Talk:I Vow to Thee, My Country

Date Query

In 1921, the music of "Jupiter" from Gustav Holst's Planets Suite was added.

In 1925, Gustav Holst set the words to music,

It can't be both, folks. And do we have a source for Holst being okay with his tune being used? The Wednesday Island 14:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I found a source that says Holst wrote the music in 1921, but it was first performed in 1925. I have amended the article accordingly. Note that the source is not what I would consider particularly credible and we really need to find a better one. Sidefall 19:48, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Third Verse

Perhaps there should be a reference to the third verse...?

Can somebody add the text of the third verse? --Maha 00:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I concurr this is necessary. Does anyone have knowledge of it? Graldensblud 00:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Just to add to this, further to the deletion, twice today, of the third verse, and its associated source and content. Just because the third verse is not sung, nor included in hymn books, that is not a valid reason to simply remove the lyrics and also a source in this article and remove additional content. I have though removed the additional wording which had no place on the article that was written in the style of a comment on a talk page. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 17:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to google the deleted verse and the only source I've found says it is probably a hoax. I would be minded to remove it from the article unless someone can come up with a verifiable source. Sidefall 19:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Hymn

It would be more appropriately described as a hymn of the Commonwealth nations than of merely England.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.28.240.20 (talk) 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The fact remains that it is an English patriotic hymnn even if it is also sung in other countries. It has been added that the hymn is used in Canadian Remembrance Day services. If it is proven that the hymn is also of all "the Commonwealth nations" with sources, then surely that can be included, as well as it being English patriotic hymn, rather than instead of it.♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 17:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

For that matter, it's in the current American(-Canadian) Seventh-day Adventist Hymnal (1985), presumably for Canadian use, though it could be sung in any nation that requested death of its citizens; the text has no specific reference to England or the UK. --Haruo 17:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Cecil Spring-Rice - I vow to thee my country

Entries for "Cecil Spring-Rice" and "I vow to thee, my country" don't match. Cecil Spring-Rice died 14th February 1918 - I vow to thee my country written in 1918 after the 1st World War which ended 11th November 1918????211.26.57.186 15:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The words were not written after the First World War, they were written in early 1918 while Spring-Rice was in Washington as British ambassador. 137.73.126.175 16

02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

That was indeed 'after the First World War' so far as the east was concerned (the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was not signed until March 1918 but there had already been an armistice between the newly created Russian Soviet Socialist Republic and Germany).

Is this not relevant? Of course it is, and extremely so, at least in my own opinion - for I believe that what is ultimately in question is the political character of the new Republic under the flag 'workers of the world unite' and the statements relating to the military character of the west both by socialists within the west itself and by Lenin in published literature earlier as from the beginning of the war ('imperialism is the highest form of capitalism', and so on). Furthermore, I remember having read somewhere that the poem was actually written by Spring-Rhine on a visit to Russia at the time of the revolution, but unfortunately I cannot quote for the time being at least the source of this information.

I wish to suggest that this matter relates also to the extraordinary character of the war memorials in both east and west as erected after the war.

Are we ever ladies and gentlemen going to sort this matters out? It is a shame that none of these things have, it seems, ever, at least in any generally known or accepted form, been analyzed (presumably as a result of division between east and west without any very evident attempt to try and understand how at the time they may have been connected in the minds of people on both sides of Europe and incidentally quite clearly on the basis of this poem in that of Cecil Spring-Rine, something hardly surprizing in view of what amounted to similar revolutions in Austria, Germany, France and the UK, and possibly elsewhere, all of which proved of course unsuccessful). There is one simple fact that has never been denied, namely that without the Russian Empire and later the USSR neither the First nor the Second World War would have been won in the West. I repeat that this seems alas to be disregarded and the text in question has a few years ago (2004) been described as 'contrary to religion' by a bishop of the Church of England Ban this racist hymn, says bishop. Peter Judge

Original version

At that time, the first verse glorified warfare in a manner common to the bellicose patriotism at the beginning of the Great War. if anyone has these words, could they please add them to this article - it would be very interesting to see what they say. Sidefall 17:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

O God, Beyond All Praising

Please check this out as well. It has the same melody, but different words I think. This should be included in the article as it is another rendition of I Vow to Thee my country.

the youtube link below is from the United States, sung in a church in Tennessee. it's towards the end of the clip.

[1]

ApsbaMd2 (talk) 15:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this hymn is listed in the Oremus Hymnal as being sung to Thaxted, as is another hymn called "Let streams of living justice". It's pretty common for multiple hymns to use the same tune, and indeed for multiple tunes to be used for the same hymn, with hymns with popular metres (such as Common Metre, 8.6.8.6) often swapping tunes freely. On the other hand, as Thaxted is, to my knowledge, the only hymn tune with metre 13.13.13.13.13.13, and I Vow To Thee My Country led to the adaptation of that tune as a hymn tune, it might be worth noting that the hymn effectively created a new metre. TSP (talk) 15:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Categorisation

Surely this should not be in the English Patriotic songs category, as it is a British song!ARBAY (talk) 22:00, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense. The country in the title can't be Britain, since that's not a country, but instead refers to England. Therefore, it is an English song, and the categorization is correct. ddawson (talk) 18:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Then why is it in the Navbox under United kingdom Patriotic Songs ??

Things from the UK are usually called British and the UK is often taken as a country. I still Think as there is no explicit (or implicit) reference to England it should be placed in British Patriotic songs Category . ARBAY (talk) 18:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Good point. Silly me, I was thinking of Britain (the island), as opposed to the UK. I suppose UK would be a better category. In fact, I just changed it myself. ddawson (talk) 00:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Revision

I think the revision by XLinkBot was wrong is there a wiki policy which does not allow for links to youtube???

Written after son's death?

I'm sure I heard somewhere (BBC radio 4 programme?) that Spring-Rice rewrote the poem/lyric after his own son's death in the first world war? This would be important to add if true.122.176.218.248 (talk) 17:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)