Talk:Feral pig

Miscellaneous

Someone really should add info on the movie :-) Bastie 00:59, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

-- And something on the Marvel superhero would be fun. If a character as lame as 'Night Thrasher' -- doesn't that make you go blind? -- can have his own voluminous entry, surely Razorback should too.

-- I don't think it's specially interesting the date when they were introduced in North America...

-- I am a lifelong fan of the University of Arkansas, but Texas A&M Kingsville, previously Texas A&I University, is the Javelina, so the statement that the University of Arkansas is the only "university or major sports team with a porcine mascot" is not completely accurate. Rhogskin 12:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Good catch. I edited it to say "one of the only" instead of just "only". (Cardsplayer4life 06:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC))

but "one of the only" doesn't actually mean anything 193.63.239.165 16:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

-- I'd love to know where the name razorback came from. Is it their wiry hair? Is the hair sharp enough to cut like a razor? Do the tusks play some roll in the naming? Is there anything dangerous about this animal besides it's tusks? Just curious.

I believe it has to do with either their spine or the hairs growing along the length of it being raised into a ridge along their back, sort of like a natural mohawk.--Beetfarm Louie 17:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Size

I find it very hard to believe that a wild pig can be nine feet long and 1000 pounds. Karl Dickman ^talk 03:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

That does sound implausible. I found this reference [1] on MSNBC that says 12 feet and 1000 lbs, but there is decidedly little evidence except for one photo. Another reference is this one [2] from about.com which mentions an 8 foot, 800 lb one, but again, little supporting evidence is available. I added these two references and changed the wording of the sentence to say "reportedly" to show some sort of ambiguity, but it still seems a bit fishy to me. (Cardsplayer4life 04:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Fifty years ago or so, I visited my great uncle’s farm. He had razorback hogs. They were huge, easily twice the height at the shoulder of a common pig, and twice the length. They had a sagital rise on their spine that might have been a foot or more tall. They had a dinosaur-like look. Uncle warned us not to sit on their fence. If we fell in, they would kill us, he said. I recall a weight of half a ton. Though, I do not remember where I heard that. My Flatley (talk) 11:46, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

cleanup

there is a lot of stuff in here that is uncited, and I don't know what's what. Can boars really fly through the air? Was the Hogzilla really a razorback? These are important questions

The line about Dimebag using the Dean Razorback guitar should be deleted. He designed it, but he was killed before they could deliver the final prototype to him. He never used it in concert or on any recordings.

124.181.140.1 (talk) 06:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Norse mythology?

Hello, in the last part of the intro, it talks about a mythological boar as being the possible origin of the name "razorback". I looked around and found an article on Gullinbursti, which is apparently a boar with a glowing mane... but the article mentions nothing about razor-sharp spines. In any case, the spelling is very different from "razorback" or the "glo-so" mentioned in this article. Does anybody know if this etymology is correct? --Kyoko 15:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Unconsidered Possibility

With all this confusion on the origins of razorback or "feral" hogs, doesn't it seem likely that these pigs, though some could be hybrids, may actually be indigenous to North America? That Sus Scrofa could've crossed the Bering Strait like so many Eurasion species, and could've been an inhabitant of grasslands, like the red fox, maintaining the plains from encroaching seedlings, and only spread throughout the continent in the wake of deforested areas. It's possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.202.135.128 (talk) 03:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there any article, or document putting forth this proposal? The European colonists did not see any wild pigs in North America. Why else would they go through the trouble of introducing them?Mariomassone (talk) 18:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Feral or Wild

This article defines the Razorback as "feral". However the article on Feral defines it as follows: A feral organism is one that has escaped from domestication and returned, partly or wholly, to a wild state.

Wild Boar (so presumably Razorbacks) do not meet this definition. They are the wild population from which domestic pigs were domesticated in the first place, not domesticated pigs returned to a wild state. Merlin Cox (talk) 18:33, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I think you have a good point, but I also suspect it may be a complicated mix. Wild boar and domesticated pigs can freely interbreed, and both have been released/escaped into the wild at various times.92.18.67.254 (talk) 22:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree, and have changed the lead accordingly. I've also removed some dubious alternative names - if I'm wrong about any of them can someone please reinsert relevant ones. Obscurasky (talk) 00:10, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Environmental Concerns?

I think someone needs to add the environmental implications of the introduction and continual population growth of Razorbacks to the Americas. So far there's just a tiny sentence about it being an invasive species in Brazil. In some parts of North America, wild hogs are becoming a big problem. 67.190.163.77 (talk) 01:04, 7 June 2010 (UTC)Azalea

Merge proposal

Razorback and Wild boar are both about the same species, so I propose they be merged. Back on the Chain Gang (talk) 01:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Isn't a "razorback" a domestic pig gone feral?
Farseer-Lolotea (talk) 05:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

If razorbacks are indeed pure wild boar, introduced as wild animals to N America without admixture from escaped domestic swine, then yes, the articles ought to be merged. However, if they are mostly or partly feral domestic pigs, then no, clearly they ought to be separate articles. From the photo, they don't look the same, and the detail of the article seems to make it very clear that they are not. Incidentally, the image used in this article (File:Wild Pig KSC02pd0873.jpg) is also used in the wild boar article to illustrate feral pigs, and it can't be both... Either way we need a ref, and I've tagged the lead para accordingly.

Feral pig currently redirects to the feral pig section of Wild boar. If razorbacks are indeed feral pigs, then I suggest that instead of merging as above, this much fuller article is moved to Feral pig, and the Wild boar feral section is shortened and given a "main article" tag. Richard New Forest (talk) 22:23, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Razorbacks are not Wild Boar. They are either feral pigs or pig/boar hybrids, depending on what region you're discussing. Steven Walling 23:16, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved due to lack of consensus for move. Also, there are unresolved issues about the topic of this article. Born2cycle (talk) 20:48, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

---

Requested move

Razorback → Feral pig — Following from earlier discussion, "feral pig" is a more widely applicable name. Feral pig is currently a redirect to a section in Wild boar. Propose merging this with Razorback, leaving a summary and a "main article" link in Wild boar. Richard New Forest (talk) 09:58, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• Support Feral pig is the more encyclopedic name, and the current redirect is inappropriate since the vast majority of feral pigs are not Wild Boar, but are of a similar breeding to Razorbacks. Steven Walling 19:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• Support I agree, although the term 'Razorback' is in common use and this must be acknowledged/reflected within the text. Obscurasky (talk) 21:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes: it would say something like "feral pig, known in North America as razorback and in New Zealand as Captain Cooker". If as I suspect it is also known inaccurately as a "wild boar" in North America (which would explain some of the confusion above), we could also explain that. Richard New Forest (talk) 09:24, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose because a razorback is a kind of feral pig, but not all feral pigs are razorbacks. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 04:10, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

How does it differ from other feral pigs? And even if it does, why not just have a section on razorbacks in Feral pig? Richard New Forest (talk) 20:11, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

As stated on this talk page in the following section, "razorback" as used in North America is ambiguous. It generally means a wild boar, or a hybrid between wild boar and feral domestic pig. The razorback is a wild or feral pig with a remarkable amount of relatively long coarse hair. In many places, particularly on islands, there are feral pigs that are derived exclusively from domestic pigs and resemble domestic pigs in having short, fine hair. They are not razorbacks. I would have no objection to putting a section about razorbacks on a page about feral pigs, except that "razorback" also refers to wild boar. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 22:45, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

So is that a "support"...? Richard New Forest (talk) 18:03, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

'64.105.65.28' makes a couple of good points above. If he is correct, when he says that 'not all feral pigs [in N.America] are razorbacks', this will need careful explanation and citations.

The fact that 'razorback' can also be used to refer to both feral pigs and wild boar in N.America could also be troublesome. The reference to razorbacks was removed from the wild boar page; either this was inappropriate, or reference to razorbacks should not appear on a feral pig page either - in other words it should stay as a page in its own right. Obscurasky (talk) 12:35, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I've not seen anything to indicate that there are any pure-bred wild boar in North America. Everything seems to point to feral pigs in North America being various mixes of domestic pig and wild boar, with at least some (and perhaps all) of them being called razorbacks. Everything I have seen indicates that at least some (and perhaps all) feral pigs found in other parts of the world are razorbacks under another name. If we have one thing, it should have one article. Only if there really is a consistent difference between razorbacks and other feral pigs could separate articles be justified, but at present it seems clear that razorbacks are at most a kind of feral pig, and I think all the razorback material would fit comfortably into a section in Feral pig. We can't have a separate article just because one dialect uses a different term: that would be a dictionary definition. So:

• Are there any pure-bred wild boar in North America? If so, what are they called?
• Does the thing called razorback in North America occur elsewhere?
• Are all feral pigs in North America called razorbacks?
• If not, what is the difference?
• If they are somewhat different, aren't they nevertheless similar enough to be combined in one article?

Richard New Forest (talk) 17:09, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Any takers for these questions? I think the answers would help our decision. Richard New Forest (talk) 17:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

• Support move, but I'm not quite sure what the new term should be. As a native speaker of American English, I don't consider "razorback" to be the primary U.S. term for this kind of animal. (If you had asked me "What's a razorback?" outside the context of this page, I'd probably say "the University of Arkansas mascot.") In the Smoky Mountains and other parks near where I live, the animals resulting from interbreeding of wild boar and domestic pigs are most commonly referred to as "wild hogs," "feral hogs," and "wild boar." For example, see: [3], [4], [5], [6], This website for a national park in California calls them "wild pigs." This other California national park site discusses "feral pigs," referring to domestic pigs gone wild. This state of Wisconsin webpage says "Feral pigs (Sus scrofa), also known as wild pigs, wild hogs, wild boars, European wild boars, Russian wild boars, or razorbacks, are rangy-looking non-native members of the domestic swine family, Suidae." --Orlady (talk) 23:04, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

• I support moving Razorback (disambiguation) to Razorback, and splitting the content now on Razorback between two or more articles. The content about "razorback meaning feral pig" should go into Feral pig and "razorback meaning wild boar" should go into Wild boar. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 16:36, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

That's fine, but as I said above, are there any pure wild boar in America? If not, all razorbacks must be some kind of feral pig. Richard New Forest (talk) 17:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there are or have been pure wild boar living in the wild in North America, but they are not native species. I think one source of confusion about native wild pigs in North America is the fact that North America has a native species that looks like a pig: the collared peccary or javelina (Tayassu tajacu). Another source of confusion is the release of non-native, non-domesticated species (eg the "Russian razorback") of pigs into the wild. Those pigs are wild pigs, not feral pigs, but they have contributed their ancestry to multiple lines of feral pigs. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 17:42, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

To clarify, "Russian razorback" is an American common name for a Eurasian species of wild boar. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 17:44, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

European wild boar were imported to several locations in North America and released for the pleasure of hunters. This is discussed in several of the references that I cited above (for example, this newspaper article). The animals discussed in the article are the progeny of interbreeding between these wild boar and feral domestic pigs. I'm not aware of javelina being involved. --Orlady (talk) 17:59, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Better definition required

I'm not sure the lede is totally accurate. Is a Razorback a specific 'type' of pig? My understanding is that the word is an Americanism, applied to any type of wild hog. Obscurasky (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

You are correct. Usually it means a feral pig most closely related to the domestic pig, but the term is often applied to any type of wild hog. Steven Walling 23:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I've changed the lede, but I think it needs building on. Would someone authoritative on the subject care to add someting. Thx. Obscurasky (talk) 15:42, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Boar (disambiguation)

A requested move concerning Boar (disambiguation) and Boar is being discussed now at Talk:Boar (disambiguation). 69.3.72.9 (talk) 19:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Navigation box for pigs

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Template:Pigs. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 20:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

• Now Template:Pigs. – Athaenara ✉ 02:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Pig disambiguation

There are discussions in progress on Talk:Pig (disambiguation) and Talk:Pig which affect this page. Please participate there (not here). Thank you. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 20:56, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Subject of article

The discussion above about moving Razorback to Feral pig has been closed (considerably prematurely in my view). The reason given for a "no move, no consensus" decision was "unresolved issues about the topic of this article". Can we now resolve them please?

So far it seems to me that we have established that all or most feral pigs in North America are called razorbacks, and there seems no indication of any difference between these and other feral pigs.

The only other thing for which the name is used is the "Russian razorback", which seems to be an American name for the wild boar, and so is not the same thing as the animal covered by this article. Richard New Forest (talk) 22:05, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Richard New Forest wrote "So far it seems to me that we have established that all or most feral pigs in North America are called razorbacks, and there seems no indication of any difference between these and other feral pigs." That is not my reading of the discussion above. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 22:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

What is your reading of it then? Richard New Forest (talk) 10:04, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Wild boar distribution

The page Razorback should be a disambiguation page, not an article nor a redirect to another article or section. "Razorback" meaning a pig may refer to a species of wild boar not native to North America, members of that species escaped in North America, and their descendants. Not all feral pigs in North America are descendants of Russian razorbacks. However, "razorback" in vernacular use sometimes refers to any feral pig. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 17:49, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I think that might very well be a way forward. Presumably we could then have a new article at Feral pig?

(Incidentally, I'm not sure that the "wild boar" distribution map is all that reliable. It's apparently not just for wild boar but for the whole Sus scrofa species, in which case it would include feral pigs other than wild boar. It omits several populations altogether: NZ, S America, southern Africa, Caribbean. Finally it does not seem to give any sources – I also notice it is not reffed where it appears on Wild boar.)

Richard New Forest (talk) 22:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

javaporcos?

What is this word, and what does it refer to? In context in the article as it stands, it means "Wild Boar/Domestic Pig cross", but the word itself is a combination of the spanish word for peccary (Javalina) and the Spanish word for pig (Porco), which, it has been pointed out, is very far-fetched as the two aren't even in the same family, although a non-expert could be forgiven for thinking that they should be able to cross, looking like two types of pig on the face of them. My guess is that it's a Spanish word for a mythical Peccary/Pig cross. I've Googled around for the word, and can find nothing to convince me personally that the word even exists. Let's get rid of it! Chrisrus (talk) 04:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)