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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Serpent's Choice (talk | contribs) at 06:22, 2 December 2010 (→Requested move: oppose. Manual of style and novel synthesis would seem to foreclose on a title based on ×; support providing a redirect from the special character version, however.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Title

Isn't this song called "Yeah 3×"? Yves (talk) 00:35, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Yeah 3X → Yeah 3× — I moved this article to "Yeah 3×" awhile ago, and it was moved back to "Yeah 3X" by User:Candyo32: "Title of the song per single cover." X and × are going to look nearly identical when printed in most fonts... the title is read as "Yeah 3 Times", not "Yeah 3 X" (as made clear from the "yeah yeah yeah" hook in the song), which is why the title I moved it to is more appropriate. –Chase (talk / contribs) 03:12, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm not sure what you mean by "clearly": in most fonts, including the one used on the cover, x and a times symbol are nearly, if not completely, identical. Can't find any reliable sources showing that the song is pronounced "Yeah 3 Times", but likewise, can't find any that show it's pronounced "Yeah 3 X". "Yeah 3 X" makes no sense, especially when the hook is the word "yeah" being said 3 times. WP:COMMONSENSE applies. –Chase (talk / contribs) 04:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Graphic designers often lack typographical accuracy: people may not know there is a different unicode for the multiplication symbol, and if they do, it takes effort to find what it is. On album covers and articles, Beyoncé's name is spelled many times without the acute accent as is Céline Dion's, even in French ([1], [2], [3]), where it is present on the keyboard . Yves (talk) 04:30, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The times symbol always uses right angles. If they aren't right angles, it's an X. Powers T 12:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not decorative. The "×" symbol, with or without the context of this song title, is generally meant to be read out loud as "times"... it's not like ":-)" and "♥", which don't have a pronunciation, substituting for "Smiley Face" and "Heart". –Chase (talk / contribs) 16:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
is 'generally meant to be read out loud as "times". Actually "♥" has a pronunciation "heart". If we cannot type "×", why we'll call the article Yeah 3×? Just because Yeah 3x redirect there, does not means that is correct. Moreover the cover shows it as 3X (even if the cover probably was meant to shown ×). Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 21:06, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"♥" can also be pronounced "love" or "loves". Yves (talk) 02:18, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • So would you be saying Billboard, other magazines, newspapers, and official chart companies spelling it "Jason Derulo" instead of "Jason Derülo" make that correct? Or single covers that incorrectly spell "Beyoncé"? Yves (talk) 02:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You have a point, except surely a lower case 'x' is closer to a '×', and the cover artists would have used "Yeah 3x" that if the title were "Yeah 3×". Under that circumstance I would concede. But it is a capital 'X' being used, which is different. Do you see what I mean? Adabow (talk · contribs) 02:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are correct, but a lowercase "x" is not vertically centred, but rests on the baseline. Looking at the slot the character encompasses, an uppercase "X" is vertically and horizontally centred and symmetrical. Yves (talk) 02:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In looking at the single cover, it definitely seems "Yeah 3X" As for examples on the singles covers for the named examples, their names are correctly with the accents. Candyo32 02:53, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I meant to say for the Derulo and Beyonce examples, their names are corrected with the accents on the single covers. Candyo32 03:02, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But not the aforementioned Céline ones. Yves (talk) 03:07, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That may be a different case as even her page isn't accented (Celine Dion) as is Beyoncé Knowles and Jason Derülo. Candyo32 03:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But it is in French, where é is present on keyboards. Those covers are all of French-language albums. Yves (talk) 03:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • X and × are going to look nearly identical in the font used on the single cover. How do you know it's not a ×? It's clear which is meant. "Yeah 3x" makes no sense. "Yeah 3×" does, and WP:COMMONSENSE would tell you that that is clearly the intention behind the title. –Chase (talk / contribs) 03:00, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Saying that the X is a × is like saying "How do you know the X is not a X." Candyo32 03:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Because WP:COMMONSENSE would tell you that in a song where the hook is "yeah, yeah, yeah", it's a times symbol, not an X. –Chase (talk / contribs) 03:48, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on manual of style grounds. "Non-language characters such as "♥", as sometimes found in advertisements or logos, should never be used in titles." Even if we were to accept that the character is intended by the song's producers to be ×, that is a "non-language character" (see I Heart Huckabees). As a separate concern, I see no evidence allowing us to state that the character involved is necessarily ×. Ideals of typographical accuracy notwithstanding, both the capital and lowercase letter X are frequently used to represent "times". While the intention behind the symbol is clear, determining the symbol involved based solely on that intention constitutes novel synthesis. Sources have been identified which do not use ×; especially with that in mind, the default title should be the one following the MOS recommendations. I do not object to a redirect from the ×-based title, however. Serpent's Choice (talk) 06:22, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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