poon (talk) 06:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some removal

I removed these paragraphs as they seem not to be greatly relevant to this article. Plus it sounds like some pro-BN propaganda.

UMNO heads were seen by opposition supporters as corrupt politicians more focused on power and economic gain, as Mahathir was only interested in their total loyalty.[citation needed] PAS leveraged this into a selling point by promising a clean, Islamic administration. Despite this, PAS only captured the state of Terengganu in the 1999 elections, and failed to retain it in the next election. This was largely seen to be due to PAS' fundamentalist Islamic policies, as they had introduced Islamic sharia laws into Terengganu and their other stronghold, Kelantan. These laws included banning various forms of entertainment, and mandatory wearing of the headscarf for female civil servants. Many political analysts felt that this had prevented PAS from making major gains, keeping the reins of power firmly in Mahathir's hands, as the non-Malay voters were turned off by the perceived religious fundamentalism of PAS. Also, Mahathir remained popular among many Malaysians, and the third world.[citation needed]

I have removed parts of the 9/11 section, as it was not sourced (there was source, but it did not contain anything). I suspect vandalism. I found some claims on the internet, but they take wikipedia as a source. There need to be a valid source, otherwise it is just vandalism. 94.220.237.113 (talk) 02:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ministries were allotted to all component parties of the Barisan Nasional. Even non-Malay parties obtained the ministerships of key ministries such as Health (MCA), Transport (MCA), and the Works Ministry (MIC). Certain ministries were also shared with one party traditionally getting the ministers post and another party getting the deputy ministership. This was standard coalition politics as with all other coalition governments who wanted to ensure everyone got a slice of the cake.

Attribute

Antisemitism has been the subject of some discussion here although no consensus seems to have been reached. With great disgust I have noticed that one user even used the chance to openly present his own racist views. It surprises (and appalls me) how one can deny the fact that calling the Jewish people as a whole "hook-nosed" is an antisemitic statement. The statement is to be found in The Malay Dilemma and is also mentioned in secondary sources. The nature of these secondary sources is not of importance (though they are reputable) if it comes to the question of assessing the statement itself. Or how else can you call such a it if not antisemitic?--Fan of Freedom (talk) 22:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because that is your opinion, and you have the right to have it. I have some negative opinions about contemporary living people as well. But I can't state it as fact on wikipedia. We must attribute the statements.Bless sins (talk) 23:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I must admit that you have a point. I had meant to refer to other examples of contemporary racists and antisemites but had to realize that in wikipedia you apparently can't even call such an extremist like Jean-Marie Le Pen what he really is. Such a kind of beating around the bush seems to be the common compromise for such topics though I still feel uneasy about it to say the least. I would suggest to just speak of "public remarks" as in the previous version.--Fan of Freedom (talk) 09:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That is one of the down points of wikipedia. I read somewhere in an example on wiki policies that we can't call Saddam Hussein as "evil".Bless sins (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see your face but if that was meant as some kind of ironic jibe I'd just point out that there is quite a difference between the two examples. But anyway, I'm not keen on discussing Mahathir's comments any further. I'll restore the version with "public remarks", hope everyone can live with that.--Fan of Freedom (talk) 13:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tamil origin?

Is Dr.M of Tamil Muslim origin? Anwar (talk) 19:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The local officials had never said that. izzudin 17:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "thestar 2" :
    • {{cite news|date=[[2006-10-24]]|url=http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/24/nation/20061024012835&sec=nation|title= Transcript of Tun Mahathir's press conference|publisher=[[The Star (Malaysia)]]}}
    • {{cite news|date=[[2006-10-24|url=http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/24/nation/20061024012835&sec=nation|title=Transcript of Tun Mahathir's press conference|publisher=[[The Star (Malaysia)]]}}
    • {{cite news|date=[[2006-10-24]]|url=http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/24/nation/20061024012835&sec=nation|title=Transcript of Tun Mahathir's press conference|publisher=[[The Star (Malaysia)]]}}

DumZiBoT (talk) 00:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The subject is taboo

"No mention of Mahathir's Indian Muslim background ever appears in the media. The subject is taboo," says Prospect Magazine. So now that the air is clear as to why it is so difficult to get information on Mahathir's background, I suggest we end the debate here. Say some more and we may well become the guest of the Malaysian government later tonight, LOL. — PM Poon (talk) 07:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who is this Philip Bowring character - and why does he so want people to believe Dr. M had an Indian father? Both sources that claim Dr. M's father of being born in India are from him. One is his blog (quoted above) and the other the prospect magazine link above where he is the author. 60.54.34.181 (talk) 05:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Philip Bowring was a longtime editor and reporter for the dear, departed Far Eastern Economic Review. Spent his entire adult life reporting on Asia. Not sure where he gets his info about this or whether it's true, but since you asked.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

pronunciation

Since it wasn't sourced, and it appears we don't even know his ancestry, I changed the pseudo-Arabic pronunciation of his name to something more Malay. If it's a mistake, please restore--preferably with a source there or an explanation here. kwami (talk) 14:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

9/11 Was Staged Remarks.

Dr. Mahathir has recently caused a stir by acknowledging that there is strong evidence that 9/11 was staged: http://911blogger.com/node/22428

The article should be updated to include this information (with an NPOV on the subject as to whether 9/11 was in fact staged or not).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.186.64 (talk • contribs) 01:54, 22 January 2010

Got a reliable source? A biography needs careful verification. . . dave souza, talk 19:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mahathir is a CIA agent. Mahathir is a Bilderberg member too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.120.185.171 (talk) 15:00, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

‎ This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:25, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/6/21/nation/21617618&sec=nation. and other sources. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mkativerata (talk) 20:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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