Talk:Dragut

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Wonderful work, congratulations. Turgut is also my dad's name. I summer a few miles from Turgutreis every other year, and I had no idea he was born there. What a life, what an adventure... where are these men now?--Murat (talk) 15:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Granada?

The article said in the Djerba section that "he landed in Granada". Granada is not a seaport so I'm guessing he landed in the Granada coast, right? Probably Almuñecar. Anyway, I found this reference in this regard http://www.almunecar.com/Visitors_Guide/Sightseeing/Watchtowers.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mountolive (talk • contribs) 00:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

I made the necessary correction. Thank you very much for your contribution and interest in improving the article. I mostly used Italian and Turkish sources when editing Turgut Reis, and they simply referred to it as "the coast of Granada" without any specific definition of the settlements, but mentioning that Turgut Reis (Dragut) took 4,000 prisoners there. Thank you very much, once again. Regards. Flavius Belisarius 22:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The display box info for the monument of the Admiral Turgut Reis I have detected a possible minor grammatical error, it reads "The Monument Of The Admiral Turgut (Dragut) Reis in Bodrum, Turkiy." which should be "The Monument Of The Admiral Turgut (Dragut) Reis in Bodrum, Turkey.". If anyone does not object to this then I will change it within the next 14 days. AussieSkeptic82 (talk) 13:50, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Turgut Reis is not from Greek Descendant

Turgut Reis is comes from Turkish origin, his name also approves it, Turgut was a very old Turkish word.

Someone said "He was captured and taken prisoner by the corsairs in his youth and had converted to Islam." That is untrue, if he is born and living in that region, he couldn't be capture or taken prisoner by the corsairs, because he is also from Corsair's homeland, Aydin-Mentese region.

And who said this thesis, he didn't know anything about Ottoman Law and Administration above subject. In Ottoman land, no one can captured or taken prisoner if he/she is not guilty or criminal because he/she is from Christian or Jewish origin. All the religious groups and people had equal rights.

Turgut didn't converted Islam or Turkish! Any one never made any man to convert to his own nation, especially in Ottoman. At first paragraph, that is said, he is Turkish; at Early Career part, he is becoming greek ? That is very ridiculous.

All other nations in Ottoman were free and were able to free expression. Anyone can express himself a Greek, Georgian, Armenian, Albanian. There are lots of Greek or Armenian Pashas then Turks. Thinking of he is Greek is just an imagination.

Turgut is a Turkish corsair and at his childhood times, he was always thinking of holy war against Crusaders and for that, he acuumulate to buy a ship then set sail to Mediterranean. He was a zealous for his ideals.

No need to mention origins

The Ottoman Empire was just like the Roman Empire, the peoples had different origins, there is no need to mention all the origins because all of them were just considered as Ottomans as the peoples in the Roman Empire were considered as Romans.

Turgut Reis was raised as an Ottoman and lived his life as an Ottoman as he spoke the Ottoman Turkish language. Redman19 (talk) 11:53, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Greekness was important especially for the Ottoman Navy. Traditionally, the best seamen had been drawn from the subject Greeks, but the War of Independence cut off this source of supply.

Sources

Can you provide me a source where Turgut Reis states he is proud of his "Greekness"? Or anything else where he is relating to his Greek background.

Many Greeks who were against Ottoman rule kept their own identity and participated in the War of Independence against the Ottomans. Turgut Reis was a Greek in origin but he was an Ottoman at top, again there is no need to mention the origin of every figure in the Ottoman Empire, thats just nonsense. Redman19 (talk) 09:36, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

By the way his Greek background is mentioned in the second paragraph of the article. Turgut was born of Greek descent in a village near Bodrum, on the Aegean coast of Asia Minor. Redman19 (talk) 09:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

who cares if turgut reis was of greek origin? like you said yourself he was raised like an ottoman and lived like an ottoman, most greeks i know dont even know who turgut reis was, most greeks dont care about our history, turgut is a part of ottoman turkish history not greek. even his name is turkish. 188.202.146.57 (talk) 11:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

http://www.piratesahoy.net/66/turgut-reis/ according to this link his father was a Turk, its just useless to discuss his origins as they were all considered as Ottomans. 195.240.250.105 (talk) 19:20, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

yeah thats right, barbarossa was also of greek origin but he is considered as an ottoman just like turgut reis. jennifer aniston is also of greek origin but she is considered as an american, same situation. you really think everyone in the roman empire was ethnic roman? hell no but they were all speaking the same language and were all considered as romans, the same goes for the ottoman empire, there was 1 culture, 1 language, 1 lifestyle, i think i made my point clear. 188.202.146.57 (talk) 08:34, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, piratesahoy.net isn't reliable source. This link is a copy of old version of this article. Takabeg (talk) 09:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

There are many other sources that say his father was a Turk named Veli, but that doesnt matter, the users above just wrote down the same thoughts I had, many Turks in Turkey are also of different origins but you need to understand that we Turks dont care about bloodline, its the thoughts thats connecting us, with your logic you can consider Dunga not as Brazilian but German, it makes no sense. Redman19 (talk) 10:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Look, it's not quite correct that all the Roman subjects were considered Roman, in fact most were not, they all took the Roman citizenship very late near the end of the empire. You are right about the culture, lifestyle etc. in the Ottoman empire. It is indeed the same with USA, and it's true that Jennifer Aniston is considered an American, but as you can see her exact origin (Greek, Scottish and Italian) is still mentioned in her article & that's the case with thousands other persons articles. That someone is of Greek, Scottish or Italian origin doesn't make him less American, same way as Turgut's origin doesn't make him less Ottoman as Redman pointed. I don't see the reason not to mention the origin of a person when that's very usual & normal in WP. In any case the origin of a person is a part of his biography. When we talk of big, multinational empires like the Roman, Byzantine or Ottoman, it was even possible for emperors to have a different origin than most of his subjects. I am afraid that what 188.202.146.57 said about the Greeks is right, but that's not good for the Greeks as it's not good for the Turks either to do the same, given that the two people are already living in the same neighbourhood for at least 1.000 years and will continue for the foreseeable future; & in any case WP is not about Greeks & Turks, if Greeks don't care about Turkish history that's not a reason for everyone to do the same here. Anyway & to the point, the discussion "origin vs culture" makes no sense, they are two entirely different things and can be overlapped, you don't have to kill the one because of the other. It is obvious that you can be of German and Irish and Kenyan origin & no one to object mentioning that in your WP article because you have American culture, language & lifestyle. Ask Obama. --79.167.5.2 (talk) 11:06, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

I think its wrong to describe Turgut as a Greek Ottoman, he was just an Ottoman. His roots are already mentioned in the second paragraph of the article. Jennifer Aniston is also not mentioned as a Greek-Irish-American no she is just mentioned as American, her roots are described in the briography section of the article not in the head. Redman19 (talk) 12:40, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

His roots are already mentioned in the biography part of the article so I left it out in the head. Redman19 (talk) 12:58, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

First I have not a single edit in the current article. Just happened to see the discussion & gave my opinion without changing a single letter on its text. 2nd I thought the discussion was whether or not we must mention his origin, & I answered only to that, if I misunderstood it accept my apologies. 3rd About Aniston, you are right for her article but is common by many media to address her as Greek-American actress although she is not really of 100% greek ancestry. I can't see why not Turgut Reis for the reasons already explained above. I don't want to create an issue over it although I honesty can't see the reason you reverted Takabeg. I don't know him & I've never exchanged a word with him, but from what I have seen from his past edits he is a very cool minded and objective editor, never opening fights over stupid nationalistic things & I have not a clue about his nationality, which is the best indication of his neutrality as an editor, wish every editor in WP to be like him, WP would become a better place. 4th It is common place to mention the basics of someone including his origin in the lede although a full biography usually is present in the articles. The first paragraph you mentioning is the lede and there is no second, what you mentioning as second is in the biography chapter. By necessity everything that is presenting in the lede is a repetition compared to the full body of the article, I think that was the reason for Takabeg's edit which I think that is normal. But what I really couldn't understand the most is that together with his origin from the lede you also removed his origin from the infobox although the Ottoman was present and his origin is clearly mentioning in his biography. I don't know that if he was of Turk origin you would did the same, but if so, it would be also wrong. Can you please put it back? --62.38.121.164 (talk) 17:45, 16 December 2010 (UTC)