Talk:Malcolm X/Archive 6

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Leaving the Nation of Islam

I am trying to learn why he left, especially why there was apparently such rancor against his leaving. These sentences are not helping me: After he left the Nation of Islam, Malcolm X began to articulate his own views. During the final year of his life, his philosophy was flexible, and it is difficult to categorize his views on some subjects. Some of the themes to which Malcolm X frequently returned in his speeches demonstrate a relative consistency of thought. This strikes me as obfuscation, intentional or otherwise. Do we know what aspects of Nation teachings he rejected? Rumiton (talk) 14:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll try to clarify the article over the next few days. In short, Malcolm X rejected the idea that the Nation of Islam's teachings were Islam and that Elijah Muhammad was a holy man. He also rejected the view that white people were devils; he said that people should be judged by their actions, not by the color of their skin.

Part of the rancor toward Malcolm X was due to his incessant public criticism of Elijah Muhammad. Leaders of the Nation of Islam described him as a traitor who was worthy of death, and many NOI members agreed. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:37, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, that's interesting. If we can express it that succinctly without straying from sources, the article will thank us. Rumiton (talk) 14:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

It still reads as confused. I don't know enough about the subject to work on it myself, but I am happy to help. Rumiton (talk) 13:56, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I think the Independent views section is causing the most confusion. With other editors' agreement I would like to work on it. As I know little about the subject, my revision will be a test of the article's coherence. Rumiton (talk) 09:48, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

For those Watching this page

I have opened a RSN case on the Bruce Perry Book as it smells funny to me It can be found here Weaponbb7 (talk) 04:26, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:30, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Meeting King Faisal

The Autobiography of Malcolm X, Chapter 17, apparently tells us that King Faisal lent him a car to do his Hajj with. Did this happen without their meeting? (Just asking.) Rumiton (talk) 09:11, 12 August 2010 This is the link again: (UTC) http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/malcolmx/section8.rhtml Rumiton (talk) 10:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Malcolm X met Faisal's son during his hajj (April 1964), but I can't find any source that indicates Malcolm X met Faisal during the UN general assembly meeting in September 1960. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 17:10, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

OK, but it seems strange that the king lent him a car for a journey on which he met the prince, but he never met the king himself. Rumiton (talk) 10:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I just re-read the relevant portion of the Autobiography. Malcolm X did meet Faisal as well as his son during his hajj. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I added it (perhaps a bit clumsily) to the pilgrimage section. It could use a page number and a tidying up. Rumiton (talk) 14:03, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Lede image

I think the current lede image is not the best image available. The current shot is up his nose, and not a good image for the lede IMHO, though it works well with the gunshot holes image below. I would like to see if anybody else thinks the one with him looking to his right, and seated is better for the lede. — GabeMc (talk) 04:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing myself. The previous photo was not only better technically and aesthetically, it was also infinitely more recognizable. I would bring it back and move the new photo to somewhere amid the 1964-65 section. SteveStrummer (talk) 05:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Let's see what Malik thinks first. — GabeMc (talk) 05:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't really care which pictures are used. When the article was promoted to featured status, it had this picture in the infobox, which happens to be from the press conference at which Malcolm X announced his departure from the NOI. But as I wrote, I'm not partial to any particular image. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:15, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Can we get this image reversed so Malcolm is right facing? — GabeMc (talk) 00:26, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not a good idea, it's kind of meddling with evidence. Left-right orientation can be important. Rumiton (talk) 10:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Name in Arabic all wrong

Arabic is read from right-to-left. Even so the way the name is written in Arabic does not match how it's been written here in English even if you read the Arabic backwards. The Arabic reads: الشباز الحاجّ مالك ‎(=El-Shabazz El-Hajj Malik) where as the English says it is "El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz" (= الحاجّ مالك الشباز). After meddling with the page a bit I've come to the conclusion it's a problem with the line break that arises depending on the size of the window. Decreasing and Increasing the size of the window I've found that the order of the names are correct at a certain width, but wrong at others. I don't write Arabic script on the computer so I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps some other editor knows what to do. Rlinfinity (talk) 16:42, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Where can I find his speech about the comparison of house-negroes and field-negroes?

I think that this was the most important speech he ever made when speaking about the house-negroes and the field-negroes. Why do we not integrate it in the article or at least link to the speech? --188.46.45.30 (talk) 22:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I first heard it on a vinyl record I borrowed from a library, "Malcolm X: message to the grass roots" I believe. — GabeMc (talk) 22:57, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Here is a YouTube link, but we would need a reputable source to tell us about it, especially as his early radicalism was very much tempered later in life. Rumiton (talk) 14:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

The speech is important enough that it has its own article. See Message to the Grass Roots. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 08:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

(malxom x biography ) mistake

Hi. There are a number of things about the House Negro - Field Negro speech that are interesting. Firstly, the great film of it is now no longer on youtube. A shame. You can at least see the reactions of people as he moves them from anger to humour and back again like a master. Secondly, the latest time I've seen the speech (he made it frequently) was 4th Feb 1965.... Can this be true? I'd love to know because by this time he'd had his damascene conversion and in that speech he's extemely nasty about non-violence practitioners.. (CORE, SNCC et al were extremely tough and brave young people - how he could equate MLK and them as traitors is breathtakingly awful...I'd therefore be extremely grateful if anyone could tell me the last time he made the speech..Imagine where he could have led SNCC, Stokely and the Black Panthers if he hadn't been ASSASSINATED...? 1969 with MLK & him alive. Lord. Philthegeordie@hotmail.co.uk for any definitive times for the last FN/HN speech. Much appreciated. {{edit semi-protected}}

Noormubarak (talk) 12:40, 25 December 2010 (UTC) it is mentioned in Malxom X biography that during his youth, he was involved in sex with men for money. this is totally a lie. out of respect for a man who died fighting for morals and human values, remove this disgusting unrelevent and misleading point.

 Not done: Please see this and earlier archived discussions. The Wikipedia article simply reports what an apparently reliable source says, and notes that other biographers have not made the same claim. Unless you have a good reason for believing this to be untrue, there's no reason to remove it. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 14:30, 25 December 2010 (UTC)