Talk:Svalbard

Svalbard article

Lots of standard-format stuff was copied in from the CIA World Factbook; I used some of it as the basis for the current article. I'm inclined to pick up a few more bits, then delete the subpages; they lack sufficient content to be worth moving to better names. Vicki Rosenzweig, Tuesday, June 18, 2002

I've folded in what's worth saving, but get a 404 error when I try deleting any of the subpages. Help? Vicki Rosenzweig, Saturday, June 22, 2002

The subpages have already been integrated; I get a 404 error every time I try to delete them.

Svalbard: Part of Norway?

I am not sure if Svalbard should have basically a "Norway" country entry. Svalbard is not a part of Norway, but due to the Svalbard Treaty, it has the authority on the islands. There is a public discussion about this issue going on right now (April 2004) in Longyearbyen, initiated by a TV series that repeatetly statet "Svalbard is not Norway". There also at least one juridical example for the non-equilvality was given: An Australian who has been living on Svalbard for several years the Norwegian citizenship is denied, whereas he would have been Norwegian citizen if he had been staying in Norway for the same period.

Epix, April 21, 2004

I am a Norwegian myself and would like to inform you that Svalbard and Jan Mayen Is. are integrated parts of the Kingdom of Norway and certainly no dependencies. It is correct that Svalbard is not a part of the Schengen area and anybody can come to the islands without a visa or any immigration formalities. Not even a permission of stay is required. Earlier only Norwegians, Soviet citizen and a few Poles came to Svalbard. Now people are coming from all over the World, and the situation has changed very much. Therefore this Australian citizen's case is very special and the Norwegian authorities are afraid a lot of people will enter Svalbard in order to get a Norwegian citizenship. Svalbard is administrated from Troms county and Jan Mayen from Nordland county. The coat of arms used next to the flag is belonging to the Svalbard sheriff, as it is no Svalbard coat of arms. --Jakro64 20:45, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

GKAN- International Law Expert, 02 October 2006

Regarding the comments above and apparent belief that Svalbard is part of Norway:

The Svalbard Treaty (in Norwegian, English, French, etc.) and the vast majority of international literature make clear that Svalbard is administered by Norway by agreement of all signing parties (and later acceding parties), including the US, France, Britain, Russia... Citizens from any signatory country have the absolute right of access to the islands, regardless of any Norwegian claims to the contrary.

Theoretically, if Norwegian authorities were actually forcing Americans, French, etc. off of the islands, the signitory countries could back up their rights with diplomatic pressure and eventually military force. That Norway attempts to ascribe more than an internationally agreed administrative right to the islands (which also included the right to exploit them and regain costs through mining and other trades), is part of a regional pattern which can be better understood by examining the East Greenland dispute between Denmark and Norway. There Norway attempted to claim sovereignty in northeastern Greenland simply for the fact that Danish nationals had not utilised the territory or "backed up their claim by a military or physical presence there". The courts ruled in favour of Denmark and Norway's claims were denied.

Anyone who is a citizen of a signatory country, who is properly equipped and with indepedendent means and despite this is denied access to Svalbard should report the issue to their country's diplomatic authorities and to the country's embassy in Norway for an official investigation and possible action. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.76.54.253 (talk • contribs) 03:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Kingdom of Norway seems to disagree:

'consists of the western and northern parts of the Scandinavian peninsula as well as the northern territories of Jan Mayen and the Svalbard archipelago'

Pædia 05:43, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

The word "territory" does not have to imply that the area is a dependency (which is not the case for neither Jan Mayen nor Svalbard.) The word can merely refer to a "distinct geographical region". This is the case here. --Valentinian 22:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC) (from Denmark)[reply]

I second the user above's remarks: Svalbard is under the county of Troms. It does have a governor, however, appointed from Oslo. The use of "territory" is correct here.--Mike 07:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC) (from Tórshavn, the Faroes)[reply]

Actually, the archipelago is an external territory (i.e. a dependancy), unlike Jan Mayen which is an integral part part of Nordland, and therefore is Norway itself. This has only minor implications on matters of legal jurisdiction and diplomacy, however. You are right about the phrase "a territory of" could technically be intended to mean either an external "appendix" to a state or an constituent part of the the body of land that makes up that state. Let's rephrase in order to avoid misunderstandings. =J //Big Adamsky 13:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Both Jan Mayen and Svalbard are a part of Norway proper. Feel free to compare the laws for Svalbard[1] and Jan Mayen[2] vs the one for Bouvet Island, Peter I's Island and Queen Maud Land[3] (Norwegian links). --Cybbe 19:10, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article 1 of (what is now known as) the Svalbard Treaty of 1920 reads: The High Contracting Parties undertake to recognise, subject to the stipulations of the present Treaty, the full and absolute sovereignty of Norway over the Archipelago of Spitsbergen ... This is clear: Norway has sovereignty over Svalbard, but its exercise of this sovereignty is severely limited. Whether Svalbard is "part of" Norway seems to depend on whether one interprets "sovereignty over" and "part of" as synonymous, upon which point only the opinion of an expert in international law would appear to hold any value. One's nationality, in particular, does not lend credence to one's opinion on this matter.

Now, while I am not an expert in international law, Norway does not appear to have any legitimate claim over Svalbard other than that granted by the treaty. Prior to the treaty, Svalbard was (without any shadow of a doubt) a no man's land.

I suspect that, prior to the fall of the Soviet Union, the Norwegians would not have indulged in the kind of integrationist propaganda that has marked more recent pronouncements on, and dealings with, the archipelago --- how often did the Susselmann visit Barentsburg, other than as a guest, prior to 1991? I doubt he would have dared to march into Barentsburg as "the law" in the way he does now. If Longyearbyen airport has radar, it is a new addition: the Soviets had previously prohibited it, and the Russians sustained the objection long after 1991. If Svalbard was "part of Norway", would the Norwegians have tolerated such interference in an internal matter of air safety? The status of Svalbard is at least ambiguous: the assertion that Svalbard is an integrated part of the Kingdom of Norway is not supported unambiguously by the treaty, and certainly not by history.

-- EmmetCaulfield 16:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archipelago or island query

As far as some maps go, they note the archipelago as being the Spitsbergan archipelago, with the largest island being Svalbard.

Is this incorrect?

A recent BBC news article [4] also seemed to have the two names that way round.

Is the information here and on Spitsbergen correct?

zoney ♣ talk 12:29, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes the articles here on wikipedia are correct. Spitsbergen is the name of the largest Island in the Svalbard archipelago.

Here are a few external links confirming it [5], [6] and [7]. Shanes 12:48, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Map

It's so far north -- shouldn't the map be polar? Tlogmer 22:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

.sj

Google gives back several sites with the .sj root...what is going on? Ejrrjs | What? 00:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

But none of them work?--ZorroIII 21:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Asking for help / review with Bjørnøya article

Hi everybody, I am currently requesting review for the Bjørnøya article. If you are are knowledgeable in the field you might like to look into it. Please comment at Wikipedia:Peer review/Bjørnøya, any constructive criticism would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kosebamse 22:54, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Language(s) of Svalbard

I have no expertise in the subject of Svalbard or of the surrounding regions. I'm interested in this island group because of it's geographic location, it's very far north. (I have more expertise in other areas so I contribute more to those articles on Wikipedia.) I contribute what I can to the editing of Svalbard, spelling and grammar. There is a recent edit to this article about the languages of Svalbard. Here is the current edit of the relevant part of the article:

The official language of Svalbard is Norwegian. Russian is used in the Russian settlements, but formerly, Russenorsk was the lingua franca of the entire Barents Sea region.

This is still a bit awkward, but I decided to discuss it here before making the edit to the main page.

I think that we can agree that if "lingua franca" remains in the article, it should be linked to the appropriate article.
There are many languages that get mixed on the borders of countries, so I don't think that "lingua franca" would be appropriate for this usage. "Lingua franca" is for a language that gets used widely beyond the borders of the country of native speakers. (e.g.: English is the lingua franca of the Internet.)
There is some (minor) ambiguity in the way that this is currently written. Here is my proposed rewrite, based on what I think is meant:

The official language of Svalbard is Norwegian. However, in the Russian settlements (<insert list if it is small>) Russian is currently used, but Russenorsk was used up until <XXXX-year> because of its usage in the entire Barents Sea region.

There are two places in this text where information needs to be filled in, but I think that this reads better. I hope I conveyed the right information. Val42 00:03, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds fine to me. Russenorsk, like Chinook, is an extinct trading language, classified as a pidgin, i.e. with no native speakers. I appreciate what you've done as regards fine-tuning the English. B-] //Big Adamsky 00:43, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bit puzzled by the "part of the kingdom of Norway" part and have toned it down. Last time I was in Svalbard it was clearly explained as "governed but not owned" hence the Russians were taking out vast amounts of Coal etc. also ref voting, citizenship etc. BozMo

Discuss instead of deletinge

Tskoge, please try harder to contribute to this project in a good spirit. Try discussing any changes you feel are warranted, rather than forcing your personal version on the rest of the community here. //Big Adamsky 16:34, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You add nonsense, I remove nonsense. There is not much to discuss. Wikipedia is supposedly an encyclopedia, not a place where people add their random nonsense. (And it is difficult to take very seriously anyone who relies on worldstatesmen.org.) Tskoge 17:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The thing is, this is not your personal blog and consequently you do not get the prerogative of unilaterally passing verdict on what is "nonsense". If you find it difficult to take other contributors seriously, then you have a problem. Tug-of-war style editing is hardly the solution to that problem. //Big Adamsky 18:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is a "special entity" and how is Svalbard a special entity (or even an entity)? How is Svalbard a special territory? Svalbard is a part of Norway. Shouldn't every single US state be in that category, aren't they all "special"? Tskoge 08:44, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good start. Well, if you would take the time to read the article that you have been purging from the text, you will discover how those four named entities (= bodies of land; territories) occupy an ambiguous position in international law in that they are in some respects external. The category of special status entities was presumably created in order to lump together articles that all have this feature in common in some way or other. //Big Adamsky 09:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. Then Svalbard obvously does not belong on such a list. I do not understand why you say that entity = body of land. Tskoge 17:02, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please check sources before making statements of personal beleif (if that's the case here). WP:NPOV might contain relevant information. --Nordby73 01:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What are you saying? One is not allowed for clarification of what another person has said? Tskoge 15:23, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of the caterogy "Special territories"

Yes, the link you provided there contains much relevant information. Now, as for the "special status" referred to (by me at least), it arises from several facts:

Svalbard is administered differently from other parts of the Kingdom; it is neither a county nor a municipality of Norway, and is also not part of any mainland county or municipality (unlike Jan Mayen, q.v.). In this respect, Svalbard resembles Hong Kong and Macau, whose administrative status is also unique. (The Finnish administrative reorganization of 1997 effectively elevated the new provinces to a status equal to that already enjoyed by Åland).
The situation of foreigners there also differs from those in metropolitan Norway. Citizens of a large number of states may freely enter and take up permanent residence in the archipelago at their own leisure. In metropolitan Norway (Fastlands-Norge), this applies only to citizens of states signatory to the Schengen Agreement (since 1996; and from 1954 to its Nordic predecessor). In this respect, the Svalbard Treaty is somewhat similar to the Antarctic Treaty. The demilitarization stipulated in the Treaty bears resemblence with the Treaty of Åland. The various nationalities residing within the jurisdiction of the Longyearbyen Local Government (≈city council of Longyearbyen) constitute a demographic minority, whereas in the archipelago as a whole, foreign nationals formed the majority until a few years ago.
The .sj country code top-level domain is another factor that sets the islands apart (cf. .ax, .hk and .mo).

Other, fairly credible sources seem to agree that this categorization is apt. And, while the Factbook may not be entirely accurate/neutral, the comparison with Åland, Hong Kong and Macau (and possibly also Sinŭiju, Guantánamo Bay and Akrotiri and Dhekelia) is called for, as is the descriptor "special territory". That category is intended to help the reader understand, and should not be censored with no justification given other than "nonsense". Instead, please explain why you feel that something is nonsense. //Big Adamsky 15:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Add the category then. Tskoge 15:53, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]