Talk:Mr. Brainwash

Tony Clifton

Obviously there is something suspect about Mr. Brainwash actually existing. The film does not consider his art very highly and raises arguements about the very nature of art (like warhol). Even referenceing Spinal Tap that he is taking art and turning it to 11. So whether Mr Brain Wash is an actor or is Banksy himself the page should be here. Andy Kaufman who Banksy is clearly inspired by had an imaginary character he portrayed as real, Tony Clifton and he has a real wikipedia page even though he doesnt actually exist. Both Kaufman and Banksy are taking the world for a ride and its genius. IMO Mr Brainwash not existing would make him more notable then actually existing - 192.147.235.30 (talk) 01:38, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

no sources

"french videographer" oh really, sources please, filmography, publicity of works

"His documentary" "he" is not credited as the director, Banksy is.

Checked the web and all sources are unreliable, everything sounds like a giant buzz media campaign, orchestrated to help Mr Banksy live with his guilt of making money with his good sentiments art.

The joke is probably very good, intoxicate corporate media if you want, but leave wikipedia alone.

This article should be suppressed for self promotion, or marketing, or just lack of sources, it violates the guidelines for artists entries… and if it's of any interest, please make it a sub category (character) of the aforementioned "documentary" directed by Banksy.

Seems clear this is an actor, or an alter ego of Robert Banks. Either way, not a real person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.253.4 (talk) 05:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I recently saw the Bansky documentary. It is more or less about the irony of MBW rising to fame and fortune without being talented. However, Banksy's (inadvertent) involvement in MBW's rise is a big part of the documentary. The upshot is that while MBW arguably lacks artistic credibility, and is definitely a publicity hound, he is also a real person, a (financially) successful pop artist, and the subject of a documentary by Banksy. So we can argue about what should be on his wikipedia page, but it definitely makes sense for him to have one. Miconian (talk) 17:45, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

The Intro - and the bit about most of the work isn't created by him

That intro really needs fixin up, pretty much all big artists, from Andy Warhol to Michelangelo, didn't create a lot of the work themselves, Andy Warhol and Michelangelo managed out the work to other artists to actually create much of the work, of course they had stronger art background and artistic skill, it still doesn't change the fact the artist in charge gets all the credit, and it really doesn't matter who did the actual work.

Biographical details to start!

Hi, totally agree with first talk comment, there are absolutely no "real" references or sources about this so called pop artist. I have checked the timesonline article where it says of MR. BW "Originally from a small town just outside Paris, he had moved to LA in the early Eighties". So what's the name of the town? And googling around I found this interview http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/an-interview-with-mr-brainwash/16321 wherein we learn: "I’m not like I don’t have money, I mean I work for what I did. I lost my mother when I was 11. I lost my father when I was 18." That's convenient then isn't it? And also from the same article: "I sat down in the venue with the enigmatic artist—who spoke in a thick French accent". Okay, okay, come on he's been in LA for over 25 years and still speaks in a thick French accent? Is this a put-on or what?Captain Screebo (talk) 14:56, 11 October 2010 (UTC) Why do we have no date of birth or anything? If I google his name on google.fr I get nothing or the same old claptrap that's doing the rounds of all the websites, whether in English or in French. There is some interesting info in the comments section, by Juan Rodriguez, in this article: http://www.neublack.com/features/featured-artist-mr-brainwash/ He's supposedly been in LA for 25 years "where he worked, variously, as an estate agent, a building contractor and a fashion retailer before starting to document the street-art scene," timesonline again. So, you Wikipedians in LA, come on, someone must have worked with, hung out with this Thierry Guetta? This is a bit like Scooby Doo to me, let's pull the mask off and... oh no it's the respectable but creepy art gallery owner, or something along those lines. Nothing wrong with an article about this "phenomenon", Borat's got one, but could we at least try to see through the smokescreen? Captain Screebo (talk) 14:56, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

What's this doing in the references?

Why has this bit "Mr. Brainwash is now considered as a hoax and people like Obey and Banksy, who introduced him to street art, regret ever creating MBW." just been tacked on, and what's it doing in the references section? Captain Screebo (talk) 19:31, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

"Fictional Character"

I removed the part addressing him as a fictional character. I have my suspicions about the film's reality as well, but there is not enough evidence to flat out pronounce the guy a fictional character. These proclamations need to be based on evidence, not suspicions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.170.201 (talk) 06:39, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

that makes no sense. you have to have evidence a person is real before you can claim they are, not the opposite. i learned that from the birthers :) 77.0.211.27 (talk) 02:16, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Since there is a widespread suspicion that the guy's a hoax, the lede should reflect this. I believe the current language is solid. --Orange Mike | Talk 22:16, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Hogwash

Sorry, here we go again, could some more experienced Wikipedian come and sort this article out? Here is some biographical information gleaned from different sources which does not add up, this is hogwash and so is this character. Here's the rub: "the British art-prankster wrested control of the project and turned the cameras on Guetta, launching his eccentric 44-year-old French videographer"

Right, so he's 44 then?

"Originally from a small town just outside Paris, he had moved to LA in the early Eighties, where he worked, variously, as an estate agent, a building contractor and a fashion retailer" reference as above

So he would be about 16-18 when he arrived in LA, right?

"I’m not like I don’t have money, I mean I work for what I did. I lost my mother when I was 11. I lost my father when I was 18."

Okay, so his parents died BEFORE he came to the States, well his mum for sure, at least according to this tearjerking account.

"Thierry Guetta’ backstory is too eccentrically, even touchingly, plausible. He had lived in LA for many years with his family and he says that it was the deaths of his mother and father that inspired him to videotape his entire life"

Ah, a little problem, no, he lived in LA with his family FOR MANY YEARS and it was their deaths that launched him on his crazy, street-art documenting career?

"His biography even has holes: Guetta is an orphan (when his mother died he was sent to a foster home, he says) with a family of at least four who lives in Los Angeles, yet he has no discernible income other than owning a vintage clothing store."

So now he's an orphan and was sent to a foster family, okay? And what's the name of this "vintage clothing store"?

I don't care about the art/not-art debate or the is it/isn't it Banksy: this is Wikipedia and I find this hokum akin to having an article on The Grinch or The BoogeyMan presented as a "biography of a living person".

Come on LA, do some digging, who is Thierry Guetta, does he have a shop or is this all just horses**t? Captain Screebo (talk) 20:59, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Everything you've said could be explained. His mother could have died when he was 11, his father when he was 18. When his mother died, his father couldn't take care of him so he was sent to a foster home in LA in the late 70s/early 80s. He missed his father's death when he was 18, and according to the film, this is what inspired him to obsessively compulsively record every element of his life. His accent is heavy, but I know people his age that still have accents like that and have lived here for 30 years. I don't consider any of this substantial evidence against the existence of Thierry, my "gut" tells me it's a prank, but we'll need to come up with better than that.

My guess would be that Thierry is a real person that was co-opted by Fairey and Banksy to tell this somewhat amazing story. If you want to find holes, the places to look would be trying to find out what shop he owned (it looked very familiar to me, but I'm no expert on vintage clothing stores here.) That shop has a real history. You could probably find out a lot about it on Google, but even more by a quick stop-in.

76.171.97.100 (talk) 03:16, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Dating footage of the Kinko's scene

Not sure why my edit which irrefutably dated the Guetta-Shepard meeting footage to the year 2000 was tagged with conflict of interest and then removed, but I'll give it one more shot. To clear up a few things, the reference link is to what will remain an anonymous, one-post, Wordpress blog, out of which I want nothing more than to share the facts. Judging from the edits below, people want to know them.

The page doesn't qualify as original research, it's universally available map and film footage which is simply aggregated to one page for side by side comparison. It is FAR more reliable than another section reference - http://www.fastcompany.com/1616365/banksy-movie-prankumentary , which is pure speculation mixed with outright falsehoods. If we're going to allow trivial bits, like MBW being pushed in a wheelbarrow with a broken foot, to be construed as evidence of a prank, it seems ridiculous to remove cited, factual evidence against one prank theory. I feel that someone was just removing it because they disagreed with the implied conclusion. One more try, and then I'll leave it up to the hivemind. Jbtvt (talk) 23:04, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Wordpress blogs aren't considered reliable sources! LARPing aint easy (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

"User talk:Jbtvt From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [edit]Please stop adding linkspam Please don't add links to your blog to articles it's considered linkspamming. LARPing aint easy (talk) 00:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)"

The blog is not mine, as I said it's a one post blog, and only the medium to convey relevant new information! The "reliable source" is film footage itself, Google maps, and Bing maps! Do tell, how is one supposed to get information of this nature out? Would it be preferable if I wrote on the Wiki entry, "OK guys, press play on your copy of the film, fast forward to 14:41, now load up Google maps street view, type in..." You appear to care more about your personal interpretation of "the rules" than actually sharing factual information, which is what this is supposed to be about.

I also don't appreciate your moving this active discussion to the bottom of the talk page, unless you will also being reorganizing the entire page, since the placement below is far from chronological. If someone who would not be considered a "spammer" would care to share the info it would be appreciated. Jbtvt (talk) 01:38, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• The new threads are SUPPOSED to go to the bottom! Read this WP:TOPPOST. The fact you don't know this tells me you don't know too much about the policies here. LARPing aint easy (talk) 02:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
• Good God, how could I miss that!? Sandwiched in the middle of 10 pages of gibberish I couldn't care less about. The fact that you do know this tell me you don't know much else BESIDES the policies here. If the two types of people are viewers and doers, it's becoming clear to me who runs this show. So I'll leave you to it, and to argue over syntax of old information instead of breaking new ground.Jbtvt (talk) 23:38, 11 January 2011 (UTC)