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July 24

Robert Henry Lawrence, Jr.'s Purple Heart

How did Robert Henry Lawrence, Jr. qualify for a Purple Heart? He died in the line of duty, but Purple Heart#Criteria specifically states that non-enemy-related injuries, such as "accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action", "do not qualify for award". Did he see service in Vietnam not mentioned in his (rather short) article? 203.82.93.9 (talk) 01:23, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Was he actually awarded a Purple Heart? Most of the reliable sources I'm seeing don't mention it. So far, I've only found one place that does. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:28, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The very next line in the Purple Heart article states: "It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel." Presumably, if he was awarded the Purple Heart, someone considered him "deserving personnel." ^Avic _ennasis @ 03:37, 22 Tamuz 5771 / 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but the next couple of lines make it clear that there must still be some link to enemy action. "In the case of an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down by enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made." I doubt that a training accident in the course of the space race spurred on by the cold war counts. -- 203.82.93.124 (talk) 05:01, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The problem comes from a series of edits on 12 June 2007 by User:Johnisagoodman565 in which he "awarded", without reference, the purple heart to some 15 astronauts who died in accidents. Several of these edits have survived to the present. Johnisagoodman565's initial edits may have been in good faith, but he was eventually blocked for overt vandalism, and stopped editing all together the following week. Later today I'll remove the remaining unreferenced purple hearts he added unless someone here knows of any case in which an astronaut received a purple heart for a space program accident. -- 203.82.81.46 (talk) 13:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done Removed unreferenced posthumous awards of Purple Heart to Michael J. Adams, Ellison Onizuka, Michael J. Smith (astronaut), Dick Scobee, Charles Bassett, Roger B. Chaffee, and Robert Henry Lawrence, Jr.. Most of the others were repaired in 2009. -- 203.82.93.65 (talk) 15:50, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DVD Reading

Does a DVD player read from inside out, or outside in ?Froggie34 (talk) 14:47, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Data is written to a DVD (and most other optical media) starting at the center and moving outwards. Players will typically read in this order, although there's nothing stopping them from reading from the outside in (for example if you played the movie in reverse AvrillirvA (talk) 15:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reverse playing of a DVD is not achievable simply by reading from the outside in. The MPEG compression uses predictive processing techniques that are not invariant to changes in frame order, so simply reversing the order of the input frame data will not reverse the order of the decoded video frames. A complex algorithm is needed to play movies in reverse. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:57, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can actually see how it burns from the inside out if you burn a DVD-RW. The burnt spots are pretty visibly different looking than the blank ones. --Mr.98 (talk) 17:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's usually claimed Xbox (original not 360 which evidentally uses a fake TOC) DVDs are read from the outside [1] [2] [3]. Note that with a dual layer DVD, the second layer can either be outside to in or inside to out, with the outside to in for second layer config usually used for DVD video to reduce the transition time (see DVD+R DL). Nil Einne (talk) 20:09, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sherbrooke, QC bilingual population (FR-ENG) shown as 640 or 0.44% is erroneous.

I was born in Sherbrooke, QC in 1946. I noticed that the numbers given for the bilingual population (according to Canada Stats) was 640 or 0.44% !!! In Sherbrooke Innopole it does indicate that approximately 40% of the population is bilingual (FR-ENG) therefore 40% of 153,000 habitants = 61,200.

I encountered difficulty in editing the document, even with the 'help page'. So maybe someone could verify and edit so that the information is more accurate. Any native of Sherbrooke will agree that 640 bilingual persons in Sherbrooke is erroneous.

Thanks for your help. Loumi

Loumi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loumi2 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You successfully changed the number yourself and gave a clear edit summary explaining why you changed it, so well done and thank you! I think you accidentally clicked on some of the buttons at the top of the edit window that insert bits of wikitext for you - you added your signature and some empty reference tags. I've removed those for you. If you want to help improve the page further, it would be great if you can add a reference for your number. You say it came from "Sherbrooke Innopole", but I don't know what that means. Is it a website? A book? Take a look at Wikipedia:Citing sources for instructions on how to add a citation. If you get stuck, we would be happy to help (technically, you should ask at the Wikipedia:Help desk, but we can help you here too). Thanks again for helping to improve the encyclopaedia! --Tango (talk) 19:13, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Polyester PET carpet

Preamble: We purchased and installed carpet in our home in 1976; we think it is nylon but we are unsure. Carpet people (sales, consultants)are saying that the carpet we installed in 1976 is Polyester PET.

We do not believe that Polyester PET carpet was on the market in 1976. When did Polyester PET carpet appear on the market in the USA and/or Canada? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.200.241.3 (talk) 22:54, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Polyester shag carpeting was common throughout the 1970s as a cheaper alternative to nylon.[4][5][6] --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:52, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

July 25

70s Plane Crash Film

i am trying to find the title of a film that was shown in england during the 70s..it was a plane crash (american bomber )in the desert and the crew died but they were ghosts...and each one faded away when their bodies were found. the pilot being the last one to be found because his body was under the nose cone of the plane ...it was shown on itv or the bbc ..please help — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.8.168 (talk) 00:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I added a suitable title to separate. 131.111.255.9 (talk) 01:27, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds a bit like the Twilight Zone episode King Nine Will Not Return. StuRat (talk) 02:55, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably Sole Survivor --TrogWoolley (talk) 13:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

About which we have an article - Sole Survivor (1970 film). DuncanHill (talk) 13:06, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Compact digital video camera with sound

Are there any digital video cameras that also record sound yet which are also compact and not too expensive? 2.97.216.222 (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest almost any one of the Point-and-shoot cameras on the market. Most all today have HD movie capability. In fact, Nikon has 7 such cameras under $250 USD. Flip Video also makes a quality product. Schyler (one language) 23:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Flip Video does sound like an ideal choice aside from the fact, as the article notes, that it is no longer in production. A used one might be a good choice. Several Times (talk) 19:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

July 26

Multiple murders in Scandinavia - precedent

(Starting from the vast and falsifiable premise that Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Norway are "all the same anyway...") Has anything like the Norway shootings happened before? Presumably a few cases of multiple manslaughter or murder happen each year: angry man kills wife or girlfriend and self; divorced dad kills his kids. But has there ever been a mass shooting, particularly one targetting minors? Have they previously endured a multiply fatal terrorist attack? Or a crime as gruesomely planned as this, which in a way reminds me of Dr Harold Shipman? Or many missing people (maybe prostitutes, drug addicts, or runaway children), who subsequently turn out to have been killed by one man, with or without his partner's knowledge and assistance? Another way of asking this is, what sort of cultural parallels are the Norwegian people grasping for now? I am reminded of the case of Silje Raedergard: the Norwegians (?= Scandinavians) have very different attitudes towards criminal justice than the Americans or the British. BrainyBabe (talk) 06:40, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There have been a couple of multiple shootings at schools in Finland, albeit with much lower death tolls - Jokela and Kauhajoki. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:50, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As well as the above, List of murderers by number of victims mentions the Swede Anders Hansson who killed 26 or 27 people in a hospital (though I can't find any English-language references)[7][8]; Arnfinn Nesset, a Norwegian nurse who killed over 20 patients; and Mattias Flink, a Swedish spree killer with 7 victims. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is some more detail about Hansson - described as "an odd and lonely person with learning-disabilities" - at this forum. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am not aware that the Norwegian people are grasping for any cultural parallels. The physical scale of the car bomb damage and death toll are, when related to Oslo's much smaller population than New York, comparable to the September 11 attacks. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:47, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And a single murder in Coldfoot, Alaska would, when realted to Coldfoot's much smaller population then Japan, be much more devistating then the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. What is your point in comparison here? Googlemeister (talk) 21:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Which of those events has anything to do with Scandinavia? What is your point? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Googlemeister asked first. μηδείς (talk) 22:49, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reminding me to answer Googlemeister's question. The OP asked about a precedent to the multiple murders in Scandinavia. I wished to point out that one finds a physical precedent in the 9/11 attacks, but it is only physical. Culturally the attacks are very different. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Try this CBC News Interactive. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 21:04, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

tracfone's

i have a tracfone that i need some advise about so i can get my problem fix. the problem is that i have 44569 minutes and no service days left the phones main screen says that my service days have been disabled so what do i do? thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.31.196.99 (talk) 09:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have tried contacting your provider? They are far more likely to know what is going on than we are. --Tango (talk) 12:05, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Go to tracfone.com. On the contact page, there is a fill-in form for questions and comments, including service. Or there is also a toll-free (in the U.S.) telephone number to call. — Michael J 12:11, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I take it you really should have more days and far fewer minutes ? Sounds like a bug to me, possibly a bad SIM card. You can call them, but they will likely want proof.

Do you, by any chance, have the last message from them saying how many days and minutes were added ? I always keep those. You could forward that message on to them, and they could add those days to that date to figure a minimum you should now have.

But, of course, there's no accounting for the days you already had when the last card was added. However, if you can offer some proof, they may believe you for the additional days.

I also suspect they will need to send you a new SIM card for your cell phone, or possibly a whole new phone. StuRat (talk) 22:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anal sex advice

How do you make it painless? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.18.179 (talk) 12:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read our article anal sex? BrainyBabe (talk) 14:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nina Hartley has a book that deals with this. You might want to check it out. Dismas|^(talk) 01:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Try not doing it!--85.211.131.158 (talk) 10:14, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Houstons Birthplace Marker?

I know that Sam Houston was born in Virginia, but is there a marker or anything of that sort on or near his birthplace? I am asking this as he was born in the Mountain regions and not in an actual town. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.226.155.171 (talk) 14:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In our article on Sam Houston, there's a photo of the marker. More information about the monument can be found here. It is located on U.S. Route 11, 5.3 miles north of Lexington. It is on the east side of the highway, after the underpass for Interstate 81/64, exit 195. Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:25, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hrvatska pošta

The logo of the Croatian Post Office (Hrvatska pošta) can be seen at [9]. This looks to me like a stylized form of the Hebrew letters פש, but it seems unlikely that Hebrew letters would be used. Is there any info on the origin of this logo? --Taejo|대조 15:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like a stylised post horn, but this is just a guess. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:12, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The post horn page agrees with your guess (without any citation, though). --Taejo|대조 15:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh the frustration of the postman who finds his horn gorn. (video) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could a "Writ of Mandamus" be obtained by ACLU to Force the US Congress to Raise the Debt Limit Ceiling?

A writ of mandamus or mandamus (which means "we command" in Latin), or sometimes mandate, is the name of one of the prerogative writs in the common law, and is "issued by a superior court to compel a lower court or a government officer to perform mandatory or purely ministerial duties correctly".[1] Mandamus is a judicial remedy which is in the form of an order from a superior court to any government subordinate court, corporation or public authority to do or forbear from doing some specific act which that body is obliged under law to do or refrain from doing, as the case may be, and which is in the nature of public duty and in certain cases of a statutory duty.[2] It cannot be issued to compel an authority to do something against statutory provision. Mandamus may be a command to do an administrative action or not to take a particular action, and it is supplemented by legal rights. In the American legal system it must be a judicially enforceable and legally protected right before one suffering a grievance can ask for a mandamus. A person can be said to be aggrieved only when he is denied a legal right by someone who has a legal duty to do something and abstains from doing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 001Gberg (talk • contribs) 15:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe if the Supreme Court issued one. Googlemeister (talk) 15:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. Forcing Congress to pass legislation would be a clear violation of the seperation of powers. Hot Stop talk-contribs 15:18, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) No. If you read the article mandamus, it only applies when the government official has a duty to do a certain thing. Congress does not have a duty to raise the debt limit, even if it would be a good thing to do so. Issuing such a writ would violate the separation of powers. Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Failure of Congress to raise the debt ceiling could violate section 8 of article 1 of the Constitution, and the the Supreme Court could declare the legislation that created a debt ceiling unconstitutional, but only if it was the only way to repay existing debt. That is not the case here. Googlemeister (talk) 18:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could you elaborate on how specifically it would violate it? —Akrabbim^talk 19:57, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One of the items in section 8 art 1 is

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States", which coupled with, "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof." could possibly lead to the debt ceiling being unconstitutional, but only if it is set in such a way as to prevent borrowing to pay for servicing already existing debt. For that to happen, debt payments would probably need to be around 100% of government revenues, and by that point, it is probably an academic question since the whole system is already failing. Googlemeister (talk) 20:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Still not following you, but just because Congress has the power to do something doesn't mean they have to do it. In fact, they could do nothing for an entire term if they chose. Hot Stop talk-contribs 20:28, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, even if the debt ceiling were unconstitutional, the remedy would not be to issue a writ of mandamus forcing Congress to pass a law raising it. A court would just declare the debt ceiling invalid. Larry Tribe recently wrote (what I found to be) a convincing op-ed in the NYT about how the debt ceiling is not unconstitutional.[10] I'm not sure if there are prominent legal minds on the other side. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Legal systems don't like dealing with hypotheticals which is all I suggest that my scenario is, so actual case law would be unlikely. Basically, SCOTUS would need to view the second quote as manditory. Googlemeister (talk) 20:33, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's clearly not mandatory - the text of the constitution says it's a power they have (something they can do), not something they must do. The drafters of the US Constitution knew how to make things mandatory--take the census, for example ("The actual Enumeration shall be made..."). They didn't make this mandatory. It also makes no sense that "mak[ing] all laws ... necessary and proper" would be mandatory, because who decides what is necessary and proper? That would be a political question that the courts wouldn't touch. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:47, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No one really knows because this has never happened. I think it's common in states where the state constitution requires the government to do this or that to get a writ of mandamus from a court ordering the country to do that thing. If this were to end up in court, I don't think the ACLU would be the plaintiff because they don't generally deal with fiscal issues. It's more likely it would be an owner of Treasuries that would sue the government. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a big difference between the executive and the legislature in these matters. It is very common for a constitution to require the executive to do certain things and a writ of mandamus can be used to force them to do it. I don't think it is at all common for a constitution to require the legislature to pass certain legislation. There would be no point in such a clause - just put whatever would have been in the legislation directly into the constitution. --Tango (talk) 18:15, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Courts have required legislatures to do stuff on occasion, such as when they rule that a state isn't fulfilling its constitution's requirements on education. This happened in New Jersey, for example. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The ultra-rightwing contingent of the Court, who put GW Bush in the White House,("Bush v Gore) and who issued the "Citizens United" ruling on behalf of corporations, are extremely unlikely to get in the way of the Tea Party zealots in Congress. A writ of mandamus is more likely to be issued by a judge to make an official do something he is required by statute to do, but he just doesn't want to do. An example might be to force a Clerk to issue a marriage license for a gay couple in a state where such marriages have become legal, or to force a racist Clerk to register a minority person to vote, or to force a city to issue a building permit for a mosque which meets all legal requirements, or to force a school district to register minority students to attend public schools. Edison (talk) 04:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You'll notice that the article I linked above is by one of the country's leading liberal scholars. It's not just "ultra-rightwing" judges who would refuse to issue a writ of mandamus like this- no one would, because it would make no sense. (There's no way this case would ever get to the Supreme Court anyways - it would undoubtedly lose in the lower court, and SCOTUS would never take the appeal.) The best argument for the unconstitutionality of the debt limit is based on the 14th amendment, not Congress's enumerated powers. That argument is at least somewhat plausible. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Southern California corporations

Need a list of phone numbers and addresses for Southern California corporations based in the Inland empire, LA and Orange Counties. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Belle voix (talk • contribs) 17:52, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

did you try the phone book? --Jayron32 18:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's a phone book, and why would anyone with internets have one? Oh, right, they throw them on your doorstep without asking... --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you live in the US, you can now opt out of receiving phone books. Save a tree today![11] Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ask your local public library if they offer ReferenceUSA, Hoover's, or similar directories. There's no comprehensive free resource. Maybe you can tell us a little more about what you want the directory for, and we might be able to help you more effectively. 99.17.204.52 (talk) 21:15, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

rhubarb

Not sure if I am doing this the correct way, but here goes! I have been told that rhubarb (stalks) should not be used for consumpsion after the end of July as it is a bit dodgy healthwise. Is this so? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.108.91 (talk) 18:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where? I've never heard such a story; the leaves are always poisonous, but the growing season (as the article points out) varies widely depending on climate. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:11, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Small quibble, but the leaves are more specifically toxic. Googlemeister (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair 'nuff. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:43, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps someone confused rhubarb with pokeweed? The two share some very superficial similarities, especially late in the season, where both have red stems and deep green leaves; though I daresay pokeweed is significantly larger and bushier. Poke salad is a known foodstuff, but requires careful preparation due to the inherant toxicity of pokeweed; usually only young poke is used so perhaps that is the source of the late-season prohibition here? Just a WAG. --Jayron32 19:54, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if this is because the stalks, if not used when young, grow tough and inedible? There is, apparently some oxalic acid in the stalks to start with - it's what gives rhubarb its characteristic acidity. In the leaves it is concentrated in toxic proportions. It's possible therefore that older stalks also have higher concentrations of oxalic acid, but not as much as in the leaves. --TammyMoet (talk) 20:04, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find any support for that theory online, but it's hard to prove a negative. I'm originally from Alaska, where there's a late growing season. Pretty sure we ate rhubarb picked after the end of the July all the time, but I guess I can't be positive. (Also, I suppose the deadline for picking could depend on the climate?) Anyways, even the leaves aren't that toxic - according to our article, you'd have to eat 5 kg of them to reach a fatal dose. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:38, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I eat new shoots of rhubarb picked in August and even at the beginning of September. The taste gradually changes as the season progresses, and earlier stalks certainly have a better flavour. Dbfirs 06:51, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why are they sold with the leaves on, if they're at least inadvisable for consumption? Why aren't the leaves removed prior to sale? Why do we have to pay for stuff we have to throw out? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Try chopping the leaves off some stalks of rhubarb and then leaving the stalks for a few days before cooking. The ends where you've lopped the leaves will be dry and tough. DuncanHill (talk) 21:17, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In the cooler climate where I live, rhubarb leaves are always removed before sale. Any slight drying out can be remedied by standing the stalks with their root ends in water for a few hours. Dbfirs 06:51, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, in the US (currently New England, previously Alaska), I've never seen rhubarb sold with the leaves still on. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:38, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What makes you think you pay extra for the leaves? If anything, you would have to pay extra for someone to go to the effort of cutting them off. --Tango (talk) 21:51, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Produce is typically sold by weight. If the leaves are on, you're paying for them. However, if the leaves were cut off previously, I assume wholesalers (and therefore grocers) would just charge more for the stalks to compensate. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, they usually charge MORE than enough per pound to compensate for the labor. Taking a different item for comparison; I can buy a whole chicken for about one dollar per pound. If I buy boneless/skinless breasts of chicken, I pay 4 dollars per pound. In order to break even, that would imply that my chicken was 3/4 unusable material, that is patently not true. When I buy the chicken, even if I don't use the bones (not true, bones are very useful, but bear with me) it is STILL less expensive per pound of meat, by far, to buy the chicken whole and butcher it myself. --Jayron32 01:48, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But how much is your time worth? I assume the packaged chicken producers have to pay their staff. Also, are you allowing for wear and tear on your tools, and how much does it cost to dispose of the bones? DuncanHill (talk) 11:51, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am quite confused by your response. Are you actually claiming that I have some moral obligation to buy pre-butchered chicken just because the company that sells it needs to pay its employees? Why, in your eyes, am I not allowed to purchase a whole chicken and butcher it myself? Why do you insist that I bear some personal responsibility to the employees of that company that I be compelled to buy pre-butchered meats from them, instead of purchasing the availible whole chicken which is availible right next to it? I am thoroughly confused by your stance on this... --Jayron32 16:46, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reading this, I think you are all violently agreeing with each other, but without noticing it ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:04, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I stand apart (as I am wont to do as I pass through this vale of woe). I never said we pay extra for the leaves, per Tango. I asked why we are charged for something whose only value is compost fodder. It's essentially no different from paying for oranges by weight: we pay for the skin, which (apart from orange zest) is routinely discarded (not into the compost, I hope, because citrus is too acidic for composts), but in that case it's inappropriate to remove the skin and just sell the pulp, unless it's canned. However, that constraint doesn't apply to rhubarb, because the leaves can easily be removed without doing any damage to the edible stalks. The growers can keep the leaves and use them for their own mulch or whatever, and we consumers only pay for what we can actually use. Win-win. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 12:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, so long as you're prepared to pay for the time and effort involved in removing the leaves, that is. DuncanHill (talk) 12:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Even at my exalted salary (*cough*), the cost of my time in spending a few seconds removing rhubarb leaves is significantly less than the cost of purchasing them. But that still reinforces my point. I have to pay money for the leaves, then I have to pay in time (= money) to get rid of them. What a dumb and pointless process. I'd rather not get the leaves at all, and not pay at all, than pay twice for the privilege of throwing out that which I've just bought. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or you can pay in money for someone else to cut them off. DuncanHill (talk) 20:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My point earlier is was that you basically have to pay for the leaves in money no matter what--whether you're getting them in the supermarket or not. A rhubarb plant will cost X to grow. The buyer is going to have to pay Y over the cost of production for profit margins, distribution, etc. No one is going to buy the leaves once they're cut off. So the leafless stalks should cost X+Y, and the leafy stalks should cost X+Y. If rhubarb is priced by weight, you would expect the leafless stalks to be more expensive to compensate (and probably more than compensate, because you have the new expense of cutting off the leaves). Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) In the UK you can get rhubarb without leaves in supermarkets, and rhubarb with leaves in smaller shops and street markets. Same with carrots. Fresh shiny leaves make the rhubarb look good for the customers. In gardens where rhubarb is grown out of doors, you get fewer new stems as the summer goes on and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that there was more oxalic acid in them. The North of England is known for its forced rhubarb in early spring, finished in sheds without light. Rhubarb in supermarkets is presumably mass grown in identical conditions throughout the year. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:57, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. I remember the childhood mythology of Indian Inkweed berries being poisonous, and remember assuming the plant's warnificatory coloration color confirmed this. Reading the article on pokeweed was enlightening. μηδείς (talk) 03:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

July 27

Implied Warranty of ---HABITABILITY

I would appreciate having any of the legal citations statements or sentences in and to the above article. Virginia is the main State I am concerned about. Or, the locations of legal articles and examples of the use of this legal theory against landlords. My complete contact data is:

Kenneth L. Waldron <redacted for editor's protection> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.171.67.66 (talk) 02:40, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have redacted your contact info -- it's not a good idea to post that sort of info in such a public forum. Looie496 (talk) 03:40, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Googling "implied warranty of habitability, Virginia" gave me the following page. It contains many references and statements that may be useful to you. Bielle (talk) 03:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DANGEROUS NOODLES!!!

I have heard that noodles especially sold in India (I DO NOT WANT TO NAME THEM)can cause harmful diseases like Cancer because of the spice powder used in them.Is it really true...??? Please refer this content...Doctor's view is appreciated. THANK YOU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.236.22 (talk) 11:28, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Its down to which colouring agent they use. See Sudan I. The UK the Food Standards Agency also states: “At the levels found in these foods the risk is likely to be very small” --Aspro (talk) 12:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you want a doctor's view, I suggest you ask your doctor. You have no way of verifying the credentials of some random person on the internet. --Tango (talk) 18:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia does NOT provide medical advice. It's against the rules. Some spices can potentially be toxic in very high concentrations; peppermint is one such spice. I'm afraid India doesn't really have an equivalent to the United States' Food and Drug Administration, so information about the contents of this particular product are not going to be possible to turn up. i kan reed (talk) 19:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...any food can potentially increase or decrease your overall risk of developing cancer by a very small factor. Try searching "noodles and cancer" on Google Scholar. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Levels of vodka distillation

So it is the end of our archaeological dig and so I decided to get our assistant area supervisors treats. One of them, a huge 6' 2" fellow whom we affectionately refer to as "The Bear Jew", I got a bottle of quintuple-distilled vodka. The comments from others were that "he is going to get fucking hammered." This leads me to believe that there is something about this level of distillation that makes it more potent than less distilled (triple and such). I know nothing about vodka, so could someone enlighten me as to the different levels of distillation and what are the differences between them? What is the difference between triple and quintuple except the obvious {number of times they have been distilled}, and why is it this quintuple is going to most likely get this fine fellow drunk enough to do karaoke more so than a lower level (by which I mean make him very very drunk)? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 14:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You need to go by what ABV or Proof percentage is printed on the label to guide you to the strength, because although 4x distillation can produce high ethanol concentrations, the main aim of multiple distillations is to get a cleaner taste. Therefore, some 4x is diluted down again. SeeVodka#Distilling_and_filtering After many years of practice I too can not drink pure XXXX vodka without getting hammered, but as practice make perfect - I will persist. --Aspro (talk) 15:44, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if it has a cleaner taste, it may just make it easier/more pleasurable to drink more of it, and therefore get more drunk. —Akrabbim^talk 20:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Basically marketing nonsense. Pure vodka is simply pure alcohol--no one drinks it for the "taste'. Beyond the cheapest brands there is no noticeable betterment by repeated distilling. μηδείς (talk) 03:27, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are misunderstand the capabilities of the distillation process. Cheap American style vodka has no taste or aroma because it has been filtered out with activated charcoal. It is only fit only for teenagers to add to their lime cordials. It is not the distillation processes that does this. Subject a good brandy/whiskey/rum etc. to the same treatment and it would come out tasting like cheap American style vodka too. In Europe we often drink vodka cold and straight, in which case we want some of the flavours preserved. Depending on what its first brewed from, 3x or 4x distillation does this just fine. --Aspro (talk) 10:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Pure" vodka is usually about 40% alcohol, and yes, some people drink it for the taste. thx1138 (talk) 20:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Napoleon, Julius Caesar and Jesus

It is said that Napoleon's religion teacher told him that Julius Caesar, whom Napoleon idolised, burns in Hell because he was not a Christian. How could Caesar have been a Christian when he died before Jesus was born? Was the religion teacher aware of this and using it to his advantage? Is this story even true? JIP | Talk 17:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Who says that? Christian teaching (at least in some denominations, I can't guarantee it is true for all of them) is that, following his death on the cross, Jesus "descended to the dead" and rescued the righteous that had come before him and hadn't had the chance to go to heaven. See Harrowing of Hell. --Tango (talk) 18:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So Jesus visited Hell and said "Anyone who believes in me and converts to Christianity can go to Heaven and be happy for eternity"? That's swell, but all this still assumes that before Christianity was founded, all dead people automatically went to Hell because there wasn't a correct religion for them to convert to. They had to wait anything from days to tens of thousands of years suffering Hell's torments until Jesus came along and said that a correct religion has finally been invented. If all this is true, then God mustn't be very logical-minded. =) JIP | Talk 18:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have maybe more trouble getting my head around the idea of idolizing Julius Caesar, who by my lights was a thug. But then we are talking about Napoleon....

Anyway, I don't believe any mainstream school of Christianity has ever taught that the righteous dead before Jesus were under punishment before the harrowing of Hell, though I'm not sure of that. One notion is that they were not in Heaven, but rather in a nice section of Hades known as the bosom of Abraham (Hades != Hell; Hades is just the abode of the dead). --Trovatore (talk) 19:03, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Jesus referred to Hades (Sheol) and Gehenna. When Christians encountered Germanic pagans, Hel (being) was amalgamated into Satan. Schyler (one language) 20:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Christian views of "Hell" are not as simple as "The guy with the pitchfork and horns pokes you while you burn", that's kinda the cartoony version of Hell. There is a wide variance among even mainstream Christian denominations over what Hell is, who goes there, and when they go there. If you want to know what the Christian view of the afterlife is from a theological perspective (as opposed to the simplistic view), the article Christian eschatology has some really good indepth reading on the issue. --Jayron32 20:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know whether the story is true, but you should note that basic Christian theology is that every human since Adam and Eve has deserved to go to Hell, due to inheriting the sin of Adam and Eve. It is only the sacrifice of Christ that saves those who have faith, not any sort of acquired merit. According to that doctrine, if pre-Christian pagans all went to Hell, it is only what they deserved. (Dante, by the way, placed the righteous pagans in the "first circle" of Hell, where they do not experience torments.) Looie496 (talk) 21:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Back to the story itself. This is supposed to have happened at the military school at Brienne-le-Château. In Napoleon: A Political Life by Steven Englund: "Even the Catholic teaching orders could not stop themselves: their monks were constantly accenting the stories and characters of Plutarch, Nepos (author of On Illustrious Men), Livy, Virgil, Cicero, etc., while at the same time ruing that these pre-Christian souls were all consigned to hell or limbo (a contradiction that sufficed to make the adolescent Napoleon lose his faith)." And in A History of Christianity by Paul Johnson: "Napoleon claimed that he personally had lost his faith by the time he was eleven. This occurred after learning that Caesar and Cato 'the most virtuous men of antiquity would burn in eternal flames for not having practiced a religion which they knew nothing.'" Johnson leaves no room for the possibility that the story is apocryphal, but precisely the same story is told about Voltaire, so take it with a grain of salt. In any case, a relevant article is virtuous pagan. LANTZY ^TALK 21:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All this talk about what Hell is like got me thinking, how do people know it? I don't think anyone who has actually been in Hell has come back to tell what it's like. Have people just invented all this? This then leads into another (possibly unrelated) questions, how do people know what gods are like if they have never met them? Of course Jesus and Muhammed and the like were real people (although whether they had divine powers is up to debate), but how have people figured out all the details about such guys as Zeus, Odin, etc.? JIP | Talk 15:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The theological answer to your question is at Revelation. In summation, people know about pure faith-based information (like the nature of heaven and hell, or the status of Jesus, or the details of the Book of Mormon or the Quran or other texts) because God revealed the information to people. How did Moses know what God's law was supposed to be? God told him. How did Mohammad know to write the Quran? God told him. --Jayron32 15:52, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

July 28

jim and mary mccartney article

I am writing to inquire whether Sir Paul's father was one of the witnesses in the case of R v Wallace, the famous Liverpool murder case from 1931; I had heard this many years ago, but neither the Wallace nor James McCartney articles mention this information. It is basically a sidelight to both stories, but interesting from a "who'da thunk it" standpoint. Has SPM ever referenced this?Kleegish (talk) 07:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One of Wallace's chess league friends was called McCartney, whom Wallace beat on the fatal night. However unless Google Books is hiding it, he doesn't seem to have been called as a witness at the trial and none of the books about the case make a link with Jim McCartney father of Paul. It may just be a coincidence of a surname and a city. Also note that Jim McCartney was a working class man in the cotton trade and that in 1931 social class divisions would not usually have led him to socialise with the middle class insurance salesman William Herbert Wallace. Sam Blacketer (talk) 09:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I didn't know about his mate at the chess club; I was referring to having heard that when the Old Bill canvassed the tram stops between Wallace's home and Menlove Av, James McCartney verified that he had spoken to Wallace, who had asked him the quickest route to Menlove Av. Of course, this tended to corroborate Wallace's alibi, so of course the prosecution didn't call McCartney to give evidence; I didn't mean to imply that he had done. It was the fact that Wallace had appeared to ask several people for directions that raised greater suspicion of him than the coppers already had; they thought he was trying to be too conspicuously establishing the alibi. Of course, this implies that either Mrs Wallace was dead when he left, or Wallace had a confederate. The police went with the former because they couldn't turn up anything on the latter. Say-- do you think we can get UCOS on the case?Kleegish (talk) 13:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WBC and the Norway attacks

The Westboro Baptist Church surpassed my expectations with its reaction to the 2011 Norway attacks, claiming that the killings were justified because God was avenging an entirely unrelated event in the US Army: [12]. Are these people for real? Have they no shame? Has there ever been a tragedy so horrific that the WBC would express their condolence instead of celebrating it? 194.100.223.164 (talk) 12:32, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They are for real. Their beliefs are on the extreme edges of Christianity, promoting God as jealous, vengeful and random above loving his creation (Disclaimer I am not a Christian) -- Q Chris (talk) 12:57, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have no disagreement with this characterisation of their version of Christianity (to which I, too, do not adhere). In addition, however, some have put forward evidence and arguments to suggest that, aside from their religious beliefs, the family at the centre of the WBC are primarily engaging in a deliberate legal strategy, in which by being outrageously but legally provocative, they goad their targets into understandable but illegal retaliation, and then profit from sueing them. More specific details can doubtless be found via the usual search engines. 90.201.110.2 (talk) 13:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If the WBC is a Christian group at all, then they are probably toward the extreme edge of fundamentalism, spewing hate over countries and world events. The Norway terror attacks themselves remind me of the Oklahoma City bombing, or the 2010 Austin plane crash. Extremism, violent or otherwise, is present in all religious and ideological belief systems. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 20:46, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pricing antique car, in pieces.

Hello, I'm trying to roughly asses the value of a car that I've inherited. It is a 1939 Chevrolet coupe, consisting at minimum of full body, full frame, four wheels, all in good condition (maybe good end of 'fair'). I may have engine, seats, etc, but not sure until I can investigate in person. Can anyone help me find a baseline price for the body, frame and wheels? Estimates for a complete car in pieces are also welcome. I've done some searching and only found people selling small parts of this car, not all/most of it in pieces. Thanks in advance, SemanticMantis (talk) 15:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With something that unique, you will almost certainly need a professional appraisal from an appraiser specialising in that market. You have something that has almost no value to the vast majority of people, but probably a great deal of value to a few. You're essentially paying the appraiser to find "the few."12.186.80.1 (talk) 16:44, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can see a variety of '39 Chevys on eBay. Complete running examples run from $10k-35k. I'd say a restoration project like the one you describe would be worth about $2-3k, depending the condition of the parts. --Daniel 17:14, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, this is the kind of educated guess I was hoping for. Further thoughts still appreciated! SemanticMantis (talk) 18:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

saltires in Japan

Watching Kurosawa's Drunken Angel I noticed, not for the first time, that one panel of a paper door was marked with a saltire. Why? —Tamfang (talk) 17:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some shōji do not have catches on both sides of the frame. These shoji have catches, but these don't. One side of the door is entirely covered by paper and you cannot use the mutins to slide the door from the covered side. See this. I think this is what you watched in the film. It's a catch to slide the door from the covered side. This might be more understandable, but beware of the music. The catch uses two sheets of paper, so it's more durable. The covered side paper should be cut X and paste the four triangles to the paper on the other side. Oda Mari (talk) 09:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Government Spending

Does anyone in the Government keep tract of the value, success, worth and accomplishments all of the official “Entitlement” programs the Government fosters and supports? Does anyone actually ever summarize these programs with published results that people can view and understand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 001Gberg (talk • contribs) 18:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What is the highest paid (individual’s) hourly salary amount that is paid in the US? Could the Fed Trade Commission enter the arena to dictate certain salaries are excessive in light of money & value, compared to hourly worth of services provided? Compensation and benefits packages over 300K seem excessive. Could such salaries ever be outlawed here in the US? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 001Gberg (talk • contribs) 18:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We can't respond usefully to a barrage of questions like this. Which one is the most important to you? Looie496 (talk) 19:13, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How much is the cost to the American public for the unresolved massive US Immigration Problem? How much is the cost of Public Assistance and Public Welfare costing the American Public? How much will this cost increase should the economy continue to stagger along without sufficient growth? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 001Gberg (talk • contribs) 18:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I wrote above, there is no way to give a useful response to a barrage of questions, especially when they are so broad. I wonder, though, if you are really even interested in an answer, or are just soapboxing. Looie496 (talk) 19:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Many of these questions call for opinion and/or speculation, and are therefore inappropriate here. —Tamfang (talk) 03:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States should answer one question. United States welfare state may also be useful. As to whether the US could impose a maximum salary cap, if a minimum wage is deemed constitutional, maybe a maximum would be too, but as far as I know this has never been implemented or seriously discussed, so there is unlikely to be a clear answer. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:33, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You may be interested in this website (http://www.deathandtaxesposter.com/). In terms of some of your questions it will show the vast difference in budgets made available between the various departments - in particular - and trying not to too political - how different the budget is for public assistance/welfare compared to departments such as Defense. ny156uk (talk) 19:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and obviously there are huge amounts of research into the effectiveness of different welfare programmes, but as others have noted it's a huge area so you'd need to be more specific. As a start of 10,000 here's a google scholar search http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=effectiveness+of+US+welfare+system&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart ny156uk (talk) 20:02, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Connecting TV, VCR, and STB with SCART

Here in the UK I have a TV, a VCR, and a set top box. The TV has two SCART sockets and one coaxial socket. The VCR has two SCART sockets and two coaxial sockets. The set top box has one SCART socket and two coaxial sockets.

Does anyone have any idea of the best way to connect them? I would like to use the VCR to play or record. Bear in mind that analogue is being switched off soon. 92.24.133.177 (talk) 18:51, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you want the VCR to be able to record digital TV, it needs to be connected to the set top box. That means your only option is to connect the set top box to connect the coaxial cable from your aerial to the set top box, then connect the set top box to the VCR by SCART and then the VCR to the TV by SCART. --Tango (talk) 21:46, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. This is a common set-up and it works fine for me. Unfortunately scart connectors have design flaws so it's worth ensuring you get good quality connectors and that they are perfectly aligned horizontally (I have a deck of cards supporting the cable) and pushed firmly home.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This connection diagram (from Sony) shows a typical recommended connection layout similar to your situation (just ignore the DVD). Those connections will let you record and watch different things so long as one is on analogue and the other is the output from the set top box. After analogue is switched off, you will only be able to record what you are watching from the set top box. VCR playback will be through the SCART channel (often called AV1) or through the analogue signal as output by the VCR (often channel 39). Astronaut (talk) 12:05, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Declaration of war

Why was Austria-Hungary's declaration of war against Serbia written in French rather than German or Hungarian? --134.10.113.198 (talk) 19:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

French was the language of international diplomacy in Europe at that time. thx1138 (talk) 20:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Declaration of war is the ultimate act of non-diplomacy, but the forms of these things are still often considered important. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Zhou Enlai said that "All diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means." Saturday Evening Post (March 27, 1954) (A play upon the famous maxim of Clausewitz: "War is the continuation of politics by other means.") From Wikiquote. Rmhermen (talk) 02:46, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Along with that, it's often safer to translate such things into others' languages, to avoid ambiguity. There are a number of cases where ambiguity about translating into another's language has led to diplomatic issues — notably the interpretation of Japan's mokusatsu. Translating into a "neutral" language can resolve some of these sorts of questions. --Mr.98 (talk) 23:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

French language#Current situation mentions its use in diplomacy briefly, but I'm not sure if there's a better article somewhere. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:37, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An equally brief mention at Lingua Franca. Alansplodge (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible Jesus wasn't real?

Is it possible Jesus wasn't real? I mean, they never found his body or his grave. And I don;t bewlive everything the bible says. 20:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's possible. thx1138 (talk) 20:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, we're only certain about the existence of a small smattering of people from that time period. There don't appear to be any written documents from his lifetime endorsing his existence. Early bibles as we know them didn't really appear for about 3 centuries. But then, what are you going to do with a body that supposedly just vanished into thin air? i kan reed (talk) 20:09, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To be picky, none of the biblical accounts have Jesus vanishing into thin air. Luke is the only gospel that's very specific about it, and has him rising bodily to heaven. Not that that changes the evidentiary point that the accounts are not subject to falsification by failing to find his body, no matter how thoroughly you look. (On the other hand they could be falsified, at least in their most literal meaning, by finding his body.) --Trovatore (talk) 21:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We have an article about this issue, Historical Jesus. Looie496 (talk) 20:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Jesus myth theory. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:23, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whoa, that Historical Jesus article is full of really really bad sources. The evidence is not nearly as credible as that article would have you believe. There's a lot of things stated as historical facts there that are more like "likely interpretations assuming Jesus was real". i kan reed (talk) 21:09, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just to summarize, the overwhelming consensus opinion (you'll see at those articles) is that he did exist. Staecker (talk) 20:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, they haven't found the body or grave of Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Earhart either. That in itself is not a valid reason to doubt someone's existence. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'd say it's a valid reason to doubt. It's relevant, at least. It's just not terribly compelling in and of itself. — Lomn 21:07, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of a body is valid reason to doubt they're dead, it's not valid reason to doubt they never existed at all. There's abundant evidence of the at least onetime existence of both Earhart and Hoffa. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And, given that one of the fundamental claims of Christianity is that Jesus is not dead, and his body left his tomb permanently on Easter Sunday, this is a pretty important distinction! 86.164.73.187 (talk) 23:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I should probably also link to Church of the Holy Sepulchre, for completeness. 86.164.73.187 (talk) 23:24, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is important. While the lack of his body does not in itself disprove his existence, equally it can never be used to prove any parts of "he lived, died, was resurrected and ascended to heaven". It's essentially irrelevant, because there are millions of people who were known to exist but whose bodies are no longer locatable; the presence of a body is not what we use to verify their life and works. Finding Jesus's bones now would more than upset 2,000 years of Christian teaching, but failure to find them neither proves anything about him nor disproves anything about him. It's all down to faith, as the churches have always said. On that score, at least, they're dead right. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 23:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also see Tacitus on Christ for independant evidence written less than a century after the Crucifixion. This recent thread which discusses the same issue, has some other thoughts. Alansplodge (talk) 15:37, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to leverage a disability to get my student loans canceled?

Having Asperger's/Schizotypal Personality Disorder, it would be harder for me to land a job as recruiters are trained to pick-up all the telltale signs of mental disorders.

This way, I could be left high-and-dry on student loans. However, could I possibly use my disability to make a successful case of canceling my loans? --70.179.165.67 (talk) 22:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see that your IP geolocates to the United States. Federal student loans can be discharged for "total and permanent disability"[13] but it would be extremely unlikely that you would qualify. It means you would not be able to find gainful employment in any field whatsoever. As I'm sure you know, many people with Asperger's can be successful professionally, and the disability standard seems to mean that you wouldn't even be able to work at McDonald's (and I'm sure low-end recruiters are not trained to pick up on these things). I don't know anything about Schizotypal Personality Disorder, so I can't really comment about that, but it sounds like you could do some sort of work. Considering it sounds like you have managed through college, I think it would be impossible to make the case that you're totally unemployable. (As a side note, I think you have more faith in HR folks' abilities than is probably warranted.) I imagine that any private loans you may have do not even have this very narrow exemption, but it would depend on the terms of the loan agreement. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:39, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is also worth noting that student loans are among the most difficult loans to discharge in the US. They are the only loan category that cannot be discharged by bankruptcy, for example. I find it really fairly impossible to believe that someone who graduated college could have been considered to be completely unemployable from a legal standpoint. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well for a pre-existing condition. I imagine there are some possibilities for injuries or other medical conditions causing total and permanent disability after graduation although it would probably have to be rather bad (i.e. even Asperger's/Schizotypal Personality Disorder arising after graduation is unlikely to be sufficient) Nil Einne (talk) 02:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Even death doesn't necessarily guarantee you'll be rid of a student loan; I don't remember the exact details, but I've heard of people's estates paying off loans. My contract basically says I'd have to be in a permanent coma before they'd even consider discharging my loan. My only consolation is that, if many depictions of heaven, purgatory, and hell are correct, usurers get sent to the 8th level of hell. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 04:46, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 prohibits discrimination by disability in employment in many situations, and it includes mental as well as physical conditions. So if you can't get a job you could try suing companies and get a cash windfall that way. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:42, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the same thing at all, but there was an interesting article on "student loan insurance" in the NY Times a few days ago, which pointed out that mental conditions are usually not covered under them (which is different than a lot of other insurance, and potentially discriminatory).

I'm sure there are plenty of workshops, online resources and books to help people gain employment and/or deal with specific mental conditions, especially when it is not particularly debilitating. Try some online practice Psychometric Tests. I'm sure Temple Grandin would have some books, particularly for Aspies. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 20:19, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I do collections for the U.S. Dept. of Justice on federally guaranteed student loans. I was surprised to see a question in my specialty area just glaring at me. I would suggest you try to pay these off. They are generally non-dischargeable, they last forever, and it is not likely you would be successful upon a discharge exemption claim, at least based on what you have stated, though I can't discount that your disability could be much more severe than it appears.

There is no statute of limitations. The 1991 amendments to the Higher Education Act of 1965 (Higher Education Technical Amendments of 1991, Pub. L. No. 102-026, § 3, 105 Stat. 123, 124 (codified at 20 USCS §1091a) eliminated the statute of limitations as to federally insured student loans, retroactively abrogated prior applicable statute of limitations, and even served to revive expired actions. See generally Lockhart v. United States, 546 U.S. 142 (2005);
As to dischargeability, 11 USCS § 523(a)(8) provides that student-loan debts guaranteed by a governmental unit are not included in a federal bankruptcy court's general discharge order unless excepting the debt from the order would impose an "undue hardship" on the debtor. Despite the hardship carve out, very few cases in front of the Bankruptcy Court have ever successfully invoked this exception for dischargeability effect; and
As to disability, 20 U.S.C. § 1087dd(c)(1)(F) allows for discharge of a loan where the student borrower "becomes permanently and totally disabled, as determined in accordance with regulations of the Secretary" which is a standard I don't think you can meet with aspergers. In any event, the administrative procedures for seeking a discharge of a federal student loan on the basis of permanent disability are outlined in the Code of Federal Regulations, at 34 C.F.R. § 674.61(b), which section in turn refers you to § 674.51 for the definition of "permanently and totally disabled", which provides:

The condition of an individual who--

(1) Is unable to engage in any substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment that--

(i) Can be expected to result in death;

(ii) Has lasted for a continuous period of not less than 60 months; or

(iii) Can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 60 months; or

(2) Has been determined by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to be unemployable due to a service-connected disability.--108.27.102.61 (talk) 22:04, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

July 29

It it worth anything?

I have found an entire case in my attic of unopened fax machine rolls for the old fax machines where the paper is rolled off a spindle. There are 40 rolls and they're in shrink wrapped plastic, unopened. These must have been obsolete by about 20 years ago. you think they're worth anything because of the age, probable scarcity and because they're unopened?--108.27.102.61 (talk) 19:24, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Type the identifying information into eBay and see if the product is sold there. Bus stop (talk) 19:26, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not that scarce, I don't think - http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=fax+paper+rolls. Also, I'd question the utility of thermal paper that has been stored in an attic.m --LarryMac | Talk 19:28, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wow. I see they're still selling this stuff. I can't believe anyone still uses it. I guess it's right next to the Apple II Cs, Intellivision game consoles, and 8 inch floppy disk display;-)--108.27.102.61 (talk) 20:12, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]