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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 99.181.143.108 (talk) at 03:52, 27 December 2011 (clearly IPCC relevant http://ipcc-wg2.gov/SREX/ http://ipcc-wg2.gov/SREX/images/uploads/SREX_fact_sheet.pdf). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former good article nomineeIntergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 31, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed

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I have found a number of important citations with broken links. I cannot make any more edits, could someone please correct, or remove these? 173.58.71.50 (talk) 22:07, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good gosh a golly, yes, it's terrible! Outright violation of WP:Verifiability. (Don't any of these editors know how to cite?) There are incomplete citations, very incomplete (i.e., bare url) citations, and some of those are dead links. Well, I can fix some of that (though my plate is getting rather full, perhaps not right away). But I will do it my way -- including {{Harv}} templates. I am not going query, ask, or propose, for the simple reason that as all of you watching this article have failed to fix these glaring violations you have effectively quit the field. Assuming these are not fixed before I get started, I will let you know when I am done. _ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 00:56, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not a scientific body

Even the opening sentence of the article is wrong. The IPCC is essentially a political body not a scientific one. It's brief is uphold the theory that CO2 is causing global warming. So naturally it does this, come what may. SmokeyTheCat 21:30, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lacking reliable sources to support your statement, it's just an opinion. And that's not what this is built on. And before you get all hot to argue the point, please note that this is not a forum. – J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:07, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not be so hasty when attacking uncomfortable suggestions, please!. WP may not be a forum, but Talk Pages are definitely a forum for improving the article. So, in that respect, this IS indeed a forum. Perhaps the statement could be reconsidered as a poorly-worded request to improve the article by including more discussion of the political ambitions of the IPCC. How are we going to deal with the recent revelation that two-thirds of the IPCC's Climate Bible were written by World Wildlife Fund flacks? Eight of the authors of the Ecosystems chapter were written by authors affiliated with the WWF. How will we improve the credibility of this article if we don't discuss the political roles of Environmental Defense Fund, Greenpeace, and the WWF within the IPCC? Santamoly (talk) 03:15, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that what Smokey said is significant, and I'd like us to make some effort to find reliable sources that support (and oppose) the viewpoint he introduces.

  • Supporters of the anthropogenic global warming theory (AGW) generally assert that the IPCC is an objective source of scientific information.
  • Opponents of AGW have been accusing the IPCC of bias for at least 25 years.

In accordance with NPOV policy, therefore, I request that we present both pro-IPCC and anti-IPCC viewpoints. --Uncle Ed (talk) 13:52, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[The IPCC] was established [...] to provide the world with a clear scientific view on the current state of knowledge in climate change and its potential environmental and socio-economic impacts. [...] The IPCC is a scientific body. I also think you confuse objectivity/bias with scientific/political, or you seem to talk about something different than Smokey. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:11, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Your source for "The IPCC is a scientific body" is the IPCC itself. What's the policy on using a the topic of an article for a source? Do we rely on whitehouse.gov for information about The White House? --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The opening statement here makes no suggestions (uncomfortable or otherwise), it is a declaration of personal opinion. Smokey says the IPCC's "brief" is to "uphold the theory that CO2 is causing global warming", but without citing any kind of source. Stephan cites the actual brief, which says otherwise; that trumps the unsupported personal opinion. The accusation that the IPCC is biased (or that its own statement is not reliable) is WP:FRINGE, and per WP:WEIGHT does not belong in the lede. Finding sufficient reliable sources to pull that viewpoint out of fringe status is highlydoubtful, as that ground as been well trod, and has a diminishing trend; such an effort would certainly constitute WP:POVPUSHing.
And you all have been around long enough to know all that, so cool it. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:07, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? Are you actually saying that if I produce a reliable source, who is the author of a peer reviewed paper on climate change, who feels that the IPCC is biased, that would constitute POV-pushing? (I assume I'm not understanding you correctly, because giving all points of view on a controversy is not POV-pushing.) --Uncle Ed (talk) 22:51, 29 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I understand you, nor that you understand WP:NPOV and WP:FRINGE. One peer-reviewed paper does not, in general, make someone a RS, much less a significant voice. For comparison, the IPCC position has been endorsed by scores of academies of science. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:30, 29 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We cannot say that IPCC is a scientific body without an outside source saying so. I'm sure there are some. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the US EPA [1]. Then there are several papers making that claim: [2] [3] [4] [5], and more is easy to find. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:16, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You can do better than that. [1] and [4] just quote the IPCC charter; [5] says "generally accepted as the main, expert, scientific body on climate change issues", and shows bias in the name of the journal; and I can't read [2] and [3] as behind a paywall. As I said, I'm sure there are outside sources, but I'm not sure any of those are. If "scientific body" is referenced to a reliable source which really says that, I have no objection. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:26, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but the sources are plenty good. [1] and [4] use the same phrasing as the IPCC, but in the authors' voice. [5] is from a collection of scholarly papers published by OUP. Also see WP:PAYWALL. If you are in law school, your institution almost certainly can provide access. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:15, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Re Uncle Ed: Yes. Neutral point of view depends on the WP:WEIGHT of all sources. If there are a hundred (a thousand!) papers saying "white", and one paper that says "black", the positions are not equal, and presenting them as equal would be NON-neutral POV. It is not a matter of presenting all points of view, but of presenting them in proper importance or weight. To insist on giving any source more weight than it warrants is pov pushing.
For all the carping you might find that some narrow position or another of the IPCC is not exactly balanced to someone's personal satisfaction, there is no signficant pov (and I suspect not even a single reliable source) that the IPCC as a whole, or its work, is biased. Nor has anyone here presented any documentation of any "brief" to "uphold the theory that CO2 is causing global warming". ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 19:22, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More than a scientific body

The discussion above shows some confusion about the IPCC which I've tried to resolve by clarifying the lead. The IPCC is an intergovernmental scientific body, involving both scientists (and other experts where appropriate) and representatives of 120+ governments. The review procedure involves both, and summaries for policy makers are subject to line-by-line approval by all participating governments. Note that I've also worded the Nobel Prize bit to correspond more closely to the source, and have moved that to follow from the other plaudits rather than mixing it with the basic description of the IPCC at the start of the lead.
Weart describes it as being formed as "a new, fully independent group under the control of government representatives" and "neither a strictly scientific nor a strictly political body, but a unique hybrid. This met the divergent needs of a variety of groups, especially within the United States government, which was a prime stimulator for the action." There's more in Weart, and my aim is to improve sections of the article using his history as a basis. Work in progress. . . dave souza, talk 22:33, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good. "Weart" is, of course, Stephen Spencer Weart and his book is "The Discovery of Global Warming". I believe it has a good reputation, but be careful of not getting too wrapped up in any one source.
And the citations here are still wretched. I am almost ready to start hacking on them. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) 19:38, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

potential resource, new report

From Kampala meeting, per NHK ...

http://www.ipcc.ch/meetings/session34/doc01_p34_prov_agenda.pdf

99.112.212.242 (talk) 01:37, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

From Talk:Extreme weather ...
99.56.120.136 (talk) 00:24, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]


As I said before (but was anonymously deleted)
these reports are not about the IPCC. By the IPCC, yes, but they do a lot of reports, and unless someone is proposing to do a bibliography of all of the IPCC's reports there is yet to be shown any reason for featuring this one report. You are confusing news about unusual weather with the agency that sponsored the research that lead to the news. This article is about the agency, not unusual weather. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) 21:36, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Unusual weather redirects to Extreme weather. 99.35.12.139 (talk) 06:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So? What is your point? ~ J. Johnson (JJ) 22:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

(od) From What Happens When a Super Storm Strikes New York? by Douglas Fox November 18, 2011 4:00 PM Popular Mechanics, excerpt ...

UPDATE: Today, the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the organization that releases major reports every few years on the state of climate change science, released a new report specially focused on super storms and other extreme weather events. Heat waves will get longer and more intense, IPCC says, and the frequency of heavy precipitation events and other major storms will increase over the 21st century in many places. "It is virtually certain that increases in the frequency of warm daily temperature extremes and decreases in cold extremes will occur throughout the 21st century on a global scale," says a summary of the report.

03:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

IPCC citations

As part of IPCC citation work I have created a Talk:Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change/citation subpage that documents the canonical format (and other subpages with the AR specific details). Hopefully all that is clear, and will be satisfactory. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:09, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ken Caldirea resigns from AR5, criticizes outcomes of AR4

New Directions for the Intergovernmental Climate Panel By Andrew Revkin, NY Times, December 21, 2011

Kenneth Caldeira: "Can anybody point to any important positive outcomes resulting from the IPCC AR4 process? Is there reason to expect a greater positive impact from the IPCC AR5 process?

I am all for scientific reviews and assessments, and I think the multi-model comparisons reviewed by the IPCC have been especially useful. However, it is not clear how much additional benefit there is to having a huge bureaucratic scientific review effort under UN auspices..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tillman (talk • contribs) 00:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

.... Again, I think the IPCC has been extremely useful in the past, and I believe the IPCC could be extremely useful in the future. But, if the IPCC is to be extremely useful, it must re-invent itself, so that it efficiently supplies decision-makers with the most important and reliable scientific information while placing a minimum of additional burden on the scientific community.
(As an aside, I recently resigned as a lead author of an IPCC AR5 chapter simply because I felt I had more effective ways of using the limited amount of time that I have to engage in scientific activities. My resignation was made possible because I believe that the chapter team that I was part of was on the right track and doing an excellent job without my contribution. Had I had a scientific criticism of my chapter team, you can be assured that I would have stayed involved. So, my resignation was a vote of confidence in my scientific peers, not a critique. It is just not clear to me that, at this point, working on IPCC chapters is the most effective use of my time. Also, I do want to be careful not to pre-judge IPCC AR5. It may turn out to be a far more efficient and effective vehicle for scientific communication than I now anticipate.)
An important question is: How can the IPCC be made into a more efficient and effective vehicle for scientific communication? It would be good to have this discussion before the AR6 train leaves the station.
[Dec. 23, 11:08 p.m. | Updated | Caldeira, noting quite a bit of Web chatter about his withdrawal from leading the writing team for a report chapter, offers an expanded comment below.]
Call it naivete, but I was surprised when the last remnants of the climate-science denial team erupted with glee in the blogosphere at my remarks on the IPCC made on Dot Earth earlier this week. This shows that I may have been wrong about the effectiveness of the IPCC, as at least this marginalized faction thinks that the IPCC is an important and effective too for scientific communication -- important enough that they feel it is worth their time to try to weaken its influence.
Instead, I was looking for was to strengthen the IPCC, ......"
Thanks, Pete, we can rely on you to pass on gossip from the climate-science denial team blogosphere. . dave souza, talk 07:54, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, Dave. I imagine Andy Revkin and the NY Times would be a bit surprised to be labeled as part of the "climate-science denial team blogosphere" .... And Merry Christmas! Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 13:53, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Before you go, do you have any intention of cleaning up the mess on Ken Caldeira, the reason for his resignation having been made clear to you? — ThePowerofX 19:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now that you have raised the matter here, does that make Wikipedia part of the "climate-science denial team blogosphere"? And what is the point in raising the matter here in the first place? From what I read, Caldeira was criticising the IPCC's effectiveness in communicating the message, not the science it was based on. So what is your point? ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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