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October 5

4 Chords

Since this question seems to have struck out on the entertainment desk, I'll ask it here. What are all the songs used in the album version of this song? (In order, if possible, since I wanted to download some included that I know I've heard and liked but don't know their name.) I know there's a YouTube video of a live performance of this they did that says all the songs in that version, but the album version appears to be different, and our section on the song only names a few of the songs. Thanks in advance, Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 00:11, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

The list of songs in order are on the 'see more' section on this youtube video. Schyler (exquirere bonum ipsum) 02:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Hiding the entire 'pedia

As I do very regulary, I clicked on an interlanguage link to Italian Wikipedia today and was in for a surprise. From our article as it stands currently: "On October 4, 2011, following a decision adopted by the community, all the contents were hidden and the website was blocked by its administrators, as a protest against the paragraph 29 of the so called "DDL intercettazioni" (Wiretapping Bill)[8], a bill, at the time being debated in the Chamber of Deputies of the Italian parliament." For more information, see Italian Wikipedia. Does anyone know whether this the first time a Wikimedia Foundation project's community decided to deny the public access to the entire collection of information as a form of protest? ---Sluzzelin talk 01:56, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Is the Italian wikipedia even hosted within Italy? If not, seems like a moot point and someone at the Italian Wikipedia overstepped their authority. What does the Foundation have to say about this? --Nricardo (talk) 02:41, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

There's something about it on ANI. It's not really protest so much as a safety measure. It doesn't matter that the Wiki's servers aren't in Italy; most of the Italian Wikipedians live in Italy; or most of the Italian-speaking ones anyway. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 02:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

"Safety measure"? It's not law yet. It's a bill under debate. --Nricardo (talk) 02:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I could have sworn that's how I saw it characterised there. Maybe I'm wrong. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 02:50, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

No, I think it's a protest. From what I've read about it (which is certainly not in detail), the decreto legge disegno di legge doesn't say anything about individual editors; it's talking about websites. Legally speaking, all Wikipedias are American websites, under the jurisdiction of the law of the State of Florida. --Trovatore (talk) 02:50, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be primarily a protest. But while I don't speak Italian, my reading from various comments including some which appear to come from Italians on the mailing list and elsewhere is it isn't that clear whether the is any risk to wikipedians. Remember it is ultimately Italian courts (and probably European Court of Human Rights) who will decide whether stuff on wikipedia is immune because the servers are hosted in Florida. What happens if they don't take that view? (Courts in quite a few countries have not cared about where the servers are hosted.) The WMF can of course ignore any fine imposed although it may make things difficult for them and any board members for any dealings in Italy and could potentially lead to wikipedia being blocked there. (See also [1].) However, if you're an admin, you have the ability to delete and protect content and of course any editor can modify unprotected content. If you're an admin in Italy, will you be held responsible for refusing to issue a correction as required by the law, particularly if you're the one who was asked to make a correction (which you can technically do) and were the one who originally posted the 'false' information? Note that unless the law is very clear you're not responsible, many admins and editors are unlikely to want to be a test case so may simply stop editing or otherwise change their editing in some way to avoid the risk. At that very least, the protest may make the government think about such issues when drafting the law. BTW, this isn't completely unique to Italy, some people do wonder about the risk of libel lawsuits in countries like the UK, Australia and NZ where libel laws are generally more plantiff friendly. Nil Einne (talk) 09:22, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

See meta:Wikimedia Forum#Italian Wikipedia for some information and discussion in English. It appears from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-October/069258.html that the Wikimedia Foundation was taken by surprise and doesn't have a clear position yet but expresses sympathy. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Typical absurdist street theater of the left, with not a "community" but a clique taking upon themselves the right to vandalize the website for partisan effect. Why not just delete all articles on the right, its figures, causes and issues? Or would that be too obvious. μηδείς (talk) 03:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

(lol, sometimes you make me wonder whether you're for real) Hey! I'm asking about similar cases in the past, not about legal (or polemical) ramifications of this particular situation! ---Sluzzelin talk 03:13, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

About 50% of the time, and this is one of them. Any sentence using community as a subject is necessarily a lie. For similar situations see Beerhall Putsch, Morton Downey, Jr. and the death of Rachel Corrie. μηδείς (talk) 04:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't get the context (might be this headache). One's an attempted coup d'etat (my keyboard is English/Hebrew/German, not French) of the Weimar Republic and the other is a lady jumping in front of large bulldozer where the driver couldn't see her (with the result being what one would expect). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 04:39, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, of what phenomenon I mentioned in my immediately prior post could the incidents be considered examples? μηδείς (talk) 05:10, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

People being compelled to commit immensely stupid acts by lies or at the very least false truths and misconceptions? Guess I see that now. Mmmmm, this topic is making me hungry for Knockwürste and pancakes. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 19:56, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

The OP has a point. No one answered his question. Are there similar cases? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 03:22, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Not unless you count the software and network hardware protesting improper configuration by human error. There have also been projects closed and withdrawn due to lack of activity. 69.171.160.19 (talk) 04:23, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe so. Then again, I'm not aware if there have been any major issues like this in recent times in countries where an online protest is likely to make any difference which don't speak English. (It was mentioned in the mailing list it's fairly pointless to do in protest about something in China.) I'm guessing the Italian wikipedia protest was part of a wider online protest in Italy. There have been online protests about laws in NZ which have entailed people doing something to their websites (the one in NZ got the support of at least one well known right-wing blogger as well as those on the left) and I think Australia, the US and possibly Canada and the UK. But obviously trying to blank the English wikipedia because of laws in one specific English speaking country is not likely to get sufficient support. Other issues have came up before like disputes with the WMF e.g. the Spanish fork/ad issue and I think there was an Acehnese issue which has lead to a large section of the community leaving. Some people in the mailing list suggested the German wikipedia may try to do the blanking thing due to the WMF's proposed optional image filter. But trying to protest against something the WMF are doing by blanking their resources is far less likely to get their limited support as this case seems to have gotten. Nil Einne (talk) 09:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Ultimately the WMF have the right to decide what goes on in their servers. It clear from the above and [2] that while the WMF were taken by surprise, they feel it was an acceptable action (not necessarily what they feel was the best course of action) when back by a robust community (their word) process which they currently feel were used in this case. Medeis's personal views on the community are completely moot and their view that it's not a community while their prerogative is also moot, the WMF is entitled to do what they wish with webpages hosted by them and how decisions are made on what goes on. Medeis's belief that they are entitled to dictate how the WMF manages their affairs is clearly what is ridiculous and absurdist. If they don't like how the WMF manages their affairs, they are completely free to use someone else's servers. Nil Einne (talk) 08:39, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

As noted here,[3] Wikimedia Foundation supports this move, as a stand against censorship. We have frequent battles on English Wikipedia when a public figure (or a fan of a public figure) doesn't like what was posted. This proposed law would give such public figure the right to legally dictate the contents of wikipedia, and that is unacceptable. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:42, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

If the law passes, the Italian Wikipedia will have to be shut down anyway. Italy would become one giant COI. But then again, with a prime minister that controls the media and have a huge economic COI already, not surprising.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 14:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

It is the Italian Wikipedia, not the Italian Wikipedia. If the law restricts content about Sig. Berlusconi or any Italian citizen, I would imagine it is restricted under Italian law whatever language it is written in: WMF could decide to establish a Swiss Italian 'pedia just to clarify that the contents are not aimed at one country. Sussexonian (talk) 17:18, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

But what about non-Italian Italian speakers? Such as Italian speakers in Switzerland? Precisely because Wikipedias are specific to languages, not to countries, this would mean that no one would be able to read Wikipedia in Italian, no matter where they lived. Imagine if this happened to the German Wikipedia - Austrians and Swiss would be affected too. Or to the French Wikipedia - Belgians, Monegasque, Swiss, Canadians and other people would be affected too. Not to mention the English Wikipedia, which would affect almost the entire world. JIP | Talk 18:22, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer, but in my amateur view the issues this law raises with respect to the Italian Wikipedia are not different in kind from the ones it raises for any other Wikipedia, including English Wikipedia. Legally, Italian Wikipedia and English Wikipedia are exactly the same — they are hosted in Florida, and edited by people from all over the world. No one is proposing that we close English Wikipedia because of this law, as far as I know.

It sounds like a truly awful law and if this protest manages somehow to help prevent its adoption, I'll be happy about that. But the claims being made that Italian Wikipedia would "have to shut down" don't make much sense to me. --Trovatore (talk) 18:49, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

It's a minor point, but Wikipedia also has servers in the Netherlands, according to [4]. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Italian Wikipedia is predominantly edited by Italians, isn't it? Even if Wikipedia itself is safe from prosecution (?), the Italian users aren't. And that has happened before. What would WMF have to do then? Block all Italian IP's? Fullprot all biographies on notable Italians? -- Obsidi♠n Soul 20:35, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia cannot allow specific editors to dictate content unilaterally. That's why, if such a law passes, Italy wikipedia is history. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:41, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Nonsense. It's not "Italy wikipedia". It's Wikipedia in Italian. I edit it (admittedly, not extremely often) from the United States, and I do not see any way that my edits to it.wiki have any different legal status from my edits to en.wiki. --Trovatore (talk) 20:47, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

It's not nonsense, it's a serious threat to wikipedia and a dangerous precedent. And it's necessary to do this before the law gets voted on, to send a message. Maybe the Italian wikipedia users can influence the result of that vote. Maybe not. But it's worth a try. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

And where do most Italian-speaking editors live? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 20:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Probably most of them live in Italy. As far as I can see that doesn't affect the legal issue in any way whatsoever, as far as it concerns the Foundation.

Now, it may affect those editors who live in Italy. But they will also be affected when editing en.wiki. So once again, no difference. --Trovatore (talk) 20:57, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I loved this comment from SERGIO on it.wiki:

• Commento: Favorevole anche a mettere in coda a ogni pagina, e in testa in prima pagina, un discléimer : "Cari azzeccagarbugli, se volete chiedere rettifiche & smentite, rivolgetevi a Wikimedia Foundation etc. etc., San Francisco USA. Questa non è Wikipedia Italia, è Wikipedia in lingua italiana, capitolo linguistico e non regionale, e quindi è editabile da chiunque nel mondo conosca la lingua italiana, ed è fuori dalla giurisdizione italiana. Pertanto nessun amministratore o burocrate è responsabile della conduzione del sito, la quale ricade sotto la responsabilità del soggetto indicato in &pigrafe. Distinti saluti e andate a cercar rogna da qualche altra parte". -- SERGIO ^{(aka the Blackcat)} 20:38, 3 ott 2011 (CEST)

  BC: Tu credi che gli azzeccagarbugli siano interessati ad individuare il foro di competenza o piuttosto a fare casino a tutela del preteso buon nome dei loro assistiti? --78.15.3.217 (msg) 20:44, 3 ott 2011 (CEST)

  Se uno vuole un buon nome si comporta comm'il faut, la sai la poesia di Trilussa su Giove e il lupo no? Peraltro sulle garanzie di ogni prodotto, dai frigoriferi ai vibratori a pile, c'è scritto: "Per ogni controversia è competente il foro di XXXXX". Se un avvocato legge e se ne frega, allora il suo cliente lo deve cambiare e scegliersene uno che non ha preso la laurea con i punti Mira Lanza. -- SERGIO ^{(aka the Blackcat)} 00:24, 4 ott 2011 (CEST)

I hate to be an ugly American, but could you please translate that? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Roughly, with apologies to SERGIO for any errors, he says

For even putting at the end of every page, and at the top of the first page, a disclaimer: "Dear shysters, if you want to ask for corrections and denials, direct yourselves to Wikimedia Foundation etc etc, San Francisco, USA. This is not Wikipedia Italy; it's Wikipedia in Italian language, a lingustic rather than regional chapter, and therefore is editable by anyone who knows the Italian language, and is outside Italian jurisdiction. In any case (?) no administrator or bureaucrat is responsable for the conduct of the site, which falls under the reponsibility of the subject indicated above (?). Respectfully and go look to stir up trouble somewhere else.

Then responding to someone who asks whether shysters will bother to look for the appropriate forum, he suggests that their clients should go look for someone who didn't get his law degree by sending in box tops. --Trovatore (talk) 21:27, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

"Probably" and "may"? Heh. Bit of an understatement there. But yes, I suppose, the rest of Wikipedia can go on, including the Italian Wikipedia, which won't have any Italians in it... like making apple pies without apples. And again, even if Wikipedia itself is immune, its Italian users wouldn't be. IP's can be traced, and users who had disclosed personal info prosecuted if they piss off someone and fail to revdel something within 48 hours. You'd basically be left with an Italian expat Wikipedia. I don't think it'd sit well with WMF if they just threw their users to the wolves. -- Obsidi♠n Soul 21:36, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's pointed to this article from the Wikipedia Signpost from two days ago, which contains links to debates about this. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

At present, that link just produces "Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.". Edison (talk) 23:17, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the site is run by Bank of America. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:50, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Quran app and tafirs app

which website is the best when it comes to downloading the quran app with different recitation and tafsir apps like qutb, maududi and it is free? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.230.215 (talk) 15:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

On which platform? iOS, Android, or BlackBerry? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 19:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

cutting concrete strips on highway

On Highway 9 in Manitoba between Winnipeg and Selkirk there is work being done to repair the highway.I noticed that cuts about 5' wide by 10' long are being made every 10 to 15 feet.Re-bar is then inserted on either side of the cut and then concrete was poured back over the cut in the highway.What is the purpose of just cutiing out portions of a highway for miles and then filling them in again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricky439 (talk • contribs) 16:04, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Expansion joints?--78.148.137.187 (talk) 16:36, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Automobile

I have purchased a Honda Activa deluxe scooter 20 months back. I have a problem with the scooter since 8 months. It is starting problem. I normally kick start in the morning and after about three KMs if I stop the engine and start again with push button start it doesn't work. When I stop the engine at traffic signal for green signal, and when I restart I face difficulties. Four or five times I have to try for starting the engine. Suppliers, Muthoot Motors was not able to solve the problem. Could any one help me the reason why this happens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.148.10 (talk) 17:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

A mechanic gave me this advice: spark, fuel, oxygen gives you action. If no action then you are missing one of these. Is a scooter an automobile? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Just don't listen to that mechanic if you are driving a Tesla Roadster. Googlemeister (talk) 20:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

In the case of an electrified vehicle, the spark-fuel-oxygen part occurs at the power plant. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh Really, Bugs? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.119.27.27 (talk) 11:12, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

There's no escaping the fact that somewhere along the way, fuel and heat are required. And since the typical car is still an internal combustion engine, the mechanic's advice is generally good - especially if he knows what kind of car the driver is driving. (And the Honda Activa does appear to be a traditional engine and not electric.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:21, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

There's no escaping the fact that your first answer was, as it regularly is, just completely and utterly misleading. And in the answer above, even after prompting, has it escaped your notice that "Fuel and heat" are not required in hydro generation? This is why we despair of your answers on the RDs, bugs, and always have. Is there any possibility that you could rein yorself in and only answer when you actually know what you're talking about? --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:01, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The one user's interjection about the Tesla Roadster was totally irrelevant to the OP's question. It was, of course, just a joke. Feel free to sling some of your as-always useless snippiness in his direction also. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:06, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

It just depends on how far back you want to take things. Hydro power works of course because water flows downhill. Well and good, but without heat to evaporate water and create rain uphill of your hydropower plant, you are going to have a problem. Heck if you are not getting heat from the sun, all your water is going to be ice, and I have not seen any designs for a power plant which uses glacial motion. The heat of course comes from the sun, which uses hydrogen as fuel in a fusion reaction. Googlemeister (talk) 18:24, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

If an engine won't start when it is warm/hot, check that the fuel tank vent isn't blocked (generally in the filler cap) and check the ignition module. Sometimes, when an ignition module expands due to heat, the soldered contacts inside become disconnected. Also, I suggest that you find another mechanic. Motorbikes are very simple to get going. --TrogWoolley (talk) 13:51, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

• When you press the start button what actually happens? Can you hear the starter turn the engine over but the engine does not fire OR is there silence? Also, are you a femail driver (this will help me tell you where to kick the mechanic to engage his brain).--Aspro (talk) 16:57, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Silicon Valley Job Statistic

On average, how many applicants are there per physical job opening (meaning the job is for people who would physically report there for work) in Silicon Valley where the job is in the umbrella category of "Programmer"? I know there are lots of BLS statistics on jobs, but I haven't seen statistics saying how many applied for positions filled, and I'm curious if the average person applying for one job of this type tends to be competing with 10, 100, 1000 or another number of other people. 20.137.18.53 (talk) 19:38, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

You can always ask. It really depends on the job type (medical, finance, technology, etc.) and how it is advertised. You might find this surprising, but the IT industry is pretty small, and everyone seems to know everyone else. Who you know and who you've worked for in the past, what school you attended, and your age plays a huge role in hiring, and at the end of the day, there's really a limited pool of applicants. Viriditas (talk) 23:47, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I do see this from earlier this year stating that 75,000 people applied for 6,000 jobs at Google, though it doesn't state that all 6,000 of those were the kind of job I specified in my original question. I would think that for jobs posted publicly, there are normally many like the 75,000 who are probably not in the in-group and don't have any connections to help their chances of getting real consideration. 20.137.18.53 (talk) 17:03, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Has the popularity of kasher food increased in the United States?

(Note, kasher is the proper term for English term, kosher, and I shall be using this term in place of the English one) This is a two-parter. I was at a Harris Teeter in Arlington, VA and was surprised/delighted to see a kasher frozen food section there with three freezers devoted to kasher foods (goods one too). This doesn't seem like a normal spot to have kasher food (though there might be a burgeoning Jewish population there, they could be appealing to the large Jewish student population in Washington). So here's the questions:

First, has the popularity of food marketed as kasher (ones from kasher brands, not just ones that have kasher certification) increased in the United States? By that I mean; are they now more widely sold here compared to say, 10 years ago?

The second question is: Has application for kashrut certification, in general, increased in the US among food companies? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 20:41, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

For those unfamiliar with the chain, Harris Teeter is a grocery store chain. Dismas|^(talk) 20:43, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Knew I forgot to wikilink something; guess it would be neccessary as some convenience stores have frozen food sections. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 20:45, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Why then does our Kashrut article say in the secondsentence "Food in accord with halakha (Jewish law) is termed kosher in English". Are you asserting that the article is wrong, or making some other point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by tagishsimon (talk • contribs)

I prefer using the Hebrew term for Hebrew concepts; I only put the explanation so as to avoid confusion. I don't really see how this is relevant to my question though. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 20:50, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

We often digress. Surely כַּשְׁרוּת is the Hebrew term, and kasher merely some sort of argument over the English transliteration? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Nope. Kashrut is the law. Kashrut certification means that the item is in accordance with the laws of kashrut. Surely you have seen כשר לפסח (not כושר לפסח), and no o, nikkud on it, rather an a sound is there. My Israeli gf, Prof. Yaron Peleg and this delicious box of King David Matzot all agree with me. However it does happen from time to time that in very crummy transliterations to English people put o for a; a good example is Mogen Dovid, which I've seen a few times. Now, anyone have any statistics? :p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 20:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC) Edit: As well, .כ.ש.ר is the shoresh of both words, so they're quite related. Though my Hebrew is still a bit limited, when I think about it, I'll bet that כושר can function as a verb and basically be the singular male form of "to make fit" - אני כושר, אתה כושר, הוא כושר. Know what I mean? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:13, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Oops. Bit of a cut & paste error. Meanwhile Kasher gets 1.3M ghits. Kosher 42.3M. Presumably the English speaking world prefers the crummy transliteration? --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:17, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

People tend to use the one term over the other if that is the only one term they have heard. I only knew of kosher until I learned Hebrew. What is the point you are trying to make? I'm afraid I don't quite understand. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:21, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

We tend to use common terms on wikipedia. I'm always interested when someone insists on an uncommon and unfamiliar term; always worth digging into. I'm not seeking to make a point. I'm asking questions. Not least, I'm interested in whether or not we're missing some information from the kashrut article, which is silent on the use of kasher. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:24, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Uh huh, and I've edited Wikipedia for quite a while so I'm familiar with that fact. I already gave the term's use and explanation when I started this topic: "(Note, kasher is the proper term for English term, kosher, and I shall be using this term in place of the English one)" I am really just using the proper transliteration of an originally foreign word. Now do you have any statistics or anything to answer my actual question? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:36, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec) It's probably that the term "kosher" has been adopted as the proper term in English, and that you succeeded in distracting everyone from actually answering your question by insisting on using a nonstandard term. Like flies to poop, pedants like myself swarm all over the arguably incorrect word. I would avoid doing that in the future if you want answers to questions. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:27, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)If said pedants choose to do that it is not really my fault (self-control is very important for any pedant to learn). I will use proper terms if I see fit and simply ignore pedantic behaviour from people unfamiliar with the topic. :p Now does any Wikipedian want to use this Ref Desk to answer my question? This is kind of putting me off using refdesk. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:36, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Sadly, a question still hangs over whether or not it is "the proper term". You cannot legislate for people being more interested in an obscure corner of your question than its main theme. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:39, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Just saying that this sort of focus on such a tiny thing is very off-putting, not trying to regulate anything. This is the last I'll say on this topic here. Etymology of the English term, Kosher. If you want to discuss it further I politely request you do so on my user talk. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

If it was such a tiny thing to you, why make it the first sentence of your post? The first sentence the bit we're all guaranteed to read. (Was there more to your post? ;-) ) A foreign term is NOT the "proper" term. The proper is the one the linguists tell us we use the most and which has a totally clear meaning. Kosher fits that description perfectly. HiLo48 (talk) 23:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

If everyone started their question with "For reasons I will refuse explain I shall be using a foreign word in place of one of the English words in my question." I don't think we'd manage to answer a single question! :-) (By the way. The word "desk" is actually a corruption of the medieval Latin "desca", so I'll be using the correct term on the reference desca from now on.) APL (talk) 09:40, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

In fact, according to EO,[5] it comes from the Greek diskos (disc). (And to "refer" is to "ferry back".) Maybe the ref desk should be renamed the "disko-take". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:51, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

There was some discussion in the New York Times over the last year about the fact that many non-Jews are buying kosher in the hopes that it will be ethically or chemically better for them, in the same way they seek out organic food.[6] So that might be responsible for some up-tick in things, though I don't know if that's made much of a difference at a place like Harris Teeter's (generally catering to a more up-scale and more picky customer than your average Safeway shopper, though not quite as picky as a Whole Foods shopper) in a place like Arlington (which is more Mid-Atlantic than it is South, and is a lot easier to get to by car from DC than most DC supermarkets, which have barely any parking). --Mr.98 (talk) 21:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Here we go. Ah, this is good to see. More goyim buying kasher = more kasher food in general. Hmmm, judging by the places you pointed out, I think you know the neighbourhood I'm currently living in. One thing I noticed at the new Whole Foods (you know the one I mean if I am right in my assumption) is that there is very little kasher food there; in fact, even their challot are non-kasher. They have gotten a bit more kasher in though recently after many people complained, but that might just be Rosh haShana (I wrote in and said that it was funny to sad to see more kasher in Safeway than Whole Foods which claims to be a health food store). It is good to see it on the rise though so that more kasher food is more widely available (which is why I asked the question, I want to see if it is becoming easier to get kasher food elsewhere than NYC). Fairways are also spreading fast and they are known for their big kasher selection. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Not that it matters, but I don't live in Arlington. I do shop there occasionally, though. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I was talking about Foggy Bottom. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 8 Tishrei 5772 02:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

• Arlington, VA may not have a large Jewish population, but if you went to the Harris Teeter that I think you did, it's a well-regarded superstore that tends to draw in people from other communities -- and there are a lot of Jews in the capital region. The nearby small towns of Falls Church and Fairfax City have some of the highest concentrations of Jews in the USA, and Jewish concentration in nearby Washington, DC and Alexandria, VA is double the national average. --M@rēino 21:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

That would definitely make sense. Like I said, there's the Jewish student population. You have the Blue Line metro at GW which goes right to Pentagon City where that Harris Teeter is. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Tishrei 5772 21:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Kosher food trend is probably your friend. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:08, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I've read that most people who buy kosher food aren't even Jewish. Kosher food has a reputation of being "cleaner" than non-kosher food. Vegetarians like to buy non-meat kosher food because they know it won't contain any meat. Muslims may buy kosher food because they know there's no pork. I see people who likely aren't Orthodox Jews browsing the kosher section at my local store all the time. See [7]. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:25, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

It's also because kashrut is in accordance with halal (and vice-versa to some extent, though they do allow for mixing of meat and milk and camel is a halal animal). I have seen the healthy angle used a few times. Some cases it's true, sometimes not. You never know, they might be a conservative (who are strict sometimes) or reform (not so strict) in disguise. :p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 8 Tishrei 5772 02:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

On page 193 of Leo Rosten's The Joys of Yiddish, he lists Kosher and says it's from Hebrew kasher (meaning "fit", "proper", "appropriate", "permissible") and then he uses the English word "kosher" in the rest of the entry. In fact, he says, "Kosher is probably the Hebrew word most widely encountered in English." And just to clarify, as per my old Webster's, kasher is Hebrew and kosher is Yiddish (and English). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:42, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

The OP clearly states that "kasher is the proper term for English term, kosher", whilst failing to understand that the proper term for the English term 'kosher', is in fact, the English term 'kosher' as it is, in fact, the term, in English. Without giving us another definition for the phrase 'proper term', claiming that 'the proper term' for a 'term' already in current use is more 'proper' than the term already in current use makes no sense. The English version of the word comes from Yiddish, not Hebrew - and this is the accepted term in English - by which I mean, the 'proper term'. This is like arguing that the word 'elohim' should instead be 'allah', simply because they are etymologically related. Or arguing that 'paradise' really means anything made out of dough. Also, as stated above, the OP would get better answers if he were not to use words or phrases which distract from the main point of the question. Some of us here may be pedants, but many of us are also linguists. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 02:52, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

October 6

Chargeable interstate vs. non chargeable interstate

What is the difference between chargeable interstate. Because I-110 in California is chargeable interstate, I-710 is non-chargeable interstate. shows I-110 is add on the highway document system in 1979, does chargeable interstate mean the interstate is allow to be post once government approves it. Because common types of renumbering is dual signing, so in December 1978 I-110 was approve by FHWA, are they allow to do the renumber at 1979. What is non-chargeable interstate. I hear non-chargeable interstate means they aren't allow to sign as interstate unless it is fully upgrade and meets qualifications. I-710 Long Beach Freeway is that sitution.--69.229.6.251 (talk) 01:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The construction of the Interstate Highway System was funded 90/10 with the states (the states paid 10% and the feds paid 90% of the costs of the building of the roads: see [8]). This funding covered the contruction of a specific 42,000-mile system of roads, these 42,000 miles are the "chargeable" roads in the system. States are allowed to build additional roads into the interstate system, which are numbered and signed as interstates, at their own cost, so long as those roads meet the Interstate Highway standards. These additional roads are funded 100% by the states, and so are considered "non-chargable" interstates. For the driver, there should be absolutely no distinction between them. The difference is just in how the roads were funded; either with federal funds as part of the initial 42000 mile system, or as a later addition to the system funded by the states. See Interstate_Highway_System#Chargeable_and_non-chargeable_Interstate_routes and this external link: [9] which explains the breakdown of chargable and non-chargable routes in California specifically. --Jayron32 02:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

seminar help

Hi As I would like to present seminar about wikipedia in my company, kindly provide me with neecessary documents or previous presentations in order to have a effective presentation and i need these documents/slides for power point presentation for reference. kindly send these to my mail ID. REMOVED — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.68.25 (talk) 11:51, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, you're not allowed to post email addresses here. All replies are made on the board.

Perhaps you could tell in more detail what you would like the presentation to be about, and we can point you to relevant information. Wikipedia contains a lot of information on Wikipedia (e.g. history, criticism, benefits, policies, how people can be involved). --Colapeninsula (talk) 14:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

The Chicago Bears vs Tampa Bay Bucs match at Wembley Stadium is coming up and I've been noticing some publicity for it, notably a radio ad I've heard on Absolute Radio (other radio stations are available, and indeed, may be carrying the same ad).

In the course of the advert, it describes Tampa Bay as "the youngest and most dynamic team" in the NFL. Now, while I know that adverts don't carry the same restrictions as we do over WP:PEACOCK and therefore I'll ignore the "most dynamic" bit, they do have to comply with legal requirements to be truthful and I wondered what was meant by "youngest".

AFAIK, (and I don't know masses about American football - I prefer the type of "football" that's mostly played with feet) a number of franchises have been created in recent years and Tampa Bay have been around as long as I can remember. So either I'm wrong, or they're talking about something else.

So, what do they mean? The average age of the squad maybe?

Cheers in advance --Dweller (talk) 12:14, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

That would likely refer to the average age of the players, yes. If it was about the team as a franchise, they would probably say "newest", and there are a number of teams newer than the Bucs in any case. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:21, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Is it true? And if so, why would the marketers think that was an attractive aspect for fans? Smacks me as a bit desperate/random, even if true, like "most piratey", arrr? --Dweller (talk) 12:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Younger people tend to have more energy maybe? Rookies play harder to make themselves stand out in order to progress their career? Also, just to give you a heads up, Americans would call this contest a game, not a match. Googlemeister (talk) 13:48, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly, the advert, done in OTT American accents, calls it a "match-up". Which makes it sound like they're getting married. --Dweller (talk) 10:06, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, match-up is used some by the media (rarely by people who aren't on tv), but I have never heard them call it a plain match. Googlemeister (talk) 13:29, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

A younger team connotes unpredictability, which might make for an exciting game; and if you go and see them now, there is always the chance that in 40 years when you are a graybeard you will be able to fondly and loudly reminisce about the time you saw Jack Smith play American Football before he became a star. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:56, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

• According to ESPN, which is generally considered the expert on this sort of research, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers do indeed currently have the youngest average player age in the NFL. In the NFL, as in most professional sports, younger players tend to be much faster and more agile. However, NFL football places a lot of emphasis on strength, which tends to peak mid-career, as well as tactical knowledge and emotional composure, which tend to peak near the end of one's career. In other words, younger teams tend to be fun to watch, because they'll go flying around the field looking amazing, and then screw it all up by doing something stupid. --M@rēino 14:32, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that the Bucs are a mediocre team without any big-name stars, so in the absence of anything better to say, the advertisement makes them out to be an "up and coming" team. (I'm guessing the Bucs were picked for the game because of their owner's UK connections.) I find it interesting that British people will turn out in such numbers to watch games like San Francisco vs. Denver. I can't imagine a game between, say, Sunderland and West Bromwich Albion selling out the Meadowlands. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:47, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

They might, if there were only one soccer game per year in America. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I wouldn't call the Bucs a mediocre team. They are in first in their division, the NFC South, a division that also has the Atlanta Falcons, who have been decent for a few years, the New Orleans Saints, who won the Super Bowl two years ago, and have been a regular playoff team for some years, and the Carolina Panthers, who have the most exciting rookie player (Cam Newton) in some time. The NFC South may be one of the more competitive divisions in the League, the Bucs at 3-1 are doing quite well for themselves. They have a genuinely fun Quarterback to watch, Josh Freeman, who plays a LOT like Ben Rothlisberger, and their running back LeGarrette Blount is a great runner, the Bucs may be one of the only teams this year who has a reliable running game capable of closing out games at the end. They're young and unknown, and they get a few too many penalties, but the have the defense and running game that most of the league lacks this year. This may be their breakout year; I wouldn't be surprised if they went 10-6 this year, and 2012 is likely to be the year this team blows it up; if they can keep this young core of players together they stand to win the Division next year with 12 or 13 wins. The Bears also have a very good running back, Matt Forte, which is good because their QB Jay Cutler is a bit of an enigma. The Bucs-Bears game in London stands to be an excellent old-school football game with a focus on rushing over passing. As far as WHY the Bucs get to play in the UK this year, check out who their owner is. That will answer a LOT of questions for fans of UK (association) football... --Jayron32 23:14, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Beating Indianapolis and Minnesota doesn't count. And look at who they beat last year: the four teams in the NFC "Worst" division, Carolina twice, the Bengals, the Browns, the Redskins and a Saints team that had clinched a playoff spot and rested some starters. They lost every game they played against a good team that was really trying. Had Tampa played a schedule of average difficulty, they could just as easily have finished 6-10. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:39, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I am surprised you think the NFC South is more competitive then the NFC North, when the North has the only 2 undefeated teams, including last years Superbowl champ, Green Bay. Googlemeister (talk) 13:31, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The North has, IMHO, only two teams capable of making the playoffs this year (GB and Detroit), and their last place team, Minnesota, may be the worst team in all of professional sports, worldwide. They are dreadful. So yes, comparing the top 2 teams from each Division, the North is better, but teams 3 & 4 from the South are better than teams 3 & 4 from the North. The NFC North has a better top end, but the South is more competitive top-to-bottom. --Jayron32 14:07, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Gotcha, you mean more competitive across the division, I was thinking more competitive to win the Superbowl. My bad. Googlemeister (talk) 14:59, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

should these be in humanities?

is lobbying essentially bribing? what would happen if political parties were banned, and people were limited to one time in ofice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.43.78.36 (talk) 13:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

For the first, see lobbying, if you have not yet done so. For the second, it's asking for opinion, which we do not provide, but I guess it would be a shake-up and thrusting that particular political system a few hundred years into the past. That's an unprofessional opinion of a layman. --Ouro (blah blah) 14:10, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Several countries do not have political parties: see List of countries without political parties, and others have one-party systems. Even without political parties, political factions tend to form. The article Term limit may also be of some interest to answering the final part of the question. --Colapeninsula (talk) 14:48, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Lobbying is just advocating for a position. It doesn't involve any transfer of funds, so it cannot be bribery. Campaign contributions, however, which may be offered by lobbyists, could be seen as bribery in some cases. Marco polo (talk) 17:50, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, of course, a standard lobbyist position is, "Vote this way, or our PAC will spend $2 million against you in the next election." Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:53, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Wow, our term limit article is really brief and needs a lot of expansion. A standard argument given against term limits (by those who have been elected many times in a row, of course, along with their cronies) is that you end up with a bunch of non-"experts" in Parliament and/or Congress, who don't know the ins-and-outs of what makes good legislation and how to effectively negotiate legislation. The standard counterargument is that the above ignores the fact that in the US, at least, elected officials spend about 90% of their time on the phone talking to rich people in order to raise money to get elected next time; and their support staff are doing most of the work anyway; sounds like a net gain to me. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:53, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

In my experience, people are very much in favor of term limits for representatives from districts other than their own. That might be why we don't have a term limits amendment (except for the president). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:10, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

As for the oldies vs. the newbies, whether that's good or not depends on which side you take in the recent debt-ceiling crisis, in which the idealist newbies held America hostage for awhile. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:12, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Arguments against term limits include (1) if a politician isn't standing for re-election what incentive do they have to do a good job? Standing for election keeps politicians honest, and we can always kick bad ones out after a single term (2) a politician approaching the end of a term limit may be a lame duck without the time to implement a long-term plan (3) more tenuously, rather than discouraging corruption it may encourage people to corrupt quicker. On the other hand, incumbency advantage (the tendency for incumbents to be re-elected - see incumbent for details) is one of the imbalances that can be cured by term limits. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:47, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Given the above answers, I can't work out whether the primary task is to advise whether the Humanities desk is the proper place for questions like these, or to answer the 2 questions, or both. The header is supposed to encapsulate the main idea or main point of the post. So, fwiw, yes, this is the correct place for questions like these. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:34, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

October 7

Hanging_Rock,_Victoria

Isn't the climber in the first picture in the article above, obviously taking too much risk? Quest09 (talk) 01:13, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

No. To an experienced rock climber, the boulder in File:Rockclimbing.JPG is about as hard to climb as a staircase. --Carnildo (talk) 01:28, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec) "Too much" is a value judgement. We can't tell how high up he is (well, maybe Carnildo is more familiar with the place) , nor do we know how good a climber he is, nor how familiar he is with the climb he's doing. So we could only speculate. It's somewhat concerning that he's wearing trainers not rock shoes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:30, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The caption suggests the climber is bouldering, which is described as climbing rocks without ropes and other safety gear, but such climbs rarely go very high, and there may well be a bouldering mat out of view at the base of the rock in case he were to fall. --McDoobAU93 01:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

This activity might (depending on what is underneath the climber) be better described as scrambling. Bouldering suggests a) "a fall will not result in serious injury" and b) that it involves short technical challenges known as "problems". Difficult climbs without protection gear, above safe falling distance (our Bouldering article suggests 7 metres, my definition would be a bit lower), are usually described as soloing which is very risky unless you're very good. However, long climbs that are not difficult enough to need protection gear are called "scrambles". Alansplodge (talk) 23:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

On the subject of risk assesment and climbing, the words of Edward Whymper (1840-1911) are often quoted:

"Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end." Alansplodge (talk) 23:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Did he go out with a bang? --Jayron32 04:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

No, but four of his chums did, on the way down from his first ascent of the Matterhorn in 1865. Alansplodge (talk) 23:30, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

University of Wales

Hello, I'm from India. This institute is offering a Post Graduate Diploma in Global Business Leadership which they claim is affiliated to University of Wales. I want to know whether University of Wales offer off-campus degree? --Eoeoeoe (talk) 13:07, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they do. The University of Wales' official information about this programme is at [10]. However, the University of Wales has recently been in the British news with grave concerns expressed over the quality of its oversight processes - see, for example, [11]. Warofdreams talk 13:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec) Yes, the University of Wales does offer off-campus degree courses, but be very careful. Only yesterday, the University's reputation was called into question after a BBC investigation revealed a scam involving off-campus degree courses. You could find yourself with a degree certificate which prospective employers might be reluctant to believe you actually worked for. Astronaut (talk) 13:25, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

News reports say the University of Wales is going to stop validating degrees from other institutions, although it's not clear exactly when this will take effect.[12] --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

baked French fries?

What do you call "French fries" that are baked instead of fried? I've heard them called "baked fries", which doesn't make good sense. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 14:26, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I call them "oven chips" because I'm in the UK. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Same here, that seems to be the standard name -- Q Chris (talk) 14:43, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

"Baked fries" actually does make some sense -- the only way to get edible results is to coat the potatoes with some stuff that when baked in an oven simulates the effects of frying. Looie496 (talk) 15:16, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I think they are called "oven fries" in the U.S. Marco polo (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm in the US. They do simulate being fried, but they aren't fried. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:46, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm in the US and am only vaguely familiar with the term "oven fries". Frozen french fries that we bake in the oven are still usually called simply "french fries" even though they are baked in the home and not fried. Dismas|^(talk) 16:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

That is my experience as well. Americans usually call them "fries" regardless of how they are cooked. Also agree that spraying with PAM (cooking oil) or a similar product is the best way to get anything resembling the actual fried version. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:46, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

They are called oven fries. μηδείς (talk) 19:00, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

If "French fries" aren't French, then why should they be fried ? StuRat (talk) 22:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

In the US, I would expect them to be called "baked French fries". My Google search for "baked french fries" just now yielded 532,000 hits, demonstrating the popularity of my expectation. Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:54, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I think they are more commonly just called "French fries", or just "fries" of one kind or another, as in this packaging, [13]. I suspect it is a marketing thing. Any hint, such as the mention of the word "oven" or "baked", that they won't taste exactly like fried french fries, which of course they don't, would hurt sales. Pfly (talk) 23:56, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Except that the baked version is supposed to be healthier, so they would want to display the word "baked" prominently for health-oriented buyers. StuRat (talk) 00:12, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Do they sell them pre-fried and then frozen to be reheated in the oven ? If so, what do they call that version ? StuRat (talk) 00:13, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Oven fries? Why is this so difficult? μηδείς (talk) 02:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Why is it difficult to accept the unsourced word of an editor in amongst competing answers? That depends, really. Do you claim special access to The Truth? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 03:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

StuRat, I think most frozen fries intended to be oven baked at home are pre-fried to some extent. At least a quick googling seems to indicate such. And that's a good point about health-oriented buyers. I am thinking of just the mass marketed non-health stuff. The very idea of "healthy" french fries of any kind seems strange, but I'm sure they exist. Funny, this is one food topic that doesn't make me hungry. :-) Pfly (talk) 03:36, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

No, my Aussie friend, It has nothing to do with accepting the consensus of foreigners to tell me what exists in America. I am an American who has bought and eaten Oven Fries. They are indeed called Oven Fries. They are marketed as Oven Fries. Yes, they are also called "baked french fries" when an explanation is necessary, just as Fritos are described as corn chips. But the normal term is Oven Fries. I think that's more definitive than some auslander saying "apparently americans...." based on a google search listing recipes. (By the way, I get 244,000 hits for "oven fries" at Bing and 61,600 for "baked french fries". Google seems to have stopped doing strict searches for some reason.) Let's hear some Americans contradict me. I won't have a problem with that. μηδείς (talk) 03:40, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't aware the question was specifically about what they're called in the US. On re-reading, I'm still not aware of that. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 03:56, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I am sure all those "in America" and "in the U.S" phrases above were inhelpful. Note that I have no stand on what they are called in Britain, other than that I think "oven chips" as suggested above sounds quite plausible. Note also that I am not of the opinion that Tofu Burgers originated in the quaint teutonic burg of Toefue.μηδείς (talk) 04:24, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Those are quotes from selected US-based answers. But the first 2 answers were from the UK, so what about them? There were no restrictions in the question, and surely it's the question that sort of matters around here. I'd be very surprised if different names didn't apply in different countries, so there wouldn't be one sole right answer. Much as you seem to want to make it solely about the US, it ain't, mate. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 04:49, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Yup, I'm with the antipodean here. Stating that "the normal term is Oven Fries" is implying that being from the U.S. is normal - it isn't. Believing that being from the U.S. is normal may very well be normal for the U.S., but that doesn't make it true. In most parts of the world, Americans are exotic foreigners, with strange ways. Get used to it... AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:03, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Even within the US there may be striking regional differences. New England, fpr example, often uses quite different terms than the rest of the country. Pfly (talk) 08:40, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

The point was that they are called oven whatevers. Nowhere above did I (or anyone else) say they are called whatever fries, as opposed to whatever chips. I truly believe some sort of professional counseling would help you guys better with your apparent inferiority complex than attributing to me arguments that I haven't made. μηδείς (talk) 19:31, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Nobody has denied you have said they are called Oven Fries. You've said it twice, and I'm sure we heard you loud and clear both times. Trouble is, you saying it is so does not necessarily make it so for all places at all times. You got into hot water when you made the question only about the USA, though it never had any such territorial limitation. That argument was opposed, and you have not defended it. End of issue. Nowhere that I can see has any argument that you did not actually make been attributed to you. What was that you were saying about the need for professional counselling? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:50, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't own either a deep-fat-fryer or a chip-pan so I buy Frozen-oven-chips and call them chips. Simples. I am English and my wife is Scottish, but our recent visitors from Canada (the non-French Bit) insisted they be called French-Fries, despite the source potatoes being extremely Scottish, never having visited France, the sprayed-on-oil being Spanish, and the oven in which they were cooked was Scandinavian. French-fries???????????????????? Nah. CHIPS Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 94.172.118.132 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Anyone puzzled by the term "Simples" or wishing to get a better understanding of the weirdness that is our British sense of humour, may like to click on the surreal world that is Aleksandr Orlov (advertising). --Dweller (talk) 10:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Two-pin plug in the UK

Resolved

I bought an electric toothbrush a couple of days ago, and the plug on it is very similar to this. I am told the socket for this type of plug is common in bathrooms, but we haven't got one. Is it possible to just use a simple three point plug socket, or do I need an adapter? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 16:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

You need an adaptor for a shaver socket, very common. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:25, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Your toothbrush charger is expecting 220VAC, so you can either remove the 2-pin plug and wire the power lead into a conventional 13A 3-pin plug; or you can, as ItsMe says, get an adaptor which is in essence a 13A plug with a couple of holes in the top into which the 2-pin plug fits. Which is all to say, what's required is a physical form factor conversion, not an electrical conversion. (IIRC, you can force the 2-pin plug into a 3-pin socket, but that is not a good way to proceed; the two pins are very slightly closer together than the live & neutral in a 3-pin socket, and you need to get the internal cover to open which generaly requires sticking something into the earth socket ... all to be avoided.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Something like this. Not recommending this dealer in particular! You can probably find one in your nearest supermarket, DIY shop, independent hardware shop... Itsmejudith (talk) 16:43, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

It's far easier to buy an adapter than to re-wire a plug! --Tango (talk) 18:58, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas. I'll pop into the village tomorrow - we have a shop that sepecifically sells adapters, and I'll get the one that Judith mentioned (or something similar). Oddly, I used to have a few, because when I came back from Japan I brought computer equipment with me (for which I have since bought British plugs because I went to Korea to work, and just having adapters to fit adapters would have been silly), but they have disappeared. Cheers. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 21:23, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think those would have worked, anyway. Japan uses a different voltage to the UK, so those adapters would have converted the voltage too, which you probably don't need (although an electric toothbrush would probably work ok on any mains voltage). --Tango (talk) 10:39, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you could take the cord with you and try it out before you buy an adaptor. It may look like something that will fit in a common UK bathroom shaver socket, but it might just as well be a european style plug. They look very similar, but the UK shaver plug has slightly fatter pins that are very slightly closer together than a european plug. You might find the AC power plugs and sockets article useful. Astronaut (talk) 18:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Our BS 1363 article about the wonderful British 3-pin plug, suggests that "Many bathrooms, particularly in hotels, have 2-pin standard "shaver sockets", which usually accommodate both European and US 2-pin plugs." Alansplodge (talk) 23:26, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

The reverse however, is not so certain. I cannot plug my UK electric shaver into my European bathroom socket or any other socket in the house. Astronaut (talk) 14:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

October 8

yamaha 125 tzr motorbike engine

how do you assemble the engine if it is stripped to the core or where will i be able to get a workshop manual for this specific bike. help is urgently needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pieter schuurman (talk • contribs) 07:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

There are some on eBay:[14]. Amazon should have some as well. Get the most comprehensive one you can.--Aspro (talk) 13:23, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

What kind of pet collars are popular in Europe and the United States?

What kind of pet collars are popular in Europe and the United States? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Summer zara (talk • contribs) 09:15, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I would think a ("safe" unless you are actually interested in kinky sex) google image search on the terms "dog collar" and "cat collar" would be the best way to get your answer. μηδείς (talk) 10:52, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

In the US: For cats, they are usually cloth collars with "breakaway" rubber loops on them (that break if the cat gets stuck on something, so they can't get stuck or choke). I've never seen anything but those on cats. For dogs there is more variety because they are used for more than just identification. There is a standard cloth collar. There are varieties of metal "pinch" collars that work against tugging dogs. There are harnesses that hold them more around the shoulders. There are "gentle" harnesses which attach to the head somehow. I think that's all of the variety that I'm used to seeing. (I'm a "dog person" and live in an area where I see dozens of dogs being walked each day.) --Mr.98 (talk) 13:23, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

See also Dog collar. --Psud (talk) 13:58, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I have five dogs and we have plenty of collars. What has been said is accurate and any additional info can surely be found by searching the web sites of any retailers such as PetsMart or PetCo. Dismas|^(talk) 14:07, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Bridal Showers

I have been invited to a bridal shower. The invitation said it is a "show shower", and so the gifts should not be wrapped. What, exactly, is this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.86.144.51 (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Did you read bridal shower? That seems to explain it pretty well.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:32, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I didn't see any explanation of a "show shower" there, although it sounds like it may mean nothing more than "bring unwrapped gifts". StuRat (talk) 22:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

"show shower", so no pressure then! Caesar's Daddy (talk) 22:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

internet acronyms

What is the longest phrase / sentence that you can write only using internet acronyms? Harley Spleet (talk) 15:25, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Acronyms are nearly all nouns, so I don't see how one could create a phrase or sentence using only acronyms.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

My favorite from my days in Eve Online probably has the most letters - OMGWTFBBQ. You can add a LULZ at the end, but it becomes TL;DR FTL-- Obsidi♠n Soul 19:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

What if you then add QSO DSV KN to the end of that? 148.197.81.179 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:09, 9 October 2011 (UTC).

Queensland Symphony Orchestra Diving Support Vessel Knudsen Number? I approve.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 11:18, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

What are "internet acronyms" and how do they differ from normal acronyms? 82.43.90.142 (talk) 06:44, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps OP is referring to textspeak. I have a friend with whom I regularly correspond by text. We make up our own initialisms on the fly and can usually understand each other. Textspeak is not acronyms.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:41, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

pre-mature ejaculation

how to prevent it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.82.128 (talk) 15:32, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Did you read premature ejaculation? We can't give you medical advice, but there are some suggestions in the article.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:37, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Think of baseball, or England if you're closeted. Dualus (talk) 04:55, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Or, wait until you're mature (as opposed to trying it when you're pre-mature). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:25, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

It's probably better if you didn't chime in on everything bugs. Shadowjams (talk) 10:31, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

That's why I don't. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:14, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

string theory

can anyone explain this in way average people like me would understand. im wondering why is this a candidate for TOE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.82.2 (talk) 15:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion for easing your way into this is to read (or watch) Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe, which, though it has some parts that make real scientists squirm (and the book is a little out of date), is a nice overview of why scientists like string theory in particular, and why they think it makes a nice candidate for a TOE, and also some of the major challenges that they have with regards to it. --Mr.98 (talk) 17:49, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

TOE? Would that be Theory of everything? Astronaut (talk) 17:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Undoubtedly. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:18, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

"String theory is often called the 'Theory of Everything' (TOE). However, since so far it makes no predictions observable by experiment, a better name might be the 'Theory of Everything Not Appearing in Laboratories' (TOENAIL)." — Warren Siegel
-- BenRG (talk) 06:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The problem with string theory is, not even physicists understand it, so of course they can't really explain it to average people. That, naturally, won't stop people to write popular science books on it. – b_jonas 18:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

No human could ever possibly understand an omipotent and eternal being who created the universe out of nothing, but that sure hasn't stopped people talking and writing about God forever. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:00, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

But creating fantasy fiction is much easier than describing a ToE that, to be scientific, has to accord with observable (and by everyday standards quite weird) reality :-) . {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.142 (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

If you get bored of high dimensional space, there is the possibility that the universe 2-D instead of 3-D which is well regarded and increasing in popularity especially in the U.K. Dualus (talk) 04:53, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Specification for Bell & Howell Micro Plus ?

This is a low-end hearing aid. I'd like to know the following:

1) What battery does it use ?

2) Is it a directional microphone ? If so, specifically what type (shotgun, cardioid, etc.)

I'd also be interested in seeing any reviews of the product (originating from anyone who isn't trying to sell it, of course). Thanks. StuRat (talk) 21:17, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Hat etiquette in 1935

Were men allowed to keep their hats on inside a courthouse in 1935 Alabama? I am asking because I am playing the role of Judge Taylor in the stage version of "To Kill A Mockingbird" and there is one actor who is wearing a hat and it just bothers me and seems like it would be considered disrespectful. Thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.46.18.178 (talk) 23:16, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Definitely not. The judge would have reacted as in My Cousin Vinny.μηδείς (talk) 23:29, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Or for that matter, as he reacted in Disorder in the Court. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Here is a still from the 1962 film - only the ladies retain their hats. It was made less than 30 years after the book was written, but the story was told as a recollection of childhood memories, so must have been set a few years earlier than 1935. Alansplodge (talk) 23:43, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

The dude on the left is a time traveller from our day — he's answering his cell phone in court and getting away with it! Comet Tuttle (talk) 07:03, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Where does that happen? Last time I was in a courtroom, if a cell phone was even seen, the judge [15] confiscated it and it cost $20 to get it back. — Michael J 20:11, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

That's quite a trick to get a connection to a cell tower that won't be there for another few decades. Googlemeister (talk) 14:19, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Men are not typically allowed to wear headgear, except religious headgear, in courtrooms even today... Neutrality^talk 00:09, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

A restriction on wearing a hat in the courtroom meets this standard. First, it is reasonably related to the maintenance of courtroom civility and respect for the judicial process. Judges have an obligation to maintain the dignity of judicial proceedings and to oversee courtrooms in a manner that promotes their integrity. Requiring litigants to remove their hats out of respect for this process is reasonably calculated to advance these valid interests. Similarly, it is appropriate for a court to expect litigants to appear in attire that is suitable to the dignity of a courtroom, rather than to show up in clothes they might have worn to a baseball game. The reasonable admonishment of litigants who wear casual or inappropriate attire promotes legitimate ends by reminding them that the judicial process deserves to be approached with respect.

Footnote: The interests in courtroom order and decorum may also be outweighed by an individual’s right to wear a hat based upon the dictates of his or her religious practice. See, e.g., Tyson, 2004 WL 1837033, at 6 ("Accepted standards of courtroom etiquette do not necessarily prevail over an individual’s exercise of his religion, if the latter does not impact courtroom security or interfere in courtroom procedures."); Close-It Enterprises, Inc. v. Weinberger, 407 N.Y.S.2d 587, 588 (2d Dep’t 1978) (finding right of defendant to wear religious skullcap in courtroom). Of course, no such religious practice is implicated here.

On this side of the pond, the judge doesn't go bareheaded either. Alansplodge (talk) 01:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

October 9

Hupp Motor Car Company

Did the Hupp Motor Car Company ever have a factory in Windsor ON. Canada? I saw a print in the TD Canada Trust branch in Windsor saying circa 1913.Is this true?Please reply to <email address removed> Thanks for your time and hopefully your reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.177.43 (talk) 02:47, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I've remove the e-mail address from the post. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:08, 9 October 2011 (UTC)>

Yes[16] Thincat (talk) 19:18, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Growth in the number of archaeologists in the Middle East and North Africa besides Israel and Egypt

So, my Human Cultural Beginnings professor was going over various sites of prehistoric hominin (apparently now the accepted term for hominid) finds and I noted that many of the sites were in Israel. She said that it was mostly because it has the heaviest concentration of archaeologists and many are not welcome in much of the rest of the Middle East and North Africa. She said that most people in other countries tend to desire career paths as things like engineers, but there is emerging a new trend of people becoming archaeologists in the countries other than the two up top.

So, I would like to know if there is possibly, idk, some sort of chart, graph or report on this showing the number of people graduating from institutions of higher learning with archaeological degrees (though I suspect the education systems vary from place to place with some possibly being based on the US system and others French or British). I suspect this would be in Arabic, a language I can niether read nor understand sadly. Though I could be wrong and it might be in English (though I'm not sure what to look for English-wise). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tishrei 5772 05:37, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Just looking at the UK experience, we see that archaeology degrees have become more popular over the last few years (possibly due to Time Team). Here is an overview of undergraduate courses, while here explains that there is a rise in graduate jobs as archaeologists. By the way, I suspect that the reason for the heavy concentration of archaeologists in Israel is because of a preoccupation with "proving the Bible true" in our forebears. --TammyMoet (talk) 07:00, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, I think that Indy is the reason for many people in the US. What? Jobs? You mean archaeologists can actually get a job in the UK? What am I going after this silly Medical Degree then? :p Part of the reason; it also used to be that people in Israel wanted to find their past there, where they come from. There was also a Zionist ideal in it as well which has born fruit so far. When I think about it though, a lot of it is just digging, interpretation and not so much trying to prove the Bible true, but seeing how the stories in the Bible match up to the evidence. Some people also dig for things not covered by the Bible, but it's a bitch getting funding then. (Various science institutes: Sure, one of the largest Canaanite palaces is interesting, but where's this site talked about in the Bible at all? *NSF and other groups hand money to site about Joshua or w/e*), So I think it is also about being able to get funding. My dig directors are very honest btw, and have told about some less than honest people in other places that claim some Biblical association to get funding.

You know, when I think it about it. Most of those countries are quite oppressive and might not release such stats normally; though that doesn't make sense. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tishrei 5772 07:35, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Regarding hominid vs. hominin, you might take a look at this page. Looie496 (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I consider it to be a big pain in the ass, so if no one minds I think I'll use hominid (it's still kinda correct, just a lot broader). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tishrei 5772 21:16, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I suppose it depends on whether you mean Western archaeologists visiting sites in the Middle East, or Middle Eastern archaeologists visiting sites in their home countries. Considering the way some westerners are welcomed in the Middle East (see: [17] and [18] for archaeology related examples; and [19], [20], [21], [22] for more general examples) maybe only Israel and Egypt are considered safe enough for archaeological digs. Astronaut (talk) 14:16, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I was referring to home-grown archaeologists excavating in their own countries mostly. Syria has some digs, I know that much, but not atm given that someone there is being naughty. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tishrei 5772 21:16, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

If you find interesting information, please see if you can add something to Archeology of Israel. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:58, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Like what? I do archaeology in Israel and would be happy to contribute. :) Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tishrei 5772 21:16, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The article has an ongoing tension. Should it be about "how archeology is done in Israel" or should it be about "what archeologists have found out about Israel". Have a read and see what you think. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:26, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

When I've time; I must currently spend most of my times focused on German and early hominid development (damn dirty non-apes). Wouldn't it be logical to have both method (even though I fucking hate archaeological theory except for post-post-processualism/neo-pragmatism or culture history) and finds? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 12 Tishrei 5772 07:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Spare change

Why can't I use my spare change account that has money in it instead of buying facebook credits to buy credits in different games? Please help me I'm not sure who to contact or how to take care of this and I don't know how to get credits (they have me blocked due to my account being hacked in the spring of this year) so the only way I can buy credits for a game is through spare change however I can only find one game that allows me to use this site (Diligo slot game.) Sorry to take up your time, and thank you for any help you can provide for me.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kendrakay458 (talk • contribs) 09:58, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I really haven't a clue what you are asking about, but if this is about paying for a Facebook game perhaps you should be asking at Facebook's user help, rather than here on the Wikipedia reference desk. Astronaut (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Each year, about how many of NYC’s tourists will actually leave Manhattan to see and go to the popular tourist destinations in the outer boroughs?

I’ve been told many times by New Yorkers that the majority of the NYC tourists go to Manhattan never leave the island except when they have to go back to the airport to go back to their homes, but out of the approximately 50 million tourists, who visit NYC every year now, how many of them are estimated to actually leave Manhattan to the outer boroughs to see and go to places like the Bronx Zoo, the New York Botanical Gardens in the Bronx, Flushing Meadow-Corona Park, Yankee Stadium in the Bronx, “The Hub” in the Bronx, Coney Island in Brooklyn, Prospect Park in Brooklyn, the Brooklyn Chinatown, and drive or walk across the Brooklyn Bridge from Manhattan to Brooklyn, and take the Staten Island Ferry from Manhattan to Staten Island, etc? I have not seen any official numbers, which I've been looking around for. Willminator (talk) 13:32, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't know where you would get such figures since IDs like passports are not usually checked when visiting parks. How would statistics on tourist visitor numbers ever be collected? However, I have visited New York City a number of times as a (foreign) tourist and have crossed the harbour on the Statten Island Ferry and walked across the Brooklyn Bridge; though I admit both trips were for the purpose of taking photos of Manhattan rather then visiting a different borough. I also have a liking for local sporting events and on a future visit I would like to try to get tickets for a game at Yankee Stadium. Astronaut (talk) 13:43, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

You couldn't do a full census, sure, but you could get very accurate results by just asking a sample of people as they leave. It wouldn't surprise me if the relevant tourism board has done such surveys. --Tango (talk) 15:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, if some tourists guides and websites, and some New Yorkers say that the majority of NYC tourists only stay in Manhattan for tourism; then would that indicate that there would be an official annual count for that somewhere to back that claim up? Would there be a count somewhere that says how many tourists visit Manhattan each year vs. how many for each of the other boroughs? Willminator (talk) 20:14, 9 October 2011 (UTC) Edit: If the city can determine the number of annual tourist arrivals to the whole city (~50 million), then surely they can determine the number of tourist arrivals for each individual borough for tourism reasons only, but I can't find for some reason relevant tourism surveys about this matter, but there are plenty for the city as a whole though. Willminator (talk) 22:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The Brooklyn Bridge and the Staten Island Ferry are major tourist attractions in Manhattan, so some tourists, at least, would visit the ends of the line, which are in other boroughs. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 20:43, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I can't find a citation that has actual numbers in it, but New York is a popular destination for "Shopping Tourism". There are package tours specifically for this purpose. (Especially when the dollar is weak against the pound or euro.) If your trip's primary purpose is shopping, I suppose you'd stay in Manhattan. APL (talk) 04:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Lights in fridges

Why do fridges have lights inside them? (And if there is a good reason for the light, why don't freezers have them?) 91.84.181.211 (talk) 19:17, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

To see the food. Frozen food is less likely to spill, in general, so there is less need for illumination. 64.134.157.164 (talk) 19:39, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

In my experience, freezers are either compartments at the top of a fridge that aren't big enough for anything to get lost it, have drawers that pull out so you can see what's in them using the light in your ceiling, or open at the top so, again, you can use the light in your ceiling. Fridges usually have shelves, which means things are usually in the shadow of the shelf above. I'm not really sure why fridges have shelves while freezers have drawers (and, of course, there are exceptions to both), but I guess it has something to do with the types of food you put in them. Food that goes in freezers tends to be square and easy to pack close and fill your freezer very full (which, incidentally, makes it more efficient since there isn't as much cold air to escape when you open the door). Food that goes in fridges tends to be odd shapes that wouldn't really work in drawers. Also, you get things out of fridges more often and drawers are much slower. --Tango (talk) 19:58, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

A freezer light would often be quite useful, and it seems odd they don't have them. Sometimes frozen food is wrapped in freezer paper with pencil writing identifying it, and it is a pain to take packages out to get enough light to see what the label says, or to view the contents of a clear plastic bag. Edison (talk) 20:31, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Many fridge-freezer units nowadays have lights in both compartments. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:04, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Our GE freezer in NY has a light in it, but our one in Greenwich does not last I check (or maybe it does, but no one here remembers). I guess some have them and some do not. I think it has to do with how deep the freezer is. So that if you have one where the back doesn't go very far back there's no light whereas one that does go far back does have a light. Of course I could be completely wrong. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tishrei 5772 21:11, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The light in our fridge burned out. We replaced it but it burned out again shortly after. Instead of going through bulbs every couple months or spending several hundred dollars on a new fridge, we've learned to live without it. So, I can tell you from years of experience that having a light is incredibly handy. When we open our fridge, our body is now in the open doorway and blocking most of the ambient light from the room. So it would be nice to have a light in there. Dismas|^(talk) 02:09, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Another reason is that an incandescent light in the freezer might tend to implode, due to sudden changes in temperature, and might tend to thaw out nearby food, as well. Fluorescent lights don't work well at freezer temperatures. I'm not sure about LEDs. Do they work at such low temps ? If so, we may soon see them in freezers. StuRat (talk) 02:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

For experts in magic

is there a magic trick so secret and so good that no other magician is able to duplicate it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.82.1 (talk) 23:22, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Check out here (go down to #1). Apparently, this is a card trick known by exactly two people (the man who invented it, and the man he taught) and no one has figured out how they do it. --Jayron32 00:03, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

October 10

Articles that link to an image

I'm not sure the best place to ask about this. I went into the image of "Young Bekie" in Ballad#Classification. In the File links section it says No pages on the English Wikipedia link to this file. Shouldn't it say that Ballad links to it? SlightSmile 02:12, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Hm, weird. But, you're right; allow me to point you to Wikipedia:Help desk. Comet Tuttle (talk) 02:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Lack of beef hot dogs in Israel

So I have a simple question no Israeli has been able to answer for me as of yet. Why is it that there is not one beef hot dog in the whole State of Israel? I know the beef isn't very good oftentimes, but it's no reason to have only chicken and turkey dogs. So why are there no beef dogs there? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 12 Tishrei 5772 07:24, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

See [23] ... there are kosher beef hot dogs in Israel it seems. Collect (talk) 08:04, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Careful, Collect, or you'll get your spelling of kosher "corrected" (scare quotes very much intended) by the OP. --Viennese Waltz 09:00, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

VW—SWMFP did not specify a kashrut status. Kashrut status was only introduced in a response. Kashrut status was not specified in the posted question. Obviously there is a difference between a kasher hot dog and a non-kasher hot dog, but this doesn't seem to be the essence of this question. Bus stop (talk) 11:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

A kosher beef hot dog is a "beef hot dog." (In the US, "Hebrew National" is a major producer of hot dogs.) I sued the term because it is the term found in the source I gave. Cheers, but the question posed was answered. Collect (talk) 12:00, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, if I checked carefully enough, the source refers to kosher style hot dogs. But I guess, why quibble? Bus stop (talk) 12:12, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The Tirat Tzvi sausages referred to in the chowhound source are made on Kibbutz Tirat Zvi and are widely available in Israel and in kosher shops in many other countries. --Dweller (talk) 12:32, 10 October 2011 (UTC)