Talk:Porky Pig

Original

Was Porky the original Looney Tunes character?

Looks like "Bosko" was the first character according to here

http://www.agsprint.com/~ktappe/wb/ David de Paoli

That's right: The insipid "Bosko", of "Sinkin' in the Bathtub", 1930.

[1]

Porky *was*, however, the original Looney Tunes star, defined as an actor who draws audience just by name power. --Steverapaport

"Bosko" was basically a Mickey Mouse knockoff. He also looked a lot like someone wearing "blackface" makeup. So he was a loser on several fronts. Wahkeenah 10:48, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Porcine Pig?

I was wondering about that myself. It turns out Porky was listed that way in the 1996 movie "Space Jam". Unless someone can demonstrate that name was used in the classic WB cartoons, I think it should stay permanently out of the article. Wahkeenah 23:47, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Porky gag film

I removed this bit:

A very short black-and-white cartoon from sometime in the late 1930s or 1940s, presumably intended as an in-house gag, was shown on the Warner Bros. 50th Anniversary TV show, illustrating the relaxation of language constraints over the years. Porky is on a rooftop, nailing shingles, when he smacks his thumb with the hammer. Grimacing in pain, he cries, "Son of a bi-bi-bi-, son of a bi-bi-bi-, son of a bi-bi-bi-... gun!" He then turns to the camera, drops his stutter, and says, "You thought I was going to say 'son of a bitch', didn't you?!"

This little cartoon gets mentioned here every once in a while. I'm inclined to see it as mere trivia; why does it belong in the article? But this particular paragraph on it is troubling more for its original research. The word "presumably" is a red flag, and the bit "illustrating the relaxation of language constraints over the years" seems to be an interpretation that is not backed up with a source citation. For the moment, I've moved the paragraph here. — Amcaja (talk) 05:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why you have a problem with this. It was on the WB 50th Anniversary Show as well as the videotape they sold of that show. You don't like "presumably"? Well, take it out. That's speculation, but the rest is factual. "Son of a bitch" was not permitted in films in those days, as you well know about the problems they had just getting "I don't give a damn" into Gone With the Wind. But even without those obvious facts, it's an interesting insight into how the WB cartoonists would amuse themselves. However, I'm guessing you don't think this thing actually exists. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 06:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

And now that I've seen it on YouTube (hey, that took all of 30 seconds to find) the description is not totally accurate, but the essence of it is true. [2] And I'm guessing your next complaint is about "copyright violation". There are always "policies" to hide behind when the real reason is that you just "don't like it." Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 06:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Why are you being so defensive? The paragraph sites no sources whatsoever and is trivia. That's why I "don't like it." — Amcaja (talk) 09:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The source cited wasn't acceptable per Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Who is this person? Is he a recognized expert on animation history? Does he have an editor or other oversight? Also, the Hays stuff is still speculation unless a source is sited. And I know what the Hays Code was, thank you. — Amcaja (talk) 13:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Then you know very well that profanity was not allowed under the Hays rules. Do I need a source that 2 + 2 = 4? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 16:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

What cracks me up is that Porky, for perhaps the first time, is able to say something completely stutter-free! How interesting! — Cinemaniac 19:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

He does stutter a little bit on "say", but he gets the important words out with no problem. The amazing thing, perhaps, is that Blanc was able to do a perfectly convincing stutter without having a speech impediment himself. Not everyone can do that. That's why they paid Mel the big bucks. In fact, they apparently wrote him a Blanc check. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

What needs a (reliable) source is the date of the film, even a speculative date of the film. If you can find something form Jerry Beck or Charles Solomon or Michael Barrier or any of a half-dozen other respected animation historians, that states that the film was made and shown during the Hays era, that would be fine. I'm just wary of trusting some guy's personal webpage/blog. — Amcaja (talk) 23:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

That's certainly understandable. But, if I remember amazon.com correctly, the Looney Tunes Golden Collection: Volume 4 contains this short blooper as one of its bonus features. (I myself was unfortunately not able to get that volume, and I have yet to acquire the fifth one. But also from what I know, that gag film has been released on a few other DVDs as well.) Maybe if we cite that the cartoon is available on the fourth Looney Tunes Golden Collection volume... Will that be a good enough reliable source?

Regarding the date: If memory serves me right, the gag film was made in either 1938 or 1939. I'll try and obtain the exact date of the film by asking Jerry Beck or Michael Barrier, or by going to http://cartoonbrew.com , or by simply searching on Google. —Cinemaniac 23:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well... A quick Google search warranted these answers: A) A film including this blooper film of Porky's was released in West Germany on March 29, 1985; B) The intentional blooper was released on The Looney Tunes Golden Collection: Volume 4 under the title Porky's Breakdowns; and C) The gag reel was also included in a bonus feature on a recent DVD set of Warner Bros. 1939 film Each Dawn I Die; the special feature's title was Breakdowns of 1939, a blooper reel released around that time. Breakdowns of 1939 featured, interestingly, the Merrie Melodies opening theme song (Merrily We Roll Along) during the opening credits . — Cinemaniac 01:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Good work! Let's cite either the Golden Collection DVD (presuming it includes a date for the short), or the Each Dawn I Die DVD as the source where the date of the film is given. Of course, it would be best if one of us actually viewed the DVD in person first, but I can't do that from Japan very easily without a long ordering process.

The whole article is pretty much unsourced, I notice. This is my fault; I wrote most of this stuff waaaay back when Wikipedia was still new and there were no source citation guidelines. It's mostly from Schneider's That's All Folks!! if I remember correctly. — Amcaja (talk) 04:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Slight mistake on my part: The song playing over the opening credits of the Breakdowns reels is The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down, NOT Merrily We Roll Along. How I got that edit wrong, I dunno. — Cinemaniac 12:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Outstanding, nonetheless. And good for you for doing the work instead of bickering about it (note to self). :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have always assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this little clip was actually shown at some Termite Terrace or Warner Brothers Christmas party. It's in black & white, showing an adult Porky Pig. (The character was in two-tone color by the time he was an adult, IIRC.) I don't think it was intended for a public release. In fact, the first time I saw it was on USA Network's Night Flight show, back in the late 70's, with some bloopers from Warner Bros movies of the same era. 05:29 AM, 3 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.183.13.64 (talk)

That show you saw might very well have been the "Breakdown" WB blooper reels, or some variant thereof, that have been discussed above. I guess people really like watching popular stars curse. :)

BTW, remember to sign your comments. I also recommend you sign up for an original account, that way nobody confuses you with somebody else that might be using your IP address. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 22:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

It was also shown (just the "good" take, not the other takes) on the Warner Bros. 50th anniversary TV show. The DVD doesn't explain where it came from, but I'm sure it was done by the boys at Termite Terrace to amuse themselves, as the IP address suggests. They used to slip frames into the cartoons that would show something maybe off-color, and no one would notice it, kind of their own "Easter egg" to themselves. The complete version in the DVD is especially funny because it postulates that Porky is a "live" actor, and that he has trouble getting this little scene done. Obviously, in reality, it is not possible for a cartoon "blooper" to exist by accident, someone has to draw it on purpose. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

A vintage blooper reel, Breakdowns of 1941, can be found on the third disc of the three-disk special edition 2006 DVD release of The Maltese Falcon. While there are no animated "bloopers" featured in this reel, it does include The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down over its opening credits. It looks like the boys from Termite Terrace had some influence even outside the lot. :-) Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Blue Christmas

Am I missing something? Why is an Elvis Christmas song relevant to Porky Pig? — Amcaja (talk) 00:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Because Porky apparently did a cover of it. However, the excessive wording on that song's page looks like an attempt at self-promotion. If so, it should all be zapped. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 13:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not bitter

at being reverted, but I wish the restored language didn't include the cringeworthy phrase "it's accompanying characteristic". —Tamfang (talk) 06:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to explain to the rest of us just what you're trying to get at. Like provide some diff's or something. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 09:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay. Here's the language to which User:FMAFan1990 has now twice reverted:

He is also known for his severe stutter and its accompanying characteristic of changing his words mid-sentence, making something like "What's guh-guh-guh. . ." as if to say "Going on. . ." into "What's happening . . ."

"its accompanying characteristic" is flabby and suggests, if anything, that stuttering automatically goes with paraphrasing – in which case the latter is not worth mentioning. The ellipses (except the first, which is tolerable but not as good as a dash) are dead wrong: "What's going on?" or "What's happening?" is a full sentence; there's no reason to infer that further words are omitted, which is what an ellipsis means. Capitalizing "Going" is also dead wrong, as it does not begin a sentence.

I first proposed this:

He is also known for a severe stutter, which he sometimes escapes by resorting to a paraphrase, e.g.: "What's g-g-g-g- [going on] happening?"

Perhaps that was too compact. My second attempt was more modest:

He is also known for his severe stutter, which he sometimes compensates by changing his words mid-sentence, making something like "What's guh-guh-guh––" (as if to say "going on") into "What's happening?"

Either way, my proposed language says why he changes his words; perhaps FMAFan1990 considers that an impermissible inference (in which case "going on" should also be deleted). I also changed the first ellipsis to a dash, because that's the more common typographic convention for an interruption in dialog. The parentheses help clarify the sentence structure. —Tamfang (talk) 02:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I changed the wording. FMAFan1990 (talk) 02:37, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Slightly better. Any comment on punctuation? —Tamfang (talk) 04:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

"Th-th-th-that's all folks!"

The article currently states that Porky's signature closing like was "Th-th-th-that's all folks!" Is there a source for this? Because, I've never heard it this way. It always sounds to me like he's trying to start off with a different phrase, but, in Porky fashion, becomes frustrated when he can't get out his first thought and so switches to something simpler. To me, the phrase has always sounded like "Abadee-abadee-abadee-that's all, folks!" (I never could figure out what the "Abadee" was supposed to become--still, I never thought he was stuttering the relatively straightforward word "that's".) Robert K S (talk) 04:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Was there an alternate tag with another character saying some other phrase? That would tell us what Porky was trying to say. —Tamfang (talk) 20:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Back in the 30s they used to use a character that looked like a court jester or something, and he would straightforwardly say "That's all, folks!" with no stutter. And although it may sound like Porky is trying to say something else (like maybe "Bye, folks!") I don't recall ever seeing a source that said anything other than "Th-th-th-that's all folks!" Hence, putting our own spin it would be original research. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm....I remember the closed captioning of a DVD reading something similar to what Robert mentions above. I can't recall which exactly, though. But I'm pretty certain I have seen it as something else other than "Th-th-th-that's all, folks!" — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:47, 15 June 2009 (UTC)