Talk:Collapse of the World Trade Center

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Collapse of the World Trade Center article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17

Collapse of the World Trade Center was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 1, 2005	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
December 19, 2005	Good article nominee	Listed
February 1, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Delisted good article

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Template:WikiProject September 11, 2001

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Architecture Mid‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

New York (state) High‑importance

	New York (state) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state)
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Firefighting High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Firefighting, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to firefighting on Wikipedia! If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.FirefightingWikipedia:WikiProject FirefightingTemplate:WikiProject FirefightingFirefighting
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

New York City High‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Template:September 11 arbcom

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 11, 2007.

Article name

Shouldn't it theoretically be Collapses of the World Trade Center, as it involved at least three collapses, not one collapse? The first tower to fall down collapsed separately from the next one and caused a partial collapse of the Vista Hotel; 7 WTC also collapsed separately. So that's three collapses and possibly four. And don't forget that holes were poked in the smaller WTC buildings. — Rickyrab | Talk 03:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You also seem to miss the point that there were more than "holes poked" in the smaller wtc buildings. The collapses of the towers fully destroyed 10 other buildings (those "holes" completely destroyed wtc 3,4,5,6 and a few other buildings) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.96.158.199 (talk) 14:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To me, this appears to strengthen Rickyrab's point. When I read this title, it seems like a single collapse, which - I think we're all agreed - is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.30.39.46 (talk) 15:55, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism of NIST Report

Sorry, but who is James Quintiere? He does not appear to be particularly notable (google doesn't bring up much) and just seems to be a standard university professor. The little info that google does bring up, indicates he is a truther.

The inclusion of his comments seems kinda weird, like bias from a conspiracy theorist. Isn't there any more notable criticism of the report? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.45.152.173 (talk) 10:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

to answer this question. NO there aren't really any notable criticism of the Final NIST report on wtc7. There are plenty of CT folks who complain, but there are NO peer reviewed engineering papers which say NIST got any of the major parts of their conclusions wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.96.158.199 (talk) 14:05, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Partially correct. The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat wrote a response to NIST's draft report on the failure of WTC 7. In this response, the CTBUH wrote "The Council does not agree with the NIST statement that the failure was a result of the buckling of Column 79. We believe that the failure was a result of the collapse of the floor structure that led to loss of lateral restraint and then buckling of internal columns." (ref) Numerous other questions and concerns were also put forward by the CTBUH. In its final report on WTC 7, NIST retained its column 79 collapse hypothesis. Wildbear (talk) 18:40, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

His papers on Fire Protection Research and behaviour are highly cited; see google scholar [1]. His back ground bio is located here; [2]. I found google did bring up quite a bit, arguably one could consider creating a wiki page on him that satisfies notability concerns. If it hasnt already been done. 129.215.113.85 (talk) 13:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

James Quintiere is a very respected scientist, but the datamined quotes are not in context, nor are they appropriate.

Why is there a footnote section with a footnote about a 1960's whitepaper but no citation? There are blanket claims about the contents of this whitepaper, but no evidence to support it. It needs a citation or it needs to be retracted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.96.158.199 (talk) 14:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It did have a cite but someone deleted it. Its in the NIST so is not disputed.Wayne (talk) 15:10, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just had a look and it is cited in the section but not the note which expands on what NIST said about it. I'll add the cite to the note. Wayne (talk) 15:23, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Those supporting conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 should be cautious about editing this article at all...more than one 9/11 CTer has been topic banned consequently.--MONGO 07:23, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification needed in the "Investigations" Section

The Investigations section lacks clarity and includes errors.

To improve this section there should be acknowledgement that the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY) were the entity most responsible for 'saving' steel pieces for further study. ASCE, which is mentioned, saved but a few of the pieces. Proof of this may be found in the World Trade Center Building Performance Study. FEMA 403 Apendix D includes a "Steel Data Collection Spreadsheet" which lists who saved and documented each piece and which entity they represented. Of the 156 saved pieces (at the time of publication), only the first 11 were saved by ASCE, and the balance were saved by SEAoNY volunteers. The balance of steel pieces saved after the publication of FEMA 403 were saved by SEAoNY volunteers with assistance from NIST representatives from Boulder CO. FEMA 403 Appendix G "Acknowledgements" lists the SEAoNY volunteers -- whose names are readily matched to those who 'saved' the steel as documented in Appendix D. 74.10.150.39 (talk) 14:45, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 investigation by SINTEF

In 2011, the norwegian research institute SINTEF published a paper discussing the role of aluminium in the collapse of the towers. See http://www.aluminiumtoday.com/issue-archive/view/may-june-2011/ and http://www.sintef.no/home/Press-Room/Research-News/New-theory-explains-collapse-of-Twin-Towers/.