Talk:Knanaya

Talk archive

Older discussions are in /Archive 1. -- Chonak (talk) 00:25, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Knanaya continue to celebrate Passover very privately without inviting any Christian friend to share the Holy Meal, in accordance with Exodus 12:45.[12]

more than half of thekubagam do not celibate pesaha actually its a Syrian catholic custom any way fun to read this fantasy:)

The Topic (Knanaya) should be deleted

The page itself is a goof. 1) No body in Kerala can claim as monoethnic due to a study by BBC in October. 2) They lack proofs ( no copper plates of significance are there making it just a myth not history). 3) Their practices have more resemblance with Portuguese rather than claimed jewish formalities. 4) All the peoples (including converted christians) worshiping under churches was admitted and entered into the so called knanaya register on formation of archdiocese of kottayam 5) If kananayas have pure jewish blood then there shouldn't be any person in the community with blue eyes. But there are so many fellows belonging to the community with blue eyes stating Portuguese connection.(similarly one more endogamic community in kerala kuttichira,near kozhikode says they are pure arabic.there is no Portuguese connection here but only british connection). please see these documents also. http://nasrani.net/2007/02/16/the-plates-and-the-privileges/#comment-4325

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.17.230.253 (talk) 12:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC) 

Knanaya Pentecostal?

Officially there are only two 'sabhas' - the catholics and jacobites. the knanaya pentecostal group is one formed by those who went against the customs and joined either the traditional pentecostal churches or other prayer-groups. they do not necessarily follow the same customs as that of traditional knas. somehow, they want to leave the fold yet maintain their kna identity which is perfectly alright. But a kna individual cannot continue to be one unless s/he continues to follow tradition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.242.254.126 (talk) 15:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

If so then why there is no Knanaya Muslim too :) ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 10:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC) 

There are 10,000 Knanaya muslims, but they don't mix with people who do not keep all the law of Moses.81.103.121.144 (talk) 13:22, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Peshitta

Some automatic filter on this page won't allow correct spelling of the Peshitta to be included. This is a great pity as it is THE central aspect of Knanaya "Hebrew" life.81.103.121.144 (talk) 01:12, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I found the solution by linking to the Jewish Gospels pages which at lest discuss the Peshitta.81.103.121.144 (talk) 19:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

81 103 121 144

Hello 81 103 121 144 Instead of editing the article like Knanaya a number of times continueously, please learn how to use the sand box.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, it is because I am disabled and can only do a little at a time. Very sorry. 81.103.121.144 (talk) 19:27, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

you may be disabled and because of that inferiority complex you are making insulting allegations towards nasrani's forgetting that knanaya women were raped during portugese inquisition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 06:51, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Nasranis are wonderful people, it was certainly not my intention to make any "insulting allegations" could you clarify how please so that I can make corrections? Thank you.81.103.121.144 (talk) 18:59, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

with duo respect,'living fossils',is that a term to indicate the wonderful people? even no genetic tests until now claimed the jewish origins of knanayas,how nasrani's alone be living fossils ? if then knanayas are a cross breed of portugese-arabians like latin-christians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 07:24, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Living fossil has no malicious meaning it is in fact a complement to the academically acknowledged antiquity of the tradition. I mentioned this last time. If you read the section carefully you will see it says there is no difference between Nasrani and Knanaya.81.103.121.144 (talk) 10:47, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Even there is no specific reliable reason for the creation of archdiocese of kottayam. It is been known that false copper plates with arabic and portugese inscription was the reson behind it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 07:28, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I am interested if you can produce a reference concerning the copper plate forgery which you mention.81.103.121.144 (talk) 10:47, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

what type of reference you need,the original copper plate you produced before pius xth? and I like to see the original copper plate defing a kna's jewish ethos. But I prefer to see a genetic test report of a 100% jew and a knanaya more than that :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 12:12, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Notorious Southist Propaganda

This article is fully stupid propaganda by citing sources of dubious credibility and misrepresenation. POv is raised and editers are requested to arrive on credibility and veracity of the sources cited in the article.

Please see the earlier archived discussion: /Archive 1.

Please do not chnage the article with out consensus. EasoPothen (talk) 23:32, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree the name should probably be Thekkumbagar and you make some good points, however, since you call the Southist tradition about themselves "fully stupid propaganda", then I don't think you are qualified to make any neutral edits, for example you said not to make any edits without consensus but then you changed the name to Thekkumbagar without consensus (though I sort-of defend your change now unless anyone else reverts your change). If no one reverts your edits then it is proof of consensus. I actually agreed your name change last time, but it was reverted by those who did not agree, so clearly you and I were not enough for a consensus. We have had a significant amount of hate-vandalism on this page from people with the same kind of POV you seem to express, it is a good article as it stands right now with a good number of references and still just needs more references to be found and inserted. Let's just wait for other participants to come along and put in what they have before the two of us decide to make any radical changes. Please chill-out/relax have a nice cup of tea, take a deep breath to let go of everything which stresses you out and then let's continue to talk about what changes should and should not be made. :) 81.103.121.144 (talk) 13:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Although I reverted your edit because it did have a heavy political bias, I am systematically checking references for every individual change you made and putting them back in once verified. By the end of the day I think I will have completed a a section entitled criticisms which everything directly opposed to the article should be in. That way we can prevent political bias from seeping through the entire article.81.103.121.144 (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Concerning the term Jewish Christians which has many connotations I agree that there may be a problem with the term and that perhaps something like Judeo-Christian would be a more accurately descriptive term. I would like Robin Klein's input on this question. Is Jewish Christian an accurate enough description Robin? 81.103.121.144 (talk) 13:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I have again added POV for all the sections as the information in each section is propaganda material with wrong citation. Also added the clean up tag. Please do not remove them again. There are a bunch of propagandist working on putting back propaganda material in this page for several years now. In that case i will go ahead and request the intervention of an administrator.

We already requested admins to help deal with vandalism from people who do not understand the meaning of the article. There is no propaganda in this article. The article is currently being watched by several people who are vigilant against this vandal with a very strongly anti POV.81.103.121.144 (talk) 10:34, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

I request you to work in a sandbox if you are really interested in improving the article. What stands now is a low level propaganda material with absolute fake citation. The references given are manipulated and nothing on proper history is written in this page. The entire article need to be changed. EasoPothen (talk) 07:15, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

I request you to work in the sandbox :) I have been doing Wiki for a very long time. All the peers are happy with the article except you and you have already proven your "anti" POV agenda. This disqualifies you from objective editing. But if you want to present the facts here first. If there is a dispute then it can be resolved here and then when consensus is arrived at it will be put into the article. That is the way it works when controversies arise.81.103.121.144 (talk) 10:31, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

TO ALL SOUTHISTS WHO CLAIM ENDOGAMY OF 1600 Years

1. ) No species which had undergone endogamy for 1600 years cannot survive (scientific evidence proof is available,example is pharaos of egypt).
2. ) Genetic tests of Southists are available in www.ysearch.org. It reveals that, there is no difference in genes between northists and southists. this reveils that there is no genetic match between jews in israel and southists.
3. ) The stories of origin of southists dates back to 15th century where vellallachetties converted to christianity.(No intentional insults here)
4. ) Out of the results of DNA samples tested, 50% mDNA tests indicated South Indian Origin(Dravidian).

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 06:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC) 

The abstract from the letter of Pope Pius Xth on creation of Archdiocese of Kottayam due to split between Mathew Makil and Northists...

“In support of our complaints from a social point of view, we beg to call your Holiness’ kind attention to the past history of the church in Malabar. The sudists, too low and too insignificant to be counted in the general community, were not allowed to be ordained priests; and though there were native bishops even from the time of the apostle, St Thomas, not one of them has been a sudist. The consecration of Mar Makil, a sudist is the first instance of the violation of our admitted superiority and privilege for centuries. Although later on, the sudists were allowed to be ordained as priests through the exertions of Latin bishops, there is no instance of a sudist priest governing even a northist parish. We are therefore extremely sorry that the Vatican with all its proverbial respect for the precedents would think it fit not only to deprive us of or time honoured superiority and privilege but also to subject us to the rule of a sudist bishop-which is indeed a great national insult. Our only consolation when we think of all this is , that Rome has been kept in the dark as to the true state of affairs, and that she will soon rectify this unhappy error.”

Example of Fakeness

This is the opening sentence of this article: Thekkumbagar/Knanaya or more accurately Q'nanaya, (Heb:קנאים, Malayalam: ക്നാനായ, Syriac:ܛܢܢܐ, Ar:قينان) from Kerala, India, are a Jewish Christian people of early endogamous Kenite descent.

The references given are Menachery G. 1973, 1998; Vellian Jacob 2001; Weil,S. 1982; Podipara, Placid J. 1970. All of these are fake references. Some one pasted their propaganda and for authenticity faked the sources as Menachery G. 1973, 1998; Vellian Jacob 2001; Weil,S. 1982; Podipara, Placid J. 1970. In fact there are many scholars who have written about Southists but none of them are cited either correctly or wrongly.EasoPothen (talk) 07:26, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Present your quotations here. We are all interested in what you have to say. Please demonstrate it here, then we can put it into the article.81.103.121.144 (talk) 10:27, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Lot of attempts are there for making knanaites superior than other christians. This is a disputable attempt that neither of them attempt to provide scientific tests providing their jewish identity(atleast one). Even the dispute icon in the page is deleted by vandals.Having whitish complexion is the method of considering one as knanite,then whole whitish christians should be considered as knanites(let us forget the similarity between christians in Goa and knanites). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 07:22, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

It seems that there are people trying to defame the Knanaya people with baseless slander. [User:Avalinelemar|Avalinelemar]] (talk) 10:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

poor knanayas.they even kills Sister Abaya and even removes the references from the knanaya page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 10:35, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

What kind of logic is that? This is an ethnicity page. Why should the death of a Catholic nun represent people who could very well be other faiths? Furthermore, why should one individual's action represent a whole group of unrelated people? Please improve your grammer next time you post. [User:Avalinelemar|Avalinelemar]] (talk) 21:55, 03 May 2011 (UTC)

Since it is dealing with (your) ethnicity(purely jewish as claimed), it does sounds well. your answer has it all.No such incident has been reported in the history of Syrian churches except knanaya's(you should be thankful for native christians for making them harassed in the name of this incident(being christian) apart from making them 'living fossils'). I like to know the mistake in the sentence too :) Mr/Mrs.Grammer teacher. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 10:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you :). Sorry about my outburst. I actually never stated that I am Knanaya and I am not. Unfortunately, I do not see how my reply has "it all". Like I said earlier, not every Knanaya person is Syrian Christian or even Christian in a broad sense for that matter. Furthermore, why should one individual's action represent a whole group of unrelated people? Is there a list of murder cases on the pages of other ethnic groups? [User:Avalinelemar|Avalinelemar]] (talk) 22:16, 04 May 2011 (UTC)

Please go through the sentences you wrote. I sensed a smell of intolerance(which usually a character of this community).Sorry to know that you are not a kna.I guess you are just a 'living fossil' as specified in the main article. regarding , why should one individual's action represent a whole group of unrelated people,the abaya case was brutally screwed up by the fellows in this community to save the culprits.Even one political leader belonging to kna was there in delhi to make it possible (according to intelligence report by kerala police).From these everyone now know that it is not an individual's action but a community project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 11:30, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

There are plenty of middleastern people of arabic and syrians as syric christians in kerala. basically these are not at all a surprise. if people can understand these middleastern sense we can even compare a syrian christian to muslims from middeast or we may compare muslims to a syrian/kananay community . so simple. but these people eventually mixed in to kerala population over centuries such as locally marrying and populated. Any of these featured people in orthodox or syrian churches can makeup a conclution of these phenomen. sometime i doubt sreenivasan or son veeneth srenivasan seems having these muslim blood.These can be happen in kerala populations. As i observed or many pointed out that nair are also middleastern.some claim that they do have persian orgin. bascially our connection to persia or syra or to the middleastern land is evident and its not a surprise. In a way these facts are correct but if we asked too much about these all the facts are not correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.190.102.59 (talk) 23:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

User:202.88.237.74 Vandalism

Please note that the above-mentioned user has been vandalising this page without providing an clear referenced arguments. The complaints of the user seem to be that the article needs a "critical view" section to counter the ethnic Knanaya views presented here, However the user fails to provide references about the Knanaya from other perspectives and the result is possibly unintended emotional attacks and vandalism. Besides not liking the fact that the article is from a Knanaya point of view about Knanaya "southists", the user seems to think that this is an "elitist" article where Knanaya are somehow presenting themselves as "better" in some way or another over other (non-Knanaya) Nasranis ("Northists"). However the user does not make clear where such and idea appears in the text. The User also fails to understant the use of idiom in English regarding the complement about Nasranis being "living fossils" of a now lost period of Christian history as being an insult. The user is invited to try and present calmly without resorting to personal attacks the evidence and counter evidence for his/her frustrations.149.254.61.40 (talk) 14:08, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Dear user 149.254.61.40, first of all please go through the above comment of yourself and clean all the spelling mistakes. secondly, I tried to present all historical facts one by one including DNA tests done on both knas and northists. I recently noted that you puts forwards insulting remarks and removes POVs from the article without any concensus. Vatican haven't recognised archdiocese of kottayam as 'jewish christians' as stated in the 'did you know'. diocese of kottayam was formed due to the enemity arised by Mathew makkil towards Nidherikkal kathanaar when Makkil thought knas are considered as inferior castes(sons/daughters of Vellallachettikal otherwise known as Charamkettikal) and do not possess any churches.They were also not able to marry from Northists and were forcefully obliged to marry within themself which is endogamy in kna's term(LOL). Knas now declared themself as pure jewish since jews now have a country and considered superior to Arabs. If in future, lower castes in Kerala makes their own country and declares themself superior, I am sure that Knas will claim themself as lower castes(Pulayas or parayas) as they had claimed now. Also for your knowledge, RCs doesnot promotes ethnocity and due to it there is no chance of recognising a diocese for knas only. It is you who vandalises the pages by removing appropriate links and other important facts. If you dont want to edit a specific page, please do it in your sandbox and please dont insult others for simply adding references.Also bear in mind that a wiki page is not a poster and advertisement template for knas to insult others. If you are a Kna, I politely invite you to do a DNA test which is more accurate than 'blah blah'ing your jewish claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 10:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

There is no such thing as Jewish race, only Jewish religion. Knanaya preserved more elements of that earlier form of religion than any other Christian sect. It seems you have a fixation on castes. Maybe you are a Hindu not a christian. If you have evidence of another christian community with more Jewish tradition than the Knanaya please present your evidence. otherwise please stop your racist vandalism removing links etc. You are the only one causing trouble on this page for more than a year now. Your links are not scientific journals they are racist discussion pages promoting hate against the Knanaya. But why do you hate so much? What happened to you? If you are a Christian then please behave like Jesus before Pilate with gentle rational behavior.81.103.121.144 (talk) 23:43, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

@81.103.121.144,

1) "Maybe you are a Hindu not a christian".It is none of your business.see who is propogating religious agenda?!!! 2) Jewish is not only a religion but a race.for the clarification you can go through the article and read about 'L3' type of genes.they provided here without citing a reliable source. 3) Sister Abhaya is not knanaya? who killed her? the culprits are also knanaya. Since you are purely the species of jesus christ,it is not a crime?!!!who avoided the links? 4) What happened to you?--->good question. I always believe in science. I saw this article and it is without any proof or validity. So I interpreted. Also you $@#$#, please provide the details of problems I caused. Is that I added links of relevance?.removed unaudited references? Please be polite to answer my questions.dont be emotional :) like other k(un)nanayas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.237.74 (talk) 11:44, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with everything you stated, 81.103.121.144. Once again, 202.88.237.74, you have fallen back to unclear statements that are difficult to decipher. Please state your arguments clearly so everyone can understand. Jews are an ethnic group not a race and Judaism is the religion. One can be of Jewish ancestry but not practice Judaism and similarly not belong to the Jewish ethnic group and practice another faith. In addition, race is a socially constructed term and changes according to the specific society, so let us avoid the use of something so loosely termed. "Like I said earlier, not every Knanaya person is Syrian Christian or even Christian in a broad sense for that matter. Furthermore, why should one individual's action represent a whole group of unrelated people? Is there a list of murder cases on the pages of other ethnic groups." Knanaya people are an ETHNICITY. Not all of them believe in Jesus. The murder case has no place in an ethnic group's page. Avalinelemar (talk) 22:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

MR/MRS Avalinelemar,

• 1) please differentiate between the race and ethnicity in your viewpoint.It is totally confusing from your statements.
• 2) how can be there a non sense term as 'Jewish christians' if jewish is not a race rather a belief?
• 3) where did I had done vandalism?(None of the fellows argued me with vandalism didnt provided any suitable answer for it :P )
• 4) what is the authority/ recorded proof of knanaya stories rather than making songs and stories from the late nineties? the reference provided in the page doesnot go to the pages they mention as the subject.only goes to some knanaya matrimony site.so I think this wikipedia page of knanaya is an index page for knanaya matrimonial sites.
• 5) I repeatedly asked you knas(charamkettikal or ash-tied ones) to provide the genetic proof rather than allegating me with vandalism. Israel allocates citizenship based on genetic tests. In the page it is written that 'Ultimate derivation is from the root meaning of "possessive" later meaning "striker" due to renown as smiths among their Kenite ancestors shared with the Druze along with Haplogroup L (Y-DNA) ' . The specified 'L' type is the pre dominent genetics among dravidian troops in Srilanka and Tamil Nadu.(Shame upon the fellow who had written this, unknowingly provided data that they belongs to Srilanka/ Tamil Nadu and came via a ship along with knai thomman :). Unfortunately Israel doesnot recognise those possessing 'L type' Haplogroup as Jewish.You can see more details from the link itself that it is the most predominent one among kallars.(Famous poet Vairamuthu belongs to kallars and Now I came to know the similarities between any charamketti priest along with him).
• 6) as an old doubt can you clarify that why you people's female family members used to tie some (charam or Ash) at the end of the sari's end (konthala) like those does in vellallachetti(a sub group of kallars)'s female members(All fellows having IQ>0 knows that charam in older days used to wash cloths and their occupation was cleaning big peoples dress)? is it a jewish practice? Oh I forgot to say, they also practice endogamy. So I presume that kallars are the lost group of Israel :)
• I dare you fellows to provide sufficient answers to my questions rather than support each other(every Tom,DICK and Harry). Everybody says " oh I support that I support this.." but none is able to provide satisfactory answers regarding their own ancestry. I wish moderators to remove the articles without any valid reference or generally accepted proof like this knanaya article.

202.88.237.74 (talk) 09:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

1."Ethnicity refers to selected cultural and sometimes physical characteristics used to classify people into groups or categories considered to be significantly different from others

“A race is a biological subspecies click this icon to hear the preceding term pronounced, or variety of a species, consisting of a more or less distinct population with anatomical traits that distinguish it clearly from other races"

http://anthro.palomar.edu/ethnicity/ethnic_1.htm

Though race and ethnicity/ethnic groups are related notions, the idea of ethnicity is rooted more in the idea of social grouping, particularly by a collective nationality, tribal affiliation, kinship and descent, religious identification, language use, or specific cultural and traditional origins, whereas race is rooted in the idea of a biological classification.

“Brace has also criticized forensic anthropologists for using the controversial concept "race" out of convention when they in fact should be talking about regional ancestry. He argues that while a forensic anthropologists can determine that a skeletal remain comes from a person with ancestors in a specific region of Africa, categorizing that skeletal as being "black" is a socially constructed category that is only meaningful in the particular context of the United States, and which is not itself scientifically valid.”

C. Loring Brace, 1995. "Region Does not Mean "Race"--Reality Versus Convention in Forensic Anthropology," Journal of Forensic Sciences 40 (#2): 29-33.

2. Jews are an ethnic group NOT a race, my friend. However being Jewish and practicing Judaism are very correlated.

“The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.”

“Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

"The Jewish Problem: How To Solve It". Louis D. Brandeis, "Jews are a distinctive nationality of which every Jew, whatever his country, his station or shade of belief, is necessarily a member" (April 25, 1915), University of Louisville Louis D. Brandeis

School of Law, Retrieved on June 15, 2009

"A history of the Jewish nation: from the earliest times to the present day". Palmer, Edward Henry. 1875. D. Lothrop & Co.. Retrieved on June 15, 2009.

"How I Became a Zionist". "The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein, Vol. 7: Berlin Years". "The Jewish Nation is a living fact". June 21, 1921). Princeton University Press. Retrieved on June 15, 2009.

“The definition of who is a Jew varies according to whether it is being considered by Jews based on normative religious statutes, self-identification, or by non-Jews for other reasons. Because Jewish identity can include characteristics of an ethnicity, a religion, and citizenship, the definition of who is a Jew has varied, depending on whether a religious, sociological, or ethnic aspect was being considered”

Something interesting note, “Another example of the issues involved is the case of converts to Judaism who cease to practice Judaism (whether or not they still regard themselves as Jewish), do not accept or follow halakha, or now adhere to another religion. Technically, such a person remains Jewish, like all Jews, provided that the original conversion is valid.”

Sharot, Stephen, Judaism and Jewish Ethnicity: Changing Interrelationships and Differentiations in the Diaspora and Israel, in Ernest Krausz, Gitta Tulea, (eds.) Jewish survival: the identity problem at the close of the twentieth century, pp.87-104

Will Herberg, David G. Dalin, From Marxism to Judaism: the collected essays of Will Herberg, p.240

Someone can be belonging to the Jewish ethnic group but practice Christianity.

“Jewish Christians, also called Hebrew Christians, Christian Jews or Judaizers, were Early Christians who maintained Jewish religious practices, from the period of the inception of Christianity until approximately the fifth century”. Learn more at Jewish Christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christian.

Joan Taylor, Christians and the holy places: the myth of Jewish-Christian origins, Oxford University Press, 1993 p. 18

3. I haven’t seen any vandalism.

4. I am not sure what you mean by wedding songs. I do agree that this page needs a major cleanup. Everyone needs to discuss changes before making edits.

5. I don’t know why you stated “you knas(charamkettikal or ash-tied ones) to provide the genetic proof rather than allegating me with vandalism”. Like you and Avaline, I am not Knanaya and you shouldn’t assume that everyone here is Knanaya. I am unable to provide genetic proof.

However, my friend, Israel does NOT grant citizenship based on genetic tests. You don't need any 'Jewish' genetic proof to become an Israeli citizen via the Law of Return, because Judaism is not a race. If you convert to Judaism you can become an Israeli citizen via the Law of Return. It doesn't matter what ethnic background you come from. Furthermore family members (spouses, children) are able to obtain Israeli citizenship. Though I don't see what this has to do with Knanaya.

I agree with you. Whoever wrote that DNA summary is writing nonsense. But like I said earlier, Israel does not care about genetic proof.

I have no idea what a “kallar”, “Vairamuthu”, or “charamketti” is.

Since ethnicity is “a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy”, it can be argued that Knanaya people meet these requirements and hence an ethnic group.

Hobsbawm and Ranger (1983), The Invention of Tradition, Sider 1993 Lumbee Indian Histories

Seidner,(1982), Ethnicity, Language, and Power from a Psycholinguistic Perspective, pp. 2-3

Smith 1987 pp.21-22

Whether they are or are not Jewish. What Jewish is really hard to measure and DNA is not going to prove it. As stated earlier, “Another example of the issues involved is the case of converts to Judaism who cease to practice Judaism (whether or not they still regard themselves as Jewish), do not accept or follow halakha, or now adhere to another religion. Technically, such a person remains Jewish, like all Jews, provided that the original conversion is valid.” The Knanaya people can fail every single DNA test but use this argument.

6. While I do not understand the majority of what you stated, 202.88.237.74, I know that illogical statements, “female members(All fellows having IQ>0”, will not lead to people considering your argument seriously.

The Knanaya people reminds me of both Crypto-Judaism and Anusim.

The Bnei Menashe are a group of more than 9,000 people from India's North-Eastern border states of Manipur and Mizoram who claim descent from one of the Lost Tribes of Israel. The claim appeared after a Pentecostalist dreamt in 1951 that his people's pre-Christian religion was Judaism and that their original homeland was Israel.

The Israeli government announces that the remaining 7,200 can make Aliyah within a 1-2 year period after undergoing a conversion.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3831308,00.html

Hope I helped clear up,

- A friend from Poland

77.65.4.231 (talk) 22:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear friend from Poland,

Please refer the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) type of genetic markers which was developed by israeli scientists to determine jewish identity. If knas had undergone endogamy for 2000 years and of pure jewish origin(as claimed), then their genetic pool may not be disturbed with any other genes and should contain CMH. But none of them (until now ) had tested positive for CMH and also their genetics contains only locally obtainable L Haplogroup. These facts proof that the stories of endogamy is 100% False which makes this article to be deleted immediately.
Apart from that, Wikipedia should say Sorry to World on publishing the false claim of 'Vatican recognised knas as jewish christians' :) In the front page itself.
202.88.237.74 (talk) 09:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Did you even read anything stated? DNA evidence does not equate to the Jewish identity!

Where are you pulling these claims from? Your hatred for this community unfortunately cannot be used as evidence.

- A friend from Poland

77.65.4.231 (talk) 15:06, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear A friend from Poland,
I read everything you had written. Who said DNA evidence doesnot equate jewish identity? This is not the case of hatred. This is all about bluffing whole readers of wikipedia. I stated here the need for scientific authenticity (In your terms it is not needed,only an illegal reference is needed?!!!see the knanaya in israel link :) To understand the genetics first search for Cohen Modal Haplotype in wikipedia itself and read thoroughly. kindly note that I dont mix any emotions with truth.

- A friend from India

202.88.237.74 (talk) 06:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Hebrew Transliteration

What transliteration do you think would be appropriate? Knanaya is חנניה in Hebrew. While קנאי which was used previously reads Kanahi. Avalinelemar (talk) 23:11, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

this chapter in wikepedia is total rubbish

i think before allowing this topic the wikepedia should have checked the authenticity.there is nothing like knanaya penthacost and so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.77.96.136 (talk) 16:24, 29 July 2011 (UTC)