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Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2011 December 8

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by AnomieBOT (talk | contribs) at 02:02, 16 December 2011 ((BOT) Close discussions for deleted/nonexistent files: [too many to list] Errors? User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/IFDCloser). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

December 8

File:Me singing.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Calderon01 (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Orphaned userphoto. Kelly hi! 07:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:Hugo Chávez (1992 Coup Surrender).jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Caracas1830 (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Relisting per Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 December 1. I abstain. King of 09:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the sources brought up at the DRV --Guerillero | My Talk 05:44, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. At the previous FfD, I argued for delete, based on NFCC#8 grounds. At this point, I'm neutral, because it's only a frame capture from a TV broadcast, so it strikes me as very unlikely to replace the original market role for the copyright holder. However, the DRV, which I just saw, really mis-characterized what I had said, and I'm not seeing new sources that really change the NFCC status. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:16, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why would that make you neutral? Even if it passes WP:NFCC2, it still has to pass NFCC8 as well. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, since you ask... because it's not that big a deal to me. But, logically, you are definitely correct that failing #8 does not get a pass just because we aren't too worried about market role replacement. For the benefit of the poor closer, who has to read what I've written here (sorry!), let's say I'm leaning delete. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Fails WP:NFCC8. To the extent this is being used to illustrate Chavez's trademark look, we can illustrate this look using other free images, or with text alone. There is no need to use this particular nonfree image of Chavez. Even an important photo has to pass all of the NFCC, and this one is replaceable with text ("Hugo Chavez wore his trademark red beret and a military uniform when he announced...") or a free image. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:15, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This is non-notable image of a notable moment in history. As argued above and elsewhere, the role intended for this image in the article can be fulfilled by already available free imagery. --damiens.rf 19:38, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep I've argued at length for this image elsewhere, but just to clear up some remaining misconceptions:
    1. This image is not "being used to illustrate Chavez's trademark look." For one thing, at the time that this image was taken Chávez was essentially unknown and did not have a "trademark look." If anything, this image depicts the construction of Chávez's image in and through the media.
    2. This is not a "non-notable image of a notable moment in history" in that what is notable is not so much the event in itself (Chávez's surrender) as the fact that it is broadcast live, on national television.
  • In other words, it is its transmission as a televised image that makes this event notable. This is what impresses the event, and its figurehead Hugo Chávez, into public consciousness as he famously says (to a now national audience) that the attempt to transform the country is to be given up "for now" ("por ahora"). Otherwise, it would have been just another coup attempt among many (and not even the only one in that country in that year).
  • For sources, see those brought up at the DRV, or basically any biography of Hugo Chávez. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 22:48, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The broadcasting was arguably an important event, but we don't need this or any other image to explain that. --damiens.rf 16:52, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • About sources, I've read the DRV, and I'm really not seeing any cogent argument that there are new sources that change the situation. Maybe there are, and they just haven't been explained clearly enough, but all I see is a few editors repeatedly saying that there are new sources that change everything, without saying what the sources are, or what of relevance to NFCC they illustrate. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:50, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • NFCC #8 is inherently subjective. If a subject expert and a Wikipedia administrator says that it passes it, I am inclined to go along with him. As it clearly meets the rest of the criteria, this is a clear keep for me. A question for those arguing to delete: how many biographies of Hugo Chavez have you taken a look at? NW (Talk) 18:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What does being an administrator have to do with it? (Gee, I'm only a regular editor, so I guess my opinion doesn't count as much.) Anyway, I agree with you that #8 is subjective (although the last time I looked, it said that an image should significantly enhance the reader's understanding, whether or not that reader also read a biography of the subject). --Tryptofish (talk) 22:48, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I used administrator to differentiate from the standard academic who is unfamiliar with Wikipedia. As an admin, or more specifically as an experienced editor, Jbmurray is familiar with Wikipedia processes in addition to the academic literature. NW (Talk) 05:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Straightforward NFCC #8 failure, which states "if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding". A convincing argument that this screencap is essential to the article has not been made. He tried a coup, it failed, he gave a press conference. Notable event. An image of him in mid-speech? Not so much. Tarc (talk) 20:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
File:Menleesy.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Gusuh (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Orphaned userphoto. Kelly hi! 14:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]