Talk:Theodore N. Kaufman

Biography Stub‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Untitled

Several revisions of this page have been made including incorporating portions from the German Wikipedia translation (self-translated, so there may be some errors). I also found good published sources that support the significant revisions.216.189.209.130 (talk) 08:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)216.189.209.130[reply]

Updates

This page can use some improvements. That is agreed. Some of the translation from German can be improved. HOWEVER, this was well-researched and is based on factual information, not opinions.

If you have comments on this page, here is the place to make them. You do NOT have the right to simply re-edit anything you like because you think there is too much "editorializing" or because you think this is Nazi propaganda, any more than anyone else would have the right to find anything that appears Zionist and making the same types of changes.

If you have constructive comments, MAKE THEM. 216.189.209.130 (talk) 01:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)216.189.209.130[reply]

Actually, the only verifiable source cited is an opinion piece, a book review which isn't even a news article. There might be some thing notability for the book, but there isn't really any for the person. And your writing was completely non-neutral. It basically reads like an attack piece (and your use of the word "Zionist" tips your hand as to your intentions). Also, you cannot translate anything yourself and include it here, that is original research. We should revert it to its state as a redirect unless these issues can be worked out. --Loonymonkey (talk) 18:24, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you might want to see what was translated before you make blanket assumptions. I sourced the information properly, according to Wikipedia's guidelines and the information translated relates to quotes that were properly attributed to the original sources.216.189.209.130 (talk) 01:16, 17 April 2011 (UTC)216.189.209.130[reply]

I think that it is time for you to back off or to escalate this to a higher level because you are showing a personal bias that is not acceptable and is contrary to Wikipedia's guidelines.

Actually, there are quotes from the book that was written and quotes from the author. These are supportable sources in Wikipedia. There is no anti Zionist bias in the writing nor in the intent. Let's take this to a committee.216.189.209.130 (talk) 01:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)216.189.209.130[reply]

The author proposed the sterilization of Americans and then Germans. How can any article discussing him NOT appear somewhat negative??? 216.189.209.130 (talk) 19:31, 16 April 2011 (UTC)216.189.209.130[reply]

See - Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RS -- Articles should rely on secondary sources whenever possible. For example, a review article, monograph, or textbook is better than a primary research paper. THEREFORE, using TIME magazine QUOTE as a REVIEW source is appropriate! The OTHER Time Magazine source is on an ARTICLE about the subject, and an additional ARTICLE is from ANOTHER newspaper, the Lewiston, Maine Sun Journal (http://www.sunjournal.com/). Then you overlook the OTHER sources: The Journal of Modern History; ANOTHER New York Times article; Vierteljahreshefte für Zeitgeschichte; 'Judenvernichtung'; Das Kriegsziel der Weltplutokratie; and "The Jewish Declaration of War Against the Nazis", Berel Lang, The Antioch Review. Just because this is a topic that might embarrass you does not give you the right to censor it. 216.189.209.130 (talk) 19:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)216.189.209.130[reply]

sentence in lede

I think we should reconsider the following sentence in the lede of the article:

In 1939 he published a pamphlet as chairman of the American Federation of Peace that argued that Americans should be sterilized so that their children will no longer have to fight in foreign wars

The actual quote suggests that this isn't quite what Kaufman was saying. First, he prefaced it with the phrase "a possible plea", which suggests that he may not have been entirely serious. Second, his formulation seemed to be saying something like: "If you're going to fight in foreign wars than sterilize us" which is not quite the same as how its formulated here. We really know very little about what his ideas in 1939 actually were. Since we have so little to go on (the Time article which seems to be the source of all this doesn't even mention Kaufman by name and it also uses multiple ellipses) I'd much rather we didn't include this in the lede but rather quoted the Time article directly in the body of the article. GabrielF (talk) 18:26, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

castration

I removed the phrase "through castration" from the sentence: "Two years later he shifted his focus to the forced mass-sterilization through castration of all German men under 65 and the sterilization of most German women under 45." This is simply inaccurate. Germany Must Perish states: "Sterilization is not to be confused with castration. It is a safe and simple operation, quite harmless and painless, neither mutilating nor unsexing the patient. Its effects are most often less distressing than vaccination and not more serious than a tooth extraction." No need to make Kaufman's ideas crazier than they really were. GabrielF (talk) 03:51, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]