Talk:Sitti Nurbaya/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Yllosubmarine (talk · contribs) 18:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I will complete my review within the next day or two. Thanks in advance for your patience -- while you're waiting, perhaps you'd like to take some time to help with the backlog? :) María (habla conmigo) 18:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! Regarding the backlog, I've pulled my weight. Looking forward to collaborating with you to ensure this passes the GA criteria. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:29, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome. María (habla conmigo) 18:25, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I know very little about Indonesian literature, so I'm coming to this article as a bit of an outsider. Overall, however, I think this article is in very good shape, and it won't take much for its promotion to GA. Here is how it stands against the criteria:

Well-written: For the most part; see issues below.
Factually accurate and verifiable: Yes.
Broad in its coverage: Yes.
Neutral: Yes.
Stable: Yes.
Illustrated, if possible, by images: Yes, although see suggestion directly following.

Cover image

Note: this is only a suggestion, and whether or not it can be addressed will have no bearing on its promotion to GA.

The current image in the infobox is certainly visually appealing, but there are those who are really very much against using Fair Use images when free ones may be available. Since the book was published in 1922, a first edition cover or title page may be in the public domain -- but a couple preliminary searches don't seem to result in anything. So, to make a stronger fair use rationale, it would help to have a stronger case for why this particular cover image is noteworthy. I see that a couple other Wiki projects are using this cover image, however; is this a more notable depiction of the book?

I am not sure which edition that is from, and for written works Indonesian copyright law is 50 years after the death of the author (not sure how that applies to cover designs). If the design follows the law for text, then it is still copyrighted in Indonesia until 2018. Regarding this particular image, I will add that the cover of the most recent edition is being used to keep it up to date, as the first edition cover has not been found.

Okay, thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. Strengthening the FU rationale is a great move, and you may also want to consider adding a short description (44th printing?) to the image-caption field in the infobox. If nothing else, it'll help give the reader an example of the work's popularity. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

...the stated-owned publisher and literary bureau of the Dutch East Indies... -- "state-owned"?

Owned by the government. Perhaps "government-owned"?

Sure, although I believe it was just a typo in the earlier wording. :) María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nurbaya marries the abusive and rich Datuk Meringgih as a way for her father to escape debt. -- The plot makes it clear that Nurbaya offers herself to Meringgih, but here in the lead it's more ambiguous. Since it's an important plot point, and indicative of her character/selflessness, perhaps make it stronger here?

I've tried changing the wording.

Much better, thanks. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Writing

According to Bakri Siregar, an Indonesian socialist literary critic, this influence affected the positive descriptions of Dutch culture in Sitti Nurbaya, as well as the kissing scene. This is slightly confusing, because at this point in the article (before plot and characters, and themes) the reading audience may know nothing about the book's kissing scene, nor any positive depiction of the Dutch. Perhaps if this were reworded to emphasize the inspiration and not the plot points?

Reworded

Great, it reads much better now, thanks. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Plot

When and where does this story take place? Maybe include the time period/Dutch East Indies for context?

Reworded, although I'm not that happy with it. Any suggestions?

Hmm, I think "in the contemporary" throws me a little. Let's face it, most readers skip the more "scholarly" sections of a book article and go straight for the plot section, so they won't know what "contemporary" is. Maybe, "In early 20th-century Padang, part of the Dutch East Indies"? If it seems too wordy, it can even be broken into a separate sentence: "The novel takes place in early 20th-century Padang..." Anything to help set the scene, I think.

Similar to my first point, the uprising against the Dutch is mentioned in the last paragraph here, but is this a plot point/device throughout? Although pro-Dutch claims made later in the article, it's kind of hard to get a grasp of historic context right off the bat.

No, it comes (essentially) out of nowhere. Between one chapter (~~chapter 9 if I'm not mistaken, can't find my copy of the book at the moment~~ chapter 13) and the next the plot skips ahead 10 years. Nurbaya is already dead, and the reader thinks Samsu is too. No foreshadowing that Meringgih will be leading a revolt.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just so used to thinking of story-structure in an entirely European fashion! María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Samsulbahri and Sitti Nurbaya are teenage neighbours, classmates, and childhood friends, children of Sutan Mahmud Syah and Baginda Sulaiman, rich noblemen from Padang. This sentence has quite a few commas, which caused me some pause while reading. What do you think about introducing a couple en dashes: "Samsulbahri and Sitti Nurbaya – children of Sutan Mahmud Syah and Baginda Sulaiman, rich noblemen from Padang – are teenage neighbours, classmates, and childhood friends." Or if you'd rather emphasize their parents, you can put the "teenage neighbors, etc." bit inside dashes?

Tried rewording

I fixed the dashes, but it looks good to me. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When they get caught, Samsu is chased out of Padang and goes to Batavia. -- Caught by whom? I would reword it as: "When they are caught by ***, Samsu..."

Added the information

...instigates a plan to bankrupt him. -- "instigate" is a great word, but wordiness bogs things down and waters down meaning: plans?

Sure, that works (come to think of it)

...she dies after unwittingly eating a cake poisoned by Meringgih's men. -- Hmm, the lead states that Nurbaya is "killed by Meringgih". So did Meringgih order her to be poisoned?
Samsu apparently commits suicide. Gasp! How?

Not sure how he managed to fake it (detail somewhat lacking in the book), but the MO is there now

Style

...but a "Balai Pustaka style" of formal Malay, as required by the publisher. -- This is the first time that the body of the article mentions the publisher, which the lead notes was state-owned and tied with the Dutch East Indies government. Per WP:LEAD, this information should be expanded upon later in the article; perhaps here?

Added

"clichéed descriptions" -- clichéd?

Okay, should've consulted the article on Cliché. Done.

Reception

His later novel, Anak dan Kemenakan was even more critical of older generation's inflexibility. -- Since this novel doesn't have an article yet, perhaps include the publication date in parentheses after the title?

Done

Until 1930 (at least), Sitti Nurbaya was one of Balai Pustaka's most popular works... -- Why the parenthetical aside? "Until at least 1930"?

done

Sitti Nurbaya inspired numerous authors, including Nur Sutan Iskandar... -- So the reader doesn't have to click over, maybe include Iskandar's dates here, or a time-frame? I'm guessing if most readers are like me, they won't know when these highly influenced works would have been written.

Done

Adaptations

When was it first translated into English?

I'll look for it.

Couldn't find anything. A translation was made by the Lontar Foundation in 2009, but it must have been translated before that.

I believe that about does it. Most of what I've noted are minor points, but feel free to take your time in addressing them. Like I said previously, the article is in overall great shape, so it won't take much to ensure it meets the criteria. I'll put this review on hold until you've had a chance to look things over. Let me know (either here or via my talk page) if you have any questions! María (habla conmigo) 18:25, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've replied to your comments above. Sadly I cannot find any information on the first translation date. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if it's not in the sources, it's not in the sources. Thanks for looking, though! I believe there's just the small issue of the first sentence in the lead to consider now. All of your changes look good to me, so once that's taken care of, I'll be happy to promote the article. Great work so far! María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that about does it. I've added a caption etc. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, that was fast! Congrats, this article now meets the criteria, so I'll go ahead and promote it. Thanks for your hard work and dedication. María (habla conmigo) 23:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the nice, thorough review! (glad the timezones were working for us today) Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:08, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome. I don't usually edit over the weekend, but I know what it feels like to wait for a reviewer to check in. :) Best wishes, María (habla conmigo) 23:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]