Talk:Meng Huo

The Nanman King Meng Huo

At the time of the Wu and Wei battles, Zhuge Liang decides to launch a full assault on the Nanman tribes. After heading south to the lands of China, the Shu startegist captures and releases the Nanman King Meng Huo 7 times to force him into surrender.

If the Meng Huo and his forces outnumbered the Shu forces, how is it that Meng Huo was caught 7 times. Due to the terrain that the Nanman people lived in the Shu army should have encounter some difficults while traveling through the land. If Zhuge Liang did capture Meng Huo 7 times, what, if any, methods did he go about rather than meet the Nanman in head on battle and if Meng Huo would serve the Shu forces, how long would time permit him to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanman QED

Meng Huo's depiction

I don't think that the picture from Dynasty Warriors needs to be there. Think about if someone like Socrates, who we don't know the look of, had a video game character on his Wikipedia page. Also, I doubt that Meng Huo had metal claws. I say the photo should be taken off this page. --Riction 08:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The picture and the over-lengthy section on his appearance in Dynasty Warriors makes the article look like a joke, if you ask me. 67.46.0.13 11:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC) (Not anonymous, firewall at my job won't let me stay logged in, user ID is Themill).

A joke? As opposed to another emotion you are attempting to invoke with that scribbled image at the top? The picture only cites the most modern reference to Meng Huo. If you have an image from the television series or something from another modern reference, then replace it. Those claws are weapons, larger versions of the "cat claw" used throughout history by many Eastern warriors and assassins. I don't see how modern references to historical individuals are a "joke," and I see that disdain for the video game medium is as alive and well as ever. I wonder if you'd rubbish the section if it was derived from a book or movie instead. Gamer Junkie 12:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Meng Huo.jpg

Image:Meng Huo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Meng Huo

According to Zhang Hua Lan's article, "Discussion on Meng Huo," Meng was only a fictional character invented by later historians. Modern historians like Huang Cheng Zhong also pointed out Zhang's view represents the majority of the academics. Note that the the word "Huo" (獲) means "captured" in Chinese.----EkmanLi (talk) 23:30, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Where can I find this article? Is it on the internet somewhere? Plunged (talk) 14:14, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Quote on Pei Songzi's view over Xi Zaochi

Huang Chengzhong uses Pei Songzhi's accusation against Xi Zaochi of anachronistically inserting quotations in the biography of Wang Ling in his article, Did Zhuge Liang really Capture Meng Huo Seven Times? (諸葛亮真的“七擒孟獲”嗎？). At first glance it's easy for people to perceive it as a "textual manipulation done to cast meng huo as fictional." However, after I read the whole article of Huang Chengzhong, I can only logically believe he adopts that quote because he wants to show Xi Zaochi as the first one(s) who "make up" the stories like the "7 times freed."("如此言之类，皆前史所不载，而犹出习氏。且制言法体不似于昔，疑悉凿齿所自造者也？")

Also, it should not be a "textual manipulation done to cast meng huo as fictional" at all, because Huang believes in the historicity of Meng Huo, and this fact has actually been pointed out in the main article before the quote.

EkmanLi (talk) 04:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

While I am not qualified to argue with an historian, I merely wanted to show that Pei Songzhi let the "seven times freed" story slide without additional comment. Huang Chengzhong may use that quote in Wang Ling's biography to cast doubt on Xi Zaochi's methodology, but since Pei never explained what he had mind when he said "things like this quote" (如此言之類), referring to the Wang Ling quote, we can't make the article imply that Pei had any doubts about the Meng Huo story. Also, I never said Huang was manipulating the texts. _dk (talk) 03:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I didn't specific anyone to be saying Huang manipulated the text (no offense, I just think people like me would have that feeling at first glance on his work), caz I was a bit confused. Alright, so who specifically did u say was "manipulating the text"?

Beijing Sci-Tech Report's edited Huang Chengzhong's research into an article (Huang is still the author, with another guy as the editor). Huang does mention Pei's view on Xi, and I already explained the reason. By the way, when I edited the "main article", I specially wrote Pei Songzhi had no comment on Meng Huo --> I never say Pei implied Meng Huo was not real (it's logically for ME to think others are a bit confused? If that's the case, then I apologize here)... On the contrary, Huang Chengzhong does imply and specially borrow Pei Songzhi's view to illustrate Xi Zaochi's fault, and his point can be arguable, why do u think you couldn't argue just because he is a historian?

EkmanLi (talk) 08:26, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not qualified to argue with an historian because I am not an historian, don't not have the credentials, and am not a proper expert (we're all just learning here, I assume he knows way more than I do). You're gonna have to help me out here, because I can't find in 蜀漢孟獲史實瑣談 anywhere where Huang takes Pei's quote in Wang Ling's bio and uses it to argue against Meng Huo's story, or maybe I just couldn't find the right version. I disagree that Huang was the author for the Sci-Tech report, since the article specifically thanked Huang for the material that the author referenced. ("本文主要資料來源於黃承宗先生發表在《四川彝學研究》上的《蜀漢孟獲史實瑣談》一文，特此致謝！"). Whoever I was referring to in that edit summary doesn't matter any more, now that the "textual manipulation" had been edited off. _dk (talk) 08:37, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

This is just like those of Zhu Ziyan's （朱子彥） articles. Editors (no matter where he comes from,) can edit the paper, and can change the name of the article actually, but the author is still the author.

And if you wanna get the original research paper, you may try "downloading it from PROPER sources", and I don't wanna get into trouble -- so you gonna find a source to download whatever u want. But there's also another way to get access to those Chinese History research papers if you live in Hong Kong or Taiwan, you can ask a friend who is still studying university to check them out for you. Hope my suggestions help (again, I didn't suggest any illegal way to get them). EkmanLi (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, the only reason I asked u the "textual manipulation" thing is only because I was curious, no offense. I just happened to check previous editionS, and I don't really see that and the "edit off" thing, so I just logically thought u might be saying Huang did it (again, sry if I was wrong).EkmanLi (talk) 09:15, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I was actually asking for an actual quote (and/or page number), heh. _dk (talk) 14:53, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

arr...that was the actual quote, how can it not be? Also, Beijing Sci-Tech Report published it in an online version, and if u wanna know the page number, then I can tell you it's page 1. But just to let you know the page number from the journal 《四川彝學研究》 of Huang's research will be different from that of the Beijing Sci-Tech Report's, and there may be other publishers, too (so, if you find other page number(s), it's normal). EkmanLi (talk) 01:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

There is a quote where Pei doubts Xi's methodology, but I don't see one where Huang uses Pei's quote to argue against Meng Huo's seven times freed story. _dk (talk) 05:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

You can go to Huang's research posted in the journal. But I consider separating Pei's and Huang's view on the issue may be better (as I personally consider Huang's point a bit arguable). Although I listed their views separately in the first place, you are welcome to link them or do any changes appropriate. EkmanLi (talk) 08:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)