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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Blueman33 (talk | contribs) at 10:47, 7 April 2011 (→User:Rikster2 -- Inappropriate behavior and personal attacks: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

    Welcome to wikiquette assistance
    Wikiquette assistance is a forum where editors who feel they are being treated uncivilly can request assistance. The goal here is to help all parties in a situation come to a mutually agreeable solution. It is designed to function via persuasion, reason, and community support, rather than threats or blocks.
    • Your first resort should be a polite attempt to discuss the problem with the other editor(s).
    • No binding decisions are issued here. If you seek blocks or bans, see WP:ANI instead.
    		 Sections older than 5 days archived by MiszaBot II.
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    Please notify any users involved in a dispute. You may use {{subst:WQA-notice}} to do so.
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    Active alerts

    User Uirauna

    This user has been manipulating and reverting the Iran-Iraq War page both under his own name and under other sockpuppets. He has multiple aliases, as you can clearly see by the way he writes. All accounts use similar wordings and sentence structures, in that the posts are made up of similar grammatical English styles. He has also been asked several times not to throw words such as vandalism around so liberally, as he clearly doesn't understand how it applies to various scenarios. He tends to put down editors and get his own way by accusing them of vandalism etc, when he doesn't want them to write about certain topics. Most likely the topics conflict with his own agenda.

    Lately, he has resorted to personal attacks against me. See his latest posting on the discussion section of the Iran-Iraq war page. Please consider this a formal complaint. This user has difficulty accepting the current agreed consensus amongst the various editors. Kind Regards (RobVanden 06:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robvanden (talk • contribs)

    This is probably a retaliation from my previous complaint here: [1]. The user is a proven and blocked sockpuppet (process here: [2]) who fails to be civil and respect WP rules. I stand by my actions so far, I have done no such personal attacks (actually, I believe I didn´t, I´m quite carefull not to be offensive to anyone). Rob, if you think I have sockpuppets, please open a complaint at WP:RFCU. Thank you. Uirauna (talk) 14:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Robvanden (talk · contribs)

    Resolved

    This user, first editing as IP User:27.32.51.171 and then creating his current account has from the beggining being completely uncivil to other editors. As can be ssen on his contributions as an IP he called other editors "dickhead", "revisionist Anglo Saxon", did severe POV-pushing and edit warring (with comments such as "You wish to suggest otherwise, and I won't let you. It's as simple as that", "You have no say in this matter if you're not an Iranian", "Who do you think you are..!?").

    I was civil to him, asked him not to insult other users and to avoid making accusations and personal offenses (as well as asking him to read basic rules of WP): [3], [4], [5], [6]. As his new user, he kept his behaviour, making false accusations (of me having puppets) and personal offenses such as "You just got used to getting your own way on everything thus-far. I'm here to tell you, that has come to an end.", "I know you have your own agenda for this article. You won’t be successful; I can assure you of that.", "You sound like a 5 year old kid who starts sulking if he doesn't get his way.", "stop pushing your agenda on the article with different aliases", "don't use words so liberally which you have no idea what they really mean", "you sure are a stubborn person, just let it go man" and "You don't really know what you are talking about when it comes to this war".

    I´ve tried to resolve the issue politely, asked him to stop personal attacks and disruptive behaviour but I do not wish to enter into a dispute or an edit-war, so I´ve just let the issue rest on the article and came here for help. His edits can be seen on both of the articles linked above. Thank you. Uirauna (talk) 04:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    He has been given an only warning.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:09, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Hi Jasper

    This user Uirauna has now resorted to personal attacks of his own against me. Please remind him of the rules of WP. It has been suggested also that he is using sockpuppets under different names to advance his own personal agenda for the Iran - Iraq war article. He's also been asked several times not to use big words so liberally in an area that he lacks academic knowledge. Please remind him of the rules. Cheers. (RobVanden 06:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robvanden (talk • contribs)

    Uncivility in WP:EAR

    This user, whom I had never met before, has been (ab)using of the public space shown above to make insults and spread libelous rumours about myself: "an editor who appears motivated by his political sympathies only", "his cantankerous tendencies", "addicted to unbalanced behaviour and wild charges", "a long record of provocative behaviour", among other 'compliments'. I would like some assistance from the administrators in at least letting him know that such behaviour is wrong (Wikipedia:No personal attacks) and should not be tolerated. RafaAzevedo msg 11:20, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    I have warned the user.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:01, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Unfortunately, I do not understand the necessity of the warning, as I have since then, on my personal initiative, publicy asked for assistance from a third editor at his personal page(Dalillama) and agreed with him about working towards a consensus in two disputed articles. After that, I have stated my position in the discussion pages of the said articles (Paulo Francis and Landless Workers' Movement) yesterday, and expected to receive a comment on the changes proposed, not a warning about (far)anterior comments of a personal nature, which I believe were set aside for the sake of a working consensus. A visit to my contributions page will be enough to show the chronological sequence of the events described Cerme (talk) 16:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    PS: I will refrain from further editing of the disputed articles, until a solution is found about how to reach a consensus about then. My personal choice was and is to bank on Dilillama's assistanceCerme (talk) 16:36, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    It is no excuse to attack other editors.Jasper Deng (talk) 19:36, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Absolutely Cerme (talk) 20:27, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Promethean

    Resolved
     – No reply from Ebe for 5 days. Apology issued via Email, Page deleted and user warned by Fences and windows.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 07:48, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Promethean has been reviewing me at my editor review and he was uncivil. I was not minding it just to the user did more still on my editor review. ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 16:51, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Four possibilities:
    1. It might be useful to listen to what he says, and you can overlook how he says it: this does not appear to be the case, since you've come here.
    2. It might be useful to listen to what he says, but you don't want to because of how he says it: then delete his comments (it's your editor review), ignore him, at the risk of missing out on some useful info.
    3. He isn't saying anything useful, but you can overlook how he says it: this does not appear to be the case, but if it were, the solution is, again, to ignore him.
    4. He isn't saying anything useful, and you don't want to hear it because of how he says it: then delete his comments (it's your editor review), ignore him, and you aren't even risking missing out on some useful info.
    I've found that Options #3 and #4 are most common with Promethean, but note that in all four cases, the solution isn't to come here. The solution is to stop talking to him, delete his comments if you wish, and if he doesn't take the hint and keeps pestering you after you stop talking to him, then come here and ask someone to get him to stop. Saying things in a stupid way, so that the person you're talking to is not inclined to listen, is his weakness, not yours. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:13, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Done possibility 3 4.
    Done ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 17:38, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    What I said Stands: However blunt my review was, it was true and accurate to the picture I and several others have accertained of this user. His inability to take in the review on its merits and admit he wants to 'get up there' way to fast is disappointing but will only hurt his prospects of doing just that. Regarding the removal, What I said doesn't need to be on the page because it's something that is blatantly clear and will come up in any RFA. I myself have watchlisted future RFA's from this user and will air my concerns there as it seems that the Editor Review process isnt made for bad things to be said about a person, however true they are. As for ACC right whoring, the tool admins are also well aware of your history and I doubt they will be changing thier position any time soon though I have no say in this. Though I find it funny that no reference to the removed review, however blunt it was, was made on the page (IE "Review by Promethean removed" with a link to the diff) and some will view this as a perversion of the Wikipedia namespace (you don't own Wikipedia namespace pages) and the Editor Review process. I have put the review on the talk page per convention such as those at RFA. So yes, the outcomes are perfect and everything is as it should be.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 02:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd also like to say that whilst my Review was 100x more blunt than BelovedFreak's, we both mentioned the 'desperate to get power' image that people have of Ebe, so to say its completly unuseful when two people have said it and Ebe has ignored it is a failure to take critism on his part. Ebe needs to understand Im not gaining anything here and this whole process isnt doing me any harm, however, if he doesnt think to himself "Geez two people are saying this now I wonder why they think of me this way" then that is his loss, not mine.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 02:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The editor review process asks for constructive criticism, but doesn't give a carte blanche to be rude to someone, whatever their faults. Given that Ebe was following Floquenbeam's advice in deleting your comment, it seems unfair to harangue him about it on his talk page [7] - an editor review isn't really the equivalent of an RFA. I can see that you hoped your review would help Ebe improve, but now you've made your point, I can't see the harm in letting the post disappear.--Physics is all gnomes (talk) 12:15, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    As far as Harangue'ing Ebe about the removal, which is a bit of a stretch, I was more annoyed at the fact he opened a Wikiquette Alert (which is a discussion), notified me about it and then posted on my page that the "discussion is over" an hour later after he saw Floquenbeam's contribution before I could even get my 2 cents in or address his concerns which I agree to some extent are valid. You can add to his editor review that he needs to understand how Wikiquette Alerts works in future. Also note that posting messages on specific people's talk pages with the heading "Come and Help" smacks of Canvassing and makes this sound like a gang up session of friends. With all this being said I have happily disengaged from the editor review itself, but will maintain that the removed review should remain on the talkpage for the record.   «l| Promethean ™|l»  (talk) 17:17, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Promethean's misbehavior on other topics is also under discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Promethean_attacking_science_fiction_conventions_en_masse. Raul654 (talk) 01:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Will Beback and Sam Vaknin

    User:Will Beback seems to be rampaging through Wikpedia wiping out all Sam Vaknin material, thus undoing hard work done by various people, and also unnecessarily trimming See Alsos.--Penbat (talk) 09:23, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Can you specify what exactly is wrong with this series of edits? If you specify what exactly is wrong, it'll be easier to understand what this alert is for. SilverserenC 09:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Its not the Sam Vaknin article itself which is the problem its the fact that he has annihilated pretty much all Sam Vaknin material from other articles - see Special:Contributions/Will_Beback--Penbat (talk) 09:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The material I removed is from self-published sources. While editors may disagree with that policy, or my interpretation of it, I don't see this as a Wikiquette issue. Maybe we should discuss this at WP:RSN?   Will Beback  talk  09:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    just because a small proportion of his work is self-published that is no excuse to anihilate him from Wikipedia. He has also been involved in countless third-party publications and his opinion is commonly sought in high profile journals and newspapers. Also quite a few of the refs used in other articles to his work are third party refs by others.--Penbat (talk) 09:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Its one of the drawbacks of a publication like Wikipedia, Penbat. What might be perfectly reasonable in another encyclopedia is not allowed here (in my opinion because it limits Wikipedia's lawsuit exposure). -- Avanu (talk) 23:20, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    If I've made any errors I'd be happy to fix them. Can you point to the non-SPS citations which I deleted?   Will Beback  talk  09:44, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Unfortunately, rather than discuss it further Penbat1 is just reverting my edits without explanation.   Will Beback  talk  10:14, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that at least some, probably all, of these sources should be removed. There's no justification, for example, in citing Vaknin's (or anyone else's) self-published material in Empire. See WP:SPS for when we're allowed to use that kind of material. I also agree that this isn't the place to discuss it. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 12:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    As we all know, selfpub sources WP:SELFPUB are permitted on Wikipedia depending on how and when they are used. Therefore, a blanket deletion of a self pub source would be improper. At the same time, WBB has said he is willing to repair any mistakes, so if specific diffs could be provided then the situation could be corrected as needed.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:18, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed. Slef-published material as acceptable and not grounds in and of itself for removal. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:47, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    It's grounds for removal when it violates WP:SPS, which is policy, and all or most of these edits did violate it. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:06, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Which of user willbebacks edits violated policy ? Off2riorob (talk) 17:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Not Will's; he was removing the SPS, correctly, but was reverted. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Are there any edit restrictions in this area, perhaps related to associated sectors that user willbeback is closely associated to editing in, such as Transcendental Meditation, or associated sectors or attached to the sector of LaRouche movement? - It would imo and others that user willbeback would better remove himself from the areas he is associated with and begin editing in areas he is uninvolved in long term association with. Off2riorob (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you mean, Rob. The situation is that someone has added an SPS to lots of articles unnecessarily, where there are plenty of other appropriate sources. It looks like spamming. So Will removed some of it, and was reverted. He shouldn't have been reverted, because the material violated SPS. Then for reasons I still don't understand, it was reported here. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I am looking at the bigger picture - User:Willbeback is a single purpose account editing in support of his own POV across a well known sector of articles and issues, this is exactly the reason a good faith editor has found reason to report him here. Off2riorob (talk) 17:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I strongly disagree with your assessment of Will as an SPA. :) He correctly removed spam. There's no need for a discussion about it here, because the policy is clear about this kind of source, and it was added to articles the source had no remote connection to. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 18:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I know you respect him and support him and that you both edit in some associated fields such as Larouche (diff available if required} but this is worthy of a read - User:Antandrus/observations on Wikipedia behavior - 'Beware of users so in love with their own virtue, that they are incapable of recognizing when it has become vice; and so in love with their own eloquence, that they can not see when it has become hypocrisy. The former are those who never admit to any wrong, but yet demand apologies from others for the lapses of judgement to which all human beings are prone; and the latter are the blindest and most intractable of POV-pushers. Skill with words correlates neither with virtue nor wisdom' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs)
    It's good advice, which applies to us all. I think this is best closed, because it's clearly inappropriate on this page, and the spamming (or whatever it is) does need to stop—including in the interests of the author himself, who it's worth making clear isn't responsible for it. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 18:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Vaknin's material is frequently cited by academics in the field of narcissism etc. see: [8][9][10][11])[12]) I also happen to know that the following books all reference or cite Vaknin:

    • Lisa E. Scott, He's So Vain He Can't See You (2008) p. 8
    • Frank H. Columbus/Serge P. Shohow, Advances in Psychology Research, Vol 31 (2004) p. 5
    • Simon Crompton, All About Me: Loving a Narcissist (London 2007) p. 31
    • David Thomas Narcissism: Behind The Mask (2010) p. 28
    • Ronningstam, Elsa F. Identifying and Understanding the Narcissistic Personality (2005) (can't remember the page number)

    Vaknin's views on narcissism are considered to be high profile enough to be featured in various articles in the quality press such as "Adrian Tempany When narcissism becomes pathological Financial Times September 4 2010" and in "Yvonne Roberts The monster in the mirror The Sunday Times September 16, 2007" where his opinions are included together with those of other luminaries. See also Megalomaniacs abound in politics/medicine/finance Business Day 2011/01/07 which refers to Vaknin as an "expert" and the first "expert" mentioned by name and the second named "expert" Dr Jose Romero-Urcelay a UK forensic psychiatrist and director of therapies at the unit for dangerous and severe personality disorders at Broadmoor Hospital agrees with him.

    It defies any sort of common sense that there are many academic books that cite or reference Vaknin yet it is considered inappropriate that Wikipedia can do so. Are we also saying that the quality press such as the Sunday Times and Financial Times have got it wrong by interviewing Vaknin alongside other luminaries ? None of the above newspapers said we cant use him as he is SPS. It is hardly reasonable to find a third party citation of every paragraph that Vaknin has ever written. --Penbat (talk) 17:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    I've asked you to give examples of academics citing his research, and you've so far not done it. They sometimes mention him as an example of a sufferer, but that's not what's meant. And anyway, someone had added him to Empire and to an article about Russia. It looked like spamming, and it's not in his interests to do this, in case it looks as though he was the one who did it. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Penbat has been provided opportunity to explain why Will Beback should not have removed these edits and has failed to do so. This discussion thread should be closed. TFD (talk) 01:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that this may not be the best place to discuss this dispute, because personal attacks are not claimed. Figureofnine (talk) 14:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Samaleks

    User Samaleks had been targeting me by conducting several violations of Wikiquette.

    1. Samaleks had been going against WP:AGF consistently on my edits.
    2. Samaleks had been going against the principle of Work towards agreement, by refusing to admit valid arguments presented.
    3. Samaleks had been constantly alleging meat puppetry on myself and a few other editors active on these pages, violating the principle of Argue facts, not personalities.
    4. Samaleks, on some articles, had been constantly making false claims, where the references cited doesn't support them. At the same time, he dismissed valid references on some other pages. This is in violation of the principle of Do not make misrepresentations
    5. Samaleks constantly sidesteps the arguments raised, and repeats vague claims of the reference being mentioning the fact, ignoring requests to point out the specific part of the reference that does. This is in violation of the Do not ignore questions principle.
    6. Samalake has used terms in malayalam language that are slurs, violating the principle of Be Civil

    Some diffs here. Reading the Talk pages of the articles mentioned above shows a lot of examples of the consistent behaviour of this editor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Thiruvananthapuram&diff=prev&oldid=416542591

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Thiruvananthapuram&diff=prev&oldid=416923048

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Thiruvananthapuram&diff=prev&oldid=417377555

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=419391169

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=419751540

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=420249885

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:InfoPark,_Kochi&diff=prev&oldid=421665140

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Aarem&diff=prev&oldid=417801508

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DileepKS69&diff=prev&oldid=420994796

    http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bijuts&diff=prev&oldid=421843027


    Samaleks is a very senior editor, with a lot of good edits to his credit. It is really unfortunate that he is violating Wikiquettes like this. He could very well make positive contribution without resorting to these tactics, if he could forget his own biases and prejudices. I am not seeking any punitive measures by raising this alert. I only wish him to recognize his folly, and act according to Wikiquette.

    DileepKS(talk) 14:21, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]


    oh dear dileep, you was a great actor on wiki!!!. everyone knows about your discussions about wikipages of Kozhikode and Thiruvananthapuram on Kochinow forums. every one viewed it before you deleted that tread fom the forum as you are a moderator there. every one knows about the wars occurred in Skyscapercity forums and the move of the foromers of kochi scc to kochinow forus. you have to move from scc because the moderators there was very strong and they BANNED all the foroumers who triggered the war. you editors also discussed about the mods very abuse fully in kochi now forums.

    I don't think the above editor's allegations about you are not wrong. the discussions in kochinow was like that. from the discussions, you editors from kochinow forum has only one thing to do, Glorify Kochi and destroy other city articles and you are doing it very organized and slowly.

    here is one of your statements from kochi now 

    ""The only way to deal with the vandals is to be cool, systematic and methodical always. Do
things slowly and steady. Right now, we have removed most of the malicious content. Doing
too much too soon will attract attention, and we will have a war at hand. Let us go easy on
the edits, and do it slow.""


    You editors are vandalizing Wikipedia in the name of WIKI LAWS. if you are not so biased, why did you deleted the tread against wiki from kochinow forums after it's been mentioned in Wikipedia???. everyone knows you will reorganize and continue your discussions through more secure means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.52.212 (talk) 05:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    remember dileep: "Not to argue and win but to know and to make known" this will not suit you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.52.212 (talk) 05:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Dear IP Editor (I am not alleging you are Samaleks, but you seem to always support him). You are welcome to initiate a sock/meat puppetry investigation on any editor, including myself. Let me also mention that you are violating the Argue facts, not personalities principle here.
    Let me repeat. I am not requesting any action on Samaleks here. I just want him to realize what he is doing, mend his ways and to follow the Wikiquette. The same applies to you, IP user under 49.xx.xx.xx, because your behaviour also is exactly the same.
    DileepKS(talk) 06:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    you think i am a sock samaleks because of i supported him?? then i can mention that you and your friends are meat puppets because you supports them everywhere.
    old man, if you want him to realize what he is doing, you can talk to him on the talk page instead of writing all these here. and i DONT want to initiate a sock/meat puppetry BIG ""INVESTIGATION"" for finding that you and your beloved ""FRIENDS" are meat puppets. it's clear from your forum discussions. and i send the above message is to REALIZE you that EVERYBODY knows how BIASED YOU ARE. and every one knows how you and your friends organized to edit the page Kochi. i red your forum posts and that's why i supported samaleks.

    about my behavior - simple!!! it's better than you!!! i don't try to say "mine is bigger than you" to everyone like you in the forums. also, i don't want your ""principles"". 49.14.85.150 (talk) 06:44, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Dear IP Editor. Whether you want or not, the principles of wikiquette I quoted are binding on the users of Wikipedia. The only way to not adhere to them is to not venture into editing. The very reason I raised this investigation is to draw attention to the fact that Editor Samaleks, and IP Editors like yourself, are not abiding with them.
    DileepKS(talk) 07:12, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    User:OhNoitsJamie

    There's an ongoing debate over the inclusion of facetious synposis Baby_Got_Back in which User:OhNoitsJamie is exploiting his administrative privileges and acting in violation with Wikipedia guidelines: namely, not being nice to newcomers, refusing discussion, forcing his own opinion onto others.

    His position regarding the synopsis itself is (in my opinion) probably correct. What I can't stomach is his high horse attitude. This is NOT how Wikipedia should be functioning. This man is an administrator, his actions should be exemplary to other contributors. Instead he behaves like he forgot about his responsibilities and only enjoys his power.

    "I agree. There's nothing more for me to add to this conversation, and as I said before, anyone re-adding this or similar synopses will be warned once and blocked. Editors who've already been blocked for it once will be blocked for a longer period. That's all, folks."

    This is not how an administrator should act at all. The correct way to resolve this would be to listen to any arguments others might have, and warn them not to change the article unless there's a consensus to do it. Not this "I said no, end of story".

    Guess what happened when I wrote him about that? He deleted that message commenting "not useful". Another example of high horse attitude.

    Moreover, it turns out he deleted the history revisions containing the synopsis in question, without obtaining any consensus whatsoever with people on the talk page. This is clearly not an action required for keeping wikipedia clean, but just a display of his "power" against those who oppose him.

    I'm not sure if this warrants a de-admin request as it is, but I at least hope that the community urges user:OhNoitsJamie to reflect on his actions and choose a more tolerable attitude in the future. I hope he remembers that he's not the one deciding anything. He's just a public servant. -- 91.79.20.246 (talk) 09:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    I made a Wikiquette complaint about him a week or so ago, and concur - I had the same impression. I've had his talk page on watch since then and it's difficult to see him as a calming influence. I suspect being an admin can be quite a hassle and will get to some people eventually. I don't know much about him till recently, but maybe he's got to that point. DeCausa (talk) 09:39, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Jamie has been dealing with this crap for awhile now, and I don't begrudge him a bit of frustration. This all stems from a dumb internet meme that breaks down dumb pops songs into excruciating, over-analyzed detail that came to AN/I's attention last fall. If people are still trying to jam this junk into articles, they're gonna get what they deserve, IMO. Tarc (talk) 13:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't know anything about the article in question - I was just noticing from my interaction with him and the stuff on his talk page over the last week or two that he doesn't seem to behave in a way that other admins generally do. DeCausa (talk) 14:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    If this administrator is threatening to use his tools in a content dispute, that's serious and should be reported to the Administrators Noticeboard. Figureofnine (talk) 14:30, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    That is not a correct assessment of the situation. The admin in question is not a vested contributor in the article, he was merely there to remove vandalism and sanction the vandals. Tarc (talk) 15:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Agree with Tarc. When an admin has been monitoring a known problem on a specific article in their capacity as an admin, then it is within their remit to use their tools on said article should the issues recur. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 15:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Then there is no issue here. Figureofnine (talk) 15:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    See this thread and the original ANI posting. There's been a recent rallying by predominiately SPA's to attempt to bring the silly synopsis back, resulting in protection of the article. Yes, I do find the whole thing very tiresome. A few revisions were deleted per as being "purely disruptive," an interpretation I stand by. I should note that following the protection, a contributor completed a well-done expansion of the article that conforms with policy guidelines. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:35, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Being tired is no justification for being a bad admin. As long as someone's willing to hold a proper discussion, the discussion should be held. If you feel you cannot stay neutral and support it, it's a clear sign you should call another administrator and abstain from participating yourself. Not that you should declare your opinion final and threaten to ban people who stubbornly disagree with you. -- 91.79.23.181 (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Except it still was a content dispute, because there were people that believed this content satisfied all the rules of wikipedia and were ready to support their claims in discussion. They just got slapped in their face by this admin. "I said no, so no". -- 91.79.23.181 (talk) 17:30, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sure being an administrator is a difficult job. It is not something most people could do well. It is my experience and belief that User:Ohnoitsjamie is, at present, ill suited to the task of Wikipedia administrator. I was one of the editors who argued in favor of the inclusion of the synopsis at Talk:Baby Got Back. My initial editorial action on this article was to revert his deletion and to call for discussion on the talk page prior to deletion of a section. No substantive discussion had previously been held. For this action (one reversion and a call for discussion) I was summarily issued a final warning and threat to block. This editor has consistently violated the assumption of good faith policy and uses intimidation as his primary argumentative tool. I would suggest he be removed immediately as an administrator. Furthermore, there is a small group of about 3 editors who troll articles looking for hip-hop translations/interpretations and vigorously delete them. They have invented their own new Wikipedia policy which is referred to as the "Verbose meme". Yes, perhaps the synopsis on this page should have been removed or modified and that argument was over months ago when I got no support from any other editors. But, to emaciate the history of the article simply as a way to support your jihad against hip-hop lyric translation is over the top. This, i consider vandalism. His reason for the history deletions is that the revisions were "purely disruptive". That means this editor is stating that my revision re-instating the synopsis (which he has deleted) was purely disruptive. I must take exception. I argued, I think, quite correctly that the synopsis was not original research. The only legitimate argument for its deletion was the claim that it is original research. It is not. It is simply a translation from hip-hop slang to English. To claim that my edit was purely disruptive is false and provides additional evidence of this editor's utter disregard for the assumption of good faith. Please read the discussion at Talk:Baby_Got_Back#Synopsis and Talk:Baby_Got_Back#Content_of_Synopsis to see the tenor and nature of this discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorfree (talk • contribs) 05:52, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not a forum for requesting disciplinary action against an administrator. I think this topic should be closed. Figureofnine (talk) 17:22, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Jamie's reaction to the protracted silliness on this article is understandable, and certainly not grounds to make sweeping claims like "ill suited to the task of Wikipedia administrator". DeCausa's complaint last week was valid, if minor (IMHO). This one isn't. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:30, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    user:Arthur Smart - bigotry & personal attacks

    The editor wrote [13] that the vision statement for Wikiproject Conservatism is "bald-faced lie", and "that lie's chief perpetrator." In the edit summary he wrote "are all conservatives liars, or just the creator of this project." Accusing me of lying, and then actually calling me a liar is a clear violation of WP:NPA. The edit sum reveals a bigotry against conservatives.

    Several times [14] [15] I explained to him that the vision statement was aspirational, which is typical for vision statements. Unfortunately his hatred of conservatives has blinded him to all reason resulting in this anti-conservative, bigoted and disruptive outburst. Lionel (talk) 20:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    You know, this isn't going to get very far when the statement that he was accusing you of lying about was "WikiProject Conservatism is the recognized world wide resource for documenting the conservative movement". When he changed that to "aspires someday to be", you reverted it back to the inaccurate statement. Accusing him of bigotry here is a personal attack, so why don't you both just stop insulting the other and go back to editing articles? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:57, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. This is not an article. It is a wikiproject subpage.
    2. A vision statement by definition is "the way an organization or enterprise will look in the future." Based on the definition Arthur's edit is deficient. He is under the mistaken assumption that a vision statement must be a provable statement.
    3. But that isn't the point: Arthur called me a liar, and disparaged all conservatives.Lionel (talk) 21:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with Sarek. The "visions statement" obviously isn't true, and this is a silly dispute which has nothing to do with improving the encyclopedia.   Will Beback  talk  22:15, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    "Insulting each other?" I did not call him a name. I described behavior. His edit summary was a derogatory blanket generalization of an entire group of people and I wrote that it was a "bigoted...outburst." (Ital mine.) And when you make a derogatory blanket generalization, well, it's properly referred to as bigotry. There is no BOOMERANG here. Lionel (talk) 22:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with you Will that fighting over this subpage is silly. The page in question is a step above a user page, and has no readers. Question: does it matter if a vision statement is true, and if yes, on what do you base that? Lionel (talk) 22:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Project pages are part of the project. Writing obviously incorrect statements is unhelpful and fighting over them is just pugnacious. If the statement is contentious then just delete it. Every Wikiproject has the same goal - improving the articles within its topic.   Will Beback  talk  22:55, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Wtshymanski and the transistor AfDs

    This stems from a series of thirteen deletions for electronics component articles. A convenient list is here. The disparaging comments are Wtshymanski's.

    These were PROD'ed, rejected, than AfD'ed. For the purpose of WQA it's not just the behaviour to this point that is at issue, but behaviour since. This has been an unusually ill-tempered (and single-handedly so) set of AfDs with a tenacious amount of flogging a dead horse afterwards.

    The basic premise behind these deletions is that, "parts list articles are not notable". These components are all real electronic components, with a huge range of references behind them from any number of standard parts handboooks. Yet this does not, allegedly, confer notability. The problem is some variant of WP:MILL: simply existing and being recorded as such is not notable, in the way that a phone number is not notable, despite being well catalogued. Only components with some real claim to distinctive novelty could be said to be "noteworthy", and thus considered WP:Notable.

    The strange part is that no-one, even at the AfDs, seems to disagree with this principle. The dissent is that these components are, by and large, reckoned to be that handful of components that do meet the more stringent criteria for being noteworthy.

    AfDs

    Most of the debate seemed to take place on this AfD, the rest being somewhat repetitive.

    These in turn gave rise to a centralised discussion

    Behaviour during this AfD was far from ideal. In particular, I don't believe that AGF extends to comparing other editors to a psychotic murderer.

    Talk page comments from other editors, re behaviour

    Some rare support:

    The AfDs have now mostly closed as keeps. There is some support for deleting a couple where it's agreed that they are indeed just "parts list" items.

    So far, process seems to have worked just as it ought and an excess of zeal by one editor has been compensated for. However behaviour since really is getting beyond a joke. They seem incapbable of making any comment without a sarcastic edit summary, they refuse to recognise that there is any other valid viewpoint:

    Shortly after one AfD closed as keep, they re-tagged it for notability - yet isn't this what was just discussed?

    This is an editor who refuses to respect consensus, or that he might be "right yet outvoted", and that in the interests of the encyclopedia it's time to put the stick down and leave the horse be.

    This is not the working atmosphere we're supposed to have to put up with. This editor's behaviour is intolerable. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:06, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Bad articles need to be improved. Un-notable topics need to be removed. The edit summaries are my relief from endlessly typing "rv v" and help to remind me later what the nature of the edit was. And I'm not plural, there's only one of me. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:14, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand the "rvv" thing. I do a lot of that myself, it's not a good atmosphere to work in because first you start to see every anon IP as a vandal, then every editor, then every edit. It's all too easy to forget that some edits to WP are actually constructive and that not every editor is a poo-obsessed twelve year old.
    However the edits here are not vandalism. It is wrong of you to approach them in that way. Leave the vandal patrol be for a day or two if you have to and work on the good stuff instead. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't object to the notability tagging; I do that somethings on articles that are kept after AfD, to remind editors that evidence of notability still needs to be cited. The problem is just that Wtshymanski won't lose the attitude. His calling everything a "parts list item", "Radio Shack catalog", and such is just pouring on negativity, where forward progress is possible. If he can't accept the decision, it would be best to just walk away from these articles. Dicklyon (talk) 01:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, we're either writing an encyclopedia, or something else. If the only substantial facts in an article are breakdown voltage and current rating, and the JEDEC package number, coupled with some praise words and ad talk from some hobby magazine or TAB book, then it's a parts list entry masquerading as an encyclopedia article. I'm not calling everything a parts list entry, I'm calling these rather useless items parts list entries. Forward progress is not possible, sources either don't exist or are unsuitable for Wikipedia usage, and all we've got is repeated appearances in parts lists. If there were sources, they would have turned up before or during this Article Improvement Drive. If you were grading an assignment on, oh, say, "Silicon diodes" or "electronics" or "The Semiconductor Industry", you'd have to give a failing grade to this sorry collection of inaccurately copied data sheet parameters. This is aside from the rather undignified obsession with minutia that so characterizes many Wikipedia topics; learn all about the printing of menus in the dining car, but nothing about the railway. --Wtshymanski (talk) 02:43, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    We're not writing an encyclopedia — at least I'm not — instead I'm sat here with the IEEE paper on the 2N3055 in one hand (a very good read) and thinking that I should be writing an encyclopedia, but then I think "What's the point?" because someone is being such a persistent negative jerk about these same articles. Your attitude is a major disincentive to anyone bothering to do the very fixes you claim to be wanting done. You're not doing it (you're too busy carping), I'm not doing it because I don't want to work on articles under those conditions. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    User:L-l-CLK-l-l

    It's a little much to take for a 17 year old child who's been here barely a year to be taking the kind of tone User:L-l-CLK-l-l has at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Writer (song), accusing an experienced editor of more than six years of knowing nothing about wikipedia policy and (with no basis whatsoever) being pointy. Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, but that seems bloody rude to me. - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 04:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    WP:POINT. Is reporting me for disagreeing with his view (as well as every other editor on the deletion page has agreed with me). I did nothing wrong as you can see on the page, i explained the actual rule and because he doesnt like it he is reporting me. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 04:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    You both seem quite able to work this out between yourselves. Prodego talk 04:20, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh please. You explained your ridiculous crabbed misinterpretation of the policy and threw in some comments that are grossly inappropriate for a newbie. Get off your high horse, apologize for your insolent tone, and make arguments based on what the policy actually has. Geez! Clearly this is just about a disagreement on policy, which is why you are the only user who stated a contrary view who has been criticized here. *eyeroll* - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 04:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    A newbie? That's why i have 10 GA and FA's. Yes im a newbie so my logic must be flawed, i mean that's why 5 other editors (i can find dozens more if you wish) that argue with my "misinterpretation" of policy. Im done discussing this now, have a nice day. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 04:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    You've a child and you've been here scarcely more than a year; I've been here for six. I was editing articles here before you hit puberty. Don't lecture me on policy, kid.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 04:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds to me like you need to take a step back. You can make your points in a more civil way. RxS (talk) 04:56, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right, and in a few minutes I shall, but you've been here about as long as I have (indeed, you're an admin), so how would you feel if a child who's been here about twenty minutes showed up and starts telling you how you don't understand WP policy? "Insolent" barely covers it. And this is in the context of a 15 year old canvassing his buddies and this 17 year old getting mouthy. Unbelievable! Who the hell do they think they are? - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 05:06, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, here's the deal. There's a long held standard here that you need to comment on the edits and not the editor. You need to work on that. Commenting on someones age, tenure etc won't get you anywhere (fast). It's rude and doesn't contribute to what's suppose to be a collaborative project. RxS (talk) 05:19, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    @Simon. First off, some diffs would help.
    Secondly, what's wrong with newbies? What's wrong with 17 year olds? Maybe nearly every 17 year old newbie is a rubbish editor, grammatically illiterate and a borderline vandal. That still wouldn't mean that they all are. In the case here, we seem to have an editor of some evident competence, an edit count of 7,000 (which is more than yours!) and even if we threw AGF away and replaced it with "Respect experience", they'd still deserve a bit more credit than you're showing them. Edits, not editor is what matters here. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    I think this discussion is just silly. I see no problem with etiquette here, other than you. What does it matter how old the user is, and how many years they've been here? LICKI was in no way being rude to you, just disagreeing on a topic at hand. Also, if you actually read the "when reporting" section here, it states:

    1. Try to phrase it in neutral and non-judgemental language. Posting in haste and anger could add fuel to the fire, rather than helping to improve matters, thus try to avoid posting while upset.
    2. Include diffs that show the problem. (A guide to creating diffs is here). Supply a simple explanation of the problem, along with the involved parties and a link to the page(s) where the problem is happening - avoid an extensive discussion of the problem or issue on this page
    3. Remember the aim is to move the dispute towards resolution, and that all helpers are volunteers (therefore the amount of time it may take to receive a response will vary). If the circumstances change since your original posting then please update your alert. If you have not received help and the problem escalates, please edit your alert to inform us that you have reported it elsewhere.
    4. Do not continue your discussion in detail here. Instead, continue discussing it at its original location. As long as your alert contains a link to the relevant discussions it will be seen.

    You have done none of the above. ℥nding·start 10:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Rikster2 -- Inappropriate behavior and personal attacks

    User was extremely rude and condescending during AfD. User threatened to nominate for deletion other articles I had worked on if I didn't leave the discussion. His exact words were: "Stand down, buddy." I then said that I didn't find the threat and order constructive, trying to return the conversation back to the discussion at hand. User replied by again telling me to "stand down," and nominating one of the before mentioned articles for deletion (result: no consensus). User later made several other inappropriate comments during the discussion: 1) "I am done with what is a pretty clear case of failed notability and interested in hearing other opinions. You have made your "case." If you'd like to continue to do so, knock yourself out." User continued to participate in the discussion after this statement. 2) "Shut up." 3) "Blueman, nice presumptive close." Blueman33 (talk) 10:47, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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