Talk:Asimina

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This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 11:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chaenomeles, See also

I've been unable to find a reputable source that lists "papaya" as a common name for any of the species of Chaenomeles. Some web pages are very confused, for example [1], which shows a picture of Carica papaya labelled as Chaenomeles sinensis. I would like to remove "papaya" links to and from Chaenomeles, if there are no objections.

Probably better to add a hatnote, using a phrase something like what it says in the first paragraph of this page, where it illustrates that people sometimes get certain Chaenomeles and Carica species, both called "mugua", confused (e.g. "Not to be confused with ... " (?)). Hamamelis (talk) 08:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent detective work, thanks.Nadiatalent (talk) 14:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per discussion. I've also redirected Pawpaw to Paw Paw, so someone might want to fix links to it.[2] - GTBacchus^(talk) 01:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pawpaw (Genus) → Asimina — Move/merger of 'Pawpaw (Genus)' [previously misleadingly named "Pawpaw"] with existing near-empty redirect page 'Asimina' is desirable and appropriate as 'Asimina' is the scientific name for the pawpaw genus; note that most uses of "pawpaw" refer to Asimina triloba (which has an existing page), one of the eight species of Asimina, not to the genus collectively. Use of the scientific name for the title of the genus page, rather than an awkward common name, is in keeping with common usage for Wikipedia articles about particular genera of plants. LarryMorseDCOhio (talk) 03:26, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Strong support: my vote is for using the genus name as the title, and having "Pawpaw" as a disambig page, as pawpaw is also a/the trade name for Carica papaya to Australians, who must have been shaking their heads at this for ages. Hamamelis (talk) 04:32, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support The genus name is the best title. Being British with experience of tropical regions, I had no idea that "pawpaw" was anything other than a synonym of "papaya", so I support Hamamelis: "Pawpaw" should be a disambiguation page; it should not be assumed that "pawpaw" = "papaya" is a secondary usage. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:58, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support the move to Asimina and having pawpaw point to Paw Paw (disambiguation). Just seems less confusing. Kingdon (talk) 23:26, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose but change Is there any way to call it the 'American Pawpaw' as Pawpaw is what I grew up hearing it called in the American Midwest where it grows natively. Or at least retain Pawpaw somewhere for search engines for those who wouldn't know the scientific name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.112.212.15 (talk) 11:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- It doesn't look like "American pawpaw" is actually used widely, and you too say you know 'pawpaw' as the name. And you'll still be able to find this page from 'pawpaw'. —innotata 18:59, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment: If the proposed change is made, the term 'Pawpaw' would still be searchable, either (preferably) being its own (renamed) disambiguation page, or otherwise redirecting to the present "paw paw" disambiguation page, since the two major uses of the term (Asimina and Carica) are both widespread and neither alone should have "Pawpaw" as its actual page title. Use of scientific genus and species names as article titles is common for Wikipedia botanical articles (perhaps moreso than in zoological articles), with redirects or disambiguations provided for various common names, some of which may be unique locally, but are multiply applied globally (as here). The only "pawpaw" in the American Midwest is Asimina triloba, a particular species within the genus Asimina; fruits of Carica are called papayas in temperate North American markets, avoiding any confusion with the native Asimina tree and its fruit, but Carica fruits are commonly called "pawpaws" elsewhere, since the American species is little known in these other areas and no confusion results. I've just created the previously missing redirection page for "American pawpaw" (to Asimina triloba); while these plants (or fruits) are not commonly called "American pawpaws" in North America, the term is useful in discussing the distinction of Asimina triloba from the tropical papaya/pawpaw (Carica). However, use of "American pawpaw" as an article title for the species or its genus would not be appropriate because (1) the plant is rarely called exactly that, and (2) the scientific name is the better choice, not only in keeping with Wikipedia practice and international scientific conventions, but also due to the species' numerous common names (and spellings thereof). Reconsider opposition, unless the above does not address your concerns?--LarryMorseDCOhio (talk) 20:05, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support what usage points to, clearer. —innotata 18:59, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I've no strong opinion about moving the page about the genus to Asimina. However, pending the outcome of this discussion, I have move the incorrectly titled Pawpaw (Genus) back to Pawpaw. First, Pawpaw (genus) would be the correct title if that were the form of disambiguation needed. Second, this might need to be recast as a multi-page move if the suggestion is to change Pawpaw to redirect to Asimina triloba or to move that page to Pawpaw. older ≠ wiser 17:05, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- All of the extensive species-specific content of the genus-level Asimina page Pawpaw [recently briefly called Pawpaw (Genus)] was recently removed and integrated into the species-level page for the North American pawpaw, Asimina triloba, with the present genus-level page (once again misleadingly called 'Pawpaw') having only content appropriate to a genus-level presentation, so this is still a simple proposal to rename the genus-level page to the presently preoccupied title 'Asimina' in keeping with usual Wikipedia botanical practice. Such a change will also allow the more commonly used spelling 'Pawpaw' (rather than 'Paw Paw') to be used for the pertinent disambiguation page (curently called Paw Paw), allowing for immediate distinction between the tropical papaya or "pawpaw" (Carica papaya) and the temperate North American "pawpaw" (Asimina triloba), as well as the other existing disambiguations and guidance, particularly regarding American place names. The syntax error in the title of my provisionally renamed page is hereby acknowledged, but a corrected interim renaming, while perhaps useful, is not urgent, and more permanent action (if any) can await outcome of the present discussion. --LarryMorseDCOhio (talk) 19:19, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is another "paw paw" plant in yet another genus, the mountain papaya of South America, Vasconcellea pubescens, sometimes called the "mountain paw paw". The genus Vasconcellea is in the papaya family, Caricaceae, not the custard-apple family (Annonaceae) to which Asimina belongs. I've added "mountain paw paw" to the paw paw disambiguation page. This additional botanical usage of the "pawpaw" name (under whatever spelling) adds to the need to use Asimina as the title for the article on that genus, and to use a disambiguation page to distinguish the various botanical and other usages of "pawpaw" ("paw paw", etc.).--LarryMorseDCOhio (talk) 11:40, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Discussion moved for pawpaw as species

Several discussion topics moved from Talk:Asimina to Talk:Asimina triloba because they pertain to the (North American) pawpaw as a species (Asimina triloba) rather than the eight-species pawpaw genus (Asimina), this page.--LarryMorseDCOhio (talk) 13:00, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]