Talk:Stephen Harper/Archive 2
Harper Progaganda Machine
March 5th this entry is consistently having its editing re-edited removing SALIENT entries on Mr. Harper's political record. I would submit that this entry should be frozen and all further editing reviewed by an impartial non-canadian editor
Whoever yanked the thing about him resigning because of resenting Manning's desire to talk to constituents you're hiding reality. It's a well documented fact asshole
To quote Preston Manning off a freely available cbc 2006 contenders page
""'Why do you take these [policies] – which some have spent our entire lives studying and working – you take them to these meetings in school gyms and skating rinks and expose them and listen to people who haven't thought about it for 15 minutes – why do you do that?' And I used to say, 'Because it's their money. That's why.'...
"Of course, Stephen and others would point out there's a dark side to populism. Majorities can not only be wrong but viciously wrong ... but I was always more on the optimistic side."
"
put back the edit
- Listen 216.58.10.1, never deleate someone else response or ideas from this talk page again. SFrank85 01:21, 26 February 2006 (UTC)Hey Frank the word is "delete"
k WELL I put in an edit, a FAIR edit of the part about he had a problem with constituents about the gun registry vs. the constituents on tax reforms and someone yanked it. PUT it in, whoever yanked it can just put it back in correct? Like I'm sorry I hate Harper but I don't HAVE to bullshit him to show his negative side. I did NOT put in a knock on him I put in a very fair, very politely worded edit and this is bs
full name
I see that the name in the lead has gone back and forth between Stephen Harper and Stephen Joseph Harper. I suggest that the full name goes in the lead as per normal encyclopaedic practice. That is the place most people will expect to find it.--Kalsermar 20:09, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- That's what is suggested in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies). --JGGardiner 20:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- The shorter rendition – Stephen Harper – is a conciliatory attempt to include only the common name in-text (viz. in the intros for Canadian PMs), while including everything – full name, pre-/post-nominals – in/atop the infobox since including pre-nominals in the intro is discouraged. While there's no inherent difficulty with including his middle name upfront, it seems redundant given the above and may prompt editors to load the intro with other details better placed elsewhere.
- A proposal to revise the guidelines will be forthcoming (to accommodate for other biographies) and, in any event, comments are encouraged. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 20:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- I think it would make more sense per WP:MOSBIO (which states: ...the article should start with the complete version) to put the full name in the intro and the short versionin the infobox.--Kalsermar 20:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm. I think this would result in a rather odd melange of common name/pre-/post-nominals: The Rt. Hon. Stephen Harper, PC, MP, MA. This is obviated when the full name is rendered with everything else in the biobox. (This might also not be as problematic with Harper as it might be with other PMs with longer names like Pierre Trudeau or with pseudonyms like Kim Campbell.)
- I realise the MoS advocates for a fuller rendition upfront, but it is also currently ignorant of bioboxes. I know it's imperfect but in the interim and until/if it is modified, this is likely as good a place as any for those details. Thoughts? E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 21:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Personally I'd like to keep things simple, short and readable. My problem with styles is that they are just ostentatious devices that supporters like to see because it makes their guy seem important. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia and not a compilation of press releases. So I'm happy with the infobox compromise. --JGGardiner 21:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- I'm fine with the style going into the infobox. There is no particular need for rt. hon. and PC, MP, MA and such in the leading sentence but I do think the full name is better served there than in the infobox.--Kalsermar 21:46, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Personally I'd like to keep things simple, short and readable. My problem with styles is that they are just ostentatious devices that supporters like to see because it makes their guy seem important. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia and not a compilation of press releases. So I'm happy with the infobox compromise. --JGGardiner 21:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps the following (as per MoS variant) can appear in the intro lead:
- Stephen Harper, born Stephen Joseph Harper on 30 April 1959, is the 22nd Prime Minister of Canada ...
- The full name should appear in the biobox (given the other nominals there, not the common name except when it differs from the given name (e.g., Kim Campbell)); however IMO either or both can appear in the article lead. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 22:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps the following (as per MoS variant) can appear in the intro lead:
Infor bar
I have asked question and not got the results to them. Why is Stephen Harper's (or many other people's) religion not on the info bar I found it a big help knowing someone's religion. I need the result to my questions207.81.122.3 00:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Vandalism notice
I really, really want to delete the following: *This Steven Harper Page Is Under Considerable Threat Of Vandalisim. Please Do Not Delete This Note. But because Indy64 said "please", let's discuss it. I really don't see what this note is supposed to accomplish. It seems to violate Wikipedia policy, as it does not deal with the article's subject, but with a technical issue. If vandalism really is a huge problem for this article (and I'm not conviced it is), there must be better ways of dealing with it, such enlisting help from vandal fighters or semi-protecting the page. Indefatigable 18:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, there is a way to do this. Not that I think it is at risk. But I know the mods can "Freeze" a page.... Mbgb14 18:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Succession
I think that the succession section is misleading. The list that it refers to [[1]] is not an order of succession to Harper per se. Rather, it is a list of succession should any minister be unable to perform their duties: so if Chuck Strahl can't perform his duties, then Gary Lunn takes them on, then Rona Ambrose, then it goes down the list. The reason that this important is because the list is thus structured with the chairs of the two main committees (Priorities & Planning and Operations) on top. That makes sense because they should be the ones to take over the various ministries if somebody has to. Those two committees in particular are a very important part of the Canadian cabinet system. Thus the reason that Cannon and Prentice are on top is because of their jobs as committee chairs; their position on that list just flows from that (Harper is the technical chair, Cannon the deputy and effective chair of Priorities and Planning). So while the list applies to the PM, it is not really about that office. It is really a list about what to when cabinet ministers step down or are fired. Incidentally, the reason that MacKay couldn't get one of those important committee chairs is because he got a more important cabinet post (Foreign Affairs) which comes with the chairmanship of a less important committee (Foreign Affairs). --JGGardiner 00:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)