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Talk:2011 Germany E. coli O104:H4 outbreak

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Nbauman (talk | contribs) at 00:35, 3 September 2011 (→NEJM articles: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Talk:2011 E. coli O104:H4 outbreak/Archives/2011/June

Reference to E. coli strain being engineered

There are now references to the possibility of this outbreak being man-made in multiple third party sources e.g. [1], [2], [3]. I recognise that this is likely to be highly controversial and therefore wanted to discuss the issue here rather than simply add a mention to the article, but in my view some mention of these reports should be made in this article. I am personally neutral as to which section the reference goes into. Rangoon11 (talk) 16:09, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unreliable sources written by people who don't understand evolution. Livestock are given antibiotics, and so it is inevitable that resistant strains will florish. Speciate (talk) 19:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How are these sources unreliable? So far as I can see they all more than satisfy WP requirements.Rangoon11 (talk) 20:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Because they are crazy Russkies advancing a moronic position. Every time I see a news story by RT or Pravda I wonder what they have been smoking, especially when they stray outside of politics. Speciate (talk) 20:33, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's your opinion and of course you're welcome to it but I don't see how it fits in with WP policy. Rangoon11 (talk) 20:50, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Title change without discussion

An anonymous editor changed the display title in this edit without explanation. I found no prior discussion about this in the talk archives. Another editor subsequently moved the article to a name matching the display title, again without discussion.

Is there a consensus for the title 2011 German E. coli O104:H4 outbreak ? I feel that title is clunky and the inclusion of "German" is unnecessary. Seeing as the change and move was without discussion I propose reverting back to the original name. I would prefer if in future such moves were done following the expected wikipedia processes. -84user (talk) 13:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"German" in the title is incorrect and misleading as the strain has also caused an outbreak in France and will probably turn up in other countries. Skmacksler (talk) 15:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]


2011 German E. coli O104:H4 outbreak → 2011 E. coli O104:H4 outbreak – My rationale is simply to return the name to what it was, and to undo a change made with no discussion. Editors can of course suggest other names for this article. 84user (talk) 13:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I smiled when I saw the move. It seems to me that the Germans caused this outbreak through bad practices and stupidity, and are still unwilling to pay for the damage. Making a move without discussion is part of the WP:BRD credo. Speciate (talk) 19:15, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "German" is incorrect--this strain has also caused an outbreak in France and it will probably turn up in other countries. If the source is Egyptian fenugreek seeds as tentatively reported[4] then there is nothing particularly German about it. Germans just got it first. Just stick with the technical name without political baggage. Skmacksler (talk) 15:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source of the outbreak was not the seeds or the strain. The source was the failure of the German food safety system, which allowed a sprout farm to operate without proper controls. The scientists behind public health are fully aware of how dangerous sprouts are. Speciate (talk) 19:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    According to the responsible authorities your claim about the farm is totally wrong. They stressed that the farm appeared to be operating to a very high standard, and that there was no indication that they are to blame. Hans Adler 22:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you have a reliable source for the disparaging statement that the farm in question operated without proper controls?  --Lambiam 19:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Sprouts dangerous?, how about mad cows?, mrsa? campylobacteria in meat?, pesticides?, additives? get a perspective. And tracing contagious diseases is hard. There's also the choice between acting on what you know at present or wait until you are absolutely sure. And at the same time being assured many people dies in the process. Electron9 (talk) 23:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Science is hard all over, but the German public health system is the one that made everything worse by pointing blame on cucumbers from the dirty Spaniards while failing to discover the real source for months. Billions of Euros in economic losses piled on top of the loss of life. You should be ashamed to be supporting these incompetent government officials. In any case, the outbreak is German, and User:84user's claim that an outbreak in France is caused by the same strain means that there could be an 2011 French E. coli O104:H4 outbreak article any day now. So having this title is completely appropriate. Speciate (talk) 00:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    You appear to have an agenda, but please do not use Wikipedia as your soapbox – and also do not attack other editors who may not share your point of view.  --Lambiam 16:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

French outbreak and Swedish case

There's a report about ~10 persons getting infected with 0104:H4 in France. And 1 person getting HUS? by infection in Sweden. Could someone dig into this? esp when, where, strain, effects.Electron9 (talk) 01:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Swedish case, in the cited press release=source 1 (in Swedish) they do not mention HUS in relation (personally I think they would if it was confirmed or even suspected), I haven't seen any such reports. The individual is recovering 1 . Was suffering from bloody diarrhea 1 from mid June 1. :Was infected about two weeks earlier (incubation time). No known travel to Germany by him or people he met 1. Has not left Scania during that time. :No known links to other infected people 1. --Alcea setosa (talk) 01:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strain:"An ehec case of the same specific type as in the outbreak in Germany has been identified in Sweden" :my translation from "Ett ehec-fall av samma specifika typ som utbrottet i Tyskland har identifierats i Sverige." 1. --Alcea setosa (talk) 01:37, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ban on Egyptian seeds

Hasn't the time come for an "Aftermath" section to start wrapping up this story? The blame-Egypt position is gaining more and more consensus, with an official EU ban on Egyptian seeds entering into effect yesterday. Right now, though, there's no place in the article where it would be logical to add a report on that development.—Biosketch (talk) 05:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NEJM articles

The New England Journal of Medicine had 2 articles on this outbreak in the 25 August 2011 issue http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1106920 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1107643 probably the best report to date. I just read them through once, but I have to read them more carefully before I add them to the article.

This article now requires a complete rewrite, since we now have answers to a lot of the questions that were raised at the time, and a lot of the issues are no longer important.

The important issues according to the NEJM articles include the unusual toxicity of the strain, and the novel molecular methods used to analyze it.

I don't see the point of the long list of the "Affected countries". Can anyone give a reason for not deleting it? --Nbauman (talk) 00:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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