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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 98.201.62.208 (talk) at 00:05, 1 August 2011 (→Fragging in Vietnam). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Fragging in Vietnam

Did fragging incidents actually occur in Vietnam? I've heard that they were more myth than reality.

Fraggings occurred. There are various myths about them. A new book on Fragging by George Lepre supposedly clears it up better than anything written to date. The book should be included in the main article references.

Read The Collapse of the Armed Forces, an article from the Armed Forces Journal. Figures from here show about a 1000.

By this way, I think we need a disambiguation page here. Fragging someone in a computer game is not as serious as fragging someone in the delta. We need two different articles. --Tphcm 03:47, 27 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Much less they say the unfriendly commander was given three warnings, but the article only spells out two.


Who says there have been two instances of fragging in Iraq so far? How come no one has ever heard about it?

P.S. Yes, I know, if it is verified the conservative-echo-chambe-media is why no one has heard about it, but I haven't heard it anywhere including the internet. Maprovonsha172 9 July 2005 03:53 (UTC)

Looky here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14150285/

UCMJ

What would fragging be considered legally? Mutiny? In the event that someone was convicted, what would the penalty be? Execution?
JesseG 02:51, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Historically

Perhaps a history of incidents that occured before the term "frag" was coined should be added. There is a reference to an artillery shell put under the bed of Braxton Bragg, and I am sure more would be found with a little research.

p.s. Just cuz your holy Internet doesn't have info on frags in Iraq, means nothing, the majority of our stories there have yet to be told. Tortuga 16:25, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's not encyclopedic, and third hand evidence, but my English teacher has a habit of going off on tangents to explain things, and according to interviews he held with his grandfather, in WW1 the grandfather's squad in the trenches received a new officer who in the interests of attaining person glory ordered them to go over the top. This was met with incredulous silence, until one of the men pulled out his pistol and blew the man's brains out - and seemingly kept quiet about it until this interview with his grandson. Shows that it's been going on far earlier than vietnam at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.60.150 (talk) 10:37, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kinda agree, the term "frag" is definitely much more modern, but killing unpopular leaders was definitely common in history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.103.172 (talk) 13:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Iraq 2005

Fragging: in the 'conservative echo chamber' of mainstream news media. That airhead doesn't even know that the mainstream media is liberal-biased aka NY Times, CBS, AP, CNN, MSNBC. . .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8246860

In the military, these officers are commonly referred to as a**hole*. Nothing new here except an awareness that some arses are never clued in to the fact that there is life and death involved in the arena of their stupidity -- it is only appropriate that they be reminded at the level of their awareness. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Lebanon 2006

Changed the language - it hasn't been confirmed yet that Israel deliberately shelled U.N posts. Also, whoever added that sentence needs to avail themselves of a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary.

I removed the claim, deliberate or not I do not think it qualifies as Fraging.--Anss123 11:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


The use of the word "murder" in the context of eliminating a dangerous officer does not meet Wikipedia's NPOV guidelines. Fragging may, at times, be a highly commendable and brave action.

Of course it is murder. Killing someone in a premeditated, non-judicial way is what constituates murder, and this is a blatant occurance of that very act. That it might garner support among the troops takes nothing away from that. --193.11.220.45 23:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Would wikipedia describe generic killing in war as murder too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.184.165.20 (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Iraq

I removed from the article references to Hasan Akbar and Alberto Martinez. Akbar's crimes do not fit fragging as described in the rest of the article. Also, the link to Martinez links to a drug lord, so I'm assuming it is not the same person. No references were cited.

Matt the heathen 64.42.209.81 17:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pat Tillman

Just because a blowhard like Chris Matthews suggests Pat Tillman was fragged does not mean his death should be added to the list of incidents. All we have is suspicion at this point. The Tillman reference should only be under popular culture.

--76.173.72.21 05:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Harpers Ferry 1862

During the 1862 siege of Harpers Ferry during the Antietam Campaign of the American Civil War, the Harpers Ferry garrison commander, Col. Dixon Miles, was mortally wounded by a shell believed to have been deliberately fired by his own men. I think this is the first known case of fragging in an American army. Jsc1973 04:57, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's a claim by one historian, but the official version is a little more forgiving. I'd want something more than supposition, I think, to include such an event. --Dhartung | Talk 05:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Full Metal Jacket

Does Gomer Pyle shooting Hartman really count as a fragging, though? I mean, Gomer was more or less mentally deficient at the time, and would probably have shot anyone else that entered the room, up to the prsident or the pope, or indeed himself if no-one had arrived. Not really the deliberate murder of an higher-rank that the article seems to describe otherwise.213.113.252.120 (talk) 23:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Iraq 2009 Camp Liberty

I really don't think we need to have this incident listed at the moment. From the news reports so far, the guy seems to have just snapped and gone on a rampage. While he may have been taunted or disenfranchised by senior officers in the clinic, from the looks of it so far, this is a solo act. The description of fragging seems to suggest premeditation on the part of several soldiers, not a one man rampage. I've added "motive unknown" next to this entry for now, but as more information comes out, I suspect that deleting it will be the best course of action.

The3stars (talk) 12:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're absolutely correct. This was not a fragging; it was someone going postal and killing his fellow soldiers, not his CO. I've removed it.
Ron (talk) 04:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

straight dope

This article cites sources on fragging studies: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2877/did-soldiers-really-frag-officers-in-vietnam Brutaldeluxe (talk) 00:12, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Only superior officers?

Does the term "fragging", in current parlance, only refer to the murder of superiors, or could the term refer to the murder of an unpopular grunt? In today's Daily Dish, Andrew Sullivan publishes a letter from a career military man in which it is claimed that an out-of-the closet homosexual soldier is likely, in many cases, to be "fragged" due to his sexuality (this is part of an ongoing debate on DADT). Sullivan, not that familiar with US military culture, mistook "fragging" to be a synonym for hazing, and suggested that banning DADT would permit a soldier so "fragged" to report it up the chain of command without fear of discharge from the military. After numerous readers corrected Sullivan, noting that to be fragged is to be killed, he posted a correction, and linked to this article.

The use of "fragged" in this conversation was not in the context of a superior officer, but of an unpopular platoon-mate.

Comments?

--192.65.41.20 (talk) 22:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]


An interesting question. I have always assumed the term to refer to eliminating an unpopular officer or NCO, one who would have authority over you; and also that said act would occur during a time of war. A superior could endanger you by ordering you to perform some hazardous duty, or even volunteer the unit for a dangerous mission; killing him would eliminate this and perhaps serve as a warning to the replacement. An unpopular platoon-mate, whether gay or otherwise, would have no such authority. Usually, he would be dealt with by less than lethal means, perhaps a blanket party where he would be held down under a blanket while others beat on him. Could even be a straight out fight. And there are other means of dealing with someone you don't like, various forms of harassment or hazing.

Since soldiers are also human beings, and human beings have killed one another since time immemorial, I am sure there are times when one soldier has been pissed off enough by another's actions, real or imagined, to kill the supposed offender. But I don't think that really constitutes fragging. Wschart (talk) 01:56, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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