Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language

Reference Desk

Science Mathematics Computing/IT Humanities Language Entertainment Miscellaneous Archives
How to ask a question Search first. It's quicker, because you can find the answer in our online encyclopedia instead of waiting for a volunteer to respond. Search Wikipedia using the searchbox. A web search could help too. Common questions about Wikipedia itself, such as how to cite Wikipedia and who owns Wikipedia, are answered in Wikipedia:FAQ.
Sign your question. Type ~~~~ at its end. Be specific. Explain your question in detail if necessary, addressing exactly what you'd like answered. For information that changes from country to country (or from state to state), such as legal, fiscal or institutional matters, please specify the jurisdiction you're interested in. Include both a title and a question. The title (top box) should specify the topic of your question. The complete details should be in the bottom box. Do your own homework. If you need help with a specific part or concept of your homework, feel free to ask, but please don't post entire homework questions and expect us to give you the answers. Be patient. Questions are answered by other users, and a user who can answer may not be reading the page immediately. A complete answer to your question may be developed over a period of up to seven days.	Do not include your e-mail address. Questions aren't normally answered by e-mail. Be aware that the content on Wikipedia is extensively copied to many websites; making your e-mail address public here may make it very public throughout the Internet. Edit your question for more discussion. Click the [edit] link on right side of its header line. Please do not start multiple sections about the same topic. Archived questions If you cannot find your question on the reference desks, please see the Archives. Unanswered questions If you find that your question has been archived before being answered, you may copy your question from the Archives into a new section on the reference desk. Do not request medical or legal advice. Ask a doctor or lawyer instead.
After reading the above, you may ask a new question by clicking here. Your question will be added at the bottom of the page.
How to answer a question Be thorough. Please provide as much of the answer as you are able to. Be concise, not terse. Please write in a clear and easily understood manner. Keep your answer within the scope of the question as stated.	Link to articles which may have further information relevant to the question. Be polite to users, especially ones new to Wikipedia. A little fun is fine, but don't be rude. The reference desk is not a soapbox. Please avoid debating about politics, religion, or other sensitive issues.

See also Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language/FAQs for answers to frequently asked language and usage questions.

March 12

Warfare

I understand there's a single word that describes an event in warfare where the commander of one army personally combats and kills his counterpart in the opposing army. I recall Churchill using the word in his writing on Marlborough. I also faintly recall that the word begins either with an "m" or a "v".

Could you please try and find out?

Thank you very much

Bhalchandrarao C. Patwardhan

Jousting may be the word you're looking for. Jousting takes place between knights, who by natural right (as conceived in feudal society) are the leaders. --Halcatalyst 19:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Possibly monomachia [Latin] or monomachy. Rmhermen 01:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

See also Spolia opima. Septentrionalis 05:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Also "challenge", as in "5b: to call out to duel or combat": [1]. If you want it to start with "v", perhaps "vanquish the challenger" ? StuRat 18:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Single combat?

word meaning

KOESISIPELUOVACA seen on wall paper on inside or cottage roof in Fiji island resort.

Wiktionary translations

Wiktionary:Translations of the Week

We are looking for people to translate the following into as many languages as possible.

Please go to the relevant Wiktionary page and place your translations there

1 figure

2 tone

3 dress

Thanks, --Dangherous 15:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Make versus Take

(1) Make

• Make a nap
• Make a sip

(2) Take

• Take a nap
• Take a sip

I am a non-native speaker of English.

Can someone tell me whether (1) or (2) is correct according to the rules of standard American English as it is accepted by educated people. Also, if possible, please explain the reason behind your choice.

--66.81.193.58 19:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

"Take" is correct, and using "make" instead of "take" in such phrases is an easy way to identify a non-native speaker. StuRat 18:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Option 2 is correct, just because that's the way it is. (I'm American, but I believe British English is the same in these examples.) --Nelson Ricardo 19:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

What Nelson said, in British English. Although you could also have either. Mark^{your words} 19:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Some comedian (George Carlin maybe?) observed that when you "take a piss", you're really doing the opposite, because you're leaving something, not taking it. —Keenan Pepper 20:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Lots of words have different meanings. There's no striking involved in "hitting the road", "hitting the sack" or "hitting the showers". JackofOz 01:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• If we "take a shower," then why don't we say, "hitting the shower (singular)?"

--66.81.193.218 03:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• I do say "I'm going to hit the shower". StuRat 18:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

You do say! And what did the poor shower ever do to you? DirkvdM 05:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• • Because usually when we say "hitting the showers" it's more than one person who's about to shower, and usually under separate showerheads. - Nunh-huh 06:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I suspect it's more a male thing, stemming from testosterone-induced aggression and a possible over-compensation for the fear of being seen as other than active, strong, in control, and masculine, by one's male peers who in a few moments will be standing naked quite close to you. The sensuality and pleasure of a shower are to be denied at all costs. JackofOz 07:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• Is there something you want to tell us, Jack ? LOL. I found communal showering in school to be most unpleasant, being a cold, mildew smelling room with no place to hang a towel, so you dropped it on the floor and it got it wet with who-knows-what. I often wondered why gyms always seem to require communal nudity, as opposed to individual shower stalls and dressing rooms, but then realized they are designed by gym teachers, who are largely homosexual (of the "butch" variety). That explains it all. The toilet stalls with no doors were the last straw, I will take my defecation needs elsewhere, thank you very much. StuRat 18:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's merely an extension of having communal urinals in men's toilets. How do teachers get to design gyms? I thought that was a job for designers and architects. (Is it possible you have a slight case of paranoia about gym teachers and their obviously evil agendas?) :-) JackofOz 22:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• Why are incarcerated people not in cells? Why do adults have to sleep in dormitory-style jails? Why does a person who has evaded taxes have to be next to a child-molesting rapist in American prisons (I am uncertain about prisons in foreign countries)?

Moreover, if we really want to punish people, it makes sense to sequester people in small cells as opposed to making them fight with homosexuals; this is in consideration of how fatal some fights have turned out to be.

• Also, when I went to school in Los Angeles, CA, I could never defecate because the toilet stalls had no door and I didn't want to become a laughingstock.

--66.81.192.2 04:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Never heard of toilets without doors. I wonder what the purpose would be. Some sort of bonding? (I don't want to know what sort.) Romans didn't even have stalls and shat side by side whilst having a chat, but then they had a much more relaxed attitude towards nudity (and homosexuality for that matter). DirkvdM 05:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Is "shat" the past tense form ? :-) StuRat 22:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

"Shat" has an honoured place in Australian English. JackofOz 01:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Is that related to the Shat-el Arab ? Perhaps it's used as an open sewer ? StuRat 20:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

What would it be in non-Strine English then? Shitted? Or doesn't it exist? DirkvdM 08:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I held it in for 5 days when I went to a camp which had no toilet stall doors. I talked to a person who served on a submarine, and he held it in for several weeks during the voyage for the same reason. (I imagine fasting and just drinking liquids was involved.) Do we need to pass a law to keep these idiots from removing the doors from toilet stalls before someone dies from their refusal to use them ? StuRat 22:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• On that note, a point of advice: Don't ever go to rural China. ;) Dforest 10:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Several weeks!!! Wow, that's really taking denial of Mother Nature to new heights. Might I suggest that anybody who would risk their own life because a toilet stall door was missing might need a re-think of their priorities. Surely there comes a point when you just get over it and do what you have to do. JackofOz 01:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yea, that seemed a bit extreme to me, too. However, the fact remains that some people are sufficiently embarrassed to do so. This reminds me of em-bare-assing medical procedures, like the digital rectal prostate exam. The medical community says men should just "get over it", but the fact remains that people die because they don't want to undergo that humiliation. The medical community should get the message and offer less invasive options, like the PSA blood test, to those who refuse to "visit Dr. Goldfinger". StuRat 20:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

At the Rainbow World Gathering I went to, there was a very relaxed attitude towards nudity, but when it came to having a shit in the woods (in an official hole in the ground, mind you), people were rather upset when I disturbed their privacy. So it's not about the nudity. Dogs are nude, but also often seem to value some privacy when they shit ("a watched dog never shits" :) ). DirkvdM 08:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that's because it's difficult to defend oneself from attack while so occupied. Thus, attacking such a dog is a rather shitty thing to do. StuRat 20:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

My Sons name translation

I have been searching for the translation of my 10yr. old sons name (Alexander) for a long time. I am extremleley computer iliteret and would really appreciate your help. I would dearly like the Japanese writing symbols for his name. Alexander.

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I've lost my son and best friend. I traveled to Japan and adopted my son. He was a very ill child, but I fell in love with him. I would like to put both his American name and his Japanese equivilent on his stone as well as a tattoo across my shoulder. My son was 10 and I am 54. I miss him terribly. It has only been 4 days. Thank you for any assistance or direction you may be able to offer me. Audrey (your instructions ask that an E-mail not be included. How do I go about finding out if you've received this and if you've obtained this information? Thank you.

Well, you have to consider that Japanese characters are intended for writing Japanese, which has different sounds from English, so if you tried to write "alexander" the closest thing you could get would be "arekusandoru". A Japanese person would probably just write it in romaji (Latin letters). That said, you could write "arekusandoru" in katakana like this: アレクサンドル (I'll upload an image of those characters if you can't see them.) —Keenan Pepper 20:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The Japanese article on Alexander Hamilton spells it アレクサンダー ("Arekusandah") -- Mwalcoff 03:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

That way's better. —Keenan Pepper 13:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm very sorry about your loss. I can confirm that アレクサンダー is how it is usually written in Japanese. Dforest 09:24, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Just check back for the answer, that way it's there for everyone who's interested. Sorry about your loss. -LambaJan 04:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

You can write Alexander using katakana as mentioned above, or you can use one of the kanji ways. Here is an extract from a book on names, you can choose one you like for Alex. Sorry for your loss. +Hexagon1 (talk) 14:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

What words apply to the comparison of dissimilar terms?

Hi, can someone put forward for some words that apply to the 'comparison of dissimilar terms'? Thanks 86.129.82.92 19:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Apples and oranges? —Keenan Pepper 20:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Ironically, apples and oranges are frequently similar enough to compare, as when comparing price, nutritional into, etc. StuRat 18:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Chalk and cheese? JackofOz 07:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I never heard that one before, must be Britspeak. StuRat 18:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It probably had a British origin, but it's very often heard in Australia. The common phrases encountered in our respective countries sometimes seem as different as chalk and cheese. JackofOz 22:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I.m not sure what you mean. Do you want examples or the word that means "comparison of dissimilar terms. Examples: As Black as coal as White as Snow. As sour as milk and as sweet as pie. As dark as night and as light as day. As good as gold and as bad as .....etc

However if you mean the word that means "comparison of dissimilar terms".....Chalk and Cheese are opposites not synonyms but ( I can't think of the word i want) oh yes antonyms. That is a word for two things that are opposite.By dissimilar terms do you mean opposites or like the above e.g apples and oranges. By COMPARISON of dissimilar terms do you mean for example: As hard as chalk and as soft as cheese or are you finding a similarity between two dissimilar terms by comparing them. I'm guessing that you mean the first and there definately is a word for this. Perhaps someone who has studied English lit. or with knowledge of Metaphor etc.. will know. It might come to me later.Liz

I am Looking for a Phrase...

Let us assume that I am uncertain whether Jane has stolen a bag. Now to make her own up to it, if she has stolen it, I go to her and confidently say, "Why did you purloin that bag? Go and bring it back."

Is there a verb or colloquial phrase in English to describe this trick of mine.

--66.81.192.204 23:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The closest thing I can come up with is begging the question. moink 00:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I think term presupposition is used in counselling, therapy, NLP etc. Check that out first. My take on it is this: if Jane gives information in response to how, when, where and why questions, or if she can lead you to the bag, then the question of whether she stole it (or at least had some involvement in it) is resolved. Since guilt has been implicitly admitted, explicit admission will often follow hard upon. (At least that's the way it works on CSI, The Bill, Miami Vice, Perry Mason, etc - and we all know those stories are true to life). The theory is that it is impossible not to make a valid response to a question (but it may be mingled up with other valid responses, and some invalid ones too). To the question "When did you stop beating your wife?", a man who has never beaten his wife will give a different response than a man who used to beat his wife but has now stopped. The only question is whether the response is detectable by the observer. A response can sometimes be limited to subtle facial clues such as eye movements that would take a trained observer to understand. JackofOz 07:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Link added. JackofOz 09:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I thought the classical response to such a question was mu. 61.51.253.61 06:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I have much to learn. JackofOz 09:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Colloquially you could say that you "tripped her up". Liz.

The phrase you are looking for, I believe, is asking a loaded question. The classic and oft-cited example of a loaded question is: "Do you still beat your wife?" --Fuhghettaboutit 22:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

March 13

King Franz Joseph I

Hi, I am attempting to translate an old German passport dated April 1884. It says on the front (in German), "In the name of his Majesty Franz Joseph I, King of Austria, King of Bohemia u.s.w., and Apostalic King of Hungary." Can you tell me what u.s.w. means?

Also, in the description of the passport bearer it looks like it says: Character/Profession: (difficult to read) "Flabavryafilfa" Does this make any sense at all?

Also, description of his mouth looks like it says "yusgavlisnsit?"

Birthplace of the wife looks like: "Krizouski." Is there, or was there such a place?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide. Bonnie

USW stands for "und so weiter" which translates to "and so on".
Slumgum 01:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It's equivalent to "etc." JackofOz 01:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

To find a fair number of places that might correspond to "Krizouski", go to Shtetl Finder and search for "Krizouski". Some are in Poland (Krzyczki), some Hungary, some Lithuania. - Nunh-huh 04:38, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The description of his mouth? It would be great if you could upload a scan of the passport so that we could see the original rather than your interpretation of the letters. As far as I know, both German and Hungarian were official languages of Austria-Hungary, so it's possible that what you're seeing as "Flabavryafilfa" and "yusgavlisnsit?" is actually Hungarian rather than German. Angr/talk 14:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I may have quite a bit left towards full fluency in Magyar, but I think I can safely say that those two words (as written) don't make any more sense in Hungarian than in German or English. --BluePlatypus 18:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't think so. All I meant was, it's quite possible that when the inscriptions are deciphered correctly, they might prove to be in Hungarian rather than German. Angr/talk 19:58, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

What does this t-shirt say?

I've been thinking of buying this t-shirt, found on CafePress, for a friend who likes seals because it has a cute picture of a seal on it: http://www.cafepress.com/seal_shop.2775290

However, the shirt seems to have a message on it below the picture in a language I don't know and I don't want to buy it without knowing what it says. Attempts to reach the seller were unproductive, and I don't even know what language it might be to look it up. Can anyone help? Thanks! Crypticfirefly 02:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I hope I'm proven wrong, but my hunch is it's not a language at all but a series of artistic markings. JackofOz 03:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't recognize it either. The other products sold there are all in English, with "SEAL is musiclover!" moink 03:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I also thought they might be "artistic markings" but some of the other designs by the same person feature other language-like markings as well. http://www.cafepress.com/teetee One other thing: for what it is worth, it looks like the artist might live in Hong Kong. Crypticfirefly 03:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Could it be Arabic ? StuRat 18:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It is definitely not Arabic. First thing that leaps to my mind is possibly a highly-stylized form of Japanese kana syllabary symbols.... AnonMoos 19:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Or Chinese? Septentrionalis 22:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

According to Wictionary, this is the Japanese for 'seal': 海豹 (あざらし); おっとせい. I think can see a similarity, can you? -LambaJan 04:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

No. Although azarashi in hiragana あざらし and katakana アザラシ are written by four letters, I don't think it looks similar. --Kusunose 03:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Geir Hilmar Haarde

How do you pronounce Haarde in the Icelandic foreign minister's name? I've been able to work out how Geir and Hilmar are pronounced, so that's no problem. But also, as the name isn't a patronymic, is it still wrong to refer him as "Mr Haarde"? How should he be referred in short?

Thanks. 14:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I do not know Icelandic, but, from that article, I would guess that /keiːr ˈhɪːlmar ˈhauːrtɛ/ is the right pronunciation — if aa represents á. — Gareth Hughes 23:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's an Icelandic surname, originally. "Haarde" sounds Danish/Norwegian to me, "Harðe" would be Icelandic. That'd make the "aa" an "å" and thus /oː/. --BluePlatypus 14:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, the article in the Icelandic Wikipedia calls him Geir throughout. — Gareth Hughes 23:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I know it's customary to use first names in Iceland, since last names are just patronyms and not proper last names at all. That said, Haarde certainly doesn't look like a canonical Icelandic patronym (since it doesn't end in -son), making me wonder if perhaps the gentleman is actually a Norwegian or Dane or something who has moved (or whose parents moved) to Iceland. Angr/talk 14:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It could easily be a Norwegian (or Danish) name. In Norway, the first vowel could be pronounced like the a in hard (if read as two a's) or like the a in ball (if read as old transcription of the letter å). Impossible to say from the spelling alone. The guy has appeared in Norwegian media a couple of times, but I do not remember how they pronounced his name. From my knowledge of Icelandic (pretty sparse), the h should be pronounced like in hit, the rd like in hard but with a rolling r, and the e like in head. Jørgen 21:18, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it "will be open" or "will be opened"?

Hi, my friend raised this question out of the blue and we were all arguing over it. She mentioned that she saw a signage on a gate that read, "This gate will be open from 10am to 2pm". Which one is correct? Some of us felt that it should be "opened" not "open". Could someone kindly enlighten us? Thanks!

-Ellen

To me, "will be opened" means it keeps getting opened and closed. "Will be open" means it stays open. User:Zoe|^(talk) 17:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

As I understand the sign, the gate will be opened at 10am. It will then be open from 10am to 2pm. The sign is correct.
Slumgum 17:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This reminds me of a sign I saw which said "No parking after 11 PM". From 11 PM until when ??? StuRat 18:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I say "correct either way" for the gate sign. You can view the owners' action of "opening the gate from 10 AM to 2 PM" as a single unit and put it in the passive, "will be opened". Or the sign can describe the state of the gate, "will be open". For the parking sign, you could make a claim that it means until midnight, but I very much doubt that was the intended meaning! Probably this is a place where nobody would be arriving to park at night anyway, and the endpoint of the period just isn't important. --Anonymous, 18:27 UTC, March 13, 2006.

And what about the redundant signs that say "No trespassing without permission"? Why doesn't anybody change those? (Incidentally, I remember a real-life joke I read a while back. A fast food chain put up a poster saying "Chicken Wings! Their here!" After some complaints, the sign was changed to "Chicken Wings! There here!" After even more complaints were received, the restaurant gave up and finally posted "Chicken Wings! Now here!") Igor the Lion^(Roar!) 21:06, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Long and ineffective sign: "No trespassing. All violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law."

Short, but rather effective, sign: "All trespassers will be fully violated."

StuRat 21:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm always bothered by signs that say tautologously "No admittance to unauthorised persons". —Blotwell 06:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a real difference in English between 'will be open' and 'will be opened'. Certain verbs (stative verbs) take a form of the verb 'to be' and with an adjectival form of the verb (like 'it is open', with base form, or 'they were finished' and 'we are closed', with the past participle). This describes the state of the verb (being open, being finished). On the other hand, the form of the verb 'to be' with the past participle signifies the passive voice (this can be confusing if a verb has its stative meaning with the past participle too). Thus, 'it is opened' describes the act of something being opened, not the state of it being open. The difficulty lies in the opposite 'being closed' being used to describe both the state and the action of being closed. For example,

1. The shopping centre will be opened by the mayor tomorrow — the act of opening.
2. The restaurant will be closed by the health inspector — the act of closing.
3. The shop will be open from eight o'clock — the state of being open.
4. The restaurant will be closed tomorrow — the state of being closed.

Therefore, seing as the sign (not 'a signage', please!) informs about when the gate will be in a state of being open, rather than when it will be being opened (by someone), it is more correct to say 'will be open'. Of course 'No trespassing without permission' is just a nonsense: if you have permission, you are not trespassing. The 'Chicken Wings' sign simply shows the inability to see the difference between the three homophones 'their', 'there' and 'they're' (meaning 'they are'). — Gareth Hughes 22:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

For me, saying "the gate will be opened from 10am to 2pm" suggests that it will take 4 hours to open the gate (it must be one bloody big gate then). --Dangherous 23:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• That's how I'd interpret it too. To repeat the above in fewer words: The questioner is confusing "open" with "opened", probably because of the "will be", which gives associations to the future perfect tense of the verb ("The gate will be opened"). However, in that context (as a verb) it means that the action of opening the gate will proceed during that time. Whereas what is usually meant is "open", the adjective, a description of the state of the gate during that time. --BluePlatypus 19:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Boom,Bang....POP

Words such as Bang, Pop, Boom are so descriptive of the sound they describe it is difficult to imagine another language deviating from their use. How do other languages handle the description of specific sounds? Have other languages arrived at similar words independently from English?

Thank you.

The article Onomatopoeia may give you some background. There's a link there to a useful page for international onomatopoeia.
Slumgum 20:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

For an example on how differently speakers of other languages can interpret the same sound, see Oink. GeeJo _{(t) (c)} • 23:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Not relevant, but amazing that we have stuff like List of animal sounds. Now could you find that in the Encyclopaedia Brittanica? --Halcatalyst 05:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, you certainly couldn't hear them, but then that's a possibility of the Internet that hasn't been tapped here yet - or is that another article? DirkvdM 05:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• Somebody would have to do the work ;-). --Halcatalyst 23:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I just happen to know that in certain parts of spain Cockadoodledoo is kirikirah. Really interesting how culture affects language. Liz

Kikirikí or quiquiriquí, to be more precise ;) --RiseRover|^talk 13:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

In Aristophanes, the frogs make the noise 'Kekekekex koax koax'. Maid Marion 15:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• Rooster talk in French is something like ki-ki-ri-ku. Which to me sounds more accurate than cockadoodledo. --Halcatalyst 23:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, cockadoodledo in Frech is "Cocoriko". Spanish (in southern Spain at least) is "Kikiriki". A language very rich with Onomatopoeia is Japanese. They have one for almost every action or event, including smiling ("Niko") or looking at something ("Jii" or "Jitto")... Besides, they do not hesitate to use them in everyday speech. For instance, they can say "He was *niko-niko* at me" instead of "He was smiling at me", or "He was *jirojiro* at me" instead of "He was staring at me"... As for the animals, well, cows go "Mo", cats go "nyaa", dogs "wan", pigs say "buu", frogs "kerokero" and roosters "kokekokkoo"... oh, a lion goes "gaoooo" ^-^' A few verbs, that have evolved from Onomatopoeia to give you an idea :

• Jabujabu : to splash water
• Gabugabu : to drink water very quickly
• Katankatan : to travel on rails (sound of the train)
• Gabagaba : to be in loose clothes (sound of the clothes)
• Gakugaku : to be very tired (or to be very afraid) (sound of legs shaking)
• Uunuun : to cry out of pain
• Paripari : to eat something crunchy

It is almost never inappropriate to use these verbs (unless in a very formal context). --Sixsous 04:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Rote Grütze

What's the best way to translate de:Rote Grütze into English? It seems to be a classic dish of some sort...is it made of berries? --HappyCamper 23:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The de:Grütze article's English version is called Grits. 'Rote' means 'red', so it's a red coloured 'grits' dish.
Slumgum 23:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to say which berries it's made of, but it is made of red berries (and other red fruit) anyway. --Dangherous 23:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't appear to be anything like grits. The de:Rote Grütze article says sour cherries were standard, now raspberries and Johannisberries are also used. Rmhermen 02:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Rote Grütze isn't even remotely like grits. There is no name for it in English, so if you're thinking of translating the article, just call it Rote Grütze in English. It's a dessert made from cherries, raspberries, and red currants, and served with vanilla sauce. I think it's typical of northern Germany. I'd probably quite like it if it weren't for the cherries. Angr/talk 11:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Would't "raspberry cherry currant compote with vanilla sauce" get the job done? - Nunh-huh 17:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

German wordsquashing

Is there a term (in German or English) for the act of ramming loads of words together to make one really long word, eg. Hausaufgabenheft = homework book ? Thanks, --Dangherous 23:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Agglutination? —Keenan Pepper 23:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It's not agglutination: that refers to the property of some languages to add numerous semantic particles to words, unlike inflexion languages that may have but one semantic 'ending'. I would suggest the more prosaic word 'compounding', see compound (linguistics). — Gareth Hughes 00:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

You're right, my apologies. Compounding is good, or even wordsquashing (a self-referential adjective). —Keenan Pepper 04:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I've heard that in Turkish whole sentences can be put into one word. Is that glutinous or compounded? DirkvdM 05:50, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Turkish is an agglutinating language. Liz

Indeed. I've never heard of a glutinous language before. Angr/talk 12:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually glutinous does not refer to gluten either. This is explained in glutinous rice. Dforest 07:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

When I was in 2nd grade, I asked the teacher how to write in cursive. She said you connect the letters together. So, I wrote a whole page with all the letters connected together, not just those in the same word. It got quite a laugh from the teacher, who was more precise in her answers from then on. StuRat 22:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

When I was in tenth grade, studying Beowulf, my teacher said that a unique feature of english is it's ability to put two nouns together into a noun unit, which was called... I don't remember. Something rediculous like 'Shepherd's words' or something like that. Now I take linguistics courses at the uni. and I never came across anything like that and I don't think this feature is unique to english. -LambaJan 03:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

March 14

What are these songs, titled in English?

I just LOVE a lot of these songs on the site apparently from Hong Kong.

http://hk.geocities.com/mkwmark01/music01.htm

Here are the songs I love the most (the ones I love even better are bolded) :

10 Fiona Fung Shining Friends

15 Faye Wong Woman that Are Easily to be Hurt

25 The Wind Hills

40

52 2R The 29th Day

54

78 張德蘭 When Can We Meet Again?

102 t.A.T.u. All the Things She Said

118

123 Joey Yung My Pride

132 Yumiko Cheng Dance!

142 Cookies Easy to Cry

166 Joey Yung Lovin' U

169 Kary@Cookies Can't Hear My Heartbeat

174 Boys'Z Girls

184 Golden Snake Dances

191 Patrick Tang Piano

235 Edmond Leung Find Me

251 五月天 (I don't know what does that mean, something related to car)

259 Joey Yung The Only Thing in the World

So can anyone translate the names of these songs, please? The Chinese names will be found on the link above. Thanks. --Shultz III 06:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Found 102 - Slumgum 22:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. That's one so far. Can anyone else decipher what they know? --Shultz III 02:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

This is the google-translated version. If you need precise info, you could email the site's creator.
Slumgum 02:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Found most.

• 10 is actually sung in English, so the song name was not a translation.
• 25 (I guess) is a Japanese song, as it uses a Japanese song title.
• I don't know who sing these songs: 25, 184.
• 40 is really the song title, but I don't know the tune, sorry.
• I don't know 54.
• 78 and 251, I don't know the English names of the artist/group.
• I couldn't find 118.
• 142 is cantonese version of 10 (you knew it, right?)
• 184 is a Chinese New Year song.
• 259 is a song which is delicated to mothers

Hope you enjoy Canto-pop music.--ka hang 08:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Translation of this phrase into as many languages as possible.

Could various people help me translate this phrase into as many languages as possible? I don't trust Babelfish or its brethren. Every day in every way I am becoming better. Thank you!

Welsh: Pob dydd, ym mhob ffordd, rwy'n gwellháu.

(Latin) Omni die in omni modo melior fio. (Italian) Ogni giorno in ogni modo divento meglio (this is a wild guess!) (Classical Greek, sorry I can't do the diacritics) Παση ημερα παντως αμεινων γιγνομαι (paseh hemera pantohs amaynohn gignomai). (Modern Greek) Καθε μερα απο καθε αποψια καλυτερευω (kathe mera apo kathe apopsia kaluterevo).Maid Marion 15:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

German: Jeden Tag werde ich in jeder Hinsicht besser. —da Pete (ノート) 16:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

French: Chaque jour, de chaque manière, je deviens meilleur et meilleur. I believe this is the original version. --Anonymous, 17:00 UTC, March 14, 2006.

Yes, it's Émile Coué's old mantra. (I wonder how many hundreds of people have fruitlessly chanted that thing on their deathbed?) --BluePlatypus 18:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Original french : Tous les jours et à tous points de vue, je vais de mieux en mieux. --DLL 18:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

This is certainly far more idiomatic. --Halcatalyst 23:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. --Anon, 23:22 UTC, March 15.

Arabic: حياتي أحسن كل يوم و فى كل وجهة نظر I went off the more idiomatic one. Literally (ar->en): My life I'm improving every day and in every point of view. -LambaJan 03:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

No I think it is: كل يوم و فى كل ناحية أتحسن . You translated "in every way" as in every point of view, and "I am becoming better" as my life is getting better. CG 19:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Tagalog: Araw-araw ay gumagaling ako kahit papaano. Spanish: Todos los días, bajo todos los puntos de vista, voy de mejor en mejor. (I got this from a page about Émile Coué rather than translating it from English). --Chris S. 05:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

This would be another translation in spanish: Cada día, en todo sentido, mejoro y mejoro.--Cosmic girl 01:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Dutch: "Iedere dag word ik in ieder opzicht steeds beter". A more literal and possibly 'stronger' translation would be "Iedere dag, in ieder opzicht, word ik beter en beter". The German translation by da Pete above is rather like my first one, except that 'immer' for 'steeds' is left out. With that it'd be "Jeden Tag werde ich in jeder Hinsicht immer besser". The second Dutch version would in German be "Jeden Tag, in jeder Hinsicht, werde ich besser und besser". I bet the other languages have similar problems, with the order of the words and especially "je deviens meilleur et meilleur". The English "I am becoming better" doesn't quite sound right. "I grow better and better" might be better. Then again, it's not my first language. DirkvdM 08:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I've always heard it in English as "Every day, in every way, I am getting better and better." Angr/talk 16:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Igpay Atinlay: Everyway ayday inway everyway ayway Iway amway ecomingbay etterbay. ydnjohay alktay 16:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Serbian/Bosnian/Croatian: "Svakoga dana u svakom pogledu sve više napredujem". By the way, it's rather famous over here after Emir Kusturica's "Do You Remember Dolly Bell?" movie. Duja 17:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Danish: "Hver dag og på hver måde, bliver jeg bedre og bedre", Norwegian: "Hver dag og på hver måde, bliver jeg bedre og bedre", Swedish: "Varje dag och på varje sätt, blir jag bättre och bättre", Icelandic: "Hvern dag, á hvern hátt, líður mér betur og betur.", Hungarian: "Minden nap és minden szempontból egyre jobban és jobban vagyok”, Russian: "Каждый день, во всех отношениях, я становлюсь лучше и лучше" --BluePlatypus 20:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew: כל יום בכל אורח אני יותר ויותר טוב

Traditional Chinese: 每一天我都用不同方法令自己不斷進步。 Simplified Chinese: 每一天我都用不同方法令自己不断进步。 --ka hang 06:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Tamil: ovvoru naaLum ovvoru vaziyilum naan munnaeRi varukiRaen. In Tamil script: ஒவ்வொரு நாளும் ஒவ்வொரு வழியிலும் நான் முன்னேறி வருகிறேன். -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 08:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Japanese: 毎日どの場面でも私は良くなって来ています。CCLemon 13:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC) PORTUGUESE (BRASILIAN): Todo dia, a cada momento estou ficando melhor.

How do I write this in Esperanto?

"This book contains the notes of Jimmy Noodle on the subject of ESPERANTO. March 15, 2006." also, how do I say "I am a student of the Esperanto language." (My guess is: Mi estas ??? la lingvo Esperant.)

• (Chi-)tiu libro enhavas la notojn de Jimmy Noodle pri Esperanto.
• Lauvorte: Mi estas studanto de Esperanto. = Mi studas Esperanton.

In writing, proper accents should be used instead of ASCII transliteration; the sentences should start "(Ĉi)-tiu..." and "Laŭvorte:...".--Prosfilaes 20:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

oppposite of misogyny

What is the opposite of mysogyny? If misogyny is the hatred of women, is there a word which describes a hatred of men?

misandry. - Nunh-huh 17:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Opposite of misogyny would be philogyny. Hatred of men would be misandry (not sure if this exists, but if it doesn't, let's coin it). Maid Marion 18:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Does that mean that the opposite of misandry is "philandry"? And is that where "philanderer" came from? No help from the article. I suspect I'm right. But how curious. At its most basic level, philandering is about men bedding women. But "philandry" would seem to indicate a love of men. And it doesn't say who by. Could be by women, or by men. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but how did the meaning become changed, from the aggressive sex-warrior, to this metrosexual receptacle of the desires of others? JackofOz 12:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Jack, Chambers dictionary says that it literally means 'lover of men' but is misapplied to mean 'loving man', and is apparently used as a proper name of a lover in Greek literature. Can't recall coming across any such character in Greek lit, but no doubt he appears in some comedy or other. Maid Marion 14:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "misandry" is a word: I confirmed it before I answered. -Nunh-huh 19:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

We even have an article about misandry. —Keenan Pepper 03:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Say, might the word perchance be 'misandry'? DirkvdM 08:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The opposite of hatred of women would be love of women. Men and women aren't opposites, they're complementary. And what love of women is called depends on whether you're one yourself. DirkvdM 08:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

This is a general problem when people speak of "opposites". In this case the original poster specified what sort of "opposite" was wanted. --Anon, 23:23 UTC, March 15, 2006.

Yes, he did, and you should be ashamed of yourself. The answer is 'feminism', or 'rabid feminism' if you want to really make a point. Misandry may be proper root-wise (or is that mixing Latin and Greek?) but I doubt anyone will understand it, and it certainly doesn't pack much of a punch. Black Carrot 03:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Whereas "feminism" is likely to get you punched. If you're talking with people who think that women belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, then yes, they will think that feminism and misandry are the same thing. --Prosfilaes 05:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC):::

Of course, "misandry"—while it may not be understood by some—has the benefit of actually being a correct answer to the original question. Unlike feminism. - Nunh-huh 08:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Gothic Alphabet

[Question moved here from the Help Desk by Kilo-Lima]

Hi, I do name extraction for a geneology web site, and I'm in need of a Gothic alphabet that was used in the scandanavian countries and also in Old England

Can anyone help me.

chickadeeallen

It's not clear what is wanted (can it be clarified? I assume somehow the author of a moved question is told where to find it): a font? an explanation? Check our gothic alphabet article; it has links to the Unicode code chart for Gothic encoding, and to other resources that may help, especially this one. - Nunh-huh 18:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The lead image of Blackletter shows an English example of 1407.

I think they are looking for a blackletter typeface. They would need to specify the century, however, "Old England" is a little imprecise; maybe they are looking for Early Modern English times? dab (ᛏ) 18:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the question is, either. The only alphabets used in the Scandinavian countries were the Runic alphabet, and later the Latin one. Dab is probably right in that they're looking for the gothic typeface. --BluePlatypus 18:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

To further confound confusion, in 19th-century printing terminology, "Gothic" meant "Sans-serif"... AnonMoos 21:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Jack knife

What is the origin of the word "jack knife"? Was the spelling different? Thanks. Lowell

The Online Etymology Dictionary has this to say: 1711, perhaps so called because it originally was associated with sailors. As a type of dive, from 1922. The verb is attested from 1776. --Rueckk 20:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

And sailors are all supposed to be called Jack? DirkvdM 08:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"Hello, sailor". JackofOz 09:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, there is the old term for sailor, "Jack-Tar."

The Oxford English Dictionary earliest cite for the verb form is from 1806. The OED hyphenates jack knife, though, "jack-knife". The OED also suggests that the knife etymology may come from Jock the Leg Knife, which became jocteleg, and then jackleg knife or jackleg-knife, and finally jack-knife. They also have some speculation from a 1776 document that suggested there was a Jacques de Liege knife, which became jackleg, but they cannot corroborate that speculation. They don't seem to have any substantive suggestion that it's a sailor term. They do seem to suggest that it's a US coinage, not British. Interesting question! Joshuazucker 00:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

March 15

Is it correct to write "You will be spoiled for choice" or "You will be spoilt for choice"?

If anyone can answer the above question, I will be forever grateful. —This unsigned comment is by 141.153.178.25 (talk • contribs) 04:17, 15 March 2006.

I'm not sure, but I think spoiled is more common in American English while spoilt is more common in British English. In Alabama, we would definitely say spoiled. --TantalumTelluride 04:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Both are correct; "spoilt for choice" is about 5 times more common on the Internet than "spoiled for choice", and the phrase should in any case probably be used sparingly, as it's idiomatic and the meaning may not be immediately clear to those who don't already know it. The preponderance of "spoilt" is probably because the idiom is peculiar to British English. - Nunh-huh 04:44, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

What does it mean? Is it like having an embarasse de richesses? Angr/talk 06:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. - Nunh-huh 07:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

THe idiomatic use of the verb spoil is that seen in the usage to spoil a child, meaning that it is bad for a child to receive to much of a good thing. However, spoilt for choice is only slightly negative in meaning, much like embarasse de richesses. British English does use variant spellings in -t and -ed for many past tense/participles, where American English only uses the more regular -ed form. In British English, they are virtually interchangable in those verbs that take both (e.g. burn, spell, smell). However, there is a distinct preference for one or other based on the word's grammatical use, and, oddly enough, the apparant duration of the action (the -ed form suggesting duration). — Gareth Hughes 11:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure about them being interchangeable Gareth? When using the past tense my impression is that we always (in Britain) use the form in -ed, never the form in -t. Whereas when using the participle there seems to be more variety of usage, and both forms occur. Personally, I use the -t form as the participle, and the -ed form as past tense, because it seems a useful distinction. (And while I'm on this page, are we spelling the French term correctly? I don't have a dictionary handy, but isn't the spelling 'embarras'?) Maid Marion 15:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Would that grammar was that simple! I'm afraid King Alfred burnt the cakes is more natural in British English than King Alfred burned the cakes — the latter suggesting to me that he spent some effort burning them. I do think that the -t form is used more often for the past participle, but that need not be so: After Mary had spelled all the words correctly, she moved on to the next page (perhaps because duration is a factor again). — Gareth Hughes 17:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Translation

Is there an English sentence which is NOT an idiom but which cannot be translated into another language? Ohanian 07:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Any sentence, even idioms, can be translated literally into any other language, although some languages might not have certainly technical terms that exist in English (I rather doubt that Sentinelese has a word for "high-speed modem"), and so either a loanword, a loan translation (calque), or some other work-around might be necessary for those. Idioms lose their metaphorical meaning when translated literally, and puns lose their humor when translated literally, but otherwise, no, any sentence in any language can be translated into any other. Angr/talk 08:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I have serious doubts about puns being translatable. It's not just that puns "lose their humour when translated literally". Puns cease to even be puns when divorced from their humor. The meaning of a communication is in the response it gets from the recipient. If the essential meaning isn't being communicated, can you be said to have truly translated the sentence? When considering the translation of puns, I believe it is essential to make the words the slave and the humour the master. Some would argue that this is not awhich is a translation at all, more like a paraphrase. So be it. It's a very moot point. But either way, I think you've lost too much to call it a translation. JackofOz 09:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Everything can be translated and nothing can be translated. You can't translate anything if you by translation mean conveying exactly the same meaning and connotations as the original. But that's a fundamentally flawed idea because no language is unambiguous to begin with. Different people make different associations when reading the same thing, even if it's a simple text. Not to mention things like dialects and regional variations. Naturally there are more and less ambiguous words and there are better and worse translations. But it's a pretty impossible question unless you can come up with a precise definition of what "translatable" means. --BluePlatypus 16:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Similarly to puns, any form of sentence that talks about the sound or spelling or physical appearance of the words in it will be problematic to translate. You could end up with something like "The first letter of the word was missing due to a misprint, so I couldn't tell whether it was supposed to be THOSE, TWO, FIRES, or EYES", which seems to make no sense at all. Typically what is actually done in such a case is to include explicit wording, either in a footnote or within the sentence, pointing out that the truncated word was in French and would be CEUX, DEUX, FEUX, or YEUX. But the result is no longer a literal translation.

Similar issues arise when translating poetry (what do you do if the original rhymed "eyes" with "fires") or works like La Disparition, a novel in French written without the letter E (by the way, the English version is titled A Void). Those who find this sort of thing an interesting subject should certainly take a look at Le Ton beau de Marot, a thick book by Douglas R. Hofstadter which in one sense is on the topic of how best to translate into English a single short poem in medieval French, but goes into much more than that.

--Anonyme, 23:18 UTC, 15 mars 2006. Mars, that's a planet, right?

Or a chocolate manufacturer? JackofOz 23:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Narrating difficulties pls. help

In narrating a story, are you allowed to not be a character in a story? just to make a story about a character I created to do stuff in my imaginary created worl, but Im not part of the story not a character or anyone. So can I not be a character at my story??

This is my problem I need some advice on how to narrate a good story. please reply soon.

It's allowed. In your imaginary world you are absolutely free. David Sneek 11:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

OK. If it isn't about you, it must be about other people. Them, over there. That's who the story is about. But how does that have any risk of involving you as a character? You're the writer, you get to decide what happens. You don't need permission. Check out Third Person. JackofOz 12:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• Of course you can be a first-person narrator. If you like, take a look at our very full article Narrator. --Halcatalyst 23:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't that involve the narrator in the story, at least indirectly? That seems to be the very thing the questioner does not want to do. JackofOz 23:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

A narrator can be a character in the story, but doesn't need to be. In the TV sitcom Malcolm in the Middle, for example, Malcolm frequently stops mid-scene to talk with the audience. However, other narrators aren't in the story at all. StuRat 00:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ron Howard narrates Arrested Development, but he is not a character on the show. --Nelson Ricardo 01:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Good example. StuRat 21:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

What does NNNN stand for?

In the olden days, we can see NNNN at the of a telex document. Some people are still using it at the end of press releases. What does NNNN stand for? Why is it appended to the end of a document? --Chan Tai Man 11:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

It's the "End of Message" code for telex. I don't think it stands for anything in particular. I have no idea why they chose "NNNN", but there's probably some story behind it out there. Anyone? --BluePlatypus 16:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

This makes me think of a template or placeholder for any numeric end of message code. As the use of that code may have disappeared, only the format (meaning any number from 0 to 9999) subsided. Anyone else ? --DLL 19:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

See "The NNNN... is a familiar one hole consecutive sequence which can be quickly identified as end of message by operators" at AFTN and it is also mentioned in Specific Area Message Encoding#Full Message Breakdown. hydnjo talk 00:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The ideas of using "one hole consecutive sequence" for EOM is interesting and very practical. I can concur that 'cos I have a small collection of paper tape from the time I first leant CNC programming. --Chan Tai Man 12:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Relevancy vs Relevance

please forgive me if I have done this wrong, but i am new to wiki-world :)

i searched an item for which there was no wikipedia entry, and was taken to a page with suggestions and "Relevancy", expressed as a percentage. I have never heard or seen this word before, so I searched wiktionary for "Relevancy" but was unable to find a definition. Should "Relevancy" be replaced by "Relevance" ??

Andrew

"Relevancy" is in my 1975 dictionary. Fowler (1976) says: "The OED treats -cy as the standard form. In practice they are probably equally common". Which is surprising. I agree with you, "relevance" seems to be a lot more common these days, at least in my world. But on the other hand, what about this quote from Flanders and Swann: "They said I was irrelevant. But I ain't a relephant, I'm a ... gnu". Now, I don't know about you, but I think that displays a great deal of irrelevance, or irrelevancy if you prefer. It's always good to see both sides of these sorts of questions. JackofOz 13:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"Relevancy" is in my computer's dictionary as well. (I use the New Oxford American Dictionary, Second Edition [2] that came with Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger".) "Relevancy" is listed as a derivative of "relevant". (See [3].) —OneofThem 18:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking for an idiom or phrase

I'm looking for the idiomatic word or phrase that could be used to describe overly general statements such as:

• Japanese people are better at everything.
• Everyone's favorite color is blue.
• All white people live in the USA.
• Everyone loves chocolate.

I've forgotten what it's called and haven't found anything remotely relevant in searches for things like "overly general stament". --Tifego 19:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"Generalization"? "Stereotype"? I dunno. :P —OneofThem 19:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

It's not either of those. It's something very specifically referring to the statement. --Tifego 19:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

And it is common enough that I believe there is probably a Wikipedia article on it, which I can't find because I don't know its name. --Tifego 19:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"overgeneralization" is an acceptable compound. --BluePlatypus 19:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Prejudice seems a little hard ? --DLL 19:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Er...sorry if this sounds stupid, but wouldn't generalization or universal affirmative work? If you want to be more specific, there's a lot of stuff linked in the syllogistic fallacy article. -Наташа ( ^User ♡ ^Talk ) 19:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

It is none of these mentioned so far. Sure, I could call it an overgeneralization, but that just doesn't sound as witty as using the idiom that was coined to mean this exact thing. (Especially because overgeneralization has way more syllables... it's a 2- or 3-syllable phrase.) Somebody must know this, considering how many times I've heard or read it being used... --Tifego 21:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Would it be hyperbole?--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 22:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure "stereotyping" (mentioned above) isn't what you want? --Anonymous, 23:20 UTC, March 15, 2006.

• I think you're looking for Hasty generalization. --Halcatalyst 23:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

How about Tautology? User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"blanket statement"? moink 23:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Blanket statement! I think that was it, thanks. --Tifego 00:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

(I guess I was wrong about it not being more than 3 syllables) --Tifego 22:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Avoid blanket statements  ;-) hydnjo talk 03:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew Word Meaning

What is the Literary Meaning Of this Hebrew Word "Nachshoon"?

"The boy's name Nachshon is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "adventurous, daring". --DLL 19:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I really wouldn't trust those baby name sites for accurate etymologies. The root of this name appears to be the same as the root for the word "snake" in Hebrew. But Nachshon is only a name in Hebrew (not a regular Hebrew word), to most precisely answer the question. AnonMoos 22:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The meaning of the french word juveigneurie

Hi, I am researching my family tree and have come across the word juveigneurie as in the sentence

"juveigneurie de Coataudon dont les seigneurs sont issues Des Barons de Pont de Corral, Les blaisons Des familles.,les blaisons de Coataudon sont issus du Pont-l'abbe,les blaisons des familles."

Can anyone translate this for me please. I have tried various dictionarys and Babelfish but neither can help. Thanks

Just googld for it : "Juveigneurie has nothing to do with this at all. This was a modification of Breton customary law which allowed the division of noble estates to give an inheritance to younger brothers.". The word contains roots alike juvenus (young) and seigneurie (lordship). Bla[i]sons is an heraldic sign. --DLL 21:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Not exactly the same, but the gavelkind article will give you a general idea of the system. Jameswilson 23:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

That's an interesting word, that. Had to look up the etymology, and since this is the language page, I thought I'd share it: from OE "gafol" (tribute, tax, rent) and "kind" (offspring, kin). --BluePlatypus 01:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

March 16

Looking for an illusive word

Hi, My ten year old son and I are searching for the meaning of a word. Runcible appeared in a book we are reading in this sentence, "A long way from the coast of Kansas, there is an island, a runcible island covered with forest." We have searched our dictionaries (three), and checked the search engine Ask, but the closest we have come is a runcible spoon: meaning a sharp edged fork with three broad curved prongs. However, we don't think this definition is appropriate for our purposes. Can you help us? Thank you for your efforts.

Sincerely, Tricia and Alex

Runcible is a word concocted by Edward Lear in his poem The Owl and the Pussycat: "They dined on mince, and slices of quince, / Which they ate with a runcible spoon." See runcible spoon. It's been used in other contexts as a silly nonsensical word since then. moink 01:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Is the book Solomon Leviathan's Nine-Hundred and Thirty-First Trip Around the World by Ursula K. Le Guin? --Canley 12:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I do believe the word comes from the Latin root 'runc-', meaning 'covered with weeds or plants'. CCLemon 13:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

first generation college student

As a 49 year old grandmother finally attending college online, I just learned of the Flesch-Kincaid rating. The first occasion I've had to write something for class, I typed it in MS Word and received an 'ease of reading' rating of 57 and a grade level rating of 10.2.

Should I be insulted that I apparently write on a 10th grade level?? How, exactly, should I interpret this numbers as related to my writing skills?

Bonnie Wolff

Absolutely not. Don't ever write papers just for the purpose of increasing that score. Your aim is to write papers that present your ideas clearly, flow easily, and are well organized. Something that shows you know the material, and have been thoughtful about the subject. Computers are not very good at evaluating these qualitative things. The Flesch-Kincaid rating is a score that is generated based on things like the length of the words that you use, the number of syllables, the length of your sentences, et cetera. It has no ability whatsoever to interpret the meaning behind your paper. I would take it with a grain of salt. The score is correlated with the whereabouts of academic papers - for example, if you were to analyse really scientific papers, the score tends to be quite high - perhaps due to the technical jargon used, and the lengthy/complicated sentence structure. However, none of these necessarily mean that the paper itself is of high calibre. I would talk to your professor to see if s/he has any suggestions for you instead - that feedback would be much more valuable than a number from a computer. --HappyCamper 01:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Plus, the rating is reading difficulty, not writing talent. The best writers write clear and legible prose, that can be read by anyone. Newspapers, for instance, generally try for about an 8th grade level. Simple, clear writing, with no more complexity than required to get your brilliant ideas across, is best. moink 01:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, seems like moink beat me at saying what I was going to say while I was writing; that it's a readability test, not a test of the quality of writing. For comparison, feeding a famous Hemingway line into the thing, it gives a Flesch-Kincade grade level of 7. Needless to say, I don't think anyone would say Hemingway was writing at a 7th grade level. (He is, however, known as a writer who used short sentences) I wouldn't say that all the best writers write clearly and legibly (James Joyce immediately springs to mind). But for someone who isn't a master writer, writing in a simple and concise style is much harder than writing long convoluted sentences. On the other hand, being too concise doesn't make it easy either. Prose with no repetition and redundancy is rather hard to read, since you need to pay attention or you'll miss something. --BluePlatypus 01:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Avoid any temptation to go back over what you've written and throw in a few unnecessary long words just to try and sound more intellectual. The aim is clarity. Jameswilson 04:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

But certainly go back over what you've written. You can almost always say it better (clearer, simpler, more concisely etc) than the way it first comes out onto the paper. JackofOz 05:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Technical manuals are typically written at about the 10th grade level. Why? Is it because technicians are no better educated than that? No. It's because in any writing the most important necessity is to communicate. You want people to understand what you have to say. A good rule is to keep it as simple as possible, but no simpler. Maybe you have a gift in that regard. Don't lose it. --Halcatalyst 22:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

A question about a name...

I have come across the name Istara and i want to know the meaning. I know nothing about the name. I would like to though . Please let me know. Thank you.

At least it is a name for a basque cheese (Googlimages). Basque is a very lonely language. --DLL 17:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that it may be a variant form of Ishtar, but I couldn't find anything authoritative to back that up in a brief search. Chuck 16:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

How to change the word "Black" to "White" changing only one letter at a time...

Hi, I remember seeing his once, a sequence of words that changed from Black to White with only one letter changing at a time and each intermediate word a valid english word.

A sequence something like :

Black Block Clock .. .. .. .. Chile While White

Except for Black and White I have just gessed the rest as an example. From memory it was about 10-12 steps....

Would love a solution , I have worked on it but cannot make the two ends mee! Many Thanks, Steve L. 219.88.201.238 Type 08:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)08:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)~

BLACK, BLOCK, CLOCK, CLICK, CHICK, THICK, THINK, THINE, WHINE, WHITE. --Canley 08:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

That kind of puzzle is called a word ladder; some say that Lewis Carroll invented them. There are programs to do them on computers; one of them gives the solution "white, whine, chine, chink, clink, click, clack, black". "Chine" is definitely a word, though not a common one. -Nunh-huh 08:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

What does "Hame Baham" mean?

I think it's farsi. If no one knows the answer, could somebody please direct me to a place where I could get an answer?

Beacharn 12:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Can you give some more background on this? It will be easier to search/ask about if I can be sure of the language and know a bit about the transliteration, context, etc. -LambaJan 22:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem with Kannada fonts

Dear sir

I ma not able to see the Kannada fonts in the Kannada home page

Please help me

Regards

Kumarm

Please suitly emphazi your question. Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 14:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

For the benefit of myself and any other new users of Wikipedia, could someone please explain the origin and meaning of this 'suitly emhpazi' joke. I just don't get it. Thanks. Maid Marion 15:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

To suitly emphazi means to be more clear or to offer more detail. The expression first appeared here. David Sneek 16:00, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks David. Maid Marion 16:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

You know, if you tell everyone the inside joke it's not as funny. But interestingly enough I remember when that one came up, but have never gone back to check it. My memory of it was certainly different from the reality to the point that I initially thought you didn't point to the first use. But I'd also point out that 'the phrase' is used in different contexts than you've pointed out. It is also used for anything from simply making fun of typos to random incomprehensible statements. As my last pointless point, the phrase now gets 14,700 google hits. - Taxman ^Talk 21:20, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

That's a very strange Google result: there are only ten actual results given. If you "repeat the search with the omitted results included", you go down to six results. It also suggests you search for "supply emphazie" instead, though that gets you nowhere.

And while we're on it, an in-joke among regulars is funny; an in-joke used to mock clueless newbies (as here, and increasingly often) is not funny. Mark^{your words} 21:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

In this case it wasn't the newbie who was clueless, by the way; the question makes perfect sense. David Sneek 16:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

• Agreed. It's fine to have inside jokes, but not ones that make fun of questioners. Though many are, why should we assume that any particular inquirer is stupid or malicious? Aren't we here to help? --Halcatalyst 22:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

When the original questioner asked us to "suitly emphazi" the answer, I believe they meant we should "suitably emphasize" it, meaning provide a Wikilink to the article which answers his question. Thus, I use the term to mean "provide a Wikilink". StuRat 23:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, to answer the real question, this page gives instructions to install Kannada, Telugu, Tamil and Sanskrit fonts. Here is another. David Sneek 16:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

And there's Wikipedia:Enabling complex text support for Indic scripts that you may have to do after installing the fonts. That is linked to from the bottom of all the tables in articles on Indic languages, including Kannada language. - Taxman ^Talk 21:20, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Latin

Hi. I am a student in high school and I have already taken two years of Latin. I am thinking about taking third year Latin. so what benefit can I get from Latin?

Well, besides improving your knowledge of the language and introducing you to some of the finest literature of Western civilization, it will improve your ability to understand how languages in general work. Angr/talk 16:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I seem to remember that someone (can anyone remind me who it was?) described Virgil's hexameters as 'the stateliest measure ever moulded by the lips of man'. That's what you can look forward to enjoying if you persist with your Latin - go for it! Maid Marion 16:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, they're not as good as Homer's. But if you keep taking Latin now, when you're in college you can take Greek, and then you'll be in for a real treat! Angr/talk 19:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I concur with the sentiments expressed directly supra (which comment, without your having taken Latin, wouldn't be as comprehensible), but I write only to say that I believe the quote apropos of Virgil to have come from Tennyson, from whom sundry quotes may be found at this Wikiquote page. Joe 20:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Homer is just grand, of course, but when it comes to 'stateliness' I would say Virgil's hexameters have the edge - Homer's trip along more briskly with a higher count of dactyls. Thanks for the tip about Tennyson - I'll check it out.Maid Marion 08:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

In other words, Virgil cheats more often by pretending to be writing dactylic hexameter when mostly he's just using spondees. Angr/talk 10:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Extraordinary view! I'll assume you're joking. Maid Marion 10:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you were right about Tennyson: http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/t/tennyson/alfred/lang/chapter9.html Maid Marion 09:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It'll be very useful when you go to Latin America. --Chris S. 23:18, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure you're aware that the above comment is probably a joke. I've taught Latin, so I guess I'm qualified to answer. The fact that you're asking what good Latin will be to you suggests to me that you may not want to take Latin and are being pressured to do so by parents or other authority figures. If you're going to take it just because you've been told to do so, it probably won't be much value to you except to fulfull a graduation requirement or to look good on an application to a selective institution of higher learning, and it may help you on the SAT. Reading widely among "literary" works in English would probably help you more with the SAT, however. If this is what you want, ask your English teacher for a list. If you're interested in the subject, third year Latin, which is usually an introduction to literature including selected readings in Caesar, Vergil, and Catullus, will help in your understanding of literature and grammar in English as well as Latin. Doctors and lawyers no longer need to learn Latin, so if you're thinking of legal or medical education, don't feel compelled to learn Latin. Professional schools will teach you the terminology you need to know for the profession you choose. Ultimately, you should take elective classes because you like the subject matter. If you don't like the subject, take something you like more. Brian G. Crawford 23:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Literary Meaning of " Ashkelon "

what is the Literary Meaning of the hebrew word "Ashkelon" ?

Do you mean the literal meaning? In Hebrew it's just a place name, but it's not of Hebrew origin, so within Hebrew it doesn't meaning anything other than "the city of Ashkelon". It may have meant something in the language of the Philistines, though. Angr/talk 19:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

It's easier to just say 'suitly emphazi' when it doesn't make sense, you know. ;) Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 21:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but when one says it to an unlogged-in user, one could be considered to be biting the newcomers. Angr/talk 21:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Amen. --Halcatalyst 21:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

"Hate it when" or "Hate when"

I've seen people using, for example, "I hate it when ____ happens", but I've also seen "I hate when ____ happens". From my portuguese background, the second version seems more natural, but I don't really know if there's any issue here. Which is correct, if any? ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 22:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

They both sound normal to me. I think the first one is more common in spoken English, and the second one is more common in writing, from what I've heard of them. --Tifego 22:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, "I hate it when" expresses more anger than "I hate when" because of "hate it" being emphasized. --Tifego 22:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

"I hate it when that happens" sounds natural to me; "I hate when that happens" sounds either uneducated or pseudo-uneducated (as a joke). Angr/talk 06:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Really? I've always thought it was the opposite. "I hate when that happens" sounds unnaturally academic or snobbish to me. In any case I'd never use "I hate when", or indeed "I hate" anything... --Tifego 07:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I hear both all the time. I've never drawn a distinction between them. Bhumiya/Talk 04:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Grammar nitpick: comprises of, comprised of are wrong

There are MANY wikipedia articles that use a phrase like "X is comprised of Y and Z" which, as far as I know, is incorrect.

It could be "X is composed of Y and Z" or "X comprises Y and Z" but I think it's always wrong to say "comprises of" or "comprised of".

Before I go hunting (using the handy search tool) and fixing every occurrence of that phrase, could someone who is more expert in grammar please let me know if I'm right to be correcting all these?

For a few examples: The title of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_whose_titles_are_comprised_solely_of_numbers should be changed to "...whose titles comprise solely numbers" or "...whose titles are composed solely of numbers."

I also just edited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_rocket with this change, before realizing (1) I might be wrong, and (2) it might occur many other places which ought to be changed too ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayagada should be "comprises tribals" instead of "comprises of tribals"

And plenty more ...

Thanks,

Joshuazucker 23:00, 16 March 2006 (UTC) Joshua Zucker

Let's see what Google comes up with... there's this. Also, "composed of" got about 1.3 times as many results as "comprised of" (which, while more than 1, is much lower than it normally should be if "comprised of" is widely considered incorrect). I think it's not correct English, but its use is so widespread that it might be considered correct sometime. --Tifego 23:11, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

This is interesting, "In the 1960s, 53 percent of the Usage Panel found this usage unacceptable; in 1996, only 35 percent objected". So it's abating. While my first impression is that you're correct, I'm not sure I'd bother with changing it now. --BluePlatypus 23:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

It's always wrong to say "comprises of", but not always wrong to say "comprised of". It depends on the grammatical context. I would accept the following variants:

• "X consists of A and B"
• "X is composed of A and B"
• "A and B comprise X", and its passive counterpart
• "X is comprised of A and B".
• "X comprises A and B" is often heard, and the meaning is clear enough, although literally it means the opposite of "A and B comprise X".

But the following are definitely wrong:

• "X comprises of A and B"
• "X comprised of A and B". JackofOz 23:18, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the tips! Maybe I'm just being an old fogie on this one. I try to resist that. (I've gotten over split infinitives and now a preposition is something I can end a sentence with.) So I'll just let this one go, and allow "comprise" to start down its slippery slope to becoming interchangeable with "compose". Now, don't get me started on the distinction between "use" and "utilize" ...

Again, thanks,

Joshuazucker 23:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

There's a difference? I always that "utilize" was a complete synonym of "use", used by people who didn't think "use" sounded fancy enough. Years ago when I worked as an editor at a translation company, we had a Japanese-English translator who loved the word "utilize"; we always told the typists to just do a global search-and-replace to change every instance of "utiliz(e/ed/es/ing)" to "us(e/ed/es/ing)". Angr/talk 06:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I actually got that question quite recently. Personally I feel there's a slight difference in the connotations. "Utilize" is more like "make use of", whereas "use" is more direct. Same meaning, but a little difference in the strength of the activity implied. --BluePlatypus 16:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

On the use/utilize distinction, the OED says "To make or render useful; to convert to use, turn to account." I tell people that "utilize" means "make use of something that would otherwise be wasted", which seems close enough to the OED definition, and also close enough to BluePlatypus's explanation. But this is a distinction on its way out, I fear, as Angr suggests above: soon enough, "utilize" will only mean "use, and I want to sound fancier or smarter than other people". It makes me sad when the language loses useful distinctions in this way. Joshuazucker 23:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I generally hear "utilize" as a polite, formal, or emphatic form of "use". Although some people use it pedantically or to sound mock-pedantic, I think most people simply employ it to stress the verb or maintain a certain rhythm. Bhumiya/Talk 04:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

No need to be sad, Josh. It's the normal state of affairs. Vocabulary is a buyer's market, as soon as people need a new word for something, it'll pop into existence. You can always borrow a word, or start bruking an old one. ("to bruke" being a modernized version of O.E. "brucan" that I just invented) --BluePlatypus 21:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, now that I read it, I remembered "bruke" is already "to use" in Norwegian. Heh. Although I was thinking of using English pronunciation (rhymes with "duke") and monosyllabic, not duosyllabic like Norwegian. --BluePlatypus 21:48, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Old English brūcan never entirely died out, but it did change meaning. It's still barely alive in the form brook with the meaning "tolerate", as in "Jimbo will brook no criticism of Wikipedia on user pages." Angr/talk 23:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

March 17

German

I have always wondered why the German language has 2 ways to say Saturday? Can anyone help me out? thanks Zach 01:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know that! :o (Well, I only took one year of German. :P ) I only learned Samstag. Ah, I see that the German Wikipedia article also mentions Sonnabend. I've never heard that before. here's the Google English translation of the German article on Saturday, if that helps. —OneofThem 02:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It means Saturday?! I always thought that it was an abbreviation of "Sunday night"! Then again, I thought "fünf vor halb drei" was a particularly odd way to say 2.25.
Slumgum 02:32, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if there's a good answer to the question why German has two words for "Saturday", but it is indeed the case. In general, Sonnabend is used more in the north and east, and Samstag more in the south and west. I have the impression that Samstag is spreading at the expense of Sonnabend (but no data to back that up); if my vague impression is correct, maybe in a hundred years or so everyone will say Samstag. Angr/talk 06:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a dialect difference, isn't it? The same as Austrians use "Jänner" for January, instead of "Januar". -- Arwel (talk) 14:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Or how some Americans say "soda" and others say "pop"? :P —OneofThem 00:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems like too much of a diff just to be a result of differences in pronunciation, to me. StuRat 16:32, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure, and there are hundreds of similar examples between British English and American English, and probably dozens within American English. Angr/talk 14:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

There is an explanation for this here. Sonnabend was introduced by Saint Boniface as an alternative to Samstag, which ultimately derives from the word Sabbath. The article conjectures that it might have been coined because it was seen as purely Christian (as opposed to the "Jewish" Samstag). --Rueckk 16:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Sonnabend is similar to Mittwoch -- a Christian substitute for the original pagan name, which survives in English "Wednesday" (after Wodan). So only five-and-a-half days of the week are still pagan in German (while in English all seven days are pagan). --Chl 02:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

German Song

My brother, a few years ago, told me about a German hard rock song that, though intended to sound as angry as humanly possible (and Germans can do it), actually translates to a cookie recipe. The refrain is, apparently, "Don't use eggs." Anybody recognize it? Black Carrot 03:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't immediately recognize the song, but your description sounds a lot like Knorkator -- Ferkelparade π 10:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I know another example of a song which has a mood that doesn't match the lyrics: "Come Saturday Morning", which, from the lyrics sounds like planning a fun time with a friend, but is made sad by the tone: [4]. StuRat 16:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It's highly probable this is a case of misheard lyrics. You don't know anything else about the song? Dforest 17:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It's Die Eier von Satan. --Chl 02:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Referencing your prevous work

Hi

I was wondering how I would site my previous unpublished work in an APA format.

Thanks you.

Shara

• Why would you want to cite your own unpublished work? Just publish it. Then, next time, you can cite it. --Halcatalyst 05:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
• Wait, I think I see what you're talking about: you wrote a paper for school and want to cite what you said in an earlier paper. Well, again, you could just say it again. Nothing to cite, since it's not available in the public domain. That's what citation is for. Just don't submit the same paper as original work for another class. That's cheating... cheating yourself, at least. --Halcatalyst 05:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, citing one's own (or other people's) unpublished work is done all the time. The format to use is:

Einstein, A. (2005). The kinetic properties of yellow snow. MS, Princeton University.

(MS stands for manuscript.) Ideally, the paper has the date of the final draft written at the top together with the title and author's name. If you have uploaded a PDF of the manuscript to the Internet, making it available for anyone to download (always a good idea until it gets published), then you can include the URL in the citation too:

Einstein, A. (2005). The kinetic properties of yellow snow. MS, Princeton University. Available online at 
http://www.princeton.edu/~einstein/yellowsnow.pdf.

Hope that answers your question! Angr/talk 06:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I've seen in press plenty of times as well, indicating that it's been submitted but not published. (although I suspect it hasn't been submitted yet in a lot of cases) --BluePlatypus 16:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd only use in press if it's been accepted for publication but hasn't appeared yet. If it's been submitted but not yet accepted (or rejected), I'd say under review for publication and give the name of the journal. Angr/talk 16:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it only my browser (Firefox), or the Wiki scripts, or rules not easy to relate to ... nowiki text (courier font) using more than one line goes unendlessly to the right of the page.

Do people have to mind <br>s ? Where is this talked about ? --DLL 17:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, but I put a hard return in my monospaced text above so it wouldn't happen. Is it happening for you anyway? Angr/talk 18:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Ability to relate to others

Can someone give me a paragraph on the above with no more than 150 words

Try looking up empathy and theory of mind (third definition). StuRat 16:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

• Do your own homework - if you need help with a specific part or concept of your homework, feel free to ask, but please do not post entire homework questions and expect us to give you the answers.

If you need research help, please be more specific about what you're looking for. Dforest 10:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You could always try the old (fictional) standby: "Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others Ability to relate to others". Thhat's not quite enough words, but you get the idea.. --Halcatalyst 14:29, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I think you missed that the specification is no more than 150 words. Therefore, I suggest the following:

"The ability to relate to others is important."

See? A paragraph with no more than 150 words! Chuck 16:44, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

If your teacher is a Wikipedia addict, mind his words : No personal research! Cite your sources! As they say in Wikipedia's RD, "The ability to relate to others is important." --DLL 17:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

SPAMMONKEY

I would like to put forward a new word - Spammonkey (could be hyphentated or perhaps just one M, hmmm).

This would describe someone who leaves themselves open to being spammed by leaving their e-mail address in very public places. At the end of their question for example.

Any comments much appreciated.

Thanks,Dan (14.04 GMT) <e-mail address removed> just kidding, pleae accept my apologises dandfcsdfg)

You're welcome to do that, but know it doesn't make any difference that you posted the idea here. New words are not proposed and accepted or rejected by some group or body; they just come to be, like the weather. The exception might be if you had the money for some expensive advertising campaign, but it's usually the other way around: The ad is based on some "hot" word that's already current among "fashionable" people. --Halcatalyst 14:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I would prefer Spam Viking. David Sneek 18:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if a word which already has over 800 Google hits could really, truly, be called "new" though perhaps the meaning is. Notinasnaid 20:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if some neologisms (those not invented in advertising agencies) have the word first and the meaning later. What I mean is, somebody comes up with an apropos word and no doubt attaches a meaning to it, but as it spreads the meaning that sticks only gradually develops. This sort of distortion is a normal part of communication; see the Telephone game. --Halcatalyst 00:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Area names in England that end in sex

  Dear sir 
         can you please tell me why Essex,Wessex,Sussex,Middlesex
  all end with the same letters
                              Pauline Moran

The -sex in those names comes from the Saxons; the counties were originally basically called "East-sax(onland)", "West-sax(onland)", "South-sax(onland)", "Middle-sax(onland)". Angr/talk 15:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Middlesex sounds like a good place for transexuals to live. :-) StuRat 16:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Intersexuals - See Middlesex (novel). Rmhermen 18:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Reminds me of the parent who said "I have 3 children, one of each sex". JackofOz 02:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Notice there was no "North-sax(onland)"? The population must have all died out.CCLemon 06:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Box Symbols within Article

I'm new to Wikipedia. The "Sudoku" article contains (数身に限る), such as in Introduction The name Sudoku is the Japanese abbreviation of a longer phrase, "suuji wa dokushin ni kagiru (数字は独身に限る),"

What does that mean? Is it garbage text, or am I missing something?

RSVP, Karen

It's Japanese. If you used a Japanese font you could see it (although since you aren't using a Japanese font you probably don't want to see it). Mark^{your words} 17:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You would need to download the Japanese font to see it. Otherwise, it appears as boxes or question marks, typically. StuRat 01:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

'suuji' means 'numbers', 'dokushin' means 'single', and 'kagiru' means 'limited to, limit to'. It's a catch phrase that plays on the word 'single', both in the sense that the player does it on his/her own, and the fact that all numbers have to be single digits. 'Numbers limited to singles', or something like that, is the actual literal translation of it. CCLemon 06:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't read the title of the post before my reply.....CCLemon 06:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

correct pronounciation of the Mira River

I am part of a chorus in the U.S. and we are rehearsing to perform "A Song for Mira" at our next concert. I would like to know how to correctly pronounce the name of this river. Thank you. M. Morgan, Washington state

I looked for an actual pronunciation in a few encyclopedias, etc., but couldn't find anything so settled for actually listening to a recording of the song. I used a recording by John Allan Cameron, who appears to be the first person to record it. He very clearly pronounces it like my-ruh: (IPA: [maɪrʌ]). —Seqsea (talk) 07:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization after dash

I've been wondering for a while, does a dash after a certain term indicate a new sentence? For example, should it be:
John Doe - a professor at TAU
or
John Doe - A professor at TAU
?

-- Y Ynhockey ^(Talk) Y 21:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. --Anonymous, 00:40 UTC, March 18, 2006

No. In your context, dashes are substitutes for commas and merely seperate an appositive. In other words, both of the following are correct, though I would personally recommend the first. John Doe, a proffessor at TAU, likes Jujyfruits. Johne Doe- a proffessor at TAU- likes Jujyfruits. (Of course, non of this matters if you are merely making a list with sentence fragments.) Dar-Ape 01:51, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

If it's in a list, either is correct, since you can use Title Case If You Want. If it's in a normal paragraph, I'd say only the lower case 'a' should be used.--Slumgum | yap | stalk | 19:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

March 18

What Does This Mean?

Hi, Im James... Can you please tell me What Does "Link To The Notation of Change" mean? It's in a WAPTEEL english assignment I must do and it's the 4th Teel..or L I think..Please help!!

What in the world is WAPTEEL? —Keenan Pepper 05:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

A Google search shows exactly 4 hits, all of them from a single post on an Aussie students' forum. [5] Apparently it's a mnemonic used for writing critical essays.

Here is what it says about the "L" step:

L - ( link ) and here you link the example back to your I.J thesis!! woo hoo!! essay done use the TEEL part for every new technique use the WAP for your intro, then just put in a conclusion

"I.J" refers to "Imaginative Journey", apparently the student's assigned topic.

This may or may not answer your question. Can you elaborate on your instructions? Dforest 05:42, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Based on what I managed to parse from the link posted above, I'd say that in the L portion of your essay, you should explain the significance of what you've just written about. For example: Your thesis is "Kangaroos are the coolest." So, following this little WAPTEEL thing:

What - Kangaroos (and their coolness)

Audience - Everyone

Purpose - To show how kangaroos are cool; alternatively: because earth needed an animal that hops and has a pouch. (The poster seems to mention both of these understandings of "purpose".)

Techniques - Kangaroos have pouches; kangaroos look cute as heck; kangaroos can kick your butt; kangaroos say wtf mate.

Example - Provide specific examples of kangaroos doing all of the above—movies, books, humorous anecdotes, etc.

Effect - How does the coolness of kangaroos impact other things? Having kangaroos makes Australia cool by association. The use of kangaroos in movies provides great comic relief, as well as the coveted aw-factor.

Link - Why is it important that kangaroos are cool and have an impact on other things? (Note that this is different from Effect, because instead of just pointing out how kangaroos are cool and how they impact things, you're explaining why people should care.) Since kangaroos are so cool, it is theoretically possible to use them to great economic and political advantage. If only Australia realized this, it would easily render all other countries in the world powerless. (The point is that you take your evidence and show why it matters in terms of your thesis.) I apologize for the length of this and hope that it has been at least partially helpful :) —Seqsea (talk) 08:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Any Thai translators?

Hi, I'm trying to put together a page on Penguin Villa, but virtually all information is in Thai. I found a bio on this site, but I can't find any way to reliably translate it myself. If anyone can help, I've pasted the biography into the article's talk page. Thanks! Bhumiya/Talk 04:02, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Latin name for new species

Not sure if this question is better put to the science or language reference desk, but here it is: I'm writing a sequence that features microscopic machines, like the nano assemblers spoken about by Eric Drexler et al, and would like it if I could use a Latin species name to refer to them.

A strange question, I know, but if anyone out there thinks it might be fun to come up with a few suggestions, I'd be most appreciative.

Adambrowne666 21:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

That

Is "The reality is most colleges only send representatives to Venice once a year," or "The reality is that most colleges only send representatives once a year" correct and why? This is one of the few aspects of grammar that has thus far been beyond me. Theshibboleth 22:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Either. No reason, that's just how it is. Mark^{your words} 22:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd be more comfortable with the first one being written, "The reality is, most colleges only send representatives to Venice once a year." I don't think anyone will complain about either wording, though. If you're asking which is using completely proper grammar, I'd bet neither is, but I couldn't say why. Black Carrot 23:38, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Both versions are fine. In the first one, the relative pronoun is understood. In the second one, the relative pronoun is expressed explicitly. In some cases it is confusing to leave out realtive pronouns, but other times they can make a sentence difficult to read. In this case, either version is perfectly fine. --TantalumTelluride 23:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

How did Harry Houdini pronounce his Hungarian last name?

Harry Houdini was originally known as Erich Weiss/Weisz. (He was born "Weisz," but after he came to the United States his family usually used the spelling "Weiss.") If this were a German name it would be pronounced "Vice." I don't know Hungarian pronunciation, however, so I don't know how the name sounds in Hungarian. Does anyone know? (You can e-mail me if you like.)

sz is pronounced "ss". "w" does not seem to exist in Hungarian[6]. My guess is either "Wayss" or (more likely) "Vayss". "Vice" (or potentially "Veess") is another likely possibility. The Jade Knight 00:16, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, Rachel Weisz pronounces it 'vice'. I suspect that Harry did too, regardless of what his ancestors may have done. Mark^{your words} 01:27, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Scott Schoeneweis (Showin' wice) is an example of someone choosing to avoid the original pronunciation of his surname.-- Slumgum | yap | stalk | 01:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It is actually a German name. "Weisz" is just a Hungarianized spelling of "Weiss" (presumably the original to the original), so they can be pronounced the same. Although whether a Hungarian would kind of depends on the speaker, it doesn't really have the German "ei" diphthong. So "Vice" or "Vayce" or inbetween. --BluePlatypus 02:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Words in English with three consecutive identical letters?

Hi! Does anyone know if there are any words (not including acronyms) in English with three or more consecutive identical letters (like "exaaample", if such a word existed)? --69.181.90.49 22:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's what Oxford has to say on the subject: "The usual rules of English spelling outlaw triple letters. ... Nevertheless, we have encountered curious forms such as crosssection, and the complete Oxford English Dictionary does contain instances of frillless, bossship, countessship, duchessship, governessship, and princessship, and the county name Rossshire." —Seqsea (talk) 23:31, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that article; it was v. helpful :). --69.181.90.49 23:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

If you include onomatopoeiae, there are quite a few. 'Grrrr' to name one. Black Carrot 23:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

When such words might occur, they are sometimes spelled with a hyphen to avoid the triple letter (for example, Ross-shire), but not always. This question hinges on the very fuzzy issue of what we mean by "a word in English". A list of some words in English and other languages that may be spelled with triple and quadruple letters can be found here; follow the links at the bottom for other "word oddities". --Anonymous, 01:42 UTC, March 19, 2006.

The word I have always heard cited is 'goddessship.--Fuhghettaboutit 07:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting article. However, at the bottom it suggests that there is a Japanese word for 'princess' which can be romanized as 'joooo'. There is indeed a Japanese word (女王) meaning 'queen' (not princess), but this is romanized as 'joou', not 'joooo', even though both spellings have the same pronunciation.CCLemon 06:21, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

In addition to 女王, the word for "phoenix" (the mythological animal) is 鳳凰, which depending on the romanization used, it may be romanized as "houou" or "hoooo". --Oskilian 07:51, 2006.3.19 (UTC)

March 19

Person whose son/daughter has died

A person whose father and mother have died is called an orphan. But I can't seem to find a word to describe a person whose son/daughter has died. I overheard at my cousin's funeral that there are no words in any language to describe this. Is it true? or is there an english word to describe a person in such a situation.

--Oskilian 07:48, 2006.3.19 (UTC)