Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language
| |||||||||
How to ask a question
| |||||||||
|
| ||||||||
After reading the above, you may
. Your question will be added at the bottom of the page. | |||||||||
How to answer a question
|
|
See also Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language/FAQs for answers to frequently asked language and usage questions.
March 9
German translation please
Sorry to ask this, but could someone please translate the following German: "Das lied heißst tätsachlisch 'porompompom' und ist IMHO ein traditional aus mittel-bzw. Südamerika. Das teil wurde von hunderten interpreten aufgenommen. Am besten du suchst mal im shop deiner walh in der folk/sudamerika-ecke." KeeganB
- Why apologise? This is a lingo ref desk - if you can't ask this question here, where else? Anyway, here goes: "That song is indeed called 'porompompom' and is IMHO a traditional from Central or South America. That part was recorded by hundreds of performers. You'd best have a look in the shop of your choice in the folk/South-America corner." DirkvdM 08:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Replace “that part” (which would be “der Teil”) with “it”. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikipeditor (talk • contribs) 11:02, March 9, 2006 (UTC).
- I would say 'Der teil' means 'the piece'.
Slumgum 11:02, 9 March 2006 (UTC)- "Teil" does indeed literally mean "piece", but in colloquial German (which this was blatantly written in), it can be used to substitute most nouns, usually one referenced previously. Here, I think replacing it with "it" (as suggested above) or "the song" is most appropriate, IMO. — QuantumEleven | (talk) 18:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Blatantly"? JackofOz 20:24, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Of course, my German's not perfect, but I would say 'piece' is most apt, particularly when speaking about a classical or traditional 'musical piece'... "The piece was recorded by hundreds of performers."
IMO
Slumgum- I don't think Teil has that meaning in German- they would use Stück. Markyour words 01:19, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Of course, my German's not perfect, but I would say 'piece' is most apt, particularly when speaking about a classical or traditional 'musical piece'... "The piece was recorded by hundreds of performers."
- "Blatantly"? JackofOz 20:24, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Teil" does indeed literally mean "piece", but in colloquial German (which this was blatantly written in), it can be used to substitute most nouns, usually one referenced previously. Here, I think replacing it with "it" (as suggested above) or "the song" is most appropriate, IMO. — QuantumEleven | (talk) 18:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Precisely. I found it a bit strange, so I stuck to a literal translation. I can only interpret it as being about a part of a song. DirkvdM 10:44, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- A quick comment from a native speaker: "Teil" basically means "thing" in informal speech, so translating it with "it" is pretty much spot-on. "Piece" (in the sense of a piece of music) would indeed be "Stück". To confuse things further, note the distinction between "Das Teil" (some thing which is not specified further) and "Der Teil" (a part of a whole) -- Ferkelparade π 11:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Precisely. I found it a bit strange, so I stuck to a literal translation. I can only interpret it as being about a part of a song. DirkvdM 10:44, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Even more colloquial is "Dings". I've only heard it be used by teenagers, actually. Igor the Lion(Roar!) 13:34, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I agree to the colloquialism interpretation: "Das Teil" = "That stuff/thingy" Azate 00:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
a short class-room speech
Please help to edit or write something on the below headings for my project. (1) i wish i could celebrate.... (2) the day i turn sweet 16 and the day i turn 21. How do the relate to valentine in terms of my nerdy valentine and a velentine date from hell. If asked to say something on 'will you be my valentine?' what should be written about? Same as 'nerdy valentine' and 'a valentine date from hell'. i try to find a website but couldn't find one. kindly help me. thank you.
- Please do your own homework.
- Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. —Keenan Pepper 21:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- I will add just a little. This isn't a quiz; there isn't a right answer. Your teacher expects you to be creative, to write about what you know, and what you feel, not to copy someone else's idea. How do you feel about valentines? Angry, excited, embarrassed, puzzled by what all the fuss is about? Whichever one it is, you have a starting point for expressing yourself on the subject. Notinasnaid 12:10, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Might I suggest that you rewrite the lyrics to "My Funny Valentine" as "My Nerdy Valentine" ? You could include lines like "While you may not be able to lift a car, I love you the most, by far". StuRat 19:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Also note that if there is any possibility that these people can be identified, then you need their permission before you write about them, or they might get quite angry at you. StuRat 19:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
The history of the verb "used"
Hi I was wondering if any clever person out there knows what the history of the verb use/used (or more relevant to my dissertation used to)is? or where i could find such a thing out.I have traced its use back as far as the middle English period but am stumped as to how or if it was used in the old English period. If it wasn't used in Old English did thay have an equivalent? If so what was it? ANY information on this matter would be thankfully and gratefully recieved at this time. Thanks in advance Liz --Soue79 10:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Because the "use"-root can also be found in romance languages (French "user" "usager" "usiner", Italian "uso", "utente", Spanish "usuario"), my guess is that it first appeared in Middle English after the Norman Conquest of England. For an Old English equivalent, you'll have to wait until a real linguist reads this page. David Sneek 11:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, "use" is from Latin. It replaced the Old English "brucan" as the word for "use" (compare modern Swedish "bruka"). Another OE word for "use" or "apply" is "befæstan" (compare mod. Swe. "befästa"). --BluePlatypus 12:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Brucan"! I suspected it would be something like that, thinking of Dutch "gebruik", "bruikbaar" &c. and German "Brauch". David Sneek 13:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Broken" in English, of course. Note that something can be used but not broken; if broken, it must have been used in some way, but not necessarily (maybe it was broken while being made). --Halcatalyst 03:43, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Brucan"! I suspected it would be something like that, thinking of Dutch "gebruik", "bruikbaar" &c. and German "Brauch". David Sneek 13:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- But you're talking about used to. Not sure quite what you mean. Which example is appropriate? both?
- I used to like skiing.
- I am used to skiing.
- The only other language I know well is French. As far as I know, they would never use the verb user in either way. --Halcatalyst 03:50, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Liz here again. Thank you so much for that information very useful. I mean "used to" in the first sense ie. an action that has now passed but was once habitual. (I think it is an adjectival use in the second sense you mention.Would that be right? )I wonder if you also know whether or not "used to" is a marginal modal when forming an interrogative or negative with "do" (e.g Didn't you used to like skiing? I didn't used to like skiing )Or as the Oxford English Grammar seems to think that when being used with do it is a main verb. I am confused as this is the only source that has this opinion. My interest in this particular matter has to do with the fact that if as the Oxford English Grammar states that it is a main verb when being used with do then "used to" is the only past tense form of a verb that can follow dummy do. Or at least it's the only past tense form i can think of that can follow "do / did/ don't /does ". If anyone can think of another one that would be great i'v been racking my Brains for months. I think there is an acceptable one in American English "I don't got it" (If this is acceptable i'm not sure)
- Liz, I don't know enough to follow all you say here, but one thing I think I do know is that some of your examples are incorrect. For example, I think one says 'Didn't you use to like skiing?' rather than 'used', just as you would say 'Didn't you use a dictionary', not 'used'. I'm not sure if this helps with your main questions though. Maid Marion 10:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Maid Marion. Yes it does sound rather odd doesn't it. "I didn't used to play football" is perhaps a better example of what i'm driving at. "I used a dictionary" has an entirely different meaning ie. i utilised the dictionary.(The pronnunciation is also different compare uSed to and uZed to) I am looking at "used to" as something that occurred habitually in the past. e.g Did you used to play football No I didn't used to play football. The spelling is another matter entirely although many sources say the "d" should be omitted when forming questions and negative sentences, there are some that think the "d" should be left. I think this boils down to the phonology because of the "t" in "to" follows the final "d" in "used" it doesn't get pronnounced.A bit like when "have" is followed by "to" it becomes something like "haf to" so "used to" becomes (in this sense at least)always pronnounced use to thus also affecting the spelling. I hope that helps you understand what I mean. I'm not the best at explaing things. Thanks again for your comments.
- This is where conventional grammar helps. When we use "used to" as an auxiliary verb, do we say "I used to polish my car" or "I used to polished my car"? Answer, the first one; i.e., the verb "polish" appears in the standard infinitive form and is not conjugated in the past tense; the auxiliary "used to" provides the past tense. Your example is more complex because its auxiliary verb is "did use," not just do/did and not only use/used. But the same rule applies. The verb "did" provides the past tense and the verb "use" should be in the standard infinitive form, not conjugated in the past tense. —Wayward Talk 10:16, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry Liz, I'm obviously not making myself clear. What I was trying to say is that the verb in using a dictionary and being used to skiing is exactly the same verb, and its inflections are exactly the same. The fact that it has evolved two rather different senses makes no difference to this, nor does the fact that we sometimes pronounce uSe, sometimes uZe. What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, the sentence 'I didn't used to ski' or 'Did you used to play football?' is just wrong, and the only reason anyone writes that way is because of confusion between the past tense in 'I used to ski' (negative: 'I didn't use to ski') and the adjectival use of the participle in 'I am used to skiing'. Maid Marion 13:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Halcatalyst. I have just read what you said about the French not using the verb in either of the senses you mention. This is interesting because it is similar in Welsh. In Welsh for "i used to live in that house" you would say something like " I was living in that house....(at one time/once)". The past continuous is used instaed. Do you know what the equivalents are in French. Or does anyone have any examples from other languages? The past continuous doesn't seem to convey the same sort of meaning. Are there any foreign language learners that have had problems understanding the English verb "used to"?
Fowler (Modern English Usage) has something to say about this: As an intransitive verb, meaning "be wont to", use is now confined to the past tense. We may say "He used to live in London", but not, as we might once have done, "He uses to live in London". The proper negative form is therefore "he used not to" (or, colloquially, "he usedn't to"); but "he didn't use to" should be regarded as an archaism rather than the vulgarism, like "He didn't ought to", it is generally thought to be in England.
If I can interpret this, since "used" is used only in the past tense, the question "Did you use to play football?", while firmly established colloquially, would generally be considered ungrammatical. It would need to be something like "Used you to play football?" (yeah, right), or "Is it the case that you used to play football?", or expressed a different way, eg. "Did you ever play football?". The "correct" options for the "didn't you" type of question are even more limited: "Isn't it the case that you used to play football?", or (with a different nuance) "You used to play football, didn't you?". However, "Didn't you use to play football" wins hands down in the colloquial speech stakes. Nobody quibbles when somebody says that, it's only when we come to write these words down that they look not quite right. JackofOz 21:38, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Traditionally, as Fowler says, "Did you use to" is regarded as a bad error, and, in Britain at least, very socially marked. It is a modal verb (like can, must) so the question form is "Used you to live in London?" Same with the negative "I used not". No auxiliary (did, have, etc) ever when you conjugate modal verbs. (The same applies for "ought to" - no did/didn't).
Many European languages use the imperfect tense for this idea, but in English that died out, so we have this weird phrase. Spanish has a near-equivalent "suelo (present)/"solía (past), but it's regular and they dont say it as much anyway because they can use the imperfect to convey the same idea.
- As for "I am not used to driving on the right", "used to" is not a verb (the verb is "am" only) and it is interchangeable with "accustomed to". The "to" is a preposition (so followed by -ing) not part of the infinitive. Jameswilson 00:35, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- Jack, the French would say je vivais en France to indicate I was living in France, j'ai vécu en France to mean I lived in France. Again, I can't think of a way to say, "I used to live in France." I believe one might rather use some phrase like "recently" or "formerly" or something like that. Il y a longtemps j'ai vécu en France. Long ago I lived in France.
- Liz, you have yourself a very interesting question.
- About whether it's "use to" or "used to" -- this is only about spelling, and you can make your class distinctions about that all day long. Go back a couple of hundred years and it's not an issue. --Halcatalyst 01:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- "je vivais" (Spanish "vivía") is what I was getting at when I mentioned the use of the imperfect. In our terms, it can do double duty "I used to live" AND "I was living". I'm 99% sure that used to be true LOL in English too. If you need to emphasise it you would, as you say, put in another word, ("antes, vivía en Londres" in Spanish, for example), ie "Before/previously, I lived in London but now I live in Scotland"). But unless you need emphasis, the choice of tense is enough to convey that. So the default translation of "I used to live" is simply "je vivais".
Jameswilson 02:19, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not as well-read or linguistically knowledgeable as these scholars (though hopefully someday...), but I would like to add my 2¢. You are correct, Liz, that it is an adjectival use in the second sentence, as JamesWilson pointed out. As far as American English is concerned, "I don't got it" is not acceptable. "I don't get it" meaning "I don't understand it" is accepted, as is "I haven't got it" or "I don't have it," both of which mean "It is not in my possession." There was a Clint Black song (showing my roots, but oh well) called "What I use to be," and I have always felt that was an error. It should be "What I used to be." But that is parallel to the discussion, rather than actually answering any questions. Looking closely at your example of "I didn't used to play football," I think that we (from the US) might not notice or we might consider it a sort of redneckism, like Jeff Foxworthy's "usedtacould": "Can you dance?" "No, but I usedtacould." I think if we did notice it, we would prefer one of JackofOz's alternatives. But in "Didn't you used to play football?" would be much preferred over "Didn't you use to play football?" I think I'm with Oxford on this one, that "used to" is a marginal modal which always keeps the same form regardless of its context, even if some people (like Clint Black) don't pronounce it or even spell it that way. No, I think I've got it backward. I've talked myself into a tangle, and probably fallen in the error Maid Marion mentioned. As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman, "If you get yourself tangled up, just tango on." So I'll tango on out of here and leave this to the experts, though I may dip my feet in the water some other time, if no one minds. :) Probably on a less complicated question, though, or one I understand better. I thought I had this one figured out (at least what I thought I knew about it, in US usage), but I see now I don't have it. Well, anyway, best of luck to you, Liz. --Cromwellt|Talk 03:43, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Liz again Thanks all you guys for your really helpful input. It has helped me to figure out what the general thinking on this subject is. I would just like to ask Wayward how sure you are about the infinitive rule applying to "used to"?I mean i know it applies to every other verb but this modal just seems to be behaving differently and it always occurs in the past tense.
I also just have to say to Maid Marion you sound like you are a prescriptivist. Yes ok the examples were PERHAPS incorrectly spelt but i had to spell them that way to convey my message. The fact also remains that from the studies i have carried out and looking at the Bank of English data....the majority of people now say "didn't used to" and "did you used to". I am not so concerned with what people SHOULD say but rather what they DO say. This way language change can be documented and questions can be asked. I also think you'll find that "using a dictionary" and "being used to something" are not exactly the same and i would even put money on the fact that the two have different etymyologies. "Be/get used to something" is something different entirely.What i am using in my "incorrect" examples is the marginal modal "used to" which ALWAYS occurs in the past tense. This is why i wanted to know: If "used to" occurs in a sentence with "do" does "used to" then become a main verb. The answer to this would then explain the spelling inconsistencies. You said my examples were incorrect, I hope i have now helped you to understand how they were not incorrect and made my purpose a bit clearer to you. But thanks anyway for your input.
Just on a final note as Halcatalystand jameswilson say the social/class implications of this are clear. I just love that word "redneckism" Cromwellt, great stuff. Its also interesting what you say about "didn't used to" being preferred over "didn't use to". (maybe it is towards America we have to look for seemingly newfound acceptability of this construction). Is i didn't got to really not acceptable American? Can you not say something like "you don't got to (gotta) jump if you dont want". I mean i know it wouldn't be acceptable in written American but i was under the impression that the majority of Americans would say constructions like the above example. Is it maybe a dialectal thing a redneckism as you say, although this sounds more Brooklyn to me. But i admit this judgement is made purely from the amount of American films i have seen and not from any first hand experience. Anyway Thanks again all you guys. Very Helpful. Liz
- Hi again Liz. I'm not trying to be prescriptive, I just thought you were misunderstanding something and was trying to help identify for you where you were going wrong. (And I'm not saying that I'm right, and you're wrong - it may be the other way round or we may both be wrong - but at least if I outline my understanding of the matter it may help wiser people, yourself included I'm sure, to get to the truth.) So to say again, in a slightly different way, what I was trying to say before: I don't think people say 'I didn't used to play football'. What I think they say is a collection of sounds something like 'I didn't youssto play'. The question then arises, how do we represent this in written English? Knowing the origins of the expression - namely the use of 'use' in the sense of 'be wont to' - I personally represent these sounds as 'I didn't use to play football', which means I follow in the footsteps of older authors such as Shakespeare, and I don't have any grammatical peculiarity to explain. (As the quotation from Fowler explains, this usage may be an archaism, but it is certainly not ungrammatical.) Whereas 'I didn't used to play football' appears to me to be inexplicable under any rules of grammar, and (I believe) arises purely from people's misrepresentation in writing of the sound 'youssto'. They are induced into this misrepresentation because of the common (and completely correct) use of 'used to' as an adjectival phrase in 'I am used to that'. Once the misinterpretation has taken hold, there is then a grammatical peculiarity to explain, namely how can a past tense such as 'used' consist with another past tense such as 'I didn't'? (And I think it was this grammatical anomaly that you were trying to explain with your original question, correct me if I'm wrong.) But on my interpretation, this is a problem entirely of our own manufacturing, which does not arise on a correct interpretation of the 'youssto' sound. Hope this clarifies my thinking, which is not offered prescriptively, or as the only possible view on the subject. Maid Marion 15:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, and in support of the above remarks, I have just done what no doubt I should have done earlier, namely referred to the Chambers dictionary on my bookshelves. Under the entry 'used to' it says 'There is often uncertainty about the correct negative form of used to. The following are all acceptable - He used not to do it, He usedn't to do it, He didn't use to do it. The following are usually considered incorrect - He usen't to do it, He didn't used to do it'. Maid Marion 16:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps you might the following quote from Online Etymological Dictionary useful:
- Verbal phrase used to "formerly did or was" (as in I used to love her) represents a construction attested from 1303, and common from c.1400, but now surviving only in p.t. form.
- Further I find it interesting that the adjectives gebräuchlich (German) and gebruikelijk (Dutch), derivatives of the verbs gebrauchen and gebruiken respectively (OE brucan), have a meaning comparable to the phrase used to: "usual, customary, habitual, common". --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 12:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- What's even more interesting (I think) is that the "use" vs "usual" connection you point not only exists for the Germanic ("gebrauchen" etc) but also to the unrelated Romance language word "use", e.g. Spanish "usuar" and "usualmente" --BluePlatypus 18:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- On how to spell it, I would prefer "did you used" to "did you use". This would at least be consistent with "did you ought". Although it's rather got lost in the mists of time, don't forget that "ought" started out as the past tense of "to owe", and there was never any question the negative/interrogative of "I ought to" being "I didnt owe"/"did you owe to", nor "did you ough" without the past-sounding -t. . I'm sure those who stopped using "I oughtn't" went straight to "I didn't ought to". So if we are arguing that a new class of verbs is in the process of being created, I would say that "used to" (like "ought to") is invariable with all the conjugating happening on the auxiliary (don't, doesn't, did, didn't) not on the word itself. We are gradually reaching a situation where "used" like "ought" are no longer past forms even though they may look like it because of the final -t and -d. After all ther's nothing to say English verbs can't end in -t or -d in the present infinitive. Jameswilson 00:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
wuthering heights
has anyone read wuthering heights? if so, what do you think of heathcliff? is he a villian, just a man desparately in love? MysteriousStranger 18:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- I confess that I rooted for Heathcliff when I read it. David Sneek 19:01, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Very complex psychology here, tied up with early 19th century English social conditions in the time of early industrialization and Romanticism. You might like to read our article on Wuthering Heights. If you're really interested, have a look at Gothic novel. --Halcatalyst 03:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- And if you're really, really interested, read Wuthering Heights. David Sneek 07:45, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- I've read about 20 pages in the last week, but the language is too lofty and 19th century and uber-cheerful that I can't hack it really! It sounds to me like a bad translations of a foreign text. --Dangherous 23:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I could see "too lofty and 19th century," but "uber-cheerful"? Are you reading the same Wuthering Heights that I read? Maybe you haven't gotten far enough into it to start on the desolate saga that it becomes. But I love that lofty 19th century style (a bit like Dickens, a contemporary, I think), and I would say it is about as far from a bad translation of a foreign text as one could get. Usually after reading anything from the period, I find myself speaking in that more complex style automatically for a while. Things were different then... --Cromwellt|Talk 03:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- If you want lofty, hard-to-read language, try Trollope. Or De Quincey. If you want something absolutely delightful from that period, I recommend Charles Lamb. His language is a little convoluted from our perspective, perhaps because folks then weren't in the gawdawful hurry we always are. --Halcatalyst 23:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- His "Disquisition Upon Roast Pig" is priceless. --Halcatalyst 23:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmmm. In looking more closely at this text, I see it's a "translation" of Lamb. For shame! I'll see if I can find the real thing online. --Halcatalyst 23:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- No luck. --Halcatalyst 23:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmmm. In looking more closely at this text, I see it's a "translation" of Lamb. For shame! I'll see if I can find the real thing online. --Halcatalyst 23:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- His "Disquisition Upon Roast Pig" is priceless. --Halcatalyst 23:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- If you want lofty, hard-to-read language, try Trollope. Or De Quincey. If you want something absolutely delightful from that period, I recommend Charles Lamb. His language is a little convoluted from our perspective, perhaps because folks then weren't in the gawdawful hurry we always are. --Halcatalyst 23:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I could see "too lofty and 19th century," but "uber-cheerful"? Are you reading the same Wuthering Heights that I read? Maybe you haven't gotten far enough into it to start on the desolate saga that it becomes. But I love that lofty 19th century style (a bit like Dickens, a contemporary, I think), and I would say it is about as far from a bad translation of a foreign text as one could get. Usually after reading anything from the period, I find myself speaking in that more complex style automatically for a while. Things were different then... --Cromwellt|Talk 03:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Japanese question- 'a Dharma'
In a Japanese novel, the narrator sees an apparition which he describes as 'resembling a Dharma'- at least that's the translation (I haven't read the original). Does Dharma in this context mean a kind of person- boddhisattva?- or is this still Dharma in the usual abstract sense? Markyour words 19:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think it means resembling Bodhidharma (or most probably his representation in form of a Daruma doll.) deeptrivia (talk) 19:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Ah, thanks! Markyour words 19:26, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
March 10
english grammer site
I search too much about english gremmer site ,I want the english grammer internet site which have Numerous grammer exercise and Solution
- This seems like a good one. It also offers exercises to improve spelling and vocabulary. David Sneek 21:03, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Here are a few: Guide to Grammar and Writing, Online writing lab at Purdue University, The Tongue United. —Wayward Talk 01:31, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- Another good one is dianahacker.com. It's oriented to her writing textbooks (which are very good) and sponsored by her publisher. Teachers and students use the site for class online work, but it looks like anyone can go in and use the writing exercises there by simply entering a name. --Halcatalyst 15:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- P.S., there is an English as a Second Language (ESL) section. --Halcatalyst 15:54, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
A city made of disease
What would be the correct term for a city made of diseases? No illnesses or maladies in particular - just disease in general? Sorry, weird question, I know. Adambrowne666 23:30, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- do you mean a city whose inhabitants are uniformly diseased? or a city inhabited solely by disease-causing microorganisms? diseases aren't entities in their own right; they're abnormal conditions of living organisms.
- you might try pathopolis (from the Greek for disease and city), which has been used once or twice before. —Charles P._(Mirv) 00:39, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Of course - pathopolis - thanks! Adambrowne666 03:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
March 11
Archaic French
In English, when authors want to convey a sense of old fashioned-ness, they would use streotypes like ye, thy, thou, dost, and hither, and etc. I need to write a short story in French, and are there any such old-fashoned steotypes in French?
- Hilarious terms and funny grammar may be found in renaissance authors - Rabelais, Ronsard ... try the french wikiquote or googl - to help building a tasty jargon like : "Doulce amye mienne venoit et me baisoit la main. Dès matines allions ès lieux paradisiaques" (My sweet girl came and kissed my hand. Together whe went in the morning to paradise places ...) --DLL 07:23, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- And use "point" instead of "pas". --Dangherous 23:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Use the imperfect subjunctive instead of the conditional, and the pluperfect subjunctive instead of the past conditional. Brian G. Crawford 20:37, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hum... it is more in the way it is written (there were a LOT of "s" and "l" that weren't pronounced that have now disappeared). For instance : "un trosne" for "un trône" (a throne) or "Qui estes-vous ?" for "Qui êtes-vous ?" (Who art thou?). In the oral language however, this cannot be rendered.
There were also a few "y" that are now written "i". Most common example is "roy" which is an old fashion way of writting "roi" (king).
Another sterotype is the systematic use of "passé simple" while we now especially use the "passé composé". For instance, we now say "Je suis né en 1965 j'ai vécu à Paris." in an old-fashion way would be : "Je naquis en 1965 et je vécus à Paris".
Another one is the use of the "imparfait du subjonctif", which is almost never used nowadays (we use "présent du subjonctif" instead : e.g. "Il m'a demandé que je fasse attention" (modern), would be : "Il me demanda que je fisse attention". The classic example : "Encore eût il fallu que je le sus !" (if only I've known) which would be said nowadays : "Il aurait encore fallu que je le sache"
Now, what I described, would be a 17-19 century style.
For an older style : a lot of verbs would finish in "oïe" or "oit", and a lot of familiar feminine names in "esse" ("une pauvresse"= a poor girl).
There are a few words of vocabulary that smell like medieval times, like "oncques" (never), "ouïr" (to listen), "parentèle" (kinship), "raillerie" (a jest, mocking), "pendard" (a rogue), "palsambleu" ("gadzooks", literally, "by the blue blood") , "olifant" (an old hunting horn), "occire" (to kill, to slay), "nef" (a ship, a vessel), "morbleu" or "mordiou" ("Ye gods!", literally "the blue death"), "ma mie" (my darling, my beloved), "ménétrier" or "ménestrel" (a fiddler), "arpent" (an acre), "céans" (here), "chaloir" (to matter), "Corbleu" (By Jove), "épousailles" (nuptials), "faquin" (a knave), "goupil" (a fox), "ne... goutte" (not a thing), "hostellerie" (hostelry), "icelle"/"iceui" (she/he), "marri" (aggrieved), "ripailles" (feast), "septentrion"/"meridien"(North/South), "spadassion" (swordsman), "tudieu" (zounds)
A few sentences :- "Oncques ne vit plus pareil triomphe" (never had there been such an outstanding triumph)
- "Oïez, oïez, braves gens" (Hark, or hear ye, good peeple)
- "Vous m'en voyez fort marri" (I am most aggrieved)
- "Je suis le maîstre de céans" (I am the master of this house)
- Hope this helps... Feel free to ask more questions --Sixsous 03:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hum... it is more in the way it is written (there were a LOT of "s" and "l" that weren't pronounced that have now disappeared). For instance : "un trosne" for "un trône" (a throne) or "Qui estes-vous ?" for "Qui êtes-vous ?" (Who art thou?). In the oral language however, this cannot be rendered.
Whats it called?!?!?
Hi what do you call it in english poetry where an argument between two people is presented howevever only one part is discussed. An example would be John Donne's The Flea. Thanks Kingstonjr 16:23, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- In this case you could call it sophism if you like: a closely reasoned, empty argument (but very clever in the poem [do you think any woman would be swayed by it?]). --Halcatalyst 18:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well with Donne's vast amount of money, handsomely rugged looks and dangerous way about him.........no, i think it was too early a centuray for that.Kingstonjr 18:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- You may want monologue. Septentrionalis 22:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
March 12
Warfare
I understand there's a single word that describes an event in warfare where the commander of one army personally combats and kills his counterpart in the opposing army. I recall Churchill using the word in his writing on Marlborough. I also faintly recall that the word begins either with an "m" or a "v".
Could you please try and find out?
Thank you very much
Bhalchandrarao C. Patwardhan
- Jousting may be the word you're looking for. Jousting takes place between knights, who by natural right (as conceived in feudal society) are the leaders. --Halcatalyst 19:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- Possibly monomachia [Latin] or monomachy. Rmhermen 01:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
See also Spolia opima. Septentrionalis 05:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Also "challenge", as in "5b: to call out to duel or combat": [1]. If you want it to start with "v", perhaps "vanquish the challenger" ? StuRat 18:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Single combat?
word meaning
KOESISIPELUOVACA seen on wall paper on inside or cottage roof in Fiji island resort.
We are looking for people to translate the following into as many languages as possible.
Please go to the relevant Wiktionary page and place your translations there
|
|
|
Thanks, --Dangherous 15:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Make versus Take
(1) Make
- Make a nap
- Make a sip
(2) Take
- Take a nap
- Take a sip
I am a non-native speaker of English.
Can someone tell me whether (1) or (2) is correct according to the rules of standard American English as it is accepted by educated people. Also, if possible, please explain the reason behind your choice.
--66.81.193.58 19:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Take" is correct, and using "make" instead of "take" in such phrases is an easy way to identify a non-native speaker. StuRat 18:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Option 2 is correct, just because that's the way it is. (I'm American, but I believe British English is the same in these examples.) --Nelson Ricardo 19:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- What Nelson said, in British English. Although you could also have either. Markyour words 19:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- Some comedian (George Carlin maybe?) observed that when you "take a piss", you're really doing the opposite, because you're leaving something, not taking it. —Keenan Pepper 20:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- Lots of words have different meanings. There's no striking involved in "hitting the road", "hitting the sack" or "hitting the showers". JackofOz 01:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- If we "take a shower," then why don't we say, "hitting the shower (singular)?"
--66.81.193.218 03:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I do say "I'm going to hit the shower". StuRat 18:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- You do say! And what did the poor shower ever do to you? DirkvdM 05:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Because usually when we say "hitting the showers" it's more than one person who's about to shower, and usually under separate showerheads. - Nunh-huh 06:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I suspect it's more a male thing, stemming from testosterone-induced aggression and a possible over-compensation for the fear of being seen as other than active, strong, in control, and masculine, by one's male peers who in a few moments will be standing naked quite close to you. The sensuality and pleasure of a shower are to be denied at all costs. JackofOz 07:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Because usually when we say "hitting the showers" it's more than one person who's about to shower, and usually under separate showerheads. - Nunh-huh 06:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Is there something you want to tell us, Jack ? LOL. I found communal showering in school to be most unpleasant, being a cold, mildew smelling room with no place to hang a towel, so you dropped it on the floor and it got it wet with who-knows-what. I often wondered why gyms always seem to require communal nudity, as opposed to individual shower stalls and dressing rooms, but then realized they are designed by gym teachers, who are largely homosexual (of the "butch" variety). That explains it all. The toilet stalls with no doors were the last straw, I will take my defecation needs elsewhere, thank you very much. StuRat 18:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think it's merely an extension of having communal urinals in men's toilets. How do teachers get to design gyms? I thought that was a job for designers and architects. (Is it possible you have a slight case of paranoia about gym teachers and their obviously evil agendas?) :-) JackofOz 22:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Why are incarcerated people not in cells? Why do adults have to sleep in dormitory-style jails? Why does a person who has evaded taxes have to be next to a child-molesting rapist in American prisons (I am uncertain about prisons in foreign countries)?
Moreover, if we really want to punish people, it makes sense to sequester people in small cells as opposed to making them fight with homosexuals; this is in consideration of how fatal some fights have turned out to be.
- Also, when I went to school in Los Angeles, CA, I could never defecate because the toilet stalls had no door and I didn't want to become a laughingstock.
--66.81.192.2 04:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Never heard of toilets without doors. I wonder what the purpose would be. Some sort of bonding? (I don't want to know what sort.) Romans didn't even have stalls and shat side by side whilst having a chat, but then they had a much more relaxed attitude towards nudity (and homosexuality for that matter). DirkvdM 05:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Is "shat" the past tense form ? :-) StuRat 22:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Shat" has an honoured place in Australian English. JackofOz 01:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Is "shat" the past tense form ? :-) StuRat 22:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- What would it be in non-Strine English then? Shitted? Or doesn't it exist? DirkvdM 08:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- I held it in for 5 days when I went to a camp which had no toilet stall doors. I talked to a person who served on a submarine, and he held it in for several weeks during the voyage for the same reason. (I imagine fasting and just drinking liquids was involved.) Do we need to pass a law to keep these idiots from removing the doors from toilet stalls before someone dies from their refusal to use them ? StuRat 22:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Several weeks!!! Wow, that's really taking denial of Mother Nature to new heights. Might I suggest that anybody who would risk their own life because a toilet stall door was missing might need a re-think of their priorities. Surely there comes a point when you just get over it and do what you have to do. JackofOz 01:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- I held it in for 5 days when I went to a camp which had no toilet stall doors. I talked to a person who served on a submarine, and he held it in for several weeks during the voyage for the same reason. (I imagine fasting and just drinking liquids was involved.) Do we need to pass a law to keep these idiots from removing the doors from toilet stalls before someone dies from their refusal to use them ? StuRat 22:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- At the Rainbow World Gathering I went to, there was a very relaxed attitude towards nudity, but when it came to having a shit in the woods (in an official hole in the ground, mind you), people were rather upset when I disturbed their privacy. So it's not about the nudity. Dogs are nude, but also often seem to value some privacy when they shit ("a watched dog never shits" :) ). DirkvdM 08:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
My Sons name translation
I have been searching for the translation of my 10yr. old sons name (Alexander) for a long time. I am extremleley computer iliteret and would really appreciate your help. I would dearly like the Japanese writing symbols for his name. Alexander.
Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I've lost my son and best friend. I traveled to Japan and adopted my son. He was a very ill child, but I fell in love with him. I would like to put both his American name and his Japanese equivilent on his stone as well as a tattoo across my shoulder. My son was 10 and I am 54. I miss him terribly. It has only been 4 days. Thank you for any assistance or direction you may be able to offer me. Audrey (your instructions ask that an E-mail not be included. How do I go about finding out if you've received this and if you've obtained this information? Thank you.
- Well, you have to consider that Japanese characters are intended for writing Japanese, which has different sounds from English, so if you tried to write "alexander" the closest thing you could get would be "arekusandoru". A Japanese person would probably just write it in romaji (Latin letters). That said, you could write "arekusandoru" in katakana like this: アレクサンドル (I'll upload an image of those characters if you can't see them.) —Keenan Pepper 20:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- The Japanese article on Alexander Hamilton spells it アレクサンダー ("Arekusandah") -- Mwalcoff 03:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- That way's better. —Keenan Pepper 13:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Just check back for the answer, that way it's there for everyone who's interested. Sorry about your loss. -LambaJan 04:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- You can write Alexander using katakana as mentioned above, or you can use one of the kanji ways. Here is an extract from a book on names, you can choose one you like for Alex. Sorry for your loss. +Hexagon1 (talk) 14:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
What words apply to the comparison of dissimilar terms?
Hi, can someone put forward for some words that apply to the 'comparison of dissimilar terms'? Thanks 86.129.82.92 19:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- Ironically, apples and oranges are frequently similar enough to compare, as when comparing price, nutritional into, etc. StuRat 18:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I never heard that one before, must be Britspeak. StuRat 18:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- It probably had a British origin, but it's very often heard in Australia. The common phrases encountered in our respective countries sometimes seem as different as chalk and cheese. JackofOz 22:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I.m not sure what you mean. Do you want examples or the word that means "comparison of dissimilar terms. Examples: As Black as coal as White as Snow. As sour as milk and as sweet as pie. As dark as night and as light as day. As good as gold and as bad as .....etc
However if you mean the word that means "comparison of dissimilar terms".....Chalk and Cheese are opposites not synonyms but ( I can't think of the word i want) oh yes antonyms. That is a word for two things that are opposite.By dissimilar terms do you mean opposites or like the above e.g apples and oranges. By COMPARISON of dissimilar terms do you mean for example: As hard as chalk and as soft as cheese or are you finding a similarity between two dissimilar terms by comparing them. I'm guessing that you mean the first and there definately is a word for this. Perhaps someone who has studied English lit. or with knowledge of Metaphor etc.. will know. It might come to me later.Liz
I am Looking for a Phrase...
Let us assume that I am uncertain whether Jane has stolen a bag. Now to make her own up to it, if she has stolen it, I go to her and confidently say, "Why did you purloin that bag? Go and bring it back."
Is there a verb or colloquial phrase in English to describe this trick of mine.
--66.81.192.204 23:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- The closest thing I can come up with is begging the question. moink 00:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think term presupposition is used in counselling, therapy, NLP etc. Check that out first. My take on it is this: if Jane gives information in response to how, when, where and why questions, or if she can lead you to the bag, then the question of whether she stole it (or at least had some involvement in it) is resolved. Since guilt has been implicitly admitted, explicit admission will often follow hard upon. (At least that's the way it works on CSI, The Bill, Miami Vice, Perry Mason, etc - and we all know those stories are true to life). The theory is that it is impossible not to make a valid response to a question (but it may be mingled up with other valid responses, and some invalid ones too). To the question "When did you stop beating your wife?", a man who has never beaten his wife will give a different response than a man who used to beat his wife but has now stopped. The only question is whether the response is detectable by the observer. A response can sometimes be limited to subtle facial clues such as eye movements that would take a trained observer to understand. JackofOz 07:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Link added. JackofOz 09:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I thought the classical response to such a question was mu. 61.51.253.61 06:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I have much to learn. JackofOz 09:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think term presupposition is used in counselling, therapy, NLP etc. Check that out first. My take on it is this: if Jane gives information in response to how, when, where and why questions, or if she can lead you to the bag, then the question of whether she stole it (or at least had some involvement in it) is resolved. Since guilt has been implicitly admitted, explicit admission will often follow hard upon. (At least that's the way it works on CSI, The Bill, Miami Vice, Perry Mason, etc - and we all know those stories are true to life). The theory is that it is impossible not to make a valid response to a question (but it may be mingled up with other valid responses, and some invalid ones too). To the question "When did you stop beating your wife?", a man who has never beaten his wife will give a different response than a man who used to beat his wife but has now stopped. The only question is whether the response is detectable by the observer. A response can sometimes be limited to subtle facial clues such as eye movements that would take a trained observer to understand. JackofOz 07:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Colloquially you could say that you "tripped her up". Liz.
The phrase you are looking for, I believe, is asking a loaded question. The classic and oft-cited example of a loaded question is: "Do you still beat your wife?" --Fuhghettaboutit 22:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
March 13
King Franz Joseph I
Hi, I am attempting to translate an old German passport dated April 1884. It says on the front (in German), "In the name of his Majesty Franz Joseph I, King of Austria, King of Bohemia u.s.w., and Apostalic King of Hungary." Can you tell me what u.s.w. means?
Also, in the description of the passport bearer it looks like it says: Character/Profession: (difficult to read) "Flabavryafilfa" Does this make any sense at all?
Also, description of his mouth looks like it says "yusgavlisnsit?"
Birthplace of the wife looks like: "Krizouski." Is there, or was there such a place?
Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide. Bonnie
- USW stands for "und so weiter" which translates to "and so on".
Slumgum 01:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)- It's equivalent to "etc." JackofOz 01:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- To find a fair number of places that might correspond to "Krizouski", go to Shtetl Finder and search for "Krizouski". Some are in Poland (Krzyczki), some Hungary, some Lithuania. - Nunh-huh 04:38, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
The description of his mouth? It would be great if you could upload a scan of the passport so that we could see the original rather than your interpretation of the letters. As far as I know, both German and Hungarian were official languages of Austria-Hungary, so it's possible that what you're seeing as "Flabavryafilfa" and "yusgavlisnsit?" is actually Hungarian rather than German. Angr/talk 14:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I may have quite a bit left towards full fluency in Magyar, but I think I can safely say that those two words (as written) don't make any more sense in Hungarian than in German or English. --BluePlatypus 18:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- No, I didn't think so. All I meant was, it's quite possible that when the inscriptions are deciphered correctly, they might prove to be in Hungarian rather than German. Angr/talk 19:58, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
What does this t-shirt say?
I've been thinking of buying this t-shirt, found on CafePress, for a friend who likes seals because it has a cute picture of a seal on it: http://www.cafepress.com/seal_shop.2775290
However, the shirt seems to have a message on it below the picture in a language I don't know and I don't want to buy it without knowing what it says. Attempts to reach the seller were unproductive, and I don't even know what language it might be to look it up. Can anyone help? Thanks! Crypticfirefly 02:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I hope I'm proven wrong, but my hunch is it's not a language at all but a series of artistic markings. JackofOz 03:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I don't recognize it either. The other products sold there are all in English, with "SEAL is musiclover!" moink 03:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I also thought they might be "artistic markings" but some of the other designs by the same person feature other language-like markings as well. http://www.cafepress.com/teetee One other thing: for what it is worth, it looks like the artist might live in Hong Kong. Crypticfirefly 03:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Could it be Arabic ? StuRat 18:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- It is definitely not Arabic. First thing that leaps to my mind is possibly a highly-stylized form of Japanese kana syllabary symbols.... AnonMoos 19:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Or Chinese? Septentrionalis 22:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- It is definitely not Arabic. First thing that leaps to my mind is possibly a highly-stylized form of Japanese kana syllabary symbols.... AnonMoos 19:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
According to Wictionary, this is the Japanese for 'seal': 海豹 (あざらし); おっとせい. I think can see a similarity, can you? -LambaJan 04:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- No. Although azarashi in hiragana あざらし and katakana アザラシ are written by four letters, I don't think it looks similar. --Kusunose 03:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Geir Hilmar Haarde
How do you pronounce Haarde in the Icelandic foreign minister's name? I've been able to work out how Geir and Hilmar are pronounced, so that's no problem. But also, as the name isn't a patronymic, is it still wrong to refer him as "Mr Haarde"? How should he be referred in short?
Thanks. 14:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I do not know Icelandic, but, from that article, I would guess that /keiːr ˈhɪːlmar ˈhauːrtɛ/ is the right pronunciation — if aa represents á. — Gareth Hughes 23:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that's an Icelandic surname, originally. "Haarde" sounds Danish/Norwegian to me, "Harðe" would be Icelandic. That'd make the "aa" an "å" and thus /oː/. --BluePlatypus 14:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, the article in the Icelandic Wikipedia calls him Geir throughout. — Gareth Hughes 23:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I know it's customary to use first names in Iceland, since last names are just patronyms and not proper last names at all. That said, Haarde certainly doesn't look like a canonical Icelandic patronym (since it doesn't end in -son), making me wonder if perhaps the gentleman is actually a Norwegian or Dane or something who has moved (or whose parents moved) to Iceland. Angr/talk 14:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- It could easily be a Norwegian (or Danish) name. In Norway, the first vowel could be pronounced like the a in hard (if read as two a's) or like the a in ball (if read as old transcription of the letter å). Impossible to say from the spelling alone. The guy has appeared in Norwegian media a couple of times, but I do not remember how they pronounced his name. From my knowledge of Icelandic (pretty sparse), the h should be pronounced like in hit, the rd like in hard but with a rolling r, and the e like in head. Jørgen 21:18, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- I know it's customary to use first names in Iceland, since last names are just patronyms and not proper last names at all. That said, Haarde certainly doesn't look like a canonical Icelandic patronym (since it doesn't end in -son), making me wonder if perhaps the gentleman is actually a Norwegian or Dane or something who has moved (or whose parents moved) to Iceland. Angr/talk 14:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Is it "will be open" or "will be opened"?
Hi, my friend raised this question out of the blue and we were all arguing over it. She mentioned that she saw a signage on a gate that read, "This gate will be open from 10am to 2pm". Which one is correct? Some of us felt that it should be "opened" not "open". Could someone kindly enlighten us? Thanks!
-Ellen
- To me, "will be opened" means it keeps getting opened and closed. "Will be open" means it stays open. User:Zoe|(talk) 17:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- As I understand the sign, the gate will be opened at 10am. It will then be open from 10am to 2pm. The sign is correct.
Slumgum 17:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- As I understand the sign, the gate will be opened at 10am. It will then be open from 10am to 2pm. The sign is correct.
- I agree. This reminds me of a sign I saw which said "No parking after 11 PM". From 11 PM until when ??? StuRat 18:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I say "correct either way" for the gate sign. You can view the owners' action of "opening the gate from 10 AM to 2 PM" as a single unit and put it in the passive, "will be opened". Or the sign can describe the state of the gate, "will be open". For the parking sign, you could make a claim that it means until midnight, but I very much doubt that was the intended meaning! Probably this is a place where nobody would be arriving to park at night anyway, and the endpoint of the period just isn't important. --Anonymous, 18:27 UTC, March 13, 2006.
- And what about the redundant signs that say "No trespassing without permission"? Why doesn't anybody change those? (Incidentally, I remember a real-life joke I read a while back. A fast food chain put up a poster saying "Chicken Wings! Their here!" After some complaints, the sign was changed to "Chicken Wings! There here!" After even more complaints were received, the restaurant gave up and finally posted "Chicken Wings! Now here!") Igor the Lion(Roar!) 21:06, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'm always bothered by signs that say tautologously "No admittance to unauthorised persons". —Blotwell 06:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- There is a real difference in English between 'will be open' and 'will be opened'. Certain verbs (stative verbs) take a form of the verb 'to be' and with an adjectival form of the verb (like 'it is open', with base form, or 'they were finished' and 'we are closed', with the past participle). This describes the state of the verb (being open, being finished). On the other hand, the form of the verb 'to be' with the past participle signifies the passive voice (this can be confusing if a verb has its stative meaning with the past participle too). Thus, 'it is opened' describes the act of something being opened, not the state of it being open. The difficulty lies in the opposite 'being closed' being used to describe both the state and the action of being closed. For example,
- The shopping centre will be opened by the mayor tomorrow — the act of opening.
- The restaurant will be closed by the health inspector — the act of closing.
- The shop will be open from eight o'clock — the state of being open.
- The restaurant will be closed tomorrow — the state of being closed.
- Therefore, seing as the sign (not 'a signage', please!) informs about when the gate will be in a state of being open, rather than when it will be being opened (by someone), it is more correct to say 'will be open'. Of course 'No trespassing without permission' is just a nonsense: if you have permission, you are not trespassing. The 'Chicken Wings' sign simply shows the inability to see the difference between the three homophones 'their', 'there' and 'they're' (meaning 'they are'). — Gareth Hughes 22:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- There is a real difference in English between 'will be open' and 'will be opened'. Certain verbs (stative verbs) take a form of the verb 'to be' and with an adjectival form of the verb (like 'it is open', with base form, or 'they were finished' and 'we are closed', with the past participle). This describes the state of the verb (being open, being finished). On the other hand, the form of the verb 'to be' with the past participle signifies the passive voice (this can be confusing if a verb has its stative meaning with the past participle too). Thus, 'it is opened' describes the act of something being opened, not the state of it being open. The difficulty lies in the opposite 'being closed' being used to describe both the state and the action of being closed. For example,
- For me, saying "the gate will be opened from 10am to 2pm" suggests that it will take 4 hours to open the gate (it must be one bloody big gate then). --Dangherous 23:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- That's how I'd interpret it too. To repeat the above in fewer words: The questioner is confusing "open" with "opened", probably because of the "will be", which gives associations to the future perfect tense of the verb ("The gate will be opened"). However, in that context (as a verb) it means that the action of opening the gate will proceed during that time. Whereas what is usually meant is "open", the adjective, a description of the state of the gate during that time. --BluePlatypus 19:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Boom,Bang....POP
Words such as Bang, Pop, Boom are so descriptive of the sound they describe it is difficult to imagine another language deviating from their use. How do other languages handle the description of specific sounds? Have other languages arrived at similar words independently from English?
Thank you.
- The article Onomatopoeia may give you some background. There's a link there to a useful page for international onomatopoeia.
Slumgum 20:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)- For an example on how differently speakers of other languages can interpret the same sound, see Oink. GeeJo (t) (c) • 23:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Not relevant, but amazing that we have stuff like List of animal sounds. Now could you find that in the Encyclopaedia Brittanica? --Halcatalyst 05:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- For an example on how differently speakers of other languages can interpret the same sound, see Oink. GeeJo (t) (c) • 23:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well, you certainly couldn't hear them, but then that's a possibility of the Internet that hasn't been tapped here yet - or is that another article? DirkvdM 05:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Somebody would have to do the work ;-). --Halcatalyst 23:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well, you certainly couldn't hear them, but then that's a possibility of the Internet that hasn't been tapped here yet - or is that another article? DirkvdM 05:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
I just happen to know that in certain parts of spain Cockadoodledoo is kirikirah. Really interesting how culture affects language. Liz
- Kikirikí or quiquiriquí, to be more precise ;) --RiseRover|talk 13:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- In Aristophanes, the frogs make the noise 'Kekekekex koax koax'. Maid Marion 15:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Rooster talk in French is something like ki-ki-ri-ku. Which to me sounds more accurate than cockadoodledo. --Halcatalyst 23:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, cockadoodledo in Frech is "Cocoriko". Spanish (in southern Spain at least) is "Kikiriki". A language very rich with Onomatopoeia is Japanese. They have one for almost every action or event, including smiling ("Niko") or looking at something ("Jii" or "Jitto")... Besides, they do not hesitate to use them in everyday speech. For instance, they can say "He was *niko-niko* at me" instead of "He was smiling at me", or "He was *jirojiro* at me" instead of "He was staring at me"... As for the animals, well, cows go "Mo", cats go "nyaa", dogs "wan", pigs say "buu", frogs "kerokero" and roosters "kokekokkoo"... oh, a lion goes "gaoooo" ^-^' A few verbs, that have evolved from Onomatopoeia to give you an idea :
- Jabujabu : to splash water
- Gabugabu : to drink water very quickly
- Katankatan : to travel on rails (sound of the train)
- Gabagaba : to be in loose clothes (sound of the clothes)
- Gakugaku : to be very tired (or to be very afraid) (sound of legs shaking)
- Uunuun : to cry out of pain
- Paripari : to eat something crunchy
It is almost never inappropriate to use these verbs (unless in a very formal context). --Sixsous 04:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Rote Grütze
What's the best way to translate de:Rote Grütze into English? It seems to be a classic dish of some sort...is it made of berries? --HappyCamper 23:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- The de:Grütze article's English version is called Grits. 'Rote' means 'red', so it's a red coloured 'grits' dish.
Slumgum 23:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- It doesn't seem to say which berries it's made of, but it is made of red berries (and other red fruit) anyway. --Dangherous 23:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Doesn't appear to be anything like grits. The de:Rote Grütze article says sour cherries were standard, now raspberries and Johannisberries are also used. Rmhermen 02:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Rote Grütze isn't even remotely like grits. There is no name for it in English, so if you're thinking of translating the article, just call it Rote Grütze in English. It's a dessert made from cherries, raspberries, and red currants, and served with vanilla sauce. I think it's typical of northern Germany. I'd probably quite like it if it weren't for the cherries. Angr/talk 11:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Would't "raspberry cherry currant compote with vanilla sauce" get the job done? - Nunh-huh 17:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Rote Grütze isn't even remotely like grits. There is no name for it in English, so if you're thinking of translating the article, just call it Rote Grütze in English. It's a dessert made from cherries, raspberries, and red currants, and served with vanilla sauce. I think it's typical of northern Germany. I'd probably quite like it if it weren't for the cherries. Angr/talk 11:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Doesn't appear to be anything like grits. The de:Rote Grütze article says sour cherries were standard, now raspberries and Johannisberries are also used. Rmhermen 02:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- It doesn't seem to say which berries it's made of, but it is made of red berries (and other red fruit) anyway. --Dangherous 23:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
German wordsquashing
Is there a term (in German or English) for the act of ramming loads of words together to make one really long word, eg. Hausaufgabenheft = homework book ? Thanks, --Dangherous 23:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- It's not agglutination: that refers to the property of some languages to add numerous semantic particles to words, unlike inflexion languages that may have but one semantic 'ending'. I would suggest the more prosaic word 'compounding', see compound (linguistics). — Gareth Hughes 00:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- You're right, my apologies. Compounding is good, or even wordsquashing (a self-referential adjective). —Keenan Pepper 04:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I've heard that in Turkish whole sentences can be put into one word. Is that glutinous or compounded? DirkvdM 05:50, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Turkish is an agglutinating language. Liz
- Indeed. I've never heard of a glutinous language before. Angr/talk 12:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
When I was in 2nd grade, I asked the teacher how to write in cursive. She said you connect the letters together. So, I wrote a whole page with all the letters connected together, not just those in the same word. It got quite a laugh from the teacher, who was more precise in her answers from then on. StuRat 22:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
March 14
What are these songs, titled in English?
I just LOVE a lot of these songs on the site apparently from Hong Kong.
http://hk.geocities.com/mkwmark01/music01.htm
Here are the songs I love the most (the ones I love even better are bolded) :
15 | 25 | 40 | 52 | 54 | 78 | 102 t.A.T.u. All the Things She Said |
118 | 123 | |
142 | 166 | 169 | 174 | 184 | 191 | 235 | 251 | 259 |
So can anyone translate the names of these songs, please? The Chinese names will be found on the link above. Thanks. --Shultz III 06:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Found 102 - Slumgum 22:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you. That's one so far. Can anyone else decipher what they know? --Shultz III 02:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- This is the google-translated version. If you need precise info, you could email the site's creator.
Slumgum 02:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Translation of this phrase into as many languages as possible.
Could various people help me translate this phrase into as many languages as possible? I don't trust Babelfish or its brethren. Every day in every way I am becoming better. Thank you!
- Welsh: Pob dydd, ym mhob ffordd, rwy'n gwellháu.
- (Latin) Omni die in omni modo melior fio. (Italian) Ogni giorno in ogni modo divento meglio (this is a wild guess!) (Classical Greek, sorry I can't do the diacritics) Παση ημερα παντως αμεινων γιγνομαι (paseh hemera pantohs amaynohn gignomai). (Modern Greek) Καθε μερα απο καθε αποψια καλυτερευω (kathe mera apo kathe apopsia kaluterevo).Maid Marion 15:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- German: Jeden Tag werde ich in jeder Hinsicht besser. —da Pete (ノート) 16:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- French: Chaque jour, de chaque manière, je deviens meilleur et meilleur.
I believe this is the original version. --Anonymous, 17:00 UTC, March 14, 2006.- Yes, it's Émile Coué's old mantra. (I wonder how many hundreds of people have fruitlessly chanted that thing on their deathbed?) --BluePlatypus 18:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- French: Chaque jour, de chaque manière, je deviens meilleur et meilleur.
- Original french : Tous les jours et à tous points de vue, je vais de mieux en mieux. --DLL 18:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- This is certainly far more idiomatic. --Halcatalyst 23:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the correction. --Anon, 23:22 UTC, March 15.
- This is certainly far more idiomatic. --Halcatalyst 23:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Arabic: حياتي أحسن كل يوم و فى كل وجهة نظر I went off the more idiomatic one. Literally (ar->en): My life I'm improving every day and in every point of view. -LambaJan 03:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Tagalog: Araw-araw ay gumagaling ako kahit papaano. Spanish: Todos los días, bajo todos los puntos de vista, voy de mejor en mejor. (I got this from a page about Émile Coué rather than translating it from English). --Chris S. 05:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Dutch: "Iedere dag word ik in ieder opzicht steeds beter". A more literal and possibly 'stronger' translation would be "Iedere dag, in ieder opzicht, word ik beter en beter". The German translation by da Pete above is rather like my first one, except that 'immer' for 'steeds' is left out. With that it'd be "Jeden Tag werde ich in jeder Hinsicht immer besser". The second Dutch version would in German be "Jeden Tag, in jeder Hinsicht, werde ich besser und besser". I bet the other languages have similar problems, with the order of the words and especially "je deviens meilleur et meilleur". The English "I am becoming better" doesn't quite sound right. "I grow better and better" might be better. Then again, it's not my first language. DirkvdM 08:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- I've always heard it in English as "Every day, in every way, I am getting better and better." Angr/talk 16:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Igpay Atinlay: Everyway ayday inway everyway ayway Iway amway ecomingbay etterbay. ydnjohay alktay 16:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Serbian/Bosnian/Croatian: "Svakoga dana u svakom pogledu sve više napredujem". By the way, it's rather famous over here after Emir Kusturica's "Do You Remember Dolly Bell?" movie. Duja 17:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Danish: "Hver dag og på hver måde, bliver jeg bedre og bedre", Norwegian: "Hver dag og på hver måde, bliver jeg bedre og bedre", Swedish: "Varje dag och på varje sätt, blir jag bättre och bättre", Icelandic: "Hvern dag, á hvern hátt, líður mér betur og betur.", Hungarian: "Minden nap és minden szempontból egyre jobban és jobban vagyok”, Russian: "Каждый день, во всех отношениях, я становлюсь лучше и лучше" --BluePlatypus 20:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Hebrew: כל יום בכל אורח אני יותר ויותר טוב
Traditional Chinese: 每一天我都用不同方法令自己不斷進步。 Simplified Chinese: 每一天我都用不同方法令自己不断进步。
How do I write this in Esperanto?
"This book contains the notes of Jimmy Noodle on the subject of ESPERANTO. March 15, 2006." also, how do I say "I am a student of the Esperanto language." (My guess is: Mi estas ??? la lingvo Esperant.)
- (Chi-)tiu libro enhavas la notojn de Jimmy Noodle pri Esperanto.
- Lauvorte: Mi estas studanto de Esperanto. = Mi studas Esperanton.
- In writing, proper accents should be used instead of ASCII transliteration; the sentences should start "(Ĉi)-tiu..." and "Laŭvorte:...".--Prosfilaes 20:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
oppposite of misogyny
What is the opposite of mysogyny? If misogyny is the hatred of women, is there a word which describes a hatred of men?
- misandry. - Nunh-huh 17:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Opposite of misogyny would be philogyny. Hatred of men would be misandry (not sure if this exists, but if it doesn't, let's coin it). Maid Marion 18:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Does that mean that the opposite of misandry is "philandry"? And is that where "philanderer" came from? No help from the article. I suspect I'm right. But how curious. At its most basic level, philandering is about men bedding women. But "philandry" would seem to indicate a love of men. And it doesn't say who by. Could be by women, or by men. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but how did the meaning become changed, from the aggressive sex-warrior, to this metrosexual receptacle of the desires of others? JackofOz 12:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Jack, Chambers dictionary says that it literally means 'lover of men' but is misapplied to mean 'loving man', and is apparently used as a proper name of a lover in Greek literature. Can't recall coming across any such character in Greek lit, but no doubt he appears in some comedy or other. Maid Marion 14:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, "misandry" is a word: I confirmed it before I answered. -Nunh-huh 19:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- We even have an article about misandry. —Keenan Pepper 03:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Say, might the word perchance be 'misandry'? DirkvdM 08:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
The opposite of hatred of women would be love of women. Men and women aren't opposites, they're complementary. And what love of women is called depends on whether you're one yourself. DirkvdM 08:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- This is a general problem when people speak of "opposites". In this case the original poster specified what sort of "opposite" was wanted. --Anon, 23:23 UTC, March 15, 2006.
- Yes, he did, and you should be ashamed of yourself. The answer is 'feminism', or 'rabid feminism' if you want to really make a point. Misandry may be proper root-wise (or is that mixing Latin and Greek?) but I doubt anyone will understand it, and it certainly doesn't pack much of a punch. Black Carrot 03:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Whereas "feminism" is likely to get you punched. If you're talking with people who think that women belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, then yes, they will think that feminism and misandry are the same thing. --Prosfilaes 05:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Gothic Alphabet
[Question moved here from the Help Desk by Kilo-Lima]
Hi, I do name extraction for a geneology web site, and I'm in need of a Gothic alphabet that was used in the scandanavian countries and also in Old England
Can anyone help me.
chickadeeallen
- It's not clear what is wanted (can it be clarified? I assume somehow the author of a moved question is told where to find it): a font? an explanation? Check our gothic alphabet article; it has links to the Unicode code chart for Gothic encoding, and to other resources that may help, especially this one. - Nunh-huh 18:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think they are looking for a blackletter typeface. They would need to specify the century, however, "Old England" is a little imprecise; maybe they are looking for Early Modern English times? dab (ᛏ) 18:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what the question is, either. The only alphabets used in the Scandinavian countries were the Runic alphabet, and later the Latin one. Dab is probably right in that they're looking for the gothic typeface. --BluePlatypus 18:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- To further confound confusion, in 19th-century printing terminology, "Gothic" meant "Sans-serif"... AnonMoos 21:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Jack knife
What is the origin of the word "jack knife"? Was the spelling different? Thanks. Lowell
- The Online Etymology Dictionary has this to say: 1711, perhaps so called because it originally was associated with sailors. As a type of dive, from 1922. The verb is attested from 1776. --Rueckk 20:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- And sailors are all supposed to be called Jack? DirkvdM 08:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Hello, sailor". JackofOz 09:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well, there is the old term for sailor, "Jack-Tar."
- "Hello, sailor". JackofOz 09:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- And sailors are all supposed to be called Jack? DirkvdM 08:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
March 15
Is it correct to write "You will be spoiled for choice" or "You will be spoilt for choice"?
If anyone can answer the above question, I will be forever grateful. —This unsigned comment is by 141.153.178.25 (talk • contribs) 04:17, 15 March 2006.
- I'm not sure, but I think spoiled is more common in American English while spoilt is more common in British English. In Alabama, we would definitely say spoiled. --TantalumTelluride 04:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Both are correct; "spoilt for choice" is about 5 times more common on the Internet than "spoiled for choice", and the phrase should in any case probably be used sparingly, as it's idiomatic and the meaning may not be immediately clear to those who don't already know it. The preponderance of "spoilt" is probably because the idiom is peculiar to British English. - Nunh-huh 04:44, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- What does it mean? Is it like having an embarasse de richesses? Angr/talk 06:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, exactly. - Nunh-huh 07:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- What does it mean? Is it like having an embarasse de richesses? Angr/talk 06:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- THe idiomatic use of the verb spoil is that seen in the usage to spoil a child, meaning that it is bad for a child to receive to much of a good thing. However, spoilt for choice is only slightly negative in meaning, much like embarasse de richesses. British English does use variant spellings in -t and -ed for many past tense/participles, where American English only uses the more regular -ed form. In British English, they are virtually interchangable in those verbs that take both (e.g. burn, spell, smell). However, there is a distinct preference for one or other based on the word's grammatical use, and, oddly enough, the apparant duration of the action (the -ed form suggesting duration). — Gareth Hughes 11:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Are you sure about them being interchangeable Gareth? When using the past tense my impression is that we always (in Britain) use the form in -ed, never the form in -t. Whereas when using the participle there seems to be more variety of usage, and both forms occur. Personally, I use the -t form as the participle, and the -ed form as past tense, because it seems a useful distinction. (And while I'm on this page, are we spelling the French term correctly? I don't have a dictionary handy, but isn't the spelling 'embarras'?) Maid Marion 15:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Translation
Is there an English sentence which is NOT an idiom but which cannot be translated into another language? Ohanian 07:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Any sentence, even idioms, can be translated literally into any other language, although some languages might not have certainly technical terms that exist in English (I rather doubt that Sentinelese has a word for "high-speed modem"), and so either a loanword, a loan translation (calque), or some other work-around might be necessary for those. Idioms lose their metaphorical meaning when translated literally, and puns lose their humor when translated literally, but otherwise, no, any sentence in any language can be translated into any other. Angr/talk 08:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- I have serious doubts about puns being translatable. It's not just that puns "lose their humour when translated literally". Puns cease to even be puns when divorced from their humor. The meaning of a communication is in the response it gets from the recipient. If the essential meaning isn't being communicated, can you be said to have truly translated the sentence? When considering the translation of puns, I believe it is essential to make the words the slave and the humour the master. Some would argue that this is not awhich is a translation at all, more like a paraphrase. So be it. It's a very moot point. But either way, I think you've lost too much to call it a translation. JackofOz 09:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Everything can be translated and nothing can be translated. You can't translate anything if you by translation mean conveying exactly the same meaning and connotations as the original. But that's a fundamentally flawed idea because no language is unambiguous to begin with. Different people make different associations when reading the same thing, even if it's a simple text. Not to mention things like dialects and regional variations. Naturally there are more and less ambiguous words and there are better and worse translations. But it's a pretty impossible question unless you can come up with a precise definition of what "translatable" means. --BluePlatypus 16:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Similarly to puns, any form of sentence that talks about the sound or spelling or physical appearance of the words in it will be problematic to translate. You could end up with something like "The first letter of the word was missing due to a misprint, so I couldn't tell whether it was supposed to be THOSE, TWO, FIRES, or EYES", which seems to make no sense at all. Typically what is actually done in such a case is to include explicit wording, either in a footnote or within the sentence, pointing out that the truncated word was in French and would be CEUX, DEUX, FEUX, or YEUX. But the result is no longer a literal translation.
- Similar issues arise when translating poetry (what do you do if the original rhymed "eyes" with "fires") or works like La Disparition, a novel in French written without the letter E (by the way, the English version is titled A Void). Those who find this sort of thing an interesting subject should certainly take a look at Le Ton beau de Marot, a thick book by Douglas R. Hofstadter which in one sense is on the topic of how best to translate into English a single short poem in medieval French, but goes into much more than that.
- --Anonyme, 23:18 UTC, 15 mars 2006. Mars, that's a planet, right?
- Or a chocolate manufacturer? JackofOz 23:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- --Anonyme, 23:18 UTC, 15 mars 2006. Mars, that's a planet, right?
Narrating difficulties pls. help
In narrating a story, are you allowed to not be a character in a story? just to make a story about a character I created to do stuff in my imaginary created worl, but Im not part of the story not a character or anyone. So can I not be a character at my story??
This is my problem I need some advice on how to narrate a good story. please reply soon.
- It's allowed. In your imaginary world you are absolutely free. David Sneek 11:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- OK. If it isn't about you, it must be about other people. Them, over there. That's who the story is about. But how does that have any risk of involving you as a character? You're the writer, you get to decide what happens. You don't need permission. Check out Third Person. JackofOz 12:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Of course you can be a first-person narrator. If you like, take a look at our very full article Narrator. --Halcatalyst 23:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Doesn't that involve the narrator in the story, at least indirectly? That seems to be the very thing the questioner does not want to do. JackofOz 23:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
A narrator can be a character in the story, but doesn't need to be. In the TV sitcom Malcolm in the Middle, for example, Malcolm frequently stops mid-scene to talk with the audience. However, other narrators aren't in the story at all. StuRat 00:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Ron Howard narrates Arrested Development, but he is not a character on the show. --Nelson Ricardo 01:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
What does NNNN stand for?
In the olden days, we can see NNNN at the of a telex document. Some people are still using it at the end of press releases. What does NNNN stand for? Why is it appended to the end of a document? --Chan Tai Man 11:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- It's the "End of Message" code for telex. I don't think it stands for anything in particular. I have no idea why they chose "NNNN", but there's probably some story behind it out there. Anyone? --BluePlatypus 16:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- This makes me think of a template or placeholder for any numeric end of message code. As the use of that code may have disappeared, only the format (meaning any number from 0 to 9999) subsided. Anyone else ? --DLL 19:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- See "The NNNN... is a familiar one hole consecutive sequence which can be quickly identified as end of message by operators" at AFTN and it is also mentioned in Specific Area Message Encoding#Full Message Breakdown. hydnjo talk 00:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Relevancy vs Relevance
please forgive me if I have done this wrong, but i am new to wiki-world :)
i searched an item for which there was no wikipedia entry, and was taken to a page with suggestions and "Relevancy", expressed as a percentage. I have never heard or seen this word before, so I searched wiktionary for "Relevancy" but was unable to find a definition. Should "Relevancy" be replaced by "Relevance" ??
Andrew
- "Relevancy" is in my 1975 dictionary. Fowler (1976) says: "The OED treats -cy as the standard form. In practice they are probably equally common". Which is surprising. I agree with you, "relevance" seems to be a lot more common these days, at least in my world. But on the other hand, what about this quote from Flanders and Swann: "They said I was irrelevant. But I ain't a relephant, I'm a ... gnu". Now, I don't know about you, but I think that displays a great deal of irrelevance, or irrelevancy if you prefer. It's always good to see both sides of these sorts of questions. JackofOz 13:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Relevancy" is in my computer's dictionary as well. (I use the New Oxford American Dictionary, Second Edition [2] that came with Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger".) "Relevancy" is listed as a derivative of "relevant". (See [3].) —OneofThem 18:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Looking for an idiom or phrase
I'm looking for the idiomatic word or phrase that could be used to describe overly general statements such as:
- Japanese people are better at everything.
- Everyone's favorite color is blue.
- All white people live in the USA.
- Everyone loves chocolate.
I've forgotten what it's called and haven't found anything remotely relevant in searches for things like "overly general stament". --Tifego 19:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Generalization"? "Stereotype"? I dunno. :P —OneofThem 19:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- It's not either of those. It's something very specifically referring to the statement. --Tifego 19:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- And it is common enough that I believe there is probably a Wikipedia article on it, which I can't find because I don't know its name. --Tifego 19:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- "overgeneralization" is an acceptable compound. --BluePlatypus 19:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Prejudice seems a little hard ? --DLL 19:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Er...sorry if this sounds stupid, but wouldn't generalization or universal affirmative work? If you want to be more specific, there's a lot of stuff linked in the syllogistic fallacy article. -Наташа ( User ♡ Talk ) 19:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
It is none of these mentioned so far. Sure, I could call it an overgeneralization, but that just doesn't sound as witty as using the idiom that was coined to mean this exact thing. (Especially because overgeneralization has way more syllables... it's a 2- or 3-syllable phrase.) Somebody must know this, considering how many times I've heard or read it being used... --Tifego 21:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Would it be hyperbole?--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 22:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Are you sure "stereotyping" (mentioned above) isn't what you want? --Anonymous, 23:20 UTC, March 15, 2006.
- I think you're looking for Hasty generalization. --Halcatalyst 23:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
How about Tautology? User:Zoe|(talk) 23:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
"blanket statement"? moink 23:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Blanket statement! I think that was it, thanks. --Tifego 00:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Hebrew Word Meaning
What is the Literary Meaning Of this Hebrew Word "Nachshoon"?
- "The boy's name Nachshon is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "adventurous, daring". --DLL 19:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- I really wouldn't trust those baby name sites for accurate etymologies. The root of this name appears to be the same as the root for the word "snake" in Hebrew. But Nachshon is only a name in Hebrew (not a regular Hebrew word), to most precisely answer the question. AnonMoos 22:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
The meaning of the french word juveigneurie
Hi, I am researching my family tree and have come across the word juveigneurie as in the sentence
"juveigneurie de Coataudon dont les seigneurs sont issues Des Barons de Pont de Corral, Les blaisons Des familles.,les blaisons de Coataudon sont issus du Pont-l'abbe,les blaisons des familles."
Can anyone translate this for me please. I have tried various dictionarys and Babelfish but neither can help. Thanks
- Just googld for it : "Juveigneurie has nothing to do with this at all. This was a modification of Breton customary law which allowed the division of noble estates to give an inheritance to younger brothers.". The word contains roots alike juvenus (young) and seigneurie (lordship). Bla[i]sons is an heraldic sign. --DLL 21:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Not exactly the same, but the gavelkind article will give you a general idea of the system. Jameswilson 23:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- That's an interesting word, that. Had to look up the etymology, and since this is the language page, I thought I'd share it: from OE "gafol" (tribute, tax, rent) and "kind" (offspring, kin). --BluePlatypus 01:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
March 16
Looking for an illusive word
Hi, My ten year old son and I are searching for the meaning of a word. Runcible appeared in a book we are reading in this sentence, "A long way from the coast of Kansas, there is an island, a runcible island covered with forest." We have searched our dictionaries (three), and checked the search engine Ask, but the closest we have come is a runcible spoon: meaning a sharp edged fork with three broad curved prongs. However, we don't think this definition is appropriate for our purposes. Can you help us? Thank you for your efforts.
Sincerely, Tricia and Alex
- Runcible is a word concocted by Edward Lear in his poem The Owl and the Pussycat: "They dined on mince, and slices of quince, / Which they ate with a runcible spoon." See runcible spoon. It's been used in other contexts as a silly nonsensical word since then. moink 01:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
first generation college student
As a 49 year old grandmother finally attending college online, I just learned of the Flesch-Kincaid rating. The first occasion I've had to write something for class, I typed it in MS Word and received an 'ease of reading' rating of 57 and a grade level rating of 10.2.
Should I be insulted that I apparently write on a 10th grade level?? How, exactly, should I interpret this numbers as related to my writing skills?
Bonnie Wolff
- Absolutely not. Don't ever write papers just for the purpose of increasing that score. Your aim is to write papers that present your ideas clearly, flow easily, and are well organized. Something that shows you know the material, and have been thoughtful about the subject. Computers are not very good at evaluating these qualitative things. The Flesch-Kincaid rating is a score that is generated based on things like the length of the words that you use, the number of syllables, the length of your sentences, et cetera. It has no ability whatsoever to interpret the meaning behind your paper. I would take it with a grain of salt. The score is correlated with the whereabouts of academic papers - for example, if you were to analyse really scientific papers, the score tends to be quite high - perhaps due to the technical jargon used, and the lengthy/complicated sentence structure. However, none of these necessarily mean that the paper itself is of high calibre. I would talk to your professor to see if s/he has any suggestions for you instead - that feedback would be much more valuable than a number from a computer. --HappyCamper 01:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Plus, the rating is reading difficulty, not writing talent. The best writers write clear and legible prose, that can be read by anyone. Newspapers, for instance, generally try for about an 8th grade level. Simple, clear writing, with no more complexity than required to get your brilliant ideas across, is best. moink 01:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, seems like moink beat me at saying what I was going to say while I was writing; that it's a readability test, not a test of the quality of writing. For comparison, feeding a famous Hemingway line into the thing, it gives a Flesch-Kincade grade level of 7. Needless to say, I don't think anyone would say Hemingway was writing at a 7th grade level. (He is, however, known as a writer who used short sentences) I wouldn't say that all the best writers write clearly and legibly (James Joyce immediately springs to mind). But for someone who isn't a master writer, writing in a simple and concise style is much harder than writing long convoluted sentences. On the other hand, being too concise doesn't make it easy either. Prose with no repetition and redundancy is rather hard to read, since you need to pay attention or you'll miss something. --BluePlatypus 01:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Avoid any temptation to go back over what you've written and throw in a few unnecessary long words just to try and sound more intellectual. The aim is clarity. Jameswilson 04:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- But certainly go back over what you've written. You can almost always say it better (clearer, simpler, more concise etc) than the way it first comes out onto the paper. JackofOz 05:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)