Talk:Koi

Origin

In fact the fish and the Japanese Kanji "錦鯉" were both originated from China in Jin Dynasty (265–420). It was first developed by Buddhism monks in temple pools. It became popular in Tang Dynasty. The fish became a element of literature especially Tang poems. One example:

Tang poet Lu Guimeng 〈奉酬襲美苦雨〉: "層雲愁天低，久雨倚檻冷。絲禽藏荷香，錦鯉繞島影。 心將時人乖，道與隱者靜。桐陰無深泉，所以逞短綆。" (Buhuzu (talk) 21:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC))

A few links have been added as references to the origin of the common carp and selective breeding done for carp with mutations to arrive at koi. There seems to be some dispute as to the origins, which would be expected. But any dispute regarding Origins should have references to back it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.240.1.2 (talk) 01:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There is currently a reference that goldfish were selectively bred from the common carp. However, clicking into the reference indicates that the goldfish was selectively bred from the Gibel carp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.2.124.130 (talk) 19:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

There was much information related to goldfish origins in the 'Origin' section that I don't see as related to Koi, being they originated from two seperate species of carp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.2.124.130 (talk) 19:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree that information related to the origins of goldfish should not be in the Origin section for Koi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jediknight95758 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree on several counts with the individuals (individual?) For one, the information was verified. The references were updated to not be commercial. All of the statements were verifiable in the sites listed. I also agree that origins of goldfish do not belong in origins of koi. In true 'encyclopedia' fashion, the origins of another species would not appear in the origin information of a different one.

I'm also not seeing this 'lawrencekhoo' individual participating in the Talk discussion. It seems odd to me that one user would be expected to use the Talk section first, but another user would not be.

This origins section for koi should also not address the broad group of carp as a whole. There is a wikipedia entry for carp that should capture that information. The Origins section for koi should specifically address the origins of Koi from the common carp (Cyprinus carpio). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexa415 (talk • contribs) 23:22, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

There are seperate articles to address the carp family origins as a whole, as well as the origins of goldfish. The origins of goldfish should not be comingled in an article about koi, specifically in a section related to the origins of koi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.179.0 (talk) 08:26, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Currently the article states that Koi were developed in the 1820s. But the article also discusses Hanako, supposedly a koi born in the 1750s. Sound fishy? 140.180.34.83 (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

There was a revision that was altered with a claim of 'vandalism', from LawrenceKHoo. I saw no vandalism. All information was sourced, relevant to the article, and verifiable. How was any of that 'vandalism'. In fact, there is now more irrelevant information in the current version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.78.243.111 (talk) 05:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

The prior version that was altered with the false allegation of 'vandalism' was from me. You are correct that there was no vandalism, and the prior version was fully verifiable and sources added. The user LawrenceKHoo again reverted it back without making any attempt to utilize these talk pages, and made another false allegation that inaccuracies were introduced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.48.52.241 (talk) 22:26, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Hanako Anachronism

If Koi truly were first developed in the 1820's, then allegations of Koi exceeding 200 years in age (e.g. Hanako born c. 1750, later in the article) are obviously false. The idea of 1 ring = 1 year is an assumption that does not appear to have been verified for this species. Fishbase gives a much more plausible maximum lifespan of 38 years for the common carp, likely applicable to the koi derivatives.

I've also been bothered by those statements for some time. We should inject the proper amount of skepticism into those reports of long lived koi. Please feel free to do so, I'll try to add something later. LK (talk) 08:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I take the 1820s date as the development of organized breeding, which doesn't preclude naturally-colored individuals having been found earlier. Indeed, if word got out to the countryside that brightly-colored fish were desirable and worth some money, that would be an incentive to try one's hand at making more... Stan (talk) 17:33, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Koi pond: dup or ad?

Can someone examine the Koi pond article to double-check that it worths staying in Wikipedia as is, or merging here, or maybe removing? It is written a bit like in promo style, but definitely non-encyclopaedic. Honeyman (talk) 13:35, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Should Asian Carp and Koi article be merged

Shouldn't these two articles be merged or make the Koi article a sub-section in the Asian Carp article. Seems redunant.

Asian Carp is Chinese domesticated:

grass carp (Ctenopharyngodon idella)

common carp (Cyprinus carpio)

silver carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix)

largescale silver carp (Hypophthalmichthys harmandi)

bighead carp (Hypophthalmichthys nobilis)

black carp (Mylopharyngodon piceus)

common goldfish (Carassius auratus)

crucian carp (Carassius carassiu)

Koi is domesticated common carp (Which the Chinese already domesticated) Why do we have a separate article about Koi?

Isn't Koi just the shortened Japanese word for Asian Carp or Chinese domesticated Common Carp. Seems redundant, we can end up with all sorts of names (The vietnamese name for Carp then have an article on that, Thai name for Carp and have a article on that, and on and on, etc. Seems redundant. We should merge these articles. --165.214.4.23 (talk) 05:36, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

One of the things that should be noted. Koi is not the shortened word for Carp in Japanese. Goi is the Japanese word for you standard common carp which has not been selectively bred. Koi is the shortened form of the word, Nishikigoi which specifically refers to carp that have been selectively bred for color.

It should also be noted that if you look at the timeframes for domestication, from as early as 27 BC, the common carp was known to have been domesticated already in Europe in the Roman Empire. This would pre-date Chinese domestication.

Finally, under your logic, to merge all of these articles into one, under the premise that it is the same species of fish; you would need to merge all of the breeds of dog into one species since they are all Canis lupus and merge all of the breeds of domesticated cats into Felis catus. 153.48.52.241 (talk) 19:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Koi can live for centuries???

Contradiction?!

"Koi can live for centuries. One famous scarlet koi, named "Hanako" (c. 1751 – July 7, 1977) was owned by several individuals, the last of whom was Dr. Komei Koshihara. Hanako was reportedly 226 years old upon her death.[12][13][14][15] Her age was determined by removing one of her scales and examining it extensively in 1966. She is (to date) the longest-lived vertebrate ever recorded."

Varieties/Asagi Koi : contradiction in Japanese text

The description of the Asagi Koi reads:

"Asagi (浅黄?) A koi that is light blue above and usually red, but also occasionally pale yellow or cream, generally below the lateral line and on the cheeks. The Japanese name means pale greenish-blue, spring onion colour, or indigo. Sometime incorrectly written as 浅黄 (light yellow)." [the question mark on the first text is a link to help displaying Japanese characters]

The name and the "sometimes incorrectly written as" are identical, Unicode hex codes 6D45-9EC4. Google Translate suggested 浅葱 (Ux6D45-8471), but I don't speak Japanese and therefore have no idea whether that's a better translation.

Lincmad (talk) 02:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

TI do read, write and speak Japanese, and also work in the koi business in Japan. The correct Japanese for Asagi , as used by koi breeders in Japan is 浅黄 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulman (talk • contribs) 07:22, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Jawiki

ja:コイ is subspecies Koi or species Common carp? Newone (talk) 10:28, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Are there koi in Central Park? I think I saw one there back in 2005 when I visited New York —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.211.43 (talk) 01:06, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

age of koi

in the article it says the koi were developed in the 1820s but later on its says the oldest koi was 226, so 1820+226=2046 this cant be right,

also this particular koi is mentioned to have been born in yr1751 both these things cant be true. i think we should put "it has been claimed that the koi lived for 226 yrs" since even common sense will tell you the story is absurd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123465421jhytwretpo98721654 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 4 September 2011 (UTC)