Talk:History of Palestine

History of Palestine was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (July 23, 2011). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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History of Palestine - as separate from History of the Southern Levant

There was previously an article named History of Palestine, which was renamed History of the Southern Levant two years ago by User:Drsmoo. As such, there is currently no article for History of Palestine, making the 11 million Palestinian people the only major nationality whose national historical narrative does not have an article on wikipedia.

Wikipedia currently has many articles describing overlapping regions in this area - e.g. Palestine, Canaan, Zion, the Land of Israel, Syria Palaestina, Southern Syria, Jund Filastin, Outremer, the Holy Land and the Southern Levant. These regions are all defined slightly differently, and therefore have different articles. With respect to the history of these regions, there may be other users in addition to the above-mentioned User:Drsmoo who feel strongly that the Southern Levant should have its own history article. That is fine, but that must not be at the exclusion of an article about the History of Palestine, as other users clearly feel strongly that Palestine deserves a history article - see other editors here and here and mine here and here.

The region of Palestine is seen as the "homeland" of 11m Palestinians, and in common with all other nationalisms, Palestinian nationalism views the history of the region as integral to the identity of the people. See e.g.:

Ali Qleibo, Palestinian anthropologist: "Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabateans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and European crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and Mongols, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."
Walid Khalidi, Palestinian author:"(With reference to Palestinians in Ottoman times) Although proud of their Arab heritage and ancestry, the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial, including the ancient Hebrews and the Canaanites before them. Acutely aware of the distinctiveness of Palestinian history, the Palestinians saw themselves as the heirs of its rich associations."

According to google books, there are 9,000 (nine thousand) books with the title History of Palestine (as an aside, if you run the same for History of the Southern Levant, you get 4 (four)).

I therefore propose to create an article on History of Palestine, and leave the History of the Southern Levant in tact as it is. The Palestinian people have as much right as every other nationality to a wikipedia history article for their region. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:08, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bringing in info from Palestine article

The "History" section makes up about 75% of the Palestine article. As discussed at Talk:Palestine#History_section, this is overweight, and therefore is proposed to be reduced. As such, I have reviewed the section for information which is not already in this article, and will be moving that infomation here.

The intention is that this article contains all facts which editors have written on the History of Palestine, whilst the History section of the Palestine article contains a summary.

Oncenawhile (talk) 17:54, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This has now been completed. Oncenawhile (talk) 22:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead too short

Note - The lead does not adequately summarize the contents of this article. Please expand it in preparation for a GA review. I would have reviewed it but this struck me immediately as a major issue that would risk a quick fail. Thank you for your hard work on this article. Lemurbaby (talk) 16:47, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your advice - I have expanded it as requested. Oncenawhile (talk) 01:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jerry David's edits

JerryDavid89 wants to include these passages:

The movement effected British administration of the province during World War I with the Balfour Declaration of 1917. — Since "to effect" means "to cause (something) to happen", this text says that the Zionist movement caused the British administration of Palestine. It is quite ridiculous. Besides that, Palestine was not a province, and the sentence has peculiar grammar.
The British government was under great domestic pressure to evacuate the "troublesome province"<ref>Parliamentary Debates, Lords, Fifth Series, vol. 50, pp. 994-1034, 21 June 1922</ref> entirely. — The given source contains nothing of the sort, nor does it contain either of the words "troublesome" or "province".
Bolshevism in Russia was popularly blamed on "villainous Jewish agitators", and the famous antisemitic hoax "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was widely printed in Britain and gained strong currency.<ref>Norman Rose, "A Senseless, Squalid War: Voices from Palestine 1945-1948", The Bodley Head, London, 2009. (p. 26)</ref> — The alleged causes of Bolshevism are irrelevant to the page, and the Protocols are at most a historical footnote since the evidence that they had a significant effect on events is lacking (i.e., it fails WP:WEIGHT).

This standard of editing is not acceptable. Zero^talk 14:32, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1) You seem to be unaware of basic historical facts. There was massive debate on the Palestinian administration in British society in the ::early 1900s - whole books and tracts have been written on the issue. On the Uganda Crisis and Beaverbrook, the Daily Express, etc.

2) Really? You have those volumes in front of you? I highly doubt it. Not only do I have access to them, but they are also quoted in Rose. ::So unless both myself and Rose are liars.... it appears you are... or at the very least, you're sorely mistaken.

3) The whole reason why the Mandate was being so actively discussed in British society was precisely because of Bolshevism and the ::Protocols. The latter were published in countless tabloids, the official newspaper of the Church of England, and eventually shown to be a ::forgery by the :London Times. "An historical footnote"? You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Your personal opinions on what constitutes an improvement to the article is irrelevant. My edits are attributable to impeccable sources. ::You have nothing to offer but your opinion. JerryDavid89 (talk) 01:57, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]