Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

WikiProject Baseball
Main project page + talk Special projects talk Resource Library talk Article Improvement Drive talk Requested articles and todo talk  → Articles needing attention talk  → Cleanup listing talk  → Nominations for deletion talk  → Article alerts talk Article assessment (Log) talk  → Featured articles (62) talk  → Featured lists (211) talk  → Good articles (557) talk Outreach talk  → Newsletter talk Portal talk Notability guidelines talk Style advice talk  → Naming conventions talk  → Player style advice talk  → Season article format talk Handling transactions talk Popular pages talk Active editors
Project organization Participants talk Large userbox talk Project userbox talk Project banner talk Project category talk
Major League Baseball Team specific Atlanta Braves talk Boston Red Sox talk Chicago Cubs talk Cincinnati Reds talk Los Angeles Angels talk Los Angeles Dodgers talk Minnesota Twins talk New York Mets talk New York Yankees talk Philadelphia Phillies talk San Diego Padres talk Seattle Mariners talk St. Louis Cardinals talk
General Subprojects Players talk College baseball talk Leagues and teams talk Little League talk Old-time Base Ball talk Negro league baseball talk Hall of Fame talk Umpires talk
Geographical Australia talk Japan talk Korea talk Taiwan talk
view · edit · changes

Player Archives
1 2 3

Need input from WP:BASE members

Would you guys kindly provide your input on this issue?

Wikipedia talk:Categorization#Category:Minor league baseball players

Jockbio.com

I'm guessing that the answer to this question is no, but is http://www.jockbio.com/ a relieable source? Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 18:30, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Nope. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 23:47, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Care to elaborate? They seem to have a list of respectable writers whose work has appeared in well-known publications. They have published a number of books, which are generally considered valid sources for Wikipedia citations, right? Fnordware (talk) 19:21, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Would it be appropriate to use it as an external link? Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 17:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

An EL is probably fine. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:19, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Tim Lincecum GA reassessment

Tim Lincecum has been nominated for reassessment here if anyone is interested. AIRcorn (talk) 02:31, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Most of us should be interested. It should've been mentioned here by the nominator. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:20, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Left a comment; if nom notes further issues I can take a stab at them. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:33, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Help....

I really want to cut down List of top 500 Major League Baseball home run hitters to top 300 at a minimum, but discussion on that talk page is lacking. Any thoughts? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:30, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

There's been plenty of talk, and I am not sure there is much left to say. I only saw one objection to cutting down to at least the top 300 (since the top 300 is pretty much synonymous with all players with 200 or more right now). Wizardman already seems to have snipped it, but didn't change the name (which I will do unless it's done before I get back there). I still think this should be cut further, but maybe this is good enough for the time being. Rlendog (talk) 18:58, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Mostly per what you said (things keep stalling), I trimmed to 300. If another discussion about moving to 100 feels warranted then you can go ahead, but this should be good enough. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you both. I was wanting to do it myself, but didn't want to be charged with anything improper. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:10, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Cincinnati Reds

Every so often there's an edit skirmish in that article, caused by history-challenged fans posting 1869 as the club's origin, instead of 1882 which is what it actually is. Today they even went so far as to claim that we're "anti-Reds", which is silly. Some more eyes on that page would be helpful. Thank you! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:05, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Okey dokey. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:07, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

One thing they did today was to revert "the current franchise" back to "the current iteration of the franchise", which sounds weaselly. There have been several distinct Cincinnati franchises. The current one is not an "iteration" of anything. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:10, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Sample outline of player article

As part of the work-in-progress style guidelines, I have drawn up an outline for a player article: Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Player style guidelines, based on the player articles that have reached Featured Article status, and a handful of other player articles I examined. Feedback is welcome (for simplicity, I suggest keeping any discussion on this page). isaacl (talk) 04:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

First and foremost, as an encyclopedia article, I believe that the first sentence in the introductory paragraph should state succinctly that the subject was/is a "professional baseball player". What league and what position they played is secondary and can be expounded upon in the following sentences (He played in the Japanese Baseball League as a second baseman for the Tokyo Giants from 1942 to 1951). Also, as per the Manual of Style for Bios for opening paragraphs, his nationality should be mentioned so, in my example it would read; So and so was a Japanese professional baseball player.Orsoni (talk) 05:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I also believe that season home run crowns and batting championships are "career highlights" and should be listed in the info box. As of now, those titles haven't been allowed in the infobox for some reason. For example, Tony Gwynn won eight batting championships, yet that information isn't available in the infobox, whose purpose is to give a quick overview of the subject.Orsoni (talk) 05:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this should be the format. The leagues a player played in (be they in Japan, Korea, US or elsewhere) are secondary to their defining status as a professional baseball player. Thanks for brining this up, I have been working to standardize article introductions for awhile.--TM 16:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure that you need a separate career highlights section at the bottom.. all that stuff should be listed in the info box... do we need to list it again in a chart at the bottom? Spanneraol (talk) 17:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd say it depends on the volume involved. It should be an optional section for players who have a lengthy list of awards received. -Dewelar (talk) 17:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

There is no need for a new section as the last section of the current infobox is already titled "Career highlights and awards" however, home run and batting crowns have been excluded. In my opinion, a batting crown is much more notable than a Hutch Award.Orsoni (talk) 18:40, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, because the articles I consulted were for high-achieving players, they have extensive lists of achievements that go beyond what is typically found in an infobox. This section (and others too) would not be mandatory; this is just an outline of the information that can be included. I was not intending the guideline to be strictly prescriptive regarding the format of the first sentence (I believe flexibility should be allowed in order to accommodate the wide spectrum of players from rookies to veterans), but the sample sentence can be broken up into two. isaacl (talk) 18:48, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Career highlights in infobox

Would someone like to draw up a proposal for guidance on the career highlights section in the infobox? I'm not familiar with the previous discussion threads on this topic, so it would be nice if someone who is familiar with previous consensus could provide a starting point. You can suggest it here (perhaps in list form), or within the "Infobox" subsection under the "Guidelines" section on the player article style guidelines page. isaacl (talk) 19:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Looking at that page a bit more, I should note that in the Teams section, we also include NPB teams. I have also seen KBO and CPBL teams listed here, but not universally (perhaps because there is no easy resource to find that information as there is for Japan). Given the recent discussion on notability, it's possible we should also be including teams from the Mexican League, Serie A1 and Honkbal Hoofdklasse. -Dewelar (talk) 19:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

For career highlights, I would suggest; All-Star game appearances, MVP or Cy Young Awards, World Series or playoff MVP Awards, Rookie of the Year Awards, season home run crowns, season batting championships, season RBI championships, Gold Glove Awards, Silver Slugger Awards. I don't see other awards such as the Hutch Award or Babe Ruth Award as being important enough to be in the info box and, these can perhaps be entered into the infoboxes that normally appear at the bottom of the page.Orsoni (talk) 05:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Help with 2011 Major League Baseball Draft

A user is trying to add the entire results (all 50 rounds) of the 2011 Major League Baseball Draft at this page, despite my insistence that this is excessive and that our consensus is to list the first round (including supplemental) only. This user is unwilling to engage in discussion, merely reverting my restoration of the consensus version of this page. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:05, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Left a comment. If all 50 rounds were added in the article would probably be ~300kb, so yeah, overkill. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I've started a thread at the Administrator's noticeboard regarding User:Carthage44, who is not editing in good faith. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:42, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Texas Rangers ownership

The CEO for the Rangers changed this year, and as a result the MLB owners had to vote to accept Nolan Ryan as the team representative for MLB ownership. After some vandalism was fixed, Euclidjr corrected the information, then added the tag '(Nolan Ryan, designated Controlling Owner by MLB)' to the ownership info. Although Ryan was voted and approved by MLB, he was not selected by the MLB owners, but by the Rangers and I believe the information added may be confusing, especially given the turmoil the team was in financially during the 2009 and 2010 season, and with the current problems the Dodgers are going through. Thank you,Red3biggs (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

To be clear, the designation is not mine - it was directly from an article from the MLB website. In the absence of a clarifying authority, it's hard to call it inaccurate. The prior ownership info (in the info box) said simply Nolan Ryan - which is not true. He is not -the- owner, or a majority owner, or one of a known set of owners of the LLC that actually owns the Rangers. If he is going to be listed at all in the owner's box, it should be with the caveat that he is the controlling owner, or as part of an exhaustive list of owners (which may not be public information). Euclidjr (talk) 02:35, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

From what I understand, Ryan is replacing Greenberg as the managing partner, and MLB's approval is just a pro forma acknowledgement that Ryan now represents the Rangers for all MLB matters. (For its convenience, MLB requires clubs owned by partnerships to designate a single managing partner to act on behalf of the team.) Note that Ryan was listed as an owner in the August 2010 purchase. isaacl (talk) 06:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Notability of collegiate baseball all-americans

Do you think being named an All-American in collegiate baseball passes the standard of Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#College athletes which states a biography is notable if they have "gained national media attention as an individual, not just as a player for a notable team"?--TM 01:48, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

My interpretation would be no. One of the three potential issues for college athletes is described as Have won a national award (such as those listed in Template:College Football Awards. All-American status, which is big in college football, is not one of those awards listed (while Academic All-American is). I would say that simply being named "All-American" does not get you the assumption of notability. If that player does have reliable sources writing articles about that particular player (not just simply ending up on lists of top prospects or the such), then I would say he meets notability. At the end of the day WP:GNG still needs to be satisfied ... the collegiate notability criteria are there to grant an assumption of notability to prevent premature deletion. My two bits.LonelyBeacon (talk) 02:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Northern League CfD

For lack of another place to inform project members, I have proposed a rename and merger for categories related to the defunct Northern League (baseball), here. Resolute 14:18, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Now that the league has folded, the article itself needs to be moved to Northern League (baseball, 1993–2010) to differentiate it from Northern League (baseball, 1902–71). I will see what I can do about that once I have some time (unless someone beats me to it). -Dewelar (talk) 15:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

That depends, one could still technically be the primary article could it not? Thus one still at (baseball) and the other with the years. Doesn't matter to me how its handled, but I know many other topic areas do it that way. (no not hockey :P) But I am not sure if the most recent league would be the primary target or not. -DJSasso (talk) 15:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe the concept of primary articles applies to articles that are already being disambiguated. However, if it does, if either Northern League should be primary, the older affiliated league would be more notable, and thus more worthy of being primary, than the present-day independent league. To do otherwise would be blatant recentism. -Dewelar (talk) 17:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Not sure recentism applies because primary topic isn't supposed to be most important topic but most likely to be searched topic....that being said I am good with whatever renaming y'all think is best, just mostly think the cats need merging. :) -DJSasso (talk) 17:34, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. I do expect that, after a few years pass, the independent version will be less-searched than the older and more prominent version (although, admittedly, given that the older one is actually 4 or 5 different leagues, that one needs to be split up someday, too), but perhaps that's wishcasting :) . -Dewelar (talk) 18:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Northern League Ballparks

Template:Northern League Ballparks has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. -Dewelar (talk) 17:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

hit by pitch rule 6.08

if you are hit by a pitch, outside of the strike zone and you try to avoid it, can you refuse to be awarded first and continue the at bat? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.62.234 (talk) 19:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

An interesting question, but I looked at the 6.08 (b), and several interpretations, and it appears that the batter can refuse the "entitlement" of first base. Although in 6.08 (a), the base-on-balls is an entitlement, but the rule specifically states that batter MUST proceed to first base; while (b) does not specifically state that. Although I can't immediately think of a reason why one would refuse.Neonblak ^talk - 16:32, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

He can't refuse it, and he'll be called out unless he can convince the umpire that he was not trying to get out of the way of the pitch. If the batter makes no attempt to get out of the way, i.e. if he lets the ball hit him, he's not entitled to take the base. He might let it hit him if he thinks the pitcher doesn't want to let him hit the ball. I've never heard of a batter doing that deliberately. Note that the introductory part of rule 6.08 says "The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when - etc. Meanwhile, rule 6.04 states, "A batter has legally completed his time at bat when he is put out or becomes a runner." This, plus 6.08, indicates that once hit by a pitch, he's no longer a batter. If a batter-runner refuses to go to first base, that would essentially bring the game to a dead stop. I can't find the rule just now, but if someone interferes with the progress of the game, I'm sure the ump would call him "out" and/or eject him from the game. And if the entire team refuses to continue play, they would forfeit. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:52, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

• This does seem like an unlikely scenario. Outside of a situation like 2001-04 Barry Bonds dropped onto like... The Pittsburgh Pirates... It's hard to picture when someone would fight that hard to bat rather than get a free base. Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Pitch animations

Hey all, I've started making animated diagrams to explain the difference between pitch types, since I felt the pitch-specific pages could really use a visual accompaniment. Feel free to leave your input and request any new pitch animations, and add these to any page you think could benefit from them AtomicRED (talk) 03:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC):

• 
  4-seam Fastball
• 
  Cutter
• 
  Curveball

Very cool. I can't wait to see the knuckleball animation.Orsoni (talk) 07:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Nice. I'm thinking that as a minor suggestion from someone who lives in a metrified (?) country, the speed gun reading should at least be shown as "mph", if not also having the speed in "kph". And I'm fairly certain that Looney Tunes already has a good animation of Bugs Bunny throwing a beauty of a knuckleball. Might be copyright issues with that though, I suppose.  Afaber012  (talk)  07:48, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Sparky at Comerica

The "brick wall" at Detroit Tigers needs "11 Anderson" added. TomCat4680 (talk) 22:01, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

All-Stars

This is an issue I brought up in the past. There is an editor who finds it necessary to convert "All-Star" to "All-Star Selection" in every former All-Star's infobox. There was a consensus the last time I brought this up that "All-Star" was more appropriate (I didn't archive the debate). Has there since been a new consensus that I am unaware of?

For the record, I'd like to put it out there that I prefer "All-Star" for many reasons:

1) I've never seen another site anywhere ever use the term "All-Star Selection." Everyone else just says "All-Star."

2) It would be more consistent with Wikipedia NBA & NFL articles as NBA players are simply referred to as "All Stars" and NFL players are simply referred to as "All Pro."

3) "All-Star Selection" is unnecessarily wordy.

3) It is technically inaccurate if the player was elected to the team.

...However, if I am wrong, let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.3.45.113 (talk) 10:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

2 is incorrect. The NFL infoboxes do say selection.--Yankees10 16:03, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

We should go with whatever the normal sources say, not what some editor thinks is politically correct or something (unless it matches the sources). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:40, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

When someone notes this fact about a player, they say he's an All-Star. As such, that's all that needs to be written, as selection is superfluous. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree that adding "selection" is a bit pedantic but, not technically incorrect as, All-Star reserve players are "selected" by the All-Star team manager. Starting players are voted in.Orsoni (talk) 18:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

As I originally mention, this debate has been had before (March 2011). Yankees10 seems to think that his opinion is the only one that matters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.3.45.113 (talk) 20:33, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

And where have I stated that only my opinion matters?--Yankees10 20:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The IP has a grand total of 4 edits... and it's not a question of "opinion" but of verifiable usage. The All-Stars are partly "elected" and partly "selected". But an All-Star is an All-Star. The only place where it needs to be brought up is when listing a given year's squad and how the players came to be on it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The all-stars are selected.. either by a vote or by the manager... it's just a differing manner of selection.. so both ways are correct... I really dont have a preference here. Spanneraol (talk) 23:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

• Absolutely just "All-Star". Either you say selection refers to some subclass of All-Stars (which I've never heard of), and we need some serious sourcing. Else it refers to all All-Stars and is just a random, meaningless term thrown on the end. They're also all humans but we don't say Human All-Star selection. Staxringold _talk^contribs 00:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

In the infobox, just "All-Star". I'd only make the distinction between "All-Star" and "All-Star selection" if a player was selected for a game but did not actually play after either declining or being unavailable due to injury, etc, and even then only in prose, not in a summary table like the infobox. The fact that the player was selected - through one method or another - has to be automatically assumed.  Afaber012  (talk)  00:22, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Yankees10, the reason I say that your opinion is the only one that matters to you is because this exact debate took place three months ago. You behaved yourself for a little while, but you have recently made edits where you have done little more than add the word "Selection" in the player's infobox. Afaber012 makes an interesting point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.3.45.113 (talk) 02:34, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

As I mentioned in the previous discussion, for conciseness, I favour "All-Star" over other forms. isaacl (talk) 21:22, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Per previous discussion (which is, for those looking for it here), I feel that adding the word "selection" is, under most circumstances, entirely superfluous. Perhaps Yankees10 is afflicted with a bad case of editcountitis. -Dewelar (talk) 23:40, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah dude, thats totally it...--Yankees10 23:44, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the superfluousness of it, though I'm not sure there is an illness associated with it. I also happen to think it makes Wikipedia look a little silly. No one else uses that term; why would Wikipedia?

Naming discussion: Québec Capitales → Les Capitales de Québec

Readers of this page may be interested in contributing to the discussion at Talk:Québec Capitales#Requested move. Cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 18:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

List of Atlanta Braves Seasons needs some fixing/cleaning up

The totals section is very confusing as the totals for each location are listed at the bottom. There are 3 different totals listed before you get to the final total, which then includes the 5 seasons in which they played in the National Association the totals for which were not listed before. On top of that the Totals with playoffs actually are inexplicably less than the ones without.

In my opinion main total wins should not include the seasons they played in the NA, though there should be a franchise totals including those numbers. I don't know how y'all have gone about addressing other teams that started outside of the American or National League, but I think it would be best to separate those records from those in the MLB, to avoid subtraction when trying to find out MLB totals (users shouldn't need to check how many games/losses/wins a team had in another league then subtract those from the overall franchise record when trying to find the MLB totals).

A lot of the pages follow similar formats, I personally like the way the Orioles list is set up (Arizona and the Cubs have a similar set up too), which is very clean and simple. Also the reference link links you to the sites homepage, not to the list of the Atlanta Braves Season by Season results. Its also an obscure website, while most other teams list baseball-reference.com, which is a terrific site for stats, in addition to the list of seasons it provides totals for each incarnation of the Braves (it breaks down their time in Boston by name instead of just listing it as time spent in Boston).

Here's the baseball-reference.com link for the Atlanta Braves

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iceman87GT (talk • contribs) 20:18, 3 July 2011 (UTC)