Talk:Wario Land: Shake It!

Note to editors: the title of the page has already been disputed. Please stop asking to change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VmKid (talk • contribs) 21:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

New title

Wario Land: The Shake Dimension? I heard the title "Wario Land Shake" but not the Shake Dimension. Where does the new title come from? Superluigi821 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.42.50.223 (talk) 23:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

It was rated by the OFLC, and that was the English name given. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

U.S. title is Wario Land; Shake It! I provided a source as well.AlexanderLD (talk) 13:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

So why is the Oceanic title being given primary-ance over US and Japanese names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 03:07, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Captain Syrup?

Is that Captain Syrup in the picture in Reference 3? GEM036 (talk) 03:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Awsome GEM036 (talk) 19:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I know, isn't it? - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Remember..this is not a forum. Just put the new information on the page, and be done with it!Chaoshi (talk) 18:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

uh isnt merleda's servant the cute lil' kid the escaped and beged to wario to help (How can wario resist that cute lil' voice and face?)-67.87.96.255 (talk) 11:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Release

Japan is in July 24, Europe is September 26, U.S. is September 29 (I found a source) Australia is still unknown AlexanderLD (talk) 13:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

New information

Nintendo issued some statements about the game recently. Some things they mentioned included the fact that each level has multiple missions. Source: http://gonintendo.com/?p=47484 82.32.90.49 (talk) 18:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Official Title

On the Nintendo Press Site, the game was called "Wario Land: Shake It!" I think the article should be titled that because, once the box art is revealed, we will use the U.S. version.AlexanderLD (talk) 21:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't you mean "we will use the U.S. version because..." and then a reason? Being the U.S. name is hardly a reason to use the U.S. name. The game is being released as Wario Land: The Shake Dimension first, and it's being released in Europe first. There's absolutely no reason to call it Wario Land: Shake It!. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

That is not always true. I think on the Wii Sports page, the PAL cover is used, even though it came out in America first. For Mario Kart Wii, the U.S. version is used, even though we got it last. By you saying "and it's being released in Europe first." it doesn't support your point. At the very least, can Wario Land: Shake It! be redirected to this page?AlexanderLD (talk) 11:22, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

1. "Other articles do this" is not an argument to do something.
2. It does redirect? - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

1. My point is that just because the European version will come out first doesn't mean we have to use its title. I said how it doesn't matter in what came first, examples were Wii Sports, and Mario Kart.
2. It doesn't redirect. It would be helpful when someone in the U.S. wants to read about this game this article would come up. Where are you from U.K.?AlexanderLD (talk) 12:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

1. And what reason do you provide for the North American title?
2. Both titles "Wario Land: Shake It!" and "Wario Land: Shake It" redirect, how does the title not redirect there?
3. That's really none of your business, but I live in Minnesota in the United States. - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Both redirects do work, I've just come here through them :) Tphi (talk) 15:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Uhhh... considering most places, including the Super Mario Wiki, are using the title Wario Land: Shake It!, shouldn't wikipedia use it. GEM036 (talk) 01:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, since the Article's Boxart uses the Shake It! title, shouldn't the article title match. This sems like ignorance. GEM036 (talk) 01:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

So, just curious, did your search involve looking at anything other than "web sites/resources based in the United States"? You cited a fan wiki, whose policy is to give America preference in all cases? Wikipedia is not biased, and to attribute this to ignorance is one of the most laughable things I have ever heard. Oh, silly me to think that a user insisting that a name should be used JUST because it's the American title.

And no, since the title of the article was there before the box art, it shouldn't. The title of the game does not have to match the box art, and the only reason the box art is how it is is because there were not PAL box arts yet, and at present, the only box art with this title has a cosmetic border around it, and once an appropriate boxart appears for the PAL version, we'll switch it. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Geez, why are you always so "Sarcastically Isulting" in your responses? You could just say it and be done with it. GEM036 (talk) 18:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

We should use the US name because this is the US Wikipedia. So there... Chaoshi (talk) 19:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It's actually the English Wikipedia. Still, I think we need to go with either the title under which the game is first released (Shake) or the US title because it's the title under which the most copies will likely sell. Rhindle The Red (talk) 03:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

1. Nintendogs - 7 million/4 million
2. Brain Training - 2.5 million/1.3 million
3. More Brain Training - 2 million/1.1 million

Left = PAL sales, right = US sales. Have you seen the European sales charts? The top ten for the United Kingdom has 9/10 games for the Wii. And the DS sells 200,000 on average per WEEK, that means that an average month is about 800,000 across the PAL regions, while in the US, the DS sold 723,000 in the month where GHOT's bundle was released. Your logic of "better sales" is faulty and could never be true, and in all likelihood, because of the limited sales info available, it wouldn't be a very citable figure. And because Wario Land: The Shake Dimension was known to many because it was announced under this title long before Wario Land: Shake It! appeared, and was the only title known to people in English regions. The reason to change the title is very weak - the only reason provided, for the most part, is "it's the US title". - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think you've made some odd choices there. Those are all DS games, not Wii titles. And they are *very* different kinds of games than what we are talking about. Take a more reasonable comparison (a first party platform title for the Wii). "Super Paper Mario" sold .58 million in Japan, 1.12 million in North America and .7 million in the rest of the world. . It's fair to assume that with 2 million more Wiis sold in NA than in Europe and other regions (besides Japan) that Super Paper Mario numbers are a more reasonable expectation for this title's success than the ones you've cited. (BTW, where are your numbers from? They are considerably different (although with the same basic region breakdown) as the ones I can find.)

It's also fair to point out that the majority of the English-speaking game media is based in the US and "Shake It" will be the more common title used. A Yahoo! search shows a much higher occurance of "Shake It" than "The Shake Dimension". I think we need to go with the English name most people will be familiar with and I think that will be "Shake It". Rhindle The Red (talk) 20:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

You cited a NeoGAF forum member's site, a site which uses estimates based on the number of copies shipped. And just to make it clear - your entire argument is based solely on speculation. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know what "NeoGAF" is, so that comment means nothing to me. You, meanwhile, have still not provided a source for your numbers, which are for titles completely dissimilar and unrelated to this one. Please provide the source for your numbers and I will gladly replace the VGChartz ones with the ones your source provides. While they may be different, I feel it is likely they will show the same basic breakdown. If your source shows differently (i.e. that the EU sales are higher than the NA sales) I will gladly retract that as an argument.

As for my argument being based solely on speculation, no, I don't think it is. I think it is based on the notion that numbers for this game will be similar to numbers for another game, for which I provided a source, and that the more commonly used title is the one that should be used. Your argument, on the other hand, seems to basically be "this was here first, so should be here forever". That is, of course, patently untrue. I agree that the argument that the US title should predominate simply for being the US title is silly, but you have not been able to counter other, more valid, arguments that support the name change. Rhindle The Red (talk) 01:41, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Your argument can only work if it applies to every single video game article ever made. And it IS patently true. Wikipedia guidelines say that if a title is stable, and without any good reason to move (and potential better sales is NOT a good reason to move), it should stay where it is. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:00, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

A more commonly used title *is* a reason to move. The sales (along with the Yahoo! search) are just a way to indicate which is the more commonly used title. Rhindle The Red (talk) 06:09, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

And yeah, it's not even OUT and you're saying its sales figures and common usage is reason enough. I doubt you'll be able to sufficiently establish that this unreleased title will sell better in the US, and even if it does, you have to show that it's so much better selling than the EU title that it warrants moving. - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

My point is that sales and common usage *can* be viable arguments for moving the title. You seem to feel that it would be very hard to justify the move; I disagree. But you are right, the title has not yet come out. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. So I will not move the title now (not that I was going to without consensus, anyway), but we'll revisit this in, say, January, when it will be clearer what is the most common English language title. Rhindle The Red (talk) 14:18, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that's pretty sad. You're going to plan an agenda to move a title with the basis that "it might sell better in the US!". You have no reason to expect that it will sell better, so may I just assume that since your basis is nonexistent, all you really care about is using the US title because it's the US title? You have to establish that the disparity between the two titles' common usage and sales is so great that the title needs to be changed. Which means that either it has to bomb in PAL regions, or do exceptionally well in North America. And looking back, both Brain Trainings sold exceptionally well in PAL regions, much more so than they did in North America. In fact, the NA release of Brain Training was actually criticized by Iwata for being low compared to North America - Hell, the original title is still one of the best-selling games in PAL regions, not one of the best-selling DS titles, but one of the best-selling titles week to week. Not so much with North America, where it's not even one of the top-selling DS titles month to month. But guess what? It remains at Brain Age and Brain Age 2 respectively, because the articles have been at those titles and have been stable for a very long time. You better be able to prove very strongly that the North American title is significantly more well-known by January, and on top of that, you better be able to establish that the disparity is SO great, that the title must be changed, so yes, it IS very hard to justify the move - "it sold one more copy" or "it has one more Google hit" are not valid arguments. You have to establish that the NA title sold exceptionally well, to the point where leaving it at this title would be BAD, or establish that the PAL title sold exceptionally bad, to the point where leaving it there would be bad for the article. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:32, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Look, I've been respectful with you, but you have not shown the same level of good faith with me. I specifically said that I did *not* have any plans to try and move this title. I said that I felt this issue could be revisited at a later date, not that I had an "agenda". And I gave you a reason why I expect that it will sell better in the US, but you refused to acknowledge it. You have accused me of just "wanting the US title" despite the fact that I never said that and the fact that I gave you very specific (and supported) reasons why I thought "Shake It!" *could* be the more appropriate title. Far from me being the one who is being single-minded, you seem to have some sort of issue with this kind of US/UK title discrepancy to the point where you lash out first, listen to arguments later. (See below.) The difference between us is that I have no problem with the title staying where it is if that's the right one. You seem unwilling (or extremely reluctant) to accept that there could ever be a valid reason to move. And please do not think that you are in the position to dictate if, when or under what conditions this page will move. Wikipedia is collaborative and hostile attitudes are not generally welcomed.

But to clarify it for you, after the title has been out for a while, I will check to see which title is more commonly used. If I feel that the title should be changed, I will officially propose it (using a tag on the page to increase the number of opinions) at that time. If there are not enough responses to achieve consensus (meaning not just you and me and a couple of others), I'll list a request for comment. Either way, a decision will be made and we'll move forward collaboratively. Rhindle The Red (talk) 18:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the fact that you have been fighting to change the title to the US title because of a nonexistent argument of "it might sell better". I'm not reluctant that it can't sell better, I'm reluctant that you can establish that leaving it at this title would be bad for Wikipedia. There's one fact you need to accept, that naming conventions say that if an article's title is stable, it doesn't need to be moved, and quite frankly, the North American title selling better does NOT establish instability. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Glad to see you've taken that request to accept my comments in good faith to heart. It would be nice if you would acknowledge what I actually say, rather than what you want to hear.

I have not fought "to change the title to the US title" at all. I have merely stated my opinion that we should either go with the original Japanese title or the more common English title, which I believe will ultimately prove to be "Shake It!". I have even stated that I would defer that until the question is settled. My argument is not "nonexistant" it is viable and backed by sources. You only call it nonexistant because you do not agree with it. (This is called "acting in bad faith".) I have specifically said that I will not push for a rename unless and until my projections concerning sales and usage prove true.

You have not backed up anything you have said, right down to these "naming conventions" you keep mentioning. Please show me where Wikipedia's policys, guidelines or manual of style agree with you. (As with my request for your sales numbers, which went unheeded, I really want to know. I couldn't find it.) I know nothing of this "instability" question you are speaking of. Rhindle The Red (talk) 19:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

[1] - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:57, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Unfortunately, that doesn't actually support your position. This article is only two months old and has only been at its current title since early June. That is hardly long enough to qualify it as being "stable for a long time". As this title has not been "stable for a long time", a discussion to determine a correct title according to this guideline on naming conflicts seems appropriate. That guideline states "If the name of an inanimate or non-human entity is disputed by two jurisdictions and one or more English-language equivalents exists, use the commonest English-language name." If research shows "Shake It!" to be the "commonest English name", it would, therefore, be appropriate to move it. Rhindle The Red (talk) 20:57, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

So you suddenly have the power to establish how long a "long time" is? And you're citing one part of a naming conventions but ignoring another? By January, it WILL be stable for a long time. Like I've said so many times, being slightly more common is not a good reason to move a stable article. It is known as The Shake Dimension in Australia, New Zealand, all of Europe, and South Africa. That naming convention cannot override mine. It has to be a good reason - that is, a reason so compelling that it would establish that it would be wrong to NOT move it. And besides American bias (Wii games sell equally as well or better in Europe, thanks), there's no reason to make an agenda and assume that your stance on an unreleased game's sales. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I do have the right to hold an opinion on how long "a long time" is. And I think most would agree with me. (Where it is in January is irrelevant. *Right now* it has not been stable for "a long time"). Please feel free to ask some admins whether less than two months qualifies as "stable for a long time".

My position, if you would take the time to check, is that I think it will be more than "slightly more common".

Today from Yahoo!: "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension" - 998,000[2] / "Wario Land: Shake It!" - 1,870,000 [3]

Today from Google: "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension" - 293,000 [4] / "Wario Land: Shake It!" - 385,000 [5]

Today from MSN search: "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension" - 50,000 [6] / "Wario Land: Shake It!" - 170,000 [7]

That is not "slightly more common". That is significantly more common, in my opinion. I also think that the numbers will only favor "Shake It!" more as we approach release. (After all, as you yourself pointed out, it's been around a shorter period of time, but has already become more common.)

And I will ask you to stop accusing me of bias. I have done nothing to indicate it. It shows your continuing lack of good faith. I have ignored nothing and I have treated your views with respect. I ask that you do the same.

And here's my last point for now. If you take everything you have said at face value and accept that there is no reason to move this title now or even in January if I am proven correct, then there was no real reason to move it before and it should still be at Wario Land: Shake - the title that was *first* revealed, the title *you* started this article under and an option I also endorsed, btw. (Which should settle your nonsensical "American bias" charge.)

But, regardless of what you think, I have only the accuracy and viability of the encyclopedia in mind. Call it an "agenda" if that makes you feel better, but I will abide by my original plan and may (or may not) revisit this at a later date. Rhindle The Red (talk) 23:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

1. Besides the fact that Google hits are purely anecdotal and are far too weak to be a front-running reason to move an article, less than 1 million hits does NOT constitute it being "significantly more common". And on top of this, your Google hits also establish that The Shake Dimension is also a common title. Hell, Google's search for the two titles shows hardly any disparity - less than 100k is hardly a significant difference.
2. No real reason to move from a non-English title to an English title? The guideline that you cited says to use English titles, is that not a real reason right when it backs me up? - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:47, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

ALTTP, let's be honest. Had the U.S. and PAL names come out at the same time, teh U.S. name would get priority. You seem to forget that despite Wiki-equality, the U.S. name automatically recieves more importance. The only reason the PAL name is being used is because it showed up a little before the U.S. title. You seem to think that your stubburness is ALWAYS reason enough to do what you say, but if we took this to a vote, which we SHOULD!, the U.S. name would be the one on top. And what's more is that the U.S. version is coming out BEFORE the PAL version. So how about we take this to a vote and see what happens. GEM036 (talk) 00:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

So basically, I'm stubborn because I don't think that Wikipedia should consider "being the US title" as a top priority argument for a naming convention. Yeah, that's great circle logic, be biased because of past bias. The reason we use EVERY SINGLE TITLE on EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE is either it started with it, or editors decided that there was a need to move it to where it is now. NOT because "it's the US title". Your proposition is so blatantly far and away from anything even vaguely, remotely resembling equality, and is through-and-through saying that we should use the US title JUST because it's the US title. You already admitted that the bias towards US titles is in spite of how Wikipedia should work, and you're saying that we should go against how Wikipedia should work just because other people do so? That's like saying you can break the law because other people do so as well. The title will not be changed "because it's a US title lol", and I can hardly take you seriously anymore.

And two things - one, your discussion of a "vote" - if a DISCUSSION, not a vote, took place, and none of the editors who only care about the title being US-centric (ie you) were able to provide an extremely compelling reason, which does not include the origins of the title, Google hits, or slightly better sales (and no, if both versions sell, say, more than 10 million, but Wario Land Shake It does one million more, that is NOT a compelling reason to move - you must establish that the title it's at right now is bad, not that another title is good). If everyone "voted" for Wario Land Shake It! and had no compelling reason to do so, consensus rules say that the discussion would default to keeping it at the current title. It would be like if there was an AfD, and everyone "voted" Delete except for a few dissenters, if the delete "voters" didn't give an argument while the keep "voters" provided very compelling arguments why the article shouldn't be deleted, it will be kept.

And on the subject of release date, being released three days before the Australian version establishes a need to move? Funny how when the European version was coming before the North American version, you were for moving regardless. So an earlier release date is not a good reason to keep it where it is, but when the order of release is changed, it's all of a sudden a good reason to move a stable article? Do you have a single reason why the title it's at is unstable? - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, we need to get this formalized. I, ultimately, don't care which title this lands at, so I've put in a request to move and started a discussion area below. I will remind all participants to remain civil in this discussion and stick to valid points, not just "cause I wanna". Hopefully, we can get some additional opinions and come to a consensus on this. Rhindle The Red (talk) 01:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Cover

Don't you think that the article needs the games cover, and at least one screen? I know the cover's been released, i saw it on some French game site. Do you need it?  Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.  02:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

 Done Megata Sanshiro (talk) 10:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!  Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.  17:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Developer

It is said that the game is developed by Good-feel. However, Nintendo of Europe's site claims that Nintendo itself is the developer. --Grandy02 (talk) 12:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

E3

At E3 2008, they confirmed the game will be releasing a week earlier. So the American version will come out first.AlexanderLD (talk) 14:02, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

That's nice. We knew about "The Shake Dimension"'s title long before the NA title. There is no problem in the article being at this title, and no reason to move it to the NA title. - A Link to the Past (talk) 14:44, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Title Error

why is the article's title "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension"? it wasn't sourced so I added a tag. the box art says "Wario Land: Shake It", isn't that the real title? anyway, either the title or the box art needs to be fixed so that it actually makes since, the article is very confusing and no reason is given why the first title is used over the one on the box art, it should be in the intro or something. cordially, 74.215.110.151 (talk) 01:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Because Shake Dimension is the first title announced, and how many times do you see "evidence" that the North American title is the proper title? Almost never, since editors are largely American, and thusly, article naming is biased. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:40, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

well, then that makes no difference for this article. as an american myself, how am I to know that this is the european title? i'm basically the man-off-the-street, and the man-off-the-street isn't likely to know right off the top of his head that this is the one article on wikipedia that doesn't go by an american title (and that there's a bias to begin with). there should at least be a section somewhere explaining why the european title was used over the american title, otherwise us americans may think the title was changed on us. I read your arguments above, and I say to you, "There is also no reason why the american title can't be used". Either the article's title is changed to the american name, or the european box art is used and a sentence put somewhere in the intro explaining to the average, uninformed user (who wikipedia is supposed to cater to anyway, I didn't think this was a game site where everyone is "in the Know") that "Wario Land:The Shake Dimension" is the european title. I don't mean to get carried away, but if there is a bias then something should be done to solve that bias, not stubbornly promote it by saying "it's been biased in favor of one side forever, and now is our chance to get revenge by being equally biased". I apologize for my frankness, but I strongly feel something must be done. cordially, 74.215.110.151 (talk) 02:04, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry for forgetting that Americans should be treated special. If it has to be explained why one title is used over another English title, then it has to be done in EVERY SINGLE CASE. The only reason you care is because you're American and want an American title. There isn't a PAL box art yet that is presentable, and so we used the next best representation for the box art. You're in no position to make ultimatums. Would you ask the same for when a North American title is used over the PAL title? Probably not. People in the PAL region would be just as confused at that. And wow, bias? I'm really sick of ignorant American Wikipedians who call it biased to NOT use the North American title. You're not the first person to object on the basis of "USA #1!". If it weren't for the fact that all you care about is that the American title is not being used, I'd take your complaints more seriously. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't appreciate your attitude towards this. I offered an alternate solution (replacing the box art with the european version and a simple explanation why the european version is preferred) besides changing the title, but you met it with sarcasm, negativity, and rudeness. if I were a more hot-headed person, I would report you (I know editors aren't supposed to act the way you just acted). instead, I ask that you apologize immediately for your attitude and remarks, or I will register and will report you. now, as I said, we have the second option. what is wrong with using the european box art for consistency's sake? just because you have a tiff with the system doesn't mean you should make a WP:POINT (yes, I know about that, I do edit around here from time to time as an "ignorant" american) and dismiss me. i'll even look for the european box art and figure out how upload it myself if need be. all i'm saying is that the article and the common reader should not suffer because you think it should be one way and I think it should be another; we are both fully capable of compromise, no matter how "ignorant" an american I am. cordially, 74.215.110.151 (talk) 02:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for the statements. But what explanation do you provide to change a stable article's title? And I said that you were an "ignorant American" because, honestly, would you have objected to any North American title? I need to provide an explanation no more than others do for North American titles. The first English title was The Shake Dimension, The Shake Dimension is coming mere days after Shake It!, and there simply is no reason to move it at this point. The notice is more than enough to tell readers of why it's at the title that it's at. Both are legitimate titles, and the mere fact that The Shake Dimension is the FIRST legitimate title is enough to warrant it being here. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:51, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the apology; I think we can both agree that conflict is something we want to avoid, this is really a trivial matter. You do make a valid point, but again, how many readers will know where your notice is? I suppose we can set that aside however, and hope that the game's release will clear things up. in other words, that by then most american readers (we decidedly aren't the most intelligent people in the world, and I agree there is some bias in favor of americans here, but I take great offense when I'm lumped in with the majority) realize that the title here is european. the more important issue at hand is consistency. I will no longer argue the title, but I believe that if we use the title from one region, we must also use the equivalent box art. I tried to find the european box art myself, but was unsuccessful, so it likely hasn't been revealed (unless I didn't look hard enough). therefore, I only ask if we can agree that when the european box art is revealed, it be used in the article. if I find it, I will try to post a link to it here for others to upload (the process looks like a jungle at first glance, I'd rather someone else more knowledgeable did it). anyway, I apologize to you for coming across as ignorant; I strive to create a good impression with everyone I meet, online or otherwise (excuse the typing, but don't expect it to improve). cordially, 74.215.110.151 (talk) 03:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I've personally seen the PAL box art. But the quality isn't good enough to be used. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:20, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Then we'll just have to wait for a better image. in retrospect, I brought this up too soon for the solution to be implemented; I wonder if it would have made a difference if I had decided to wait a month before posting. anyway, sorry for taking up your time, we both got a little hot under the collar, but all in all no harm done. cordially, 74.215.110.151 (talk) 03:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Is the qualitiy of this box art good enough? --Grandy02 (talk) 14:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to change the current box art. Any box art is acceptable but this one was uploaded first. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 00:09, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

It's for consistency, to match the title. It confuses the reader if the box art doesn't match the title. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

The two titles are indicated in the lead AND in the infobox. There is no reason to be confused. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 22:37, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

To play devil's advocate, why is changing the box art to match the title considered acceptable, but not changing the title to match the box art? Pagrashtak 20:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Because it was at this title before the box art was there, and the box art was left there because we didn't have an appropriate substitute. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Can't we use both covers? --(trogga) 04:51, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I tried it on another article, but it was believed that there could not be an appropriate fair use rationale to have two depictions of the game's box art. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Really? Somehow the article for Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen was able to get away with using two box arts in the infobox, but that could be because one of them is a remake. While I'm here, I thought I'd give my opinion on the title. If the North American title is used first for an article, I think it should be used. If the European title was used first, as the case here appears to be, then I think that should be used. The only time I think the North American title should always be used is with the main Dragon Quest games (such as the one I linked to), since the European titles are basically the North American ones without the numbering, though that doesn't apply here. --Evice (talk) 20:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Whoops, forgot to mention that I think that the European box art linked to previously should be used in this article (to match the title) if both the North American and European box art can't be used at the same time. It's kind of inconsistent to use the title from one region and the box art from another. --Evice (talk) 20:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I just ran a little test and googled "Wario Shake". The PAL title didn't come up until page 6 of the results, and then again on page 8. Unless you count this article which showed up on page 1 :) The title is probably a little confusing for most users, but it's only a video game...66.194.50.2 (talk) 20:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Release

I already brought this up, at E3 2008, Nintendo announced they would be releasing Wario Land: Shake It! one week earlier on September 22 instead of the 29th. Here is the source so please stop undoing my edit! http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/CtPFuNHwPv6PGNLjbDPNAodeTtJ6uQp6 AlexanderLD (talk) 02:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Redirect

Someone needs to set up redirects for the various titles. I know at least the "Shake It!" variant doesn't redirect here. I'd do it, but I don't know how. Dfsghjkgfhdg (talk) 02:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

For future reference, to make a redirect, go to the title you want to make into a redirect, type (for example) "#REDIRECT [[Wario Land: The Shake Dimension]]" If you redirect a title through merging (that is, if you merge one article's contents into another), you would put {{R from merge}} after that first line, if it's for an alternate name, you type {{R from alternate name}}. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus, default to no move. JPG-GR (talk) 21:16, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Wario Land: The Shake Dimension → Wario Land: Shake It! — It is the more common English title. — Rhindle The Red (talk) 01:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support

• Support. It's not out of bias, it's out of being consistant. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and normally uses the N.A. names. Since all articles are supposed to be consistant, it would be in the article's best interest to use the N.A. name. GEM036 (talk) 04:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Using the PA title is dumb anyway. Other articles don't do this, why should this be the first?Chaoshi (talk) 05:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Support. "Shake It!" is already the most common title being used and will likely only grow more common as we approach release. Being the first English title announced is not strong enough reason to retain this title, especially given the fact that it will release in NA first. Rhindle The Red (talk) 13:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Support. If we're not going to use the PAL cover, why should we use the PAL title? --(trogga) 02:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
  • That's a reason to change the boxart, not the title. We're using the PAL title because it was the way the article was named in the first place. If you think it can be changed because of the box art, why don't you simply propose we change the box art? - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

• Oppose. I personally oppose that the name be changed to suit the americans. The PAL version box art was the only one i could find, but i am keeping an eye out for the Australian PAL version box art. The PAL version name of Wario Land will be used a lot more because a lot of the players of the game are from countries that use the PAL television system e.g Australia, Europe, the UK, Germany, Italy etc. Besides, the PAL version name sounds better and the PAL box art is a lot better then the NA version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theprophet08 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. As Wario Land The Shake Dimension was the first english language title announced for this game changing the title would cause confusion, it is clearly stated in the first line of the article what the game is called in the various regions Golden Dragoon (talk) 10:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose Wikipedia discourages disruption and there is no strong arguments for a name change. The current name is fine and is not controversial. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 10:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. Barring Google hits, there is nothing to even hint that there's any reason to change a stable title. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose game is called it in the various regions only it call it Wario Land Shake in America --Andri12 (talk) 00:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

In response to TheProphet08, where are you getting this information? You are stating that it "Sounds Better" and "Looks Better", which is not relevent to the discussion. And numbers show that the N.A. title is more commonly used. GEM036 (talk) 04:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Um, what? You need to understand Wikipedia better. "Consistency?" There's not one Wikipedia policy that exists or ever will exist that suggests we should name every video game by its North American title. Your logic suggests that even if a title sells almost nothing in North America but sells, say, 20 million in Europe, if it was made in Europe, if it came out in Europe first, it should be at the NA title, in spite of the fact that there's really nothing that would suggest it would be good for the article. There is no such thing as "title consistency". The politics for naming a title are exclusive for EACH article. Brain Age may have a valid reason to be named what it is, but Brain Age 2 was inappropriately placed where it is in the name of consistency. You'd be hardpressed to find any guideline or policy encouraging consistency. Article titles are where they are depending on varying factors, but the name of another title is NOT one of those factors. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:02, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Contrary to what some supporters suggest, we do *not* always use the American name on Wikipedia. We use the most common title. A perfect example is Sega Mega Drive. If that position were true, it would be Sega Genesis. But as "Mega Drive" was used not only in Europe, but also in Japan, it is the most common title. With three competing English titles (Japan, US, Europe), we need to choose the one most likely to be used by the general public and by readers of the Wikipedia. At this point it seems clear that it will be "Shake It!".

I agree that just because other articles use the NA name is not a reason to move. But they can serve as an indicator that editors in the past have agreed that when the NA name is the most common, that title should be used. Specific comparisons would be required.Rhindle The Red (talk) 13:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Theprophet08, I agree with the above that "sounds better" and "looks better" are hardly valid reasons for keeping the title where it is. And please do not imply that we are just trying to "suit the Americans". You may disagree with the positions given, but there has been no indication that it is just for the sake of the American name prevailing. Rhindle The Red (talk) 13:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Golden Dragoon, you fail to explain why there would be confusion. As I have stated before, the article has existed for only about two months and has not yet been at its current title for that long. It's hardly a well-established article. Moving it now would ease any confusion that could potentially arise down the road. Besides, Wikipedia is a dynamic place. Articles move all the time. Confusion is not really an issue here. Rhindle The Red (talk) 13:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

ALTTP, I find it odd that you would bring up Brain Age 2, as you were essentially suggesting there what we are suggesting here. You had some pretty solid arguments, but the discussion just kind of petered out. You should have formalized it as I have here. Rhindle The Red (talk) 13:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I bring up Brain Age 2 because it was an example of a game that is definitely more well-known in the here and now in PAL regions than in North America. However, I find it hard to assume good faith when you were talking about "oh I'll wait till January", and when I bring up the issue of stability, you suddenly change your mind. I don't see how showing that between two well-known titles, that one has more Google hits, establishes instability. The problem with Brain Age 2 is not that I didn't formalize it properly, it's that the article was not unstable, which is why I never bothered to bring the issue back up anymore. I don't have to establish why this article should stay where it's at, you have to establish why it shouldn't. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Rhindle The Red, As I stated I think that as The Shake Dimension was the first announced English title, that changing it at this point would cause confusion, I personaly had never heard the game mentioned as anthing other than T.S.D. until reading this article, and if this wario game follows the precedent of Wario World it will sell more copys in PAL regions (unable to remember issue number, but nGamer (at the time NGC Magazine) stated sortly after the release of WW that the EU sales were higher than the US sales). However I would like to point out that were the situation different, (google hits significatly more, or sales figures) I would not be opposed to changing the title of the main article, whilst obviously keeping redirects from T.S.D and mentioning in the first line the PAL title, just as the US title is mentioned in the first line of the curent page. Golden Dragoon (talk) 23:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

And on the point of sales, your whole point is that "video games sell better typically in the US than PAL". It is true that people buy more games in the States than in PAL, but like Nintendogs and the Brain Training titles selling better in PAL doesn't reflect on this title, video games selling better typically doesn't, either. Video games selling better in general doesn't matter if Wario Land games don't sell better in general, and I see nothing to establish that. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Chaoshi other articles do use PAL titles where it can be shown that the tile is in wider use, or where sales figures have indicated that the game has sold more under the PAL\AUS\JAP titles, just off the top of my head is Colin McRae DiRT, which is titled simply DiRT elsewhere but the article uses the PAL name. Golden Dragoon (talk) 00:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Colin McRae: DiRT uses the PAL name because it was developed by English developers for an English publisher. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 06:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Both are fine, so we can stick with the current title. "Well, it's marginally more popular in [region foo]" isn't enough of an argument to shift the status quo. Also, discussion always wins because voting is dumb. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I can accept that. As long as it's the Majority vote, I shall not question it! GEM036 (talk) 05:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

This isn't a vote. If there were five supports and three opposes, it could lose if an admin decides that the argument for moving was not substantial enough. It's not based on "majority rule". - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

A Man In Bl♟ck, in that case we should immediatly rename this article Wario Rando Sheiku (Japanese game, Japanese developer, Japanese Publisher), I jest :). Whilst it is true that it is a game developed in England, I beleive that it is simply the fact that the game is more known for the Colin McRae dirt name and is thus titled that, in any case, I see no reason to argue\discuss this any more as until something happens that changes the status quo. Golden Dragoon (talk) 07:50, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Character name problem

In the Gameplay section, it states that the character's name is Merfle, while in the Plot section, it is referred to as a "Merelda subject". This is an obvious problem. Which one is correct? 82.32.90.49 (talk) 21:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

WAIT - me again. I've had a revelation - I don't think EITHER is correct. Most sources state the name as being Melful. Now here's where I think someone got Merfle from: a mistranslation. Correct me if I'm wrong but in Japanese, aren't the L and R sounds virtually interchangeable? If someone were to mistranslate the L as an R you'd end up with "Merful", or perhaps "Merfle". 82.32.90.49 (talk) 08:17, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Marketing

I'm not sure that the marketing for the game deserves an entire section, but at least the http://youtube.com/experiencewii bit deserves a mention I think because of how unusual it is (especially WHERE it is; I've personally never seen something like that done through a youtube channel page before). What do others think? Dfsghjkgfhdg (talk) 22:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Corrections

A number of tidbits in the article are inconsistent with what has actually appeared in the North American version of the game. It is likely that the PAL version will be identical to the North American version with the exceptions of additional languages and a different title screen graphic, so the following may need to be changed.

If the proposed changes for whatever reason do not apply to the PAL version, then several notes will need to be made in the article.

• "Yuretopia" is officially referred to as the Shake Dimension in-game.
• "Merfle" is used to describe the inhabitants of the Shake Dimension as well as address them by name, as demonstrated by Captain Syrup's dialog in the conversation in the first stage and during the ending cut-scene. While a Merfle is trapped in every stage, there are in fact many different Merfles all of whom seem to be called Merfle. A later feature in the game states that Merfle will inform you of Secret Maps, again introducing ambiguity as each stage's Merfle is different, yet refers to them all collectively as the singular name Merfle... A bit confusing, but blame that on Nintendo.
• The "Merelda subjects" mentioned in the article, therefore, would be referred to as Merfles.
• Wario never comes into contact with Queen Merelda until after she is rescued. The "beseeched" sentence in the article is incorrect, as well as a later statement about her sending out Wario to save the Shake Dimension.
• Is Captain Syrup's name really Maple? I'm not up on my Wairo Land lore.
• Bringing it up yet again, there's an inconsistency with the article title and the pictured box cover. The article title doesn't need to be changed, but if it isn't then the box art certainly does. --12.214.116.18 (talk) 04:29, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree. I really feel it would make most sense to change the article title. Since July/August when it was first proposed, Wario Land: Shake It has undoubtably become the more common title for this game. A Google search for the European title today gives around 1 million hits, while the American title gives around 3 million. That's unarguably a significant bias towards the American title. All other major search engines give similar results, with the American title winning out by at least 2:1. As well, all major gaming sites are using the American title as well. There's really no need for this article to use what by this time has become the less common title for the game. Bngrybt (talk) 18:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
    • For Heaven's sake, will you drop it? You established both titles are popular titles, so how in the world is there any instability whatsoever? - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
      • That was my first post in this discussion, I'm not sure why you're so hostile. I'm just saying that the most recognizable name should be the one used. For some reason it seems to be a hot topic with you in this article and I'm not sure why. I'm just using one of the methods suggested by Wikipedia:Naming conflict, the Google test, and it shows that by far, Wario Land: Shake It is the more recognizable name. Even within the article, every English review mentioned under reception used the Wario Land: Shake It title. There should be some sort of uniformity to avoid confusion, and using the most commonly used title is the most logical way to do this. I don't see how this would suddenly show an undue bias towards the American title. I'm not even American and I think it should be the one used just to make the article less confusing. Bngrybt (talk) 23:01, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
        • So your only reason is that "they're both very commonly used, one is just more so". So it's unstable because one is MORE popular? The only reason to change a title of a game is if the current title is so inappropriate for use that leaving it there harms the article, and both having very high Google hits is not an establishment of instability, no matter how you present it. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
          • I don't see why this is so difficult. There are two English titles for the game. This has obviously caused some confusion as to which name should be used. An article should only have one title, and that should be the title used throughout the article to avoid confusion. Currently, the article's title doesn't match up with a great deal of the article content, so one or the other should be chosen. If you read Wikipedia:Naming conventions, the very first thing it says is "Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." Hence, the most common name should be used, which is obviously the American title. Bngrybt (talk) 23:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
            • "If an article name has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should remain." From the guideline you cite. Saying that of two highly used names for this game, one is more popular, is not a good reason to move. You have to establish instability, which you would know if you really understood that guideline. You have to establish that there is a good reason to move. That would be "current title is not bad", not "current title is not as good". - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
              • The title isn't stable though. Half of this discussion page seems to be about the title, and for some reason with this particular game it seems to be a hot topic, most likely because the less common title is the one used as the title of the article. As well, the article is inconsistent with itself in what title it uses. The article uses the PAL title, the box art shows the American title, then the article again uses the PAL title until the Reception section, where the American title is used again. Because of this, the title is obviously the source of some confusion, which would suggest to me anything but stability. Hence, to remove any confusion, "Use the most easily recognized name". Bngrybt (talk) 02:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
                • You're seriously citing that "a whole bunch of people oppose the current title"? That many disagree with this title's usage for insufficient reasons is not sufficient reasoning. And, just curious, why are you suggesting that the title, which predates both the box art and the Reception section, be changed? The Shake It! box art was used because no other quality box art was available, and the Reception section uses Shake It! because Shake It! was just released. That many people disagree with this title does not become a good reason if they don't have good reasons to move it. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
                  • The PAL title only predates the American one by a few days, and I hardly see why the date we discovered the name holds more weight over which title is now more common. By that same measure, the American game was released a few days before the European, but to me that's just getting petty. I never said the reasoning was because "a whole bunch of people oppose it". As of now, the disparities between the article, box art, and title are confusing and inconsistent. That's the only point I've been trying to make. In a case like this, the more recognized title should be the one used. Bngrybt (talk) 11:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
                    • And if only that were the case on Wikipedia, huh? The Shake Dimension was the title used for about a month before Shake It! was announced. Wikipedia demands that a title be unstable at its location, and you've not established instability anywhere. Drop it, seriously. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:32, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

If I may interject for a moment. I took an objective opinion examining the name for this article. Two of the links to reviews refer to the title as Wario Land: Shake It! while the other (which isn't exactly a review) simply calls it Wario Land Shake. Also, in doing the Google Test recommended on Wikipedia:Naming_conflict, I found 2,320,000 hits for Wario Land: Shake It![8] and 1,320,000 hits for Wario Land: The Shake Dimension[9]; a difference of exactly 1 million (I know, weird isn't it). While I do agree that "The Shake Dimension" has been around longer, I think that "Shake It!" has proved itself to be the common name. I am open to counter arguments however.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 16:40, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The point that you are overlooking is that the current title must be unstable. It's not about which one is better - because this title has been used for so long, there's no good reason to switch it - there's nothing wrong with the current title, so there's no reason to change it. - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me what you define as "unstable". The fact that there are a lot of people who seem to want it changed implies to me that the title is not entirely stable. Not to mention that the article itself links to many references referring to it as "Shake It!". Granted there are others referring to it as "The Shake Dimension" as well. That's why I said I'm open to counter arguments. But I'm looking at the facts in this case, not subjective opinion.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 17:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

An example would be "if we leave it here, that hurts the article". Establishing that of two very popular titles for the game, one is somewhat more so, is not hurting the article - leaving the article where it's at does not harm the article, so there's no good reason to change the title. And that people want to move it without explaining why the article needs to be moved is not evidence of stability. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

My reasoning is that the title of the article seems to contradict the facts contained within it. The reviews of the game, as well as the game's own website, linked to within the article, contradict with the title. Now I'm not say the only option is to change the title, I'm just saying that either the title needs to be changed, or there needs to be a stronger justification for keeping it the way it is within the article and not just on the talk page.

Also, I think a perfect dictionary definition of unstable would be "inconstant" which this article is.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 17:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Funny how you never once propose "changing the text to match the article". Also, explain to me why I have to justify that it's stable. It's stable unless you can show a significant problem with leaving the article where it's at. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Question, what are you talking about? The article consistently uses The Shake Dimension. That review sites are primarily American is not evidence of instability. If it were, that would be an argument that not one video game released in North America and some PAL regions cannot ever use the PAL title. And just curious - did you expect the American web site to call it by its PAL name? - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:35, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, first off, I don't know what you mean by "changing the text to match the article". All I was saying is that there needs to be a little bit more consistency between the article and the links within it. For example: "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension received a score of 8.4 out of 10 from IGN" is a false statement. IGN did not give any rating to Wario Land: The Shake Dimension. This rating was given to Wario Land: Shake It!. Another inconstancy is that the article has a link to it's official site, but that site is for Shake It! not The Shake Dimension. The fact that The Shake Dimension is used consistently is what's making the article inconsistent.

I'm not flat out saying you're wrong or that I am 100% right. What I'm saying is that it's possible your opinion on the matter isn't the only one that maters. And the only reason I'm asking you to justify it's stability is because that seems to be your only argument against a name change.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 17:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

That is NOT instability. Why don't you read what I say? At what point does "Shake It! is the more popular title amongst these two titles for this game" mean that the current title makes the article unstable? You need to establish that if we leave it at this title, it will harm the article. Your Google hits established that BOTH titles were popular. It's not a false statement to say that The Shake Dimension received a 9.0 out of 10. Articles that use NA titles don't switch the title to the PAL title when referring to reviews from PAL sources, and I doubt you've ever had issue with it until it became helpful for you to have an issue with it. Using a title consistently throughout the article is common practice, and it's not going to change just because it's not in favor of the NA title. There's a reason that an attempt to move JUST failed - there isn't sufficient reasoning behind it. YOU have to show instability, and I don't know why you keep listing trivial details like "well, of these two popular titles, this one's somewhat more popular!" If you had this evidence back when the article first started, there would be no issue of stability because it would have been just started. But it's been here for nearly five months, you need a little better reason than that. And will you stop telling me to prove stability? It's your obligation to establish that it needs to be moved - Wikipedia would be a horrible place if someone could just come and demand proof of stability out of nowhere. The thing with stability is that it's hard to prove because there's nothing to establish it besides observation, which is POV, and your arguments is supported with no evidence of instability. Would it hurt the article for the title to remain where it is? - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be putting words in my mouth (or on my keyboard as the case may be). I have never said it was the more popular name, I said it was the more common name. You may see this as semantics, but so is your quibble about stable/unstable/instability. As far as the false statement, IGN did not review Wario Land: The Shake Dimension. A more accurate phrasing of the statement may be: "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension (reviewed as Wario Land: Shake It!) received a score of 8.4 out of 10 from IGN".

As far as the "would it hurt the article" argument is concerned. I am of the opinion that, if the article remains in its present state, the validity of the article is hurt. Then again, that's my opinion, just as it's your opinion that it is stable.

One more thing I'd like to address. You said "...and I doubt you've ever had issue with it until it became helpful for you to have an issue with it... If you had this evidence back when the article first started, there would be no issue of stability because it would have been just started. But it's been here for nearly five months, you need a little better reason than that." I'd like to tell you that I just came across this article today. Also, yes the article may have been here for 5 months, buy the game was just released. Before its release date, Nintendo could have just as easily changed it for any of the localizations. Now that it's out is, I think, the perfect time to debate the name.

I won't be back to continue this issue for several hours, but please, continue with your thoughts. I enjoy debating with you, just please don't take anything I say as a personal attack.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 18:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

*facepalm* It's the SAME GAME. Why don't you explain why this is magically a problem NOW? This is how it's done. We don't randomly switch between names based on silly semantics. I asked you a simple question - why is this is a problem now? All articles do it, but now that it's an article that uses the PAL title, it's suddenly a problem. If you can't establish instability, it's stable. There is no opinion in that. It's a fact. If all you have is Google hits, then it's not unstable. Google hits are anecdotal, and quite frankly, all you've ever stated was that of two popular names, one is more popular, which shows that both names are fine. If both names are fine, according to Google hits, then where is the article unstable? - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Might I bring this discussion to a screeching halt, call it a dead horse, and redirect attention to the other changes to the article that I've proposed? --12.214.116.18 (talk) 23:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding those changes, I managed to find the PAL release box art. I've replaced the infobox picture and moved the NA box art further down the page. I also added the official UK site in addition to the US site. I think the article more accurately shows that there are two official names for the game then it did before. And A Link to the Past, I was never saying that the article title needed to be changed, I just meant that some part of the article needed to be changed. I hope you can agree that the changes I made were appropriate.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 06:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

As far as the other changes go, I haven't actually played the game yet, buy I have played many of the others, and I don't ever remember Captain Syrup's first name ever being stated.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 06:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks like user A Man In Black has thwarted your efforts and changed the article back to essentially being a "Shake It!" article with a "The Shake Dimension" title. If we're going to solve this little dispute, I think it's going to require some administrative intervention. --12.214.116.18 (talk) 21:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I am an administrator. Don't make regional changes for the sake of making changes. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 23:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

For the sake of making changes? That's called vandalism, and that's not what's going on here. There's an inconsistency between the article title and the subject of the article itself. One or the other needs to be changed, and there is ample discussion supporting that the article title stays as it is. What is your rationalle for keeping the box art mismatched? --12.214.116.18 (talk) 00:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Honestly the only way to solve all these naming conflicts would be to have two separate English Wikipedias (English and UK English). It makes no sense that there's only one English Wiki, with there being two completely different dialects, and in this case, different names for the same product. All the pointless fights over Gas/Petrol and such would vanish. Am I just crazy or has anyone else thought of this? --Comrade Pajitnov (talk) 04:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Are we going to have a Southern, Northern, Eastern, Western, and Midwestern Wikipedia too? - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Detailed interview with the developers

Nintendo of Europe's site offers a detailed interview with the developers. It reveals a lot of development details which could be referred to in the article. The text is a translation of the Japanese-language interview from the Nintendo Online Magazine.

• Interview in English
• Interview in Japanese

--Grandy02 (talk) 17:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Should NA or Pal title be used?

The current article features an inconsistency with boxart and title. (PAL title is used, but NA box art is displayed). Since this is the English Wiki, and traditionally the english title is used (with the Japanese title provided in the article lead), a conflict arises when the game has two different English titles based on region. Current talking points:

• NA ("Wario Land: Shake It!") version was released first (Sept. 22, 2008)
• Google searches on PAL title produce roughly 850K results, while Google hits the NA title approx 3.6 million times.

Since the NA title was both first in the English market and also more widely spread across the Internet, I think it should be the one used. But I'd appreciate some outside opinions to help reach a peacful conclusion. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 12:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

• The first released would seem the most logical to me. Martin Hogbin (talk) 21:07, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

How many times do we have to keep discussing it? There was already consensus to use the original title, as a result of the fact that no one was able to establish that the current title is bad for the article. You have to show instability, which requires that leaving the title where it's at creates a problem, not that a different title is slightly better. We do not need an RfC over an issue that has been discussed several times and resulted in the same result. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I have seen no consensus. Only utter and absolute deadlock. Which is why I've asked for outside opinion (even if I guess I could be considered "outside" since I'm not a regular editor of this article. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 15:51, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• Note: Upon further research, there only appears to be one editor truly against the change...and that's A Link to the Past. Conversations suggesting a change have several editors agreeing, with the one steamrolling the discussion with a disagreement. Furthermore, there IS instability, as the BoxArt depicted does not match the article title. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 15:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

How is this even remotely true? Do you think that I created the four other accounts that opposed a move in the discussion - you know, that gigantic green box right on this talk page? And I find it funny that your only option provided is moving the title. Why didn't you propose changing the box art, which is far simpler than changing the title? - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

It should be painfully obvious to all that only the Japanese title is valid. Everything else is a name come up with by people who did not contribute to the game whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 03:09, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus, default to no move. JPG-GR (talk) 05:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Wario Land: The Shake Dimension → Wario Land: Shake It! — First off, there is potential for confusion between the PAL title in the article and the NA title featured in the article's primary image. Also, the official NA title predates the PAL title. Google also hits on NA title outnumber PAL title 3.6 million to 850 thousand (39:1). This qualifies the article to utilize the NA title in accordance with WP naming conventions. — -- TRTX ^{T / C} 16:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Survey (2)

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support (2)

• Support: My opinion is based on those points illustrated above. Furthmore, all conversations suggesting a rename have wide support by multiple editors, but appear to be "steamrolled" in a sense by a single disagreeing editor. I'd perform the move myself, but due to this continuing guarding of the page, it's impossible to form any kind of consensus...as any discussions are filibustered into deadlock. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 16:17, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• Support, as the game was released in NA before PAL. Also, I don't think the title and box art should be inconsistent. The Prince (talk) 17:41, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• Support The game was released in NA first and was first announced with the Shake It title (actually announced, not just rumored). TJ Spyke 14:51, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

• Support per Prince of Darkness.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 10:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
• Support we should always default to the American name. It is the newest et les enfants d'aujourd'hui ont plus options a s'amuser que les enfants meme il ya a dix ans.

Oppose (2)

• Oppose, per WP:ENGVAR. Retain existing variety. It's unclear that this topic is very associated to North America, so I don't understand why WP:ENGVAR doesn't apply. 81.98.251.134 (talk) 16:59, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. This has been discussed to death, and it has never resulted in a consensus to move. Furthermore, I might suggest TRTX to cease his accusations of bad faith - me steamrolling the discussion? It was not moved for the reason that more people disagreed with the move, and ignoring that is an act of bad faith to make the opposition look bad. At no point am I acting alone to oppose a move, anyone who clearly examined the discussions would see that the supporters are in the minority, and considering that since the Discussion header for this directed to the first discussion to move the page, you have to have known about it. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose - Arguments in favour of moving are not substantive. The release dates are very similar, it is not an issue. The Google hits argument is not grounded in reality at all, try searching yourself for related terms and you'll find Wario results including "shake it" and "shake dimension" do not have a wide margin of disparity. Shake Dimension is a valid English language name for a whole swathe of the population, the article can exist perfectly fine here. - hahnchen 15:53, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose per all previous discussions. Each time there was no consensus to move. It seems the only unstability in this article is the one generated by people who want to move the article, rather than something resulting from confusion or a lack of clarity in the article. I'd like to note that there *might* be some logic to changing the cover art (to match the article name), but there isn't much reasons to move the article name itself. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 18:11, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

My original confusion, which lead to this, came from the inconsistent use of title and art combined with the fact that my original Wiki search of "Wario Land: Shake It" lead to a "Page does not exist" (I have since created it as a redirect). Having reviewed previous discussions, I came to the conclusion that there was a deadlock as to which should be changed. Thus I opened this in the hopes that the conversation would result in SOMETHING being changed. I have gone on record in the discussion as stating that if the easier/better change is the Box Art than that's the way to go. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 19:06, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Then I support changing the cover art. Consistency is a good argument. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 16:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose As per my previous comments in the last disscusion. Golden Dragoon (talk) 01:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Discussion (2)

Any additional comments:

• Viewing the page history, I see that A Link to the Past appears to be the original creator of the article. Which gives me the feeling that there may be an unintentional situation of WP:OWN. I know that this is sometimes treated as a pretty rough accusation, but that is the impression I'm left with. Further exploring the history, I have found this, which is the original move to "Wario Land: Shake It!", which was reverted by the original creator. Another attempt here is subsequently reverted here. Note that each reversion is the same editor, while attempted renames are different ones. The author championing the PAL title also claims here that there is no "instability" even though multiple editors have voiced a disagreement. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 16:36, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
  • ALTTP, from what I have seen, always argues in support of the PAL names of the game. TJ Spyke 14:51, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
• Have you seen the previous move proposal, two months ago? There was no consensus there; what makes you think things will be different now? 81.98.251.134 (talk) 16:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

If the result had been decidedly one way or another than a reopening of the discussion wouldn't be neccesary, but since there was nothing but a deadlock...I feel the appropriate action is to reopen the discusion. Especially now since we have more facts (release dates, google hits, etc). The Google hits (coming in at nearly 40:1) should be more than sufficient to demonstrate that the NA title is the most widely recognized and used.

Also, application of WP:ENGVAR doesn't really seem to fit here, as the issue isn't the language, but rather the title (which is the most important part of the article). -- TRTX ^{T / C} 17:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

TRTX, your only argument you're pushing seems to be bias. Well, I guess considering you're from Minnesota, USA, you just want to get the article moved to the American title, since you're biased towards America. And my God, people disagree with me? Wow, way to do research! That's some good evidence. I mean, you didn't bother to point out that many people participated in the first discussion, several in support of a move and in opposition as well. Several editors disagreed that it's unstable, why don't you acknowledge them? A default to keep the article this title by that discussion, by the way, is not a good reason to bring it up every other day until you get lucky and hope people get sick of you kicking and screaming until USA is #1. The fact that you acknowledged that the debate exists makes me ask why you think I'm the only one in agreement with the title. Seriously, we don't need anymore Amerophiles on Wikipedia - you're clearly twisting the history of these discussions around to fit your contorted debate - no discussion resulted in any favor that would suggest we need to continue this discussion. Your evidence is no different from that evidence provided during the first discussion. You are obligated to give evidence to support a move, to form a consensus in favor of moving (which means like 8 to 3, not 5 to 4), and the fact that you ignored that more people opposed the move than that supported it shows me that you just want to move the page and damn the other arguments. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

No where in my opinion do I suggest nationality is an issue. My suggestion of bias stems from the fact that you created the article, and thus might unitentionally feel you "know what's best" for it. In your previous arguments, you suggest that "there is no instability" because none was established early in the articles life. However I provide examples of where this is actually more than demonstrated (multiple attempts to rename/move by multiple editors that are continually reverted by you and you alone). I attempted to dissect the orignal move discussion, but came away from it with the opinion that there WAS no consensus, and instead one (especially vocal) user managed to piledrive their point home (primarily by using this same manner of over the top emotional response and cries of regional bias). Just because you can yell the loudest doesn't mean what you're yelling is right.

I also take offense to the fact that you automatically begin screaming some form of ethnocentricism on my part simply because I'm an American. This isn't about "us vs. them", it's about following Wikipolicy and establishing the best article available. Coming in and shouting "first'd" doesn't mean the original article title is correct, accurate, or the best representation. What part of 39:1 don't you understand? It's obvious the NA title is the more widely recognized title. Which is directly in line with the first WP naming convention listed. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 17:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

←You don't have to have presented any suggestion of national bias. Why are you allowed to say I'm violating WP:OWN because I "might unintentionally feel I know what's best for it"? As long as you make such proposals, I am clearly allowed to accuse you of American bias. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Nowhere do I suggest a nationality bias on your part. My suggestion of WP:OWN stems from you being the original creator of the article and the subsequent examples of you quickly redirecting any attempts from other editors to rename the article. Your claims of some kind of ethnocentricism are completely unfounded, riddiculous, and are being used as an attempt to smokescreen the actual attempt at a discussion. This is exactly the problem that has been pointed out by other editors. Instead of discussing the facts of the situtaion, you are resorting to ad hominem attacks directed at the editors. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 18:18, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. I have no idea why you think that I can only accuse you of national bias if you do the same. Any accusation of bias warrants an adequate response. That I redirected these moves immediately is not bias. It is me saying that if you want to move the article, you must discuss it. I never once claimed that only I could determine what the article's title is, the only ones who made any claim even remotely close to that are those who pushed for the title to be changed with no discussion. So I'm sorry that I'm enforcing Wikipedia policy, that I'm allowed to revert a move and require the user to discuss it. The fact that you claim I'm creating a smokescreen, after you accused me of violating guidelines throughout this discussion in an attempt to discredit me and make me look worse off as an editor and make my opinion ever so less reliable. I have discussed what little fact you've provided. Let's discuss my facts - your arguments are the same failed arguments of last discussion. Why are they magically not good enough then, but now they are? As long as you continue accusing me of WP:OWN based on actions that WP:OWN does not mention as being violations of it, you have no right to accuse me of any attacks. Show me where "redirecting a move without any consensus" is a violation of WP:OWN. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

And looking at your reasons of instability...

1. People moving it for American bias is NOT instability. That people refuse to comply with a debate does not show the title is unstable for the reader. The fact that people who support a move would harm the article to get their way is not a ringing endorsement for you, it's an argument for complete move protection of this article. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

You have absolutely no evidence of any kind of national bias. You are only using this claim as a smokescreen for real discussion of Wikipolicy. I have provided links to multiple edits early in the articles life that were quickly reverted. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 18:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

You have no evidence that I'm violating WP:OWN, especially since nothing that I've done is listed in WP:OWN as a violation of it. Wow, some IPs opposed it early in its life? Well, let me ask you, why should I allow a move? At the time that, there was no evidence to suggest Shake It! was the better title in any capacity - only when it was released was there enough information to suggest such a thing, but by then, there was too much stability in the current title to require a move. You are obligated to show why the current title is not stable for the readers. Editors moving the article is NOT instability. It's an argument to fully protect movement of the article. That I reverted changes to the article's title at any point in the article's life is not WP:OWN, it's consistency. If people want to change it, they have to discuss it. I am not obligated to not revert major changes to the article's contents, and I have no idea where you find that I am required to. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

1. So, what you're saying is that the discussion resulted in a default to keep because of one, vocal person? Right, I bet the closing administrator completely overlooked the four other opposers, looked at me, and decided that I did better in the discussion. And no, yelling the loudest doesn't make me right - five people yelling louder than four people makes me right.

Well, I don't really care that someone who's throwing around negative, completely speculative accusations is offended by the exact same thing being thrown at them. And why does that show instability? Why won't you explain why you have no requirement to show that the current title is a bad title? Showing one title is better than another good title is not instability! It is not a reason to uproot the article! There is no confusion that warrants moving the article, and quite frankly sir, you have been throwing around insults more than anyone, accusing me of taking ownership of this article as if I haven't read every policy and guideline on this encyclopaedia, and accusing me of steamrolling the discussion to keep it here, when more people opposed the move than supported it. If it was five to four - five for support, four for oppose, and it defaulted in keep, you'd have an argument, but you didn't even have a consensus, we did! - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a ballot box. Take a second look at the result of the move discussion. No consensus was formed either way. Period. That is why the term "default" is used. I reopened the discussion hoping that people had since cooled down. I see now that is most definately not the case. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 18:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

That's not an argument to create discussions for the rest of time. It's clearly disruptive, and I have no idea why you can't just drop it and accept that the debate resulted in favor of this title. The reason that I am tired of people bringing up this discussion repeatedly, without bringing up new arguments. The discussion should be immediately closed, because the discussion is no different from the older one. If the argument of that discussion wasn't strong enough to override conflicting opinions, why should the same argument be enough to do this? You don't have the right to put a vote on this page constantly until you get your desired result, unless something has changed. It was determined that being the more well-known title of two well-known titles was not adequate last time, and it was also established that the main thing that supporters of a move had to prove was instability, and what is different about your argument from the failed argument of the first discussion? - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Your argument is the same as the previous argument. At no point should the article be moved if all you can do is provide an argument that was felt to be inadequate in the first discussion. The problem with your argument is that it fails to address the problem presented by opposers of the move - that it doesn't address stability, and doesn't explain how it's unstable. The first discussion failed to have the article moved because no one who supported it could establish instability. If you can't, then why should this discussion have a different result? - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

The following was removed from the survey section and reposted here to avoid confusion

• • That alone is not an argument to move the page. It was released mere days before in NA. How does this show instability? Instability is not "of two good titles, this one is better", instability is "if we keep it at this title, the article will be worse off". I don't see how being released days before in NA becomes harm if we focus on the PAL version of the title, and I don't see how you see any instability. And it's funny how everyone brings up the box art, but God forbid they suggest changing the box art before changing the title. Which you will probably respond with "well, people won't let us change the box art", which, for some reason, you don't say in the beginning of this discussion, since many people oppose the move as well. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:47, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
    • If you're going to make any sense at all, then drop the uncivil remarks. Every time someone disagrees with you, you seems to boil over and take it out on them. This is not how Wikipedia works, Link. You need to learn how to handle critique better. The Prince (talk) 17:53, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
      • Maybe if I didn't have to volley this discussion back and forth every other week because people burst into flames whenever an article uses the PAL title, I wouldn't get so bothered. There's no instability in this title, nothing has changed since the first discussion, so if it wasn't moved then, why should it be moved now? I'm the only one doing any critiquing here - I'm critiquing that this discussion lives on past its arguments. No matter how new the discussion is, the arguments are the same. For a supporter's arguments to be taken seriously, I won't accept anything less than an argument establishing instability as per what I describe instability (if not, an argument for instability and an argument establishing why my description of it is not proper). - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
        • Aside from the suggestion that there may be unintentional feeling of WP:OWN, I feel that my approach to this move has been more than civil. I calmly opened a RfC for the subject, as well as the proper Move proposal process, and ironicially enough was met with pretty harsh comments in both situations. (To the point of being accused of ethno-centricism). My accusations of steamrolling stem from your use of these types of ad hominem attacks to create emotional arguments vs. factual discussions. As demonstrated by The Prince, I am not the only editor who finds this behavior counterproductive to the discussion. This is the basis for the WP:OWN claim.
        • In regards to the "box art" situation. May I point you to this recent edit in which you remove an attempt to replace the NA box art with the PAL? You are so adamant about the PAL name, but then quickly return ot the NA box art when somebody attempts to correct the inconsistency. And yes, inconsistencies are determental to the overall quality of an article. How do you think I first got involved in this? I wiki'd "Wario Land: Shake It" and got a page not found message. I then got to this page and wondered "WTF?!" when I saw the title and the box-art mismatch. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 18:10, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

←Way to establish that you don't read the discussions. The box art wasn't changed because it's been the same box art for a significant period of time, and no significant reason to change it. My point is that you never once proposed changing the box art. You say that we can't have the box art changed because it's being opposed whenever anyone attempts the change, but why don't you consider that fact with the TITLE? Multiple people have opposed it throughout its life, and yet you don't think that the argument you use not to propose a change to the box art is appropriate in this case? - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:13, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

First off, "It's always been that way" is never a good enough reason to preserve the current status of an article. Plenty of articles have "always been that way" but required significant amounts of cleanup.

Second off, the argument to change the box art is a direct result of the argument to keep the current title. If the title is going to use the PAL name, than the boxart should be changed to correspond with it. See Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone as an example of how this type of consistency works.

Third off, you claim there's no confusion. I find that to be quite the opposite, considering how many editors have come in and attempted to change the title one way or another. There is very much confusion regarding this situation. I wouldn't have started this discussion if I myself hadn't gotten confused when first attempt to find the "Wario Land: Shake It!" article. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 19:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

1. Um, yes, it is. Instability is one of the most important aspects of naming conventions. Without requiring that proposers of moves to show instability, articles would be moved constantly. And to claim that this article "requires cleanup" because it uses a title you disagree with is absurd.
2. The argument to change the image resulted in the way it did solely because of the result of the discussion over the page. There was no consensus to move then, why should it change now when your argument is nothing more than what was provided in the first discussion? The fact that you never once even suggested changing the box art shows that you just want a different title, not consistency.

There is no doubt that there is an inconsistency between the article title and the image used to represent the game. One or the other is going to have to change. Since this talk page is essentially at a deadlock regarding the changing of either to match the other, I did the only thing I could think of which was to invoke the rename process. Is there a process to request image changes? I dunno. But the rename process seemed more natural given what I saw as the supporting evidnce. Part of the beauty of WP discussions though is that one suggested resolution can spawn a new one. So if the result of the suggested page move is to instead simply change the incorrect pic, then by all means let's do that. It would likely be far easier from a technical standpoint and would likely also be far less work to clean up after from an editing stand point. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 20:02, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

These are two discussions that resulted in The Shake Dimension as the title and Shake It! as the box art. You can't require editors go against the consensus just because you don't think it's right. The fact is that you didn't even consider proposing an image change, which is clearly an option available. In fact, since an image change is the best idea to fix the consistency, I don't see why you didn't propose it. The evidence isn't substantial - it's Google hits and a first release. It doesn't matter if you honestly believe that these are adequate, they don't do well enough to establish instability in the current title. Consensus can change, yes, but that's not a statement that you should present the same argument over and over until you get lucky and finally win. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

1. Fine, there's confusion. Not enough confusion to be the sole reason to move an article. Google hits are only used as anecdotal evidence in support a stronger argument, not your main argument, which is what I see here. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Can't find it

I've been unable to find a copy of this game ANYWHERE in the US! Best Buy, Target, GameStop...nothing! Am I looking elsewhere wrong? They just say they don't have Wario Land: The Shake Dimension! 96.42.112.152 (talk) 19:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Trying asking for Wario Land: Shake It! Because thats the name of the game. Bryan.Wade (talk) 01:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

...then why is this article entitled "The Shake Dimension" then? 64.83.224.71 (talk) 23:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Bryan's statement is misleading; both titles are real. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 23:44, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Because A Link to the Past is insanely pushy and demands that the article be named this. --VmKid (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Uh, yeah. Apparently, when the title was originally this, it's pushy to RESIST people pushing for a title change. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 00:29, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Shake It! vs. Shake Dimension

This is the American wiki. Therefore this game should be listed under its American title. There are so many instances where things on this site are forced to be in English (namely anime/manga names and terms), so how has this been sliding for this long? It's just absolutely ridiculous. Buh6173 (talk) 16:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

There is no such thing as an American Wikipedia. This is the English Wikipedia. Explain to me what language the United Kingdom speaks. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

It's still primarily English over PAL. I can understand an argument to have "Shake Dimension" as the listed title, but actually implementing it like that is ridiculous. Buh6173 (talk) 05:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Stop using English like it's an American thing, it's not. Shake Dimension is equally legitimate to Shake It. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:01, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Keep it at The Shake Dimension, the game has been released under that name in multiple English-speaking regions. AliceSKD (talk) 06:09, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

The issue I have with this article is the statement "As of December 2008, Wario Land: The Shake Dimension sold about 150,000 copies in the United States." That is a incorrect, ZERO copies of "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension" have been sold in the US, however 150,000 copies of Wario Land: Shake it! have. BUT, I fear that if I attempt to put the correct info, ALTTP (or whatever name he uses now) will revert it to the incorrect statement above.Oldschoolgod (talk) 23:46, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

They are the same game. We use one name to refer to it in a worldwide sense. How do we say "Such and such game sold so and so amount of copies worldwide"? By your argument, that line cannot possibly exist, and would require us to write it in a pointlessly convoluted and confusing fashion. The fact of the matter is that the article uses The Shake Dimension in every fashion. Changing it in such a way accomplishes nothing but making the use of the title inconsistent. If you have an issue with this standard way of displaying information, take it up with WT:VG, and if you succeed, we will have to modify hundreds of video game articles which use different titles. For all Japanese sales of a game, for example, we would be required to use the Japanese title. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, if we had the information for the French version of a game, and the French version had a different title, we would have to call it by the French name when referencing those sales. Seems like a giant hurdle to change something just because you prefer one name to another. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:25, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

The point is that the title as listed does not reflect the name of the game that sold 150,000 copies in the US. If someone reads that "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension" sold X copies and then clicks on the reference and sees NO mention of "The Shake Dimension," instead sees Wario Land: Shake It! could that not cause confusion? Regardless of the fact that YOU know that it's the same game, the vast majority of people do not, hence causing confusion. To minimize confusion, could we at least add "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension (as "Wario Land: Shake It!) sold 150,000 copies?" But, this is your article, and you'll do with it as you please, regardless of the confusion it could cause to the average citizen. Oldschoolgod (talk) 16:07, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

title fixes reverted?

Why were my title fixes reverted? I was just changing the title to the one that was more common. I've never even heard of "the shake dimension", and neither did anybody at the store when I asked for it. Shouldn't the title reflect the one that is more commonly used? Or is there some wikipedia policy that says that the more used, better title shouldn't be used? Shouldn't we be trying the make the articles as good as possible? 50.54.215.70 (talk) 21:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry; I should have explained it better in my edit summary. The title is "The Shake Dimension" in Europe, so it's understandable that they would not know of it. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)