Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

January 15

16 mm + 18 - 55 mm lenses

A brand camera is sold, in one of it's original packages, with a 16 mm and a 18 - 55 mm lens. What's the point of including this 16 mm lens, it's just a little bit shorter than the shortest span of the other lens, and it will make the camera more expensive. 88.9.215.240 (talk) 00:36, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I imagine the small lens is considerably smaller and lighter than the zoom lens, making it more portable for occasions that don't require the zoom lens. StuRat (talk) 00:40, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

What is the f-number of the 16 mm compared with the 18 – 55? A good 16mm 'prime lens' with a good f-number would be a useful addition to a zoom with lower f-numbers.--Aspro (talk) 01:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

It is Sony NEX5DB Alpha Compact System Camera - 16mm F2.8 and 18-55mm F3.5-5.6. So, yes, you get a lower f on the 16mm. 88.9.215.240 (talk) 02:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Prime lenses tend to be a bit sharper than zoom lens, which might be another reason for its inclusion. --Daniel 17:47, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm guessing that you're looking at a package like this one? The 16mm lens will be a bit 'faster' than the 18-55mm zoom when wide open. f/2.8 versus f/3.5 is two-thirds of an f-stop when wide open, which means about 60% more light getting to the sensor (and commensurately shorter exposure times) at maximum aperture. (The low f-number also means a shallower depth of field, which can be useful for certain types of photography.) Because the optics in the 16mm lens only have to work well at one focal length, it's likely to be somewhat sharper and suffer from less distortion than the zoom lens. (This a reasonable rule of thumb for comparing prime and zoom lenses at similar focal lengths; you should check lens-specific reviews if you want to be sure that it's true for any specific lens.)

On a camera with an APS-C-sized sensor, a 16mm prime lens is equivalent to about a 25mm lens on a 35mm film SLR, so it's a moderately wide-angle lens that could be used as a 'walking-around' lens under a lot of circumstances. The short, flat 'pancake lens' form factor makes the 16mm lens a lot shorter and lighter than the 18-55 zoom, so the camera becomes a lot lighter and skinnier – almost 'pocketable', for the NEX5DB – than when you have the zoom attached. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Last USAF pilot killed in air to air engagement?

Who was the last USAF or USN pilot killed in an air to air engagement? Specifically, the pilot must not have fallen victim to fratricide, or a ground to air attack. Reference would be greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.37.68 (talk) 02:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe Scott Speicher (Jan. 17, 1991)? The official report says he was downed by a surface-to-air missile, but others claim a MiG got him. (See his article for the conflicting references.) Clarityfiend (talk) 03:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Post–World War II air-to-air combat losses plus some extra hunting around about the one USN listed from the Persian Gulf war points to Scott Speicher being a potential candidate, though the exact cause of his crash (whether it was surface-to-air or air-to-air) seems still a bit murky, though there are potentially good reasons to think it was air-to-air. --Mr.98 (talk) 03:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

If not Speicher, then I think the previous one was from the Vietnam War: Lt. M.F. Haifley, from December 28, 1972. (His co-pilot was not killed in action but captured as a POW.) (See Aircraft losses of the Vietnam War.) --Mr.98 (talk) 04:50, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Both Speicher and Haifley were navy pilots, not air force though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.37.68 (talk) 14:33, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Weeelll you did allow for USN pilots, no? Anyway, I've linked to the articles I used to try and suss out this sort of information, you can probably do any remaining research with them myself. Look over the Vietnam article, find the latest air-to-airs, then figure out whether they were USAF, then figure out who it was. If there is none in Vietnam that fits the bill, use the other conflicts in the air-to-air combat losses article (there are a few in 1969-1970 over Eastern Europe). --Mr.98 (talk) 15:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Are there national anthems which are required to be sung by law? (as in, no instrumental versions are allowed)

This question came into my mind while listening to the Nepalese national anthem. All videos of it on YouTube (and even the .ogg file of it on our article) are vocal versions (incidentally, the exact same version), and I have not been able to find an instrumental version. Maybe other versions of it are rare, but is it possible that it must be sung? Are there anthems which by law can only have vocal versions? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

In contrast (to fail to answer the question in the worst possible way), the Spanish national anthem does not have any (official) words at all. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 10:14, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't want this to be construed as spam, but here is a link to a video on YouTube with an instrumental version of the Nepalese anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mKlpWHMLkk (Lorddaine usually has the best instrumental versions on YouTube). 80.122.178.68 (talk) 21:25, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

That's their old one, not their current one. 112.208.102.37 (talk) 21:27, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh. Well, then he probably hasn't found the new one in an instrumental version yet, which brings us back to the OP's question. 80.122.178.68 (talk) 21:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly and you only found one copy of the anthem (how many duplicates you found doesn't really matter), this doesn't really tell us anything about how common instrumental versions are. All it tells us is the Nepali national anthem is not very common, perhaps because it was only introduced in 2007 and Nepal is not particularly well known in a lot of the world (people may know them as one of the countries Everest is location in and the common climbing starting point, but that only translates to interest in the country itself loosely). Even in terms of sport, one area where you may expect the anthem, they aren't particularly known in any area. (Their current FIFA ranking is 153, they've never made it to any tournament involving Test cricket nations). Nil Einne (talk) 13:48, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Is the Costa Concordia the largest passenger ship ever to sink?

Regarding the Costa Concordia disaster, this article says the, "Costa Concordia is the largest ship ever to sink," but that's not strictly true counting supertankers. However [1] shows that it is certainly the largest passenger ship to ever sink or be destroyed in service, but it's not a WP:RS. Is there a more reliable source? Selery (talk) 15:35, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Define "largest". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:12, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

By gross weight tonnage or length, or both, I believe, in this case. Selery (talk) 20:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Gross tonnage is volume, not weight. CC was the largest by GT, which is not displacement. RMS Queen Elizabeth (sunk in 1972) displaced more but was smaller, having less GT. (To complicate matters, QE was measured in GRT, CC in GT, but the two measures are similar.) GRT and, after 1969, GT, are the measures of size for passenger ships, so yes, CC is the largest one ever lost. QE was the largest passenger ship ever built until 1996, and no larger ship built since then has been lost, until Concordia. 174.253.140.22

Also note that the CC hasn't actually sunk yet, it only ran aground. It may yet sink, if it gets washed off the reef into deep enough water for it to disappear below the waves. StuRat (talk) 18:23, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

After arguing about this for something like 30 kilobytes, the Editing Community has settled on "partially sunk". Sigh. Selery (talk) 20:49, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

If the only thing keeping it up is the fact that the water isn't deep enough for it to fully submerge, I'd call it "sunk". --Carnildo (talk) 03:17, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

By that definition many ships in dry dock are also sunk. StuRat (talk) 07:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Ieager WVa connection to YeagerKy

Mcdowell County West Virginia and Pike County Kentucky seem to have several social, geographic and historical connections. Has someone articled their relationship. I specifically wondered about the railroad connection and the building of the King Coal Highway. Would town residents have taken the name Ieager with them to a new location. There is also a town named Perryville that included residents from that area who came in from the rails maybe because the namne was familiar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BetEthMabJeanDorie (talk • contribs) 18:28, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

renting a room in a home

If you rent one or more rooms in a home, can a case be made for "common law marriage" if you live there long enough? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.112.103 (talk) 20:41, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Common law marriage says "Cohabitation alone does not create a common-law marriage; the couple must hold themselves out to the world as spouses"; and the cohabitation article defines it as "an arrangement where two people who are not married live together in an intimate relationship" -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 20:48, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec)Like most legal issues, it depends entirely on the jurisdiction. The article common-law marriage points out that for most jusrisdictions "Cohabitation alone does not create a common-law marriage; the couple must hold themselves out to the world as spouses" and "There must be mutual consent of the parties to the relationship constituting a marriage". Common-law marriage in the United States has a little bit finer breakdown of the different requirements between different states, some of which require presenting themselves to the public as husband and wife, and/or consummation (the term cohabitation is frequently used, but may, depending on jurisdiction, mean something more than just "living in the same house" - you'd have to check local laws). - If you're asking for more than just academic interest, you need to seek out someone who knows the laws in your area - Wikipedia does not give out legal advice. -- 71.35.113.131 (talk) 21:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I suppose some married couples don't sleep in the same room. But in such cases it would be hard to prove a common-law marriage. --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

A few weeks ago I watched one of those "dole cheats" TV programmes on British daytime TV (I was at the gym, honest). One case involved a guy who was a lodger at the home of some rich bird (I think she may actually have been a Lady). He was claiming benefits. But the benefit fuzz thought that he wasn't a lodger at all, but a bidie-in. Eventually they found evidence that the pair of them were buying properties together, but then they transferred the title just to her, so he had no assets. By showing the pair pooled their finances in a way akin to a couple, the DHSS could say they were common-law wed, that he'd lied on the benefits claim, and thus there was fraud afoot. 87.113.13.28 (talk) 00:54, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

I've heard of the flip side of this, from someone I knew in Australia (and believe I can trust). She was flatting with two people in a two bedroom house, and Social Security concluded she had to be in a relationship with one or the other, so they would dock about a third of her allowance. I think one of the flatmates was a male relative, and the other was a female in a relationship with someone else (or something like that). She actually slept on the couch, but she ended up having to tell them she was sleeping with both the flatmates, and that apparently worked - she couldn't be tied to either one. IBE (talk) 01:31, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

The OP asks "can a case be made". One interpretation of that is, "If I give money to a lawyer, will s/he attempt to find some legal precedent on which we can argue this case in court." The answer to that is almost certainly yes: if that is how you want to spend your money, there is bound to be a lawyer happy to take it from you. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

So if you share rent with someone, the government can just assume you to be married should they want? I barely speak to my current flatmates, I hope they're not deducting money from me for being here. 148.197.81.179 (talk) 09:56, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

"Hold themselves out to the world as spouses" is part of the description in every example I've heard. I suppose you could live somewhere "odd"... Also... quite a few jurisdictions have abolished common law marriages. Shadowjams (talk) 07:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

It sounds like one of the problems in the case IBE mentions is that there were only 2 beds but 3 people, not simply a case of sharing a flat. It's still a bit surprising, it isn't unheard of for students (general of the same sex) to share rooms in NZ to save cost [2]. Similar, I've heard of students with sleeping on coach and similar arrangements before. Nil Einne (talk) 18:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

January 16

Military servicemen photographs

Going through the National World War II museum today generated a few questions for me. So here's the first...

There were many exhibits of war relics which had a description of what the item was, who personally used it, etc. Next to each description was a photo of the man who the item belonged to. They were all in class A uniform and posed in the same way. These are also basically the same as the photos we have here of service members. When would these photos be taken? Does the US military get recruits/draftees (historically on that last one since we're not going through a draft right now) to throw their class A uniforms on for picture day like in grade school and then keep these on file for identification purposes? And then would the men be given a chance to have one of those photos sent home to their family? We had a picture of this nature of my brother on our mantle growing up (he's retired and I'd ask him but I'm looking not just for his experience but how this was done during war time as well). Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 00:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Anecdotal. During Army basic training in the 1980s, after we had our uniform measurements, we were taken to a photo studio, mock tops of the correct size were given to each trainee, and their photos taken. Very common sizes had more than 1, but 100 trainees were finished in about an hour. A cycle book and packages were available, and proofs were given. Dru of Id (talk) 22:14, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

What is a "cycle book?" You pose on a bike? Edison (talk) 14:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Erp, no. Cadre refer to each group as a cycle, but lasting a number of week. 'Year books' for much less than a year. Delivery near graduation. Dru of Id (talk) 19:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Scar on Michelle Obama's hand

Michelle Obama has a scar on her left hand, near the wrist. How did she get it?

• Picture one
• Picture two

— O'Dea (talk) 08:53, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Martin Luther King Day "observed"

My calendar entry for today reads "Martin Luther King, Jr. Day (observed)". Why do they put in that last word? I see from the article that there has been some reluctance to observe the holiday, that it is now a paid holiday for state employees but that many private companies do not observe it. So when the calendar company includes that last word, are they just referring to the day's observance among state employers? Or are they making some kind of political point that it is not always observed but that it should be? --Viennese Waltz 10:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

The article seems pretty clear: Martin Luther King, Jr. was born on January 15th, but the public holiday falls (is "observed") on the third Monday of January, whatever date that may be. --Xuxl (talk) 11:13, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that's fairly common wording. Sometimes public holidays (and this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) must be celebrated on the day, whether it's a weekend or whatever in which case most workers miss the public holiday, with others you get a holiday in lieu. For example my calendar (printed in USA FWIW) has "New Year's Day" on Jan 1 which was a Sunday, and then "New Year's Day (observed)" printed on Jan 2 (Mon), meaning that's when you'll get the public holiday. The MLK one two weeks later is exactly the same. --jjron (talk) 11:44, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Similarly, Washington's Birthday is Feb 22, but is "observed" (and popularly but incorrectly called "President's Day") on the Monday preceding the 22nd. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

The article you link says "commonly known as 'Presidents Day'". I don't see it says anywhere that this is "incorrect". --ColinFine (talk) 17:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, Memorial Day was once traditionally held on May 30, but is now "observed" on the last Monday in May. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:31, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

The last year MLK Day actually fell on the 15th was in 2007. The next year will be 2018. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

I thought that it was called "President's Day" because it combined the holdiays for Lincoln's (Feb 12) and Washington's (Feb 22) brithday. I remember there used to be two holdiays for the two birthdays and now there is just the one. RudolfRed (talk) 19:51, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Lincoln's Birthday was not a national holiday. Washington's was. In fact, Lincoln's birthday is still observed in the states that used to do so before "President's Day" came along, and it's still on the 12th. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:14, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation RudolfRed (talk) 23:22, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

http://www.opm.gov/operating_status_schedules/fedhol/2012.asp "This holiday is designated as "Washington's Birthday" in section 6103(a) of title 5 of the United States Code, which is the law that specifies holidays for Federal employees. Though other institutions such as state and local governments and private businesses may use other names, it is our policy to always refer to holidays by the names designated in the law." --Nricardo (talk) 01:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

When some major holidays fall on a Saturday or Sunday, then the Friday before or the Monday after is the holiday "observed", the day when certain businesses close. The calendar will show both days, as in Jjron's example -- Sunday Jan 1: New Year's Day, Monday Jan 2: New Year's Day (Observed). However, Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is always the third Monday in January, so it never needs a secondary "observed" day. I think this may be the question Viennese Waltz was asking: Why did the calendar include the word "observed" when Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is always on Monday? I agree with Xuxl, it's probably used to mean King's birthday observed. If the calendar had shown both "Sunday Jan 15: Martin Luther King, Jr.'s Birthday" and "Monday Jan 16: Martin Luther King, Jr.'s Birthday (Observed)", then it would better fit into the pattern. --Bavi H (talk) 02:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The "first business day after" convention is quite common for many legal deadlines. It depends on the jurisdiction, and it only applies to longer (roughly over 2 weeks) time-frames, but often when the deadline technically falls on a holiday or a Sunday/Saturday, the next business day is the "deadline." Of course always check the details, certainly don't rely on this as a rule of thumb, but it's a common government convention. Shadowjams (talk) 07:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Banks (bless them) don't do that. Not in my experience. They will specify that your mortage or whatever is due "no later than the 13th day of each month"; if the 13th falls on a weekend and for some reason you can't pay online, you can always pay early - in their opinion. I've been caught by this when I made a payment on the Monday that was actually due on the weekend, only to be told my payment was late and it would attract a fee. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 07:42, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Bavi H, while I don't pretend to be an expert on US public holidays, as I originally said my calendar made and printed in the US does include the MLK info in exactly the same pattern as the New Year one, i.e., the day printed on the Sunday, and the day (observed) on the Monday. --jjron (talk) 13:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Calendar makers do things the way they feel like. One of my calendars has the 1st as New Year's Day, nothing shown on the 2nd, the 15th as MLK Birthday (Traditional) and the 16th as MLK Birthday (Observed). The other has the 1st as New Year's Day, the 2nd as New Year's Day Observed, nothing on the 15th, and the 16th as MLK Birthday Observed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:16, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but perhaps a bit pedantic to claim there's a difference between the Day and the birthday. MLKJ Day is by definition always on a Monday, and thus can never be on a Sunday. If your calendar says MLKJ Day is on a Sunday, I would suggest that it is technically wrong. Realistically, we know it'd be referring to King's birthday, it'd just be a minor annoyance for the pedant in me if a non-Monday Jan 15 is labeled as the Day instead of the birthday. --Bavi H (talk) 03:27, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Translation into English

Okay, this might just be one of those few questions that goes unanswered in the ref desk, but I might as well try. I uploaded a friend's photo on Facebook, and tagged her, so one of her friends (from her state, Meghalaya, India) commented under it in Khasi. I don't know Khasi, and neither the commenter, nor my friend are willing to tell me what it means, but since it's been made in a very public portal, under one of my own uploaded pics, I feel I have a right to know. So here's the comment, and I'm hoping somebody here can decode it :"Lol meh dang pynkhih lbong hi? ". (PS, I guess "Lol" here is the standard "laugh out loud"). 117.227.115.215 (talk) 15:51, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

You probably will get better results if you have this posted at the Language Desk rather than here. Consider also putting the name of the language (Khasi) into the header. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

According to this online dictionary it (very) roughly translates to: burn just shake thigh its. Does that make any sense with the context of the picture? TheGrimme (talk) 18:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Couldn't "meh" be internet slang rather than Khasi? Since lbong=thigh is the most unambiguous word there, I'd guess it means something like "Shake those thighs" or (via metonymy) "shake that ass", which would both be very common things to write about photos. --Colapeninsula (talk) 20:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, idiomatically, "burn" is actually "hot" (as in physically attractive), so "That's hot - shake that ass!"? Sounds like a very plausible comment on a Facebook photo. ("meh" being the English slang expression of disinterest doesn't seem to fit the rest of it.) --Tango (talk) 00:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I thought that said 'bum'. I had to put it into a text editor to see it properly. Also, it looks like a question, so I would put it as 'Lol - hot - shaking those thighs?' Obviously something to do with dancing. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Just in case anyone is interested, the photo in question is this: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2181860245869&l=b5b298a899 117.227.46.61 (talk) 08:47, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Train operator for LACMTA

How do I become a train operator for the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority? I'm interested in this career because I'm a transit rider and have a interest in participating in the (public sector) transit industry. I think this career is easy to me because they use a joystick to drive the rail vehicle. Are they regulated by the DMV or the Federal Railroad Administration. Do they get Railroad Retirement Board benefits like the freight railroads? What is the salary of a train operator? WJetChao (talk) 23:05, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Here's a link to the MTA benefits offered. Looks like you get a 401K and a pension. I don't know if that is railroad pension or CalPERS. And here is the job description for train operator. If you don't have any experience, you might qualify for the trainee program. RudolfRed (talk) 23:33, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

If you go to the LACMTA website and click through About Us...Metro Careers, you can find job descriptions and qualifications. Among other things, a full-time train operator requires a Class C California driver's license, 1 year of experience as a bus driver, a good driving record for the last 5 years, and be at least 21 years of age: [3]. The position is unionized; the pay grade is U31—I don't know what that translates to in dollars. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:32, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

January 17

career guidance

sir/mam, i would like to know what are the better options to be opted after btech in ece branch?```` and how for it will favour me after my opting it```` actually i would like to go for job in us its my dream , so do suggest me in better way```` hope you would suggest me soon and help me out and make it easier to select better career soon ,hoping to get your reply soon thanking you, barbie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barbiedollgoud (talk • contribs) 16:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You're studying for a Bachelor of Technology in Electrical and computer engineering? Assuming you want to remain in that field, you could either pursue postgraduate study or get a job. But you haven't given any indication of what sort of job you would like or what field you're interested in studying or working in. It will also matter how well you do in your current degree, whether you can afford postgraduate study, where you live, and how good your English is. Assuming you're not in the USA, You will be unlikely to get a job in the USA without special skills, meaning postgraduate study or relevant work experience. You could try contacting larger companies and colleges/universities to get an idea of what they look for. --Colapeninsula (talk) 16:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

'Top Gear' style challenges/races

Resolved

 – Wikipedia is not a forum. --McDoobAU93 18:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello all - if you're familiar with the sort of races & challenges they do on Top Gear I was wondering what sort of things you would like to watch/think would be fun to try - there's the obvious (car vs train over 5 hour+journey, one point to another only in hours of daylight/night) was wondering if people could suggest some? Preferable European locations, and realistic (eg watch sunset in Bordeaux, then sunrise at Nice 8 hours later is realistic, car vs plane Perth to Canberra is not). Put your thinking caps & imaginations on! :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.230.34 (talk) 17:50, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

While I love Top Gear and its challenges, this is not the place to discuss it. --McDoobAU93 18:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

sopa

Please help me understand. You are in FAVOR of piracy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.158.171.21 (talk) 18:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

If you click the "Learn More" button in the banner, you will find a clear explanation of why Wikipedia/Wikimedia is opposed to the bills. --LarryMac | Talk 18:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is certainly not in favour of piracy, quite the opposite. The reason for opposing SOPA is that SOPA will probably do more than stop piracy, it will stop fully legitimate uses of the Internet as well. It could also create a system where parties could accuse each other because of personal interests, not because of genuine concern, thereby abusing the entire idea. This is analogous to the "Teosto tax" proposed by the current Finnish Minister of Culture: all digital storage media would carry a tax to compensate for piracy, even though the vast majority of users won't have anything to do with piracy, and will instead be using the media to store their own creations. In short, SOPA has the right idea, but the implementation is horribly, horribly wrong. IANAL, so I won't go about this any more, so instead see LarryMac's reply above for further explanation. JIP | Talk 19:47, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

As an addendum, I hate this kind of "either you're with us or you're against us" argument. Any criticism to the implementation of an idea (not the idea itself) is understood as opposing the entire idea and its intent right from the start. JIP | Talk 19:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Of course, that goes for both the legislation, but also Wikipedia's response to it. "What, you don't think that Wikipedia should refrain from politics? Do you want the U.S. to become like Nineteen Eighty-Four?" Buddy431 (talk) 22:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Um, I don't think that's what "Wikipedia" is saying, at all. It's saying, "this legislation is very flawed and will dramatically affect Wikipedia's ability to function." I don't think that's being hyperbolic. --Mr.98 (talk) 23:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I also hate the "if you are with us, do everything that we want from you". Anyway, many people see it as a extreme measure against piracy, that could be used also against other sites. 88.9.108.154 (talk) 00:39, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

The anti-piracy laws seem to be taking the same approach as laws against petty theft in England took a couple centuries back, where they kept raising the punishments, since "the current punishments must be insufficient, if theft continues to exist". They escalated to hangings for petty theft, until eventually reason prevailed. In other words, "the cure was worse than the disease". As far as piracy law escalation goes, we are already up to a quarter of a million dollar fine and 5 years in prison, for one instance of copying something illegally for your own use. Many murderers get off with less punishment. A certain amount of theft will always exist, and, at some level, we just need to live with it. StuRat (talk) 08:18, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Shaving: razor blades or shaving machine

to compare costs, I would like to know how often you need to replace parts in a shaving machine. 80.58.205.34 (talk) 18:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's only one data point, but I've been using my battery-powered Philishave for over 35 years and it's never needed a repair (though the blades of the beard trimmer have gone blunt). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.252 (talk) 19:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

How often do you find that you need to shave your Phillis? Dismas|^(talk) 22:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it's a case of planned obsolescence, which affects new products, but not your Philishave of the 70s, but I believe you have to replace the foil and cutter or the shaving heads every couple of years, and they cost a substantial amount (50% maybe). 88.9.214.30 (talk) 21:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I have always found the safety razor (a real one with a double edge replacable blade, not that disposable/ cartridge junk) to be the most economical way to shave, and it cuts a lot closed than any electric shaver I've ever used. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:18, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I use disposable razors, and they also give a far closer shave than any electric razor (either the foil type or blade type). On the other hand, it's virtually impossible to cut yourself with an intact electric razor (although I did manage it with one that had a damaged foil). So, comparing costs doesn't seem very relevant, to me, compared with these factors. StuRat (talk) 08:12, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Grow a beard.--85.211.142.228 (talk) 07:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Seconded. I haven't shaved since 1995, and apparently everyone thinks I'm simply wonderful. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 07:57, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Aren't you annoyed by all the elves and reindeer following you around ? StuRat (talk) 23:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, me too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.142.228 (talk) 12:58, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Map of the Boundaries for the City of Los Angeles, California

This is all I could find. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:34, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I am trying to find specific information that will tell me definitively the boundaries for the City of Los Angeles. The city directed me to a website that doesn't have a map that includes street names or numbers. If I have to pay a tax for revenue earned in the City how do I know what to include? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikijane07 (talk • contribs) 19:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Try the census bureau at [4]. Look for "reference maps." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Google Earth has a city boundary layer under "More"->"US Government". It looks quite detailed for the LA area. Pfly (talk) 04:50, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

puma ethnic groups

I am wondering. Is there a site where it talks about the difference between Black, White, South Asian, Arab, Asians and Latinas when it comes to being a Puma (age 30-39) like their body figure, facial appearances and feet and health issues? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.20.237 (talk) 20:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

If you really mean Puma concolor, then first of all I recommend you call it a mountain lion, which is the best of its many names, and secondly I don't think many of them live to be thirty and I never heard of them having "ethnic groups" per se. There is another of the species' many names that might fit better with your question, but it isn't puma. --Trovatore (talk) 22:35, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Pima people? Bus stop (talk) 22:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. Now Johnny Cash's song Ira Hayes is going to be playing in my head all day. --Trovatore (talk) 22:39, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Er, that's 'Puma' as a slang term, I think: [5] AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The usual word for that sense is cougar. At least, assuming your link says what I predict it does (I haven't checked). --Trovatore (talk) 22:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't be the only one who finds this question extremely creepy. Go out and shop for old melons if you want, but do your own legwork dude. Each woman is different, that's what's so awesome about them. Trying to go by race or ethnicity os a foolish idea. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

international postage cost distribution

When a person in the US puts international postage on a piece of mail and sends it...does the foreign country the mail is delivered in receive compensation for delivery? Is there reciprocity in the international postage "world"? ie: I live in Germany and put a .75 euro stamp on my USA bound letter. I pay Germany post for that stamp. Does the US Postal service receive any payment from Germany for getting that letter to the addressed?

How does this system work?

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely, Eric Sams — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.143.211.217 (talk) 21:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

See this Slate article and our article Universal Postal Union; postal authorities in different countries pay each other "terminal dues" to cover the cost of delivery in the destination country. This takes account of the balance of mail between pairs of countries, so if the USA sends more mail to Germany the US postal service will pay the German mail company, or vice versa. --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

how do I keep reading wikipedia in 8 hours? I need it to study for some very important exams

Wikipedia happens to be exceptionally useful, at least for a launchpad to other concepts which I can then find out more in depth. I find this irresponsible of the project. I'm all for activism, but it's shutting down at this critical moment? Why?? I'm going to fail. 137.54.17.9 (talk) 21:52, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I was in the hospital and I got an extension and now you're going to kill my life 137.54.17.9 (talk) 21:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Which exam is it that is so dependant of your usage of Wikipedia? Also, there is such a thing as libraries you know (although I run the risk of sounding hopelessly antiquated and outdated by even mentioning such cumbersome and analogue institutions). --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Go to any pages you might find useful, and pick File + Save Page As (that's in Firefox, it might be a little different in other browsers). This will allow you to make copies of any web pages you find useful, which you can then read at your leisure. StuRat (talk) 22:07, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm still reading, I don't know which concepts I need in 8 hours. How can I access the project? Libraries are slow. I have three projects due tomorrow. 137.54.17.9 (talk) 22:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

At the risk of sounding like your mother... Maybe you shouldn't have procrastinated so much then. Dismas|^(talk) 22:13, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

As the instructor of a project management class once said to us, "You can't 'should have done' (or 'shouldn't have done') anything. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:09, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I was warded in a psychiatric hospital for a long while, and I was granted extensions. But I really need the project, or else I'm afraid my future will end and I will have to go kill myself. 137.54.17.9 (talk) 22:15, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Go for a Wikipedia mirror. 88.9.214.30 (talk) 22:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

They are poorly-maintained and not up to date (I need up to date info on various techniques and concepts) you have no idea how important this is to me. 137.54.17.9 (talk) 22:18, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Do a Google search for the term, and look at the cached version. --Trovatore (talk) 22:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, there's a pretty good chance the mobile interface will still be open for reading. No need to do anything drastic, okay? Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 22:30, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering about the mobile site. Didn't want to say anything in case it hadn't yet occured to the foundation and didn't want to give them ideas ;-) Incidentally, something else just occured to me. Hopefully it occured to the foundation too, as I'm sure it occured to others. Nil Einne (talk) 22:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

So anyway, were there many people trying to vandalise just before the databased was locked? (Yes I know stewards and staff could edit anyway.) Nil Einne (talk) 05:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Download the database and use one of the offline readers linked to on that page. --Mr.98 (talk) 23:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Presuming you're getting a full recent dump, considering the size of the file (~8GB), you may want to use torrents in case the foundation site hosting the dump becomes unavailablemakes the dumps unavailable and you haven't finished. You can of course switch between the download and torrents or use both, if you know what you're doing and you're getting the same file (and you have the right tools). Nil Einne (talk) 23:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

How many 1.44 meg floppy disks would it take to download Wikipedia? Alternately, is there a list of the most important and useful 100,000 articles, excluding the vanispamcruftisements which constitute most of the articles? Edison (talk) 00:05, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Who uses 1.44MB floppy disks? Even my grandma doesn't use those anymore. As for the "most important," there is the Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download project which was supposed to identify the core articles so they could be distributed offline. However it looks pretty out of date at this point. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:29, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Um, you do realize that almost all Wiki articles are based from other sources? Trust me, you can live without Wikipedia for 24 hours. Besides, no teacher I know of accepts Wikipedia as a reliable source to do homework off of.70.29.250.165 (talk) 00:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Remember that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. So don't feel too bad if you fail because you couldn't access it, most likely this incident will teach you how to seek information all on your own, and this knowledge will certainly be a net benefit for you in the future. Most Wikipedians would agree with you there, after all we don't make up the information we add, it all comes from external sources, and learning how to find those sources for yourself will probably be a lot more useful than if you just picked it off of here. --Saddhiyama (talk) 00:40, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

You're being silly. I have published undergraduate research in real life. Wikipedia is sparknotes for science, that's all. And I need updated sparknotes. 137.54.31.77 (talk) 02:15, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

If anyone is being silly it is you. You have to do research for important exams but you don't know what subjects you need to study? And you've been locked up in the nuthouse and you're going to kill yourself if WP is offline? If you are relly that distraught you need to call 911 and report that you are experiencing a severe psychiatric emergency and need immediate help. If you aren't really that upset then you are just trolling here and I'll have to ask you to stop. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:32, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

The next time this 501(3)(c) tax exempt charity chooses to shut down for a while in a grandstanding political effort or publicity stunt to influence legislation, if the same method is used, Method 1 to access articles would be to go to your browser's settings and turn off Java scripts. Method 2 would be to press "Escape" as soon as the desired page is displayed, before the blackout banner obscures the page. Method 3 would be to add "?banner=none" at the end of the URL for the desired page. Method 4 would be to press "printscreen " as soon as the page appears, then view it with Photoshop. Method 5 would be to Google Wikipedia as well as the topic of interest, then click on the cached version of Wikipedia. Method 6 would be to use the mobile version of Wikipedia, which was not blanked at all. Method 7 would be to go the the "schools" version of Wikipedia, circa 2008, which has a portion of the encyclopedia free of vandalism, for little schoolchildren to use. I wasted some time today looking at Wikipedia in these ways. (The Editor usually known as Edison). BnBH (talk) 05:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Well the foundation already told you about 2 of those methods before the blackout [6]. Also you missed disabling stylesheets which was mentioned in the computing desk a while ago Nil Einne (talk) 05:28, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

January 19

Reference Desk In Other Languages

Which other languages have Reference Desks? I know the Japanese Wikipedia doesn't. I'm not so much bothered about the blackout later on, as I'll just pop over there if I need to look something up, but I will miss the RefDesks if I need to ask something. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:13, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

German has one unified RefDesk: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Auskunft . --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 01:58, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Aha, excellent! That will do me! KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 02:04, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

See the intewikis at WP:RD and WP:RDL. And don't forget that the blackout won't last forever, Wikipedia resumes regular work just 24 hours after it starts. --Theurgist (talk) 03:03, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

It also seems likely that the "mobile" version is not in fact going to be blacked out, so smartphones and tablet computers will still be able to edit. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:37, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't be so sure. Selery (talk) 04:27, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

The foundation had already mentioned the mobile site was supposed to be available and since Javascript was used, you can just disable Javascript (or use something like Noscript), see [7]. Both of these did work, as did disabling stylesheets (as speculated at computing). Nil Einne (talk) 05:13, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

what's his name?

From the article Katyn massacre: Those who died at Katyn included an admiral, two generals, 24 colonels, 79 lieutenant colonels, 258 majors, 654 captains, 17 naval captains, 3,420 NCOs, seven chaplains, three landowners, a prince, 43 officials, 85 privates, 131 refugees, 20 university professors, 300 physicians; several hundred lawyers, engineers, and teachers; and more than 100 writers and journalists as well as about 200 pilots. Does anybody know the name of that prince?-Meerkatakreem (talk) 03:52, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

It's sourced to The Katyn Controversy: Stalin's Killing Field by Benjamin B. Fischer here at Polish prisoners-of-war in the Soviet Union after 1939, but doesn't name him. None of the people named at Category:Katyn massacre are him, and none are sourced to lists, just individual verification references, or not at all. Dru of Id (talk) 04:37, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Note that the url moved. Dru of Id (talk) 04:38, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

[[Category:1940 deaths]] list 6 in article titles, none correct (1,968 listed). And I see we're out of time... Thursday, then? Dru of Id (talk) 04:57, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Not identified as such here, and everything I looked at elsewhere online just rearranges the same list. Sorry. Dru of Id (talk) 06:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't find any evidence of a prince having been killed in any of the many books on the topic available through Google Books. This one specifically mentions that two Princes, Janusz Radziwiłł and Jan Lubomirski were placed in an alternative prison because of their high social standing, and were later released. Warofdreams talk 21:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't also find the real identity of this prince. Thanks dru and WOD for the effort.-Meerkatakreem (talk) 12:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Polish Wikipedia article about the Katyn massacre names one admiral and 11 generals, but fails to mention any princes. There are also lists of victims here, here, and here, in Polish; I did a quick text search, and, as far as I can tell, there are no princes there either.

I think I should clarify what the word "prince" would mean in this context. It does not mean "heir to the throne". Poland ceased to be a kingdom in 1795. However, a large number of noble families remained, and some of the most prominent families were granted the right to call themselves "princes". Many of them remember their titles to the present day. The number of princely families was and still is quite substantial - there are around 30 extant princely houses. Some are still prominent (for example, Prince Stanisław Albrecht Radziwiłł was married to the younger sister of the wife of John F. Kennedy), but others have completely faded into obscurity.--Itinerant1 (talk) 23:35, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

That's very informative Itinerant. Thank you. That explains then why it's hard to find the identity of the prince mentioned in our Katyn massacre article.-Meerkatakreem (talk) 03:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Pressure v Weight

What seems like a hundred years ago my then teacher could not answer my question, "what is the difference between pressure and weight?". I never got an answer, can anyone enlighten me before I die please?--85.211.142.228 (talk) 08:43, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Just look at the units to understand. I will use US measures, but the same would apply in metric. Weight is measured in pounds, while pressure is in pounds per square inch. That is, weight has no area associated with it, while pressure does. If you put a 100 pound weight on a 10 square inch stand, it will exert 10 pounds per square inch (PSI) on it, while the same weight on a 1 square inch stand will exert 100 PSI. StuRat (talk) 08:53, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

That seems like a very good answer Sturat. I didn't know, but feel slightly more clever now. I am not the OP, but thanks --Lgriot (talk) 09:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, what a fast answer, I can die in peace now! Thanks--85.211.142.228 (talk) 09:45, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles which define pressure and weight, and for good measure mass.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:35, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. I will mark this question resolved. StuRat (talk) 04:25, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Resolved

Help with google search parameter for type of light

I need a particular type of light fixture but my Google foo is not working to find what I'm after because I don't really know what they are called. This is what I need: I have a wooden post in my front yard where the house number is affixed and where the light fixture is affixed atop it. This is out on the lawn next to the path leading to the house. It has electrical wires running up through the post but the old iron light fixture at the top is all rusted and no longer works, though the electricity is fine. The searches I have tried keep finding lights that mount on the wall, that is they are side mounting, that would not work on a post.--108.14.197.46 (talk) 15:44, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

A search for outdoor post light turns up a variety of suppliers that may have what you need. Deor (talk) 16:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Is it a Lamppost?Quinn ^➳WINDY 16:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

German streetlight at night.

Try "post mount light fixture" or "pole mount light fixture" without the quotes. RudolfRed (talk) 16:43, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I wanted to make sure and come back and not just leave you writing in the void with no response. Your suggestions worked great! I have ordered a lamp fixture. Thank you all very much--really greatly appreciated.--108.14.197.46 (talk) 16:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

saving a human

can u save a human if he is shot and dying , by preserving the body from dying at the most lowest temperatures?? plz help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oronos (talk • contribs) 15:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

At this point, cryopreservation at the level of a human body (or even a substantial organ) would be uniformly fatal; the term "corpsicle" covers this concept. However, therapeutic hypothermia is an emerging treatment for some limited cases involving low blood flow. — Lomn 15:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

My answer would be a big, fat maybe --Dweller (talk) 15:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances, human brain is considered irreversibly destroyed after five minutes without blood circulation. Cooling the brain by 10 degrees ºC before the heart is stopped allows to extend this period to about an hour. (Some brain damage still occurs, but it's considered mild enough that this is routinely used during open heart surgeries.) Going to lower temperatures will extend the survival time even further, to a few hours, but with considerable side effects.

The idea of cryopreservation/cryonics is to find a way to keep the body frozen indefinitely. To achieve that, the body has to be cooled well below freezing (typically, to the temperature of liquid nitrogen), doing that is quite tricky, and we don't yet know how to thaw the body once it's been frozen.--Itinerant1 (talk) 06:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The problem isn't with the thawing, but with the freezing. Ice crystals grow within the cells during freezing, which destroys them. There's no way to bring anybody back from that. StuRat (talk) 06:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

And those ice crystals have a larger volume than liquid water (or anything that's mainly water), and they burst through things. HiLo48 (talk) 06:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Right, and the cell wall could probably manage to stretch 10% to accommodate the increase in volume, except, of course, that the cell wall is frozen first. StuRat (talk) 06:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

That is a common misconception. Modern cryonics techniques involve pumping the body with cryoprotectants before freezing. That prevents the formation of ice crystals, but makes it problematic to thaw the patient: for example, one common cryoprotectant is ethylene glycol a.k.a. antifreeze, and freezing the patient might involve saturating the body with 10 kg of ethylene glycol, whereas a regular live human would likely kick the bucket after accidentally drinking just 100 g of the substance.--Itinerant1 (talk) 07:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

In the context of this question, where the patient is still alive, it's obviously not possible to pump out their blood and fill them with antifreeze, as that would kill them. So, then we're stuck with the problem I stated. StuRat (talk) 19:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, for the purposes of this question, it is neither necessary nor possible to cool the patient to the temperature of liquid nitrogen. If you need to save someone who was shot, and his heart stops before you could get him to the emergency room, you can buy an hour or two by submerging him in a bathtub with ice water. But it needs to be done very quickly.--Itinerant1 (talk) 21:40, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The OP said "the most lowest temperatures", which I took to mean well below freezing. StuRat (talk) 05:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Car rental in China

I read a few years ago that self-drive rental cars in China were only available to foreign tourists in a few major cities (or maybe just Beijing and Shanghai?); and that use of the cars was restricted to be within the city limits. I also read that China is in the middle of a vast highway building program and that the new highways were equipped with Chinese and English language signs. The same article went on to speculate that the restriction on driving rental cars out of the city might be lifted. Does anyone know if the restrictions have been lifted so I could (for example) rent a car in Shanghai and drive round the country for a few weeks? I have done similar driving holidays in other countries and quite enjoyed the experience, driving at my own pace and stopping wherever takes my fancy - sometimes with a schedule in mind, sometimes with no schedule. If the regulations have not changed, some ideas on how I could achieve a similar experience in China would be appreciated (that is, the independent, loosely scheduled holiday, rather then the must travel by car at all costs). Astronaut (talk) 17:36, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikitravel says one must have a Chinese licence to drive in mainland china ("driving in china"). I believe the BBC's Excess Baggage programme had someone on it last year who had tried, and eventually hired a driver/translator instead. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 17:47, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

(Original section EC with above) I don't know what you read, but various sources like [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] say there is no legal basis to drive in China without a Chinese drivers licence. They suggest some authorities may ignore it, perhaps with the help of a bribe, but it doesn't mean it's legal. Edit: One or two seem to imply some rental companies may therefore choose to ignore the requirement for a Chinese drivers licence. I don't know whether it's true but if it is, they're likely to be the smaller ones who may be only based in one city and will likely restrict you to the city in any case since they don't want you going somewhere the authorities are 'less understanding. However they also suggest it is possible for a foreigner to get a Chinese drivers licence (although I don't know if it's possible if you have almost no understanding of Mandarin).

So the answer to your question is it's probably possible right now, but you do need a Chinese drivers licence. I personally doubt the new highways are by themselves going to change things in the near future and in any case, it's usually difficult to know what the Chinese authorities plan to do.

Edit: Reading more carefully the sources suggest it may be possible in some places in China to get a drivers licence if you have a poor understanding of Mandarin. They also suggest you may not need to take a practical drivers test (at least for a temporarily licence) if you have an international licence. Which may be a good thing because I've heard, and some of the sources suggest that despite what you may think from their driving, the practical test particularly in the large cities where you will need to be if you don't speak Mandarin, can be rather difficult.

BTW, I don't know where you've driven before but as the sources mention (and also these links from the sources [20] [21]), bear in mind driving in China isn't going to be like driving in many parts of the developed world. Even compared to some developing Asian countries like Malaysia, driving in China is going to be far worse. Also while you may be able to get a licence without a good understanding of Mandarin, it's going to make things difficult if you have an accident or need assistance. Particularly if you are driving between cities so would end up in areas that gets less tourists. There is also the risk you may be targetted by unscrupulious people (authorities or otherwise) if you are identified as a foreigner. Also there may be places you shouldn't or are not legally allowed to go.

All that being the case, you may want to consider just hiring a driver (obviously one who has a decent level of English or whatever other language/s you do understand). As may be obvious and the sources mention, given the low wages in China the cost compared to a self drive car rental is not going to be much higher.

P.S. On further consideration, I'm not 100% certain that a tourist with a Chinese drivers licence can rent a car to drive between cities but the sources seem to imply to me it's possible (some of them seem to be referring to driving between cities or other long term drives). And Avis seems to allow you to rent cars for travel between cities (although it could be they'll restrict it to those with a business visa or similar).

Nil Einne (talk) 00:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Finlay's Wikitravel link looks interesting. Strange, I had always imagined an International Driving Permit would be a minimum requirement for self-drive car rental, rather then needing an actual Chinese driving license. I would also prefer to not have to hire a driver for the whole trip I have in mind. It would mean I would be stuck with an unknown travelling companion for whom I would have to pay for an extra hotel room and all their food (even if their actual wages are quite low). That could easily turn an expensive trip into a prohibitively expensive trip - effectively hiring the driver as a full-time employee for a few weeks, as well as potential hassles with Chinese employment law. The language is not an insurmountable obstacle, though it might take some lengthy pre-trip preparation. Any ideas on alternatives involving internal flights, trains, bike rental etc? Astronaut (talk) 11:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

In the same vein, it seems unlikely food will significantly add to the cost, we're talking China here. They're not going to expect to eat at a fancy restaurant and being Chinese should have no problem finding a cheap hawker or similar. Accomodation is likely to be more of an issue. Again, I don't think they're going to expect to sleep at a fancy hotel and I would guess in most places they'd be able to find a cheaper place to stay, although it'll still likely be a noticable addition to the cost. I doubt employement issues are likely to be more significant then trying to get a Chinese drivers licence, it's clear a lot more tourists hire drivers then try to self drive. (Also we're not talking about picking up some random person in the street, but someone who does it all the time, perhaps thru an agency.)

This source [22] I linked earlier mentions a number of helpful things including discussing a car+driver for intercity travel. It does say it's much more expensive then public transport (and also discusses public transport although I believe some of the other sources did too) but I don't think this is that surprising (my point was the cost compared to hiring a self-drive car). You can of course travel between cities with public transport or whatever then hire a local only car+driver for the big cities when needed.

BTW just to emphasise when I referred to language I meant for a self-drive case. Unless you plan to learn Mandarin, I don't see how 'lengthy pre-trip preparation' is going to be particularly helpful when you get in an accident (perhaps one which the 'victim' intentional caused) and neither the authorities nor the victim speak sufficient English. Worse if you end up in jail.

Nil Einne (talk) 15:09, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I would advise against doing this, especially on your own. There is just too great a risk. It is the sort of thing that could be memorable, the problem is, it is generally a bad idea when a tourist to be in an unsafe area, to be noticeable, and to be without protection. I agree, hire a car and a driver from a tour service experienced in dealing with Westerners. You will probably enjoy it the more from appreciating what you would not understand on your own. Yes, it would cost money, but far cheaper than it would be in the West.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:01, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

10-minute shower as opposed to 40.

If people who take showers daily take it for 10 minutes, would a 40-minute shower keep you clean for 4 days?

(If not, would you post any kind of scientific backing to your claim?) Thanks. --129.130.102.100 (talk) 20:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

A shower removes most of the dirt on you almost immediately. However, dirt accumulates on you at a relatively constant rate, so you would probably be around four times dirtier by the end. Reaper Eternal (talk) 20:34, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't work the way the OP thinks. Your body is either clean or dirty, and that's it. You can't "store" cleanness into your body for later use. Showering for 10 minutes gets you clean, but any showering after that is just going to waste. The water's not going to remove dirt that isn't there. However, if you have gone without showering for four days, you might need a 40-minute shower to get clean. JIP | Talk 20:38, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, probably. I only get about 10 minutes of hot water (small water heater), and the cold is very cold this time of year. So a 40-minute shower would send me into hypothermic shock, and I would probably be in bed for the next 4 days recovering, and you don't get very dirty lying in bed. Looie496 (talk) 20:53, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

• I'm amused by the request for scientific backing for any claim that contradicts the premise. I doubt any scientists have bothered to study such an obvioulsy flawed idea. How long you stay clean between showers has to do with what you do during that time, not how long you stayed in the shower. If you stay in your house watching television you are not going to get dirty as fast as someone who is workng in a coal mine or hiking in a forest, or doing anything that makes them sweat. If you brush your teeth for five minutes or thirty seconds, it doesn't make any difference if you immediately eat a bag of Oreos after you are done. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
  • The OP's premise is perhaps akin to the idea that if you impregnate 9 women, you can get a baby in 1 month. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:44, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Furthermore, medical professionals (when asked how to prevent winter itch, which can be exacerbated by long showers) seem to say that a short shower is as good as a long one in terms of getting clean. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:45, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

• • Prophylactic hygiene? It is certainly an interesting idea. If I spend a full 10 hours in the bathroom, showering, shaving and brushing my teeth, I would not need to mind my hygiene for the next two months. DI (talk) 12:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

As someone from Australia where drought conditions dramatically restricted water supplies, even in the biggest cities, for much of the first decade of this century, I really baulked at the sound of a 40 minute shower. 40 minutes would have been seen as criminal. In many places we were encouraged to restrict ourselves to 3 or 4 minute showers. I went on a school camp with a bunch of 15 year olds who found themselves using communal bathrooms where the water turned off after three minutes in the shower. To get it going again one had to leave the shower stall to press a button on the wall on the other side of the bathroom, maybe five metres away. Many students found this the toughest aspect of the camp! HiLo48 (talk) 02:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I feel the need to point out (in the spirit of internationalism) that daily showers is a peculiarly American fixation. four days without a shower probably wouldn't be noticed in Europe, and - short of athletics, hard physical labor, or some particularly dirt-prone task - probably wouldn't result in a noticeably filthy person. I mean seriously: haven't you people ever gone camping? --Ludwigs2 03:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Ludwigs2, you say this about Europe because the bidets there take care of the users in between showers. Unless we are particularly wealthy, tech-savvy, or more hygiene-conscious than the norm, we do not have the luxury of a bidet. This may explain why we feel so compelled to take showers daily. --70.179.174.101 (talk) 07:10, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, so many stereotypes being aired here about "Europe". In Denmark it is certainly the norm to shower everyday, and unfortunately the usage of bidets is not customary here. In fact I think it is only a small number of countries in Europe where they are generally used. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Speaking on behalf of myself and 98% of my fellow Europeans I can testify that we shower daily. After 4 days without showering, I think most people would be left sitting alone at their lunch room table.DI (talk) 12:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I was given the impression that once every two or three days was quite sufficient outside of special circumstances that might leave someone dirtier or smellier than usual. Then again, what do I know.

98% . Frequency varies vastly with culture. The "each day" convention is certainly gaining in popularity, but only sixty years ago the "once a week bath in front of the fire" was fairly common, at least in parts of the UK, and, I suspect, many parts of Europe. Dbfirs 13:20, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Is there some official survey on this anywhere? 148.197.81.179 (talk) 13:04, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

A shower can remove the past dirt on you, but not the future dirt. It is simply impossible. Oda Mari (talk) 17:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC) font color="#CC0000">J

Quick lookup in database, blocked on my IP

http://bmd.stcatharines.library.on.ca:1968/

Hi, could anyone with normal internet access search Henry Sytrcker in the above database? It's run by a public library, yet blocked on the IP I'm on currently. -- Zanimum (talk) 20:59, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

No records found. Warofdreams talk 21:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

"Sytrcker"? You sure that is not a typo? At least I wouldn't know how to pronounce that combination of consonants, and Google comes up blank on it. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Ack, sorry, Strycker. Actually, heading home right now, but thanks anyway for the attempts! -- Zanimum (talk) 22:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Nothing found for Strycker, either. Warofdreams talk 00:33, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Use remote control on Nikon D40

I have a Nikon D40 with a ML-L3 remote control. How do I use it to trip the shutter? (I know about setting the length of time the remote stays on.) Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 21:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

How about some instructions? Dismas|^(talk) 04:21, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

That is for long-term exposures only and it doesn't give instructions for the D40. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I found the Nikon tech support number, 800-645-6687. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:42, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Resolved

The Review is gone?

Ok, I have a confession to make: I sometimes lurk over at Wikipedia Review as a reader only, just to see what the various WP malcontnents over there have say about the big issues over here. So, I was curious as to what their take on the SOPA blackout might be, and lo and behold, it appears our foremost critics are off the air. Does anybody know who is actually in charge of paying WR's bills? I can't say I would be heartbroken to see it gone, but I'm curious as to whether the supposed "white hats" over there are willing to pay to keep their site online. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

The only thing that seems to have happen is they forgot to pay for domain renewal. This isn't particularly expensive (for a .com domain, potentially under US$10 a year.) so I doubt cost has anything to do with it. More likely someone just forgot and didn't check the email (or doesn't have access to the email) or otherwise missed the renewal reminders their registrar undoutedly sent. (Admitedly it's been ~3 days.) I note their registrar is GoDaddy which lost a number of customers due to their initial support of SOPA/PIPA, may be WR wanted to move but couldn't work out how or wanted to blackout their website to protest but weren't sure how so decided just to let their domain expire. Nil Einne (talk) 00:10, 20 January 2012

When an organization forgets or neglects or chooses not to renew their domain registration, can someone else slip in and take over the registration? Is there some rule that the original party can get it back for the nominal fee? Edison (talk) 05:49, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It's known as domain sniping. There's a 30 day grace period for owners to reclaim their domain after it expires. --Kateshortforbob _talk 09:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

However different TLDs may have different rules. The above article links to [23] which gives some examples. Nil Einne (talk) 13:35, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Per the article deletion discussion, it seems the person in charge of the domain name can't be contacted. You can still access it via [24] (I had expected it may be possible, but couldn't be bothered finding out the IP of the host). BTW I forgot to mention but even Microsoft failed to renew some of their domains on occassion in the past [25] [26]. A quick search finds other companies [27] [28] [29] Nil Einne (talk) 13:27, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

This seems to explain the situation: [30] Falconus^{p t c} 17:09, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

After this royal screwup, maybe they'll be a little more reflective about criticizing others? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

January 20

Calling all diving experts

Well, I'm planning to swim and dive with the dolphins and false killer whales and if given a chance, dive to a site where I can see sunken ships. I've already found a place where I can go dive with these big fish but they are requiring me to present a dive card. I don't have a dive card but they told me that they can help me get one and need to pay them for they will give me diving lessons. But my question is, do you have to be an expert swimmer before you learn how to dive? I don't know how to swim. Whenever, I go swimming I just imitate what other swimmers do like the movements of their hands and feet. In doing so, I notice that I run out of breath easily and that's disappointing. I'm thinking that if I have the complete diving gears it will be easier for me to swim and won't worry about the supply of oxygen. But I'm not sure so I need the knowledge of diving experts here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.107.148.210 (talk) 07:40, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm no diving expert, but given that diving involves swimming underwater (amongst other things), if you can't do it on the surface, expecting it to be easier with all the complications of SCUBA gear seems rather optimistic. Take swimming lessons first... AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Andy... 'doing like movements' of others or buying gear will not make you adept at something. Swimming lessons I recommend as well, then a diving course, and - probably - if you think back to this query you shall probably laugh at your past self. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

A key component of learning to swim is a sense of comfort and competence in the water, so that you don't get flustered, or worse, panicked when something doesn't go right: a wave, a current, equipment problems, fatigue, etc. That is independent of learning to dive, but it's vital to your safety. Running out of breath can be brought on by anxiety as well as by poor technique, so I'd encourage you to get enough instruction to feel comfortable and competent without breathing apparatus before undertaking the much more complex task of getting a dive card. Acroterion (talk) 15:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Swim test requirements vary amongst the diver training organizations. PADI, the world's largest, calls for their students to:

• swim 200 metres/yards (or 300 metres/yards in mask, fins and snorkel). There is no time limit for this, and you may use any swimming strokes you want.
• float and tread water for 10 minutes, again using any methods that you want.[31]

Diving, under normal conditions, is easy. I could give an enthusiastic non-swimmer a five minute talk, pop a regulator in their mouth, and take them on a closely supervised dive, and everything would probably be fine, but what happens when, through carelessness, you get separated from your buddy and surface to find that you are in a strong current, a long way from the dive boat, and, when you inflate your BC, its dry rotted seams bust open, forcing you to ditch your gear to get rid of the negative buoyancy? Well, you'll never rent gear from that shop again! But hopefully it will be by your choice, having been comfortable enough that you were able either to swim back to the boat or to stay afloat long enough to have been picked up. So, go to your local dive shop and explain your situation so that they can recommend swimming lessons that will give you sufficient proficiency to be comfortable in the water. -- ToE 12:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't agree, ToE. I mean, I don't know You, but I suppose in most cases a few minutes of instructions will not make the diver in spe as prepared to feel comfortable in the water and _know what to do in an emergency_ as they should be/as they will be after an entire course. In other words, I appreciate the conjunctive in italics in your answer. Imagine something else: will a short discussion and a better car make someone a good driver or bring about a good driving experience? In most cases - no, it just means that they will be leaving better-quality paint on the lampposts they inevitably hit. --Ouro (blah blah) 14:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I fail to see where we disagree, so I must assume that I did a poor job conveying my answer. I am an advocate of strong swim requirements for diver courses. Back when the YMCA used to train divers, they had very strong swim requirements, presumable because they also taught swim and water safety classes. (YMCA (diving organization) currently redirects to YMCA which has a single sentence about their now defunct SCUBA training; it would make an interesting stand-alone article if we could come up with the sources). I've heard that some agencies these days have much laxer swim requirements, looking for students to perform only a few strokes "with some forward progress" (but I wasn't able to find a RS for this). It is pretty common to hear people ask why they need to know how to swim in order to dive, given that they will "have a tank to breathe from and a vest to keep them afloat". Perhaps my worst-case-scenario above was a bit extreme, but it is remotely possible that you could find yourself without your gear at the end of a dive. More importantly, swimming proficiency and its associated comfort in the water will help keep a student from panicking in more common situations when there's really nothing wrong, such as being splashed in the face while waiting to be picked up on the surface in a chop, or in between the two extremes, when a mask gets knocked off underwater -- something that will perturb many experienced divers. -- ToE 17:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The fault was on my part. I put that I don't agree because I thought a short talk before a dive was not sufficient to prepare someone. Sorry, I hope I didn't perplex you too much. Thanks and have a great Saturday! --Ouro (blah blah) 06:45, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I did an elementary diver training course paired up with someone who couldn't swim well. He sputtered and coughed water once and I had to lift him out of the water to recover. Not recommended, also the dangers in diving seemed far less intuitive and predictable than other "classical" dangerous activities. Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 20:41, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I was PADI-certified ~15 years ago, and if memory serves -- which it doesn't always at my age -- I'd say 25% of the course- and pool-work was bouyancy control, 25% was other safety stuff, 20% was computations using the dive tables, and 30% was swimming skills. So, my opinion is that our OP is good with 30% of what he actually needs, can skip the dive table stuff if he goes in a group, and has zero preparation for 50% of dive skills.

Not trying to be DaHorsesAss here, but would you think yourself competent to drive on the highway if all you know about it is how to start a car and steer it?

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 00:00, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Why did Rousseau, Dewey and Bandaur decided to observe children?

I have a paper to write, and have chosen the topic of observing children. I have to link it to theorists and have chosen Bandaur, Dewey and Rousseau. I have researched and understand their actual theories, but can find no information as to why they actually decided to observe children in the first place! Please can someone help, I'm desperate!

Have you looked for articles on those folks here at wikipedia? "Dewey", for one, is a fairly common name. Which Dewey? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:07, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi, yes Its John Dewey the theorist I'm refering to.--

Maybe the OP is referring to John Dewey-Meerkatakreem (talk) 11:49, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The question of upbringing and education has always been of primary interest for philosophers. It is because this subject is at the center of important philosophical questions like the relationship between nature and culture (inherent instincts as opposed to influences from upbringing and society) and education as a factor in changing society (influence or enlighten children and they will grow up to make an elightened society). Especially the philosophers of the Age of Enlightenment were interested in education, and just about every philosopher of that age wrote tracts about it, as can be seen for example with John Lockes theory about newborn children being a tabula rasa (clean slate), completely blank minds that could me molded through education and that the contemporary poor state of education was the cause of most of the ills in society. Of course this view changed somewhat, even during the 18th century, not least because of Rousseaus claims about inherent natural instincts in children being corrupted by an ignorant and decadent upbringing and how a more "natural" education would encourage these instincts to flourish and create a more "natural" society. Thus creating strands to a more modern view of education, which takes both concepts of influence from biology and society into consideration. I hope these examples are sufficient to give a little insight into why education and upbringing always has been and still are of interest to philosophers. --Saddhiyama (talk) 12:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. I'll be using this information! Thanks again --

At least with John Dewey, he was something of a practical philosopher, and tried specifically to be more than just a "ivory tower" academic. His practice of philosophy fits into the school known as pragmatism, and he saw philosophy not as a means to study the human condition, but to better it. While he's often described as a philosopher, he made a bigger impact as an educational reformer and educational theorist; his ideas on the actual practice of education and pedagogy were (and continue to be) rather important. Being someone who was interested in reforming schools, Dewey obviously saw the need to study children. His most important works in this field come from the middle period of his writing, and Democracy and Education remains a classic work, many future teachers use it as part of their studies. You can find more works of his at John_Dewey#Publications, and you'll note that most of what he wrote between 1897-1930 are books on education and pedagogy. At other times in his career he focused on other issues (early on his works focused on psychology, and later works become more esoteric in their philosophy) but his core works are about how to properly educate children. --Jayron32 15:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It should be mentioned that a lot of thinkers in the Age of Enlightenment was likewise preoccupied with the practical application of their ideas and numerous experimental schools appeared in that period, most notably the German thinker Johann Bernhard Basedow who founded the school by the name of the Philanthropinum, which since inspired many similar schools all over Europe. The ideas of Rousseau was a bit more difficult to apply, since many of them were based on a rather utopian ideal of a child completely isolated from society. But bits and pieces caught on, not least his ideas of removing the swaddling of the infant and that the mothers themselves should breastfeed their children, although he was not the only one to promote those ideas (but probably the most popular). --Saddhiyama (talk) 16:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Not sure how much it influenced him, but I believe that Rousseau was responsible for several children over the years who were all placed into orphanages. If I had five children and didn't know where any of them were, that might influence me to look at children in general differently. Then again, maybe not for Rousseau. I don't know, but just throwing it out there as a potential idea. Falconus^{p t c} 17:00, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

His hypocritical stance in his writings as opposed to how he brought up his own children (which, as you have already mentioned, he didn't as he placed them all in orphanages or at foster parents) is quite famous, so I think we can safely categorise him as an "ivory tower" philosopher in that regard. He was more practical in his writings on music. And of course some of his ideas had an immense influence on the world, as they were unfortunately taken quite literally by some influental personages during the French Revolution (Jonathan Israel argues that it would have been very different if Diderots idea of General Will had been taken literally during that period instead). --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Laundry

Why do brightly colored new items, such as towels and T-shirts, frequently fade badly in small circles to larger steaks? I have asked others who experience the same thing. We have tried different washers, detergents And temperatures etc. Can you please help and teach me how to prevent this from continuing? Thank you, Lin Parker

, , , — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.174.54.246 (talk) 10:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

"Steaks"? Do you mean "streaks"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:06, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't comment on the pattern of fading, but when you buy anything that is brightly coloured, it has been dyed. When you wash it, you will inevitably remove some excess dye as well as dirt. My advice is to wash using a powder specially formulated for colour preservation, to use only the amount of powder recommended by the makers of the powder, to wash using the procedure recommended by the maker of the garment/product at the temperature they recommend. Often hard water can cause streaking of powder so you may wish to use a proprietary water softener (in the UK it's called Calgon). Actually I find black garments are the worst affected by colour loss, and if that happens and I'm fond of the garment, I will re-dye the garment myself. Possibly the only way to avoid fading is to dry clean such items. --TammyMoet (talk) 12:06, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Some suggestions:

1) Use liquid detergents instead of powdered, since they are already more diluted.

2) Further dilute them by adding detergent and water first, then add clothes, right before you start the machine.

3) Don't let the machine pre-soak. This will allow detergents to oxidize fabrics more at the waterline. StuRat (talk) 20:00, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

2 is only going to work with a top-loader. And then only with one that doesn't automatically start after it's full of water. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 01:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree that it must be a top-loader, but if it starts before you put the clothes in, just stop it, add the clothes and restart. I can't believe there's any washing machine which lacks a way to stop it. (If nothing else, you could unplug it.) StuRat (talk) 05:36, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, front-loading washing-machine designers are not as intelligent as you, StuRat, and they assume that users are as unintelligent as they are, so they design the machines to re-start from the default of pumping out any remaining water (with detergent) when first switched on. I couldn't believe it either, but it seems to be true. I haven't found a way round the peculiar programming. Dbfirs 09:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Continuing protests and such like

I have been seeing these Black March posters around the internet: http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9573/mzida.jpg and I wondering a few things. Obviously firstly will it make any sort of difference at all, and secondly whether it would be worth doing it in England or would it just be the USA that can change anything here.

Also, I seem to be getting a lot of contradictory news here, they've given up on this censorship thing, no they haven't, it was unlike to go through anyway, it isn't going to change anything, the whole internet will shut down, they don't need this they can close any website they want anyway... So, once and for all, what actually would be the final result if this new Act is passed, and does anyone know the current state of how likely that is?

148.197.81.179 (talk) 12:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Obviously we can't predict the future. But the number of US congresspeople who have changed their position on SOPA/PIPA after January 18th has been fairly dramatic. See this article and its rather dramatic graphic that has been making the rounds. At the moment it's still unclear what the future of these bills will be (and the majority of Congressfolk haven't stated a position), and nobody is really sure what the final bills that will be brought to vote will be, if they are brought to vote at all. It's very much in flux at this particular moment. There are rather strong forces rallied in support of the bill, and there are rather strong forces rallied against it. And it is still one of the most dysfunctional and unpopular US Congresses in history we're talking about. So it's still anybody's guess.

Separately, it's not clear to me that the January 18th blackout and the "black March" are at all the same types of events. Boycotting is not the same thing as blacking out, and interpreting sales numbers is difficult even in a robust economic moment. It would probably be very hard to distinguish the signal from the noise in the latter form of protest, and I'm also not sure that there's as much genuinely popular support behind the anti-SOPA/PIPA movement as that sort of act implies. (I believe that those who are heavily invested in the tech industry and its byproducts are strongly against SOPA. But the market of consumers more generally is much larger than that.) --Mr.98 (talk) 13:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Update: apparently SOPA and PIPA have been formally dropped — for now. --Mr.98 (talk) 21:40, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Doctors and Nurses

I often see in TV programs workers in hospitals refer to each other by their titles. "Here's his chart Doctor", "Thank you nurse, could you leave us alone" etc. Sometimes it's because they are shouting for any doctor or nurse, but often they are talking to people they work with regularly, on a ward they work on daily. Is there any truth in this happening in real life, or is it just a TV thing? It doesn't seem to occur (even on TV) in other professions. You don't hear any "Take a look at these numbers accountant". Prokhorovka (talk) 16:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

In a few professions, the title for some reason is used as if it were a name. A receptionist says "Doctor is running late, but he will see you next." In British novels, "Sister" is similarly used as if it were the name of a nurse. It does not seem to be limited to medical professions, since one might say "Judge," "Father (to a Priest)," "Sheriff," "Guard," "Officer," "Waiter," "Coach," or "Driver." It would not seem natural to say "Lawyer," "Plumber," "Janitor," "Cashier," "Salesman," "Maid," "Bellhop" or "Electrician." One might hear a student say "Teacher," but it would seem a bit rude. Edison (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

"Sister" in a British and Commomwealth nursing context is a female charge nurse (ie a nurse in charge of a shift). See Nursing management#Roles. Alansplodge (talk) 23:30, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It depends on the job - sometimes they're descriptions, sometimes they're titles. To take an example in British local government, whilst an officer might frequently say "Good morning Councillor" (their description and title), it would be entirely wrong for them to reply "Good morning Officer" (a word reserved for police officers). In your example, you wouldn't say "Take a look at these numbers, accountant" (description), but if you stick a few zeros on the end, you would say "Take a look at these numbers, Congressman" (title). There's little rhyme or reason I can immediately think of as to whether or not you can guess if, say, English isn't your first language (e.g. the British equivalent of 'Congressman' is a post-nominal description, Congressman Bob Jones would be Bob Jones MP) --Saalstin (talk) 18:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

See this famous clip. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 18:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for all the answers everyone. That clip in particular is priceless. Prokhorovka (talk) 09:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd say there's a fair element of doing this when one is trying emphasise the professionalism or status of the position. To use a separate example, naughty children at school may be told to "Go and see the Principal/Headmaster/whatever" even though all involved know the name of the Principal is Bill Smith, while a student who's not in trouble and is being sent about a positive matter would be more likely to be told to "Go and see Mr Smith". Similarly, I'd say in the medical situation the use of Doctor, Nurse, etc, would be far more typical in serious situations where the medico themself, other medical staff, or even the patient is trying to emphasise that this is a professional that knows what they're doing, even if they know their name. The other use for these terms is of course when people want to address a person in a particular position, but don't know their name - "Doc, can you help me", "Pull up here, Driver", "Waiter, I'll have the bill please", "Forgive me Father". And getting back to education, Edison noted that it would be uncommon for a student to simply say "Teacher...", which is true, but it's not uncommon for students to use other generic names, e.g., "Sir", "Miss", "Ma'am", and "Professor", especially in big institutions where again they may not know the actual name of the staff member. An accountant would very rarely be involved in either of these situations (having their professionalism emphasised, or where someone needs to anonymously address them) and thus simply naming them as their profession would not be necessary. --jjron (talk) 15:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Most of these words that can be used as titles on their own can also be used as titles, with names: for example "doctor", "nurse", professor" and "sergeant" can all be used with a name (Doctor Jones, Nurse Ledston, Sergeant Bilko); but "engineer" and "accountant", which are not used as titles with a name, and are also not used alone in addressing. All the counter-examples I can think of (a title used in address, but not with a name) title is not just a professional one but the holder of a significant post: headmaster, minister, prime minister. I'm sure there are a few cases that this suggestion doesn't cover but it mostly holds. --ColinFine (talk) 16:33, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Minister and Prime Minister are used to address the office-holder concerned (see Yes Minister- and note that there's no comma in the TV show's title, which does not reflect common external usage; but the sequel Yes, Prime Minister does have a comma). They haven't traditionally been used in conjunction with the surname, but that is changing. At an international meeting, one might distinguish between the PMs from different countries by referring to, say, "Prime Minister Cameron", "Prime Minister Rudd", etc. And within Australia, while it's been traditional to refer to the Minister for XYZ as "The Minister for XYZ", when a Prime Minister is talking about some program that this minister has been given responsibility for, she will often refer to him in terms such as "Minister Smith has carriage of this matter and future questions should be directed to him". -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

• Speaking as a lawyer, there is the formality of the courtroom, where I as a lawyer may be addressed "Mr. Wehwalt", but also as "counsel". However, I would never put "Counsel" before my name, and perhaps in some parts of the country, especially in the South, once you might have called someone "Lawyer Soandso", but I think that went out about the time of To Kill a Mockingbird. So all of these in the examples I see are very formal settings.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:46, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

No. 2 pencil

For the purpose of doing the SAT, is a No. 2 pencil equivalent to an HB pencil or to a B pencil? Widener (talk) 21:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

HB. See Number 2 pencil. Dismas|^(talk) 21:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

HB is like #2, see pencil#Grading_and_classification. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 21:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I saw that article. It says that some manufacturers consider No. 2 to be equivalent to B. I want to make sure I use the correct pencil when taking the SAT. Widener (talk) 21:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The SAT is a US test. And #2 is mostly a US grading. And #2 is almost universally an HB in the US. Dismas|^(talk) 21:39, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

January 21

Does Israel have a latin alphabet language as one of is offical languages (english perhaps)

i believe one of Israels offical languages is english but in the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Latin_alphabet_world_distribution.svg#filehistory it dosn't mention Israel, i believe it is a mistake but i am not sure.77.126.49.232 (talk) 01:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.49.232 (talk) 01:07, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

No. Official languages of Israel are Hebrew and Arabic (the roadsigns are a courtesy to tourists). Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 01:14, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

The status of the English language in Israel is discussed, though without references, at Languages of Israel#English. --Antiquary (talk) 10:35, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Disasters that occurred on Friday the 13th?

I just noticed that the Costa Concordia disaster occurred on Friday the 13th. Have there been other significant disasters in history that occurred on Friday the 13th? JIP | Talk 22:18, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Probably just as many as on any other combination of day and date, but if we were to compile a list, the Black Friday bushfires in Victoria, Australia, which killed 71 people, might be a good start. HiLo48 (talk) 22:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Friday the 13th#Events on Fridays the 13th. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:45, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

More death and disaster at Yahoo News. --Antiquary (talk) 12:08, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Just a cultural note. In Italy, the unlucky day is not Friday the 13th but Friday the 17th.--151.41.163.244 (talk) 14:04, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

You may be seeing cultural change in action!--Wehwalt (talk) 14:22, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

January 22

Unrevisied versions of books

Once an author revises the text of their book, does every new printing always feature those changes? Or is the old version still sometimes reprinted? I ask because I'm looking for the original text of a book, which is apparently quite different from the one I have now, and I'm wondering whether I have any options apart from secondhand bookstores. 58.109.33.108 (talk) 17:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I think it would probably be released with a different ISBN number so, in theory both versions could still be printed. I have a friend who did this with one of his books so I'm guessing it's standard practice in publishing. Paul MacDermott (talk) 17:29, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

It would be unusual for the "old" edition to be reprinted, though. I meant it seriously about Google books, sometimes you can "game" the snippet a bit to get a little more text.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Supermarket ATMs

I'm just curious as to whether you can use a supermarket ATM during the night while the supermarket itself is closed. For example, if you went to a Tesco superstore Saturday night/Sunday morning or Sunday night/Monday morning while it was shut because of the Sunday trading restrictions, would you still be able to use an ATM on the premises? It's not something I've ever tried to do so please forgive me for my ignorance. Paul MacDermott (talk) 17:22, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I've done it on trips to the UK. I don't think withdrawing money is considered trading.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Assuming using it doesn't entail getting into the shop, then sure. Using an ATM doesn't count as "trading" when considering trading and licensing laws. Really the ATM has little to do with Tesco; they just rent a bank space and provide a phone line and electricity. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 17:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec)(For those curious, this is a UK question with our supermarkets and Sunday trading legislation) - ATMs tend to be outside either on a side wall or occasionally under an alcove, and are thus unaffected. If you wanted to use one inside the store, they'd be inaccessible. --Saalstin (talk) 17:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I should have mentioned this was a UK question so apologies for that. My query really arose because someone asked me about it the other day and I wasn't really sure. :) Paul MacDermott (talk) 17:36, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

The bit about "Tesco" was a hint. :)--Wehwalt (talk) 17:38, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Or any other supermarket, I guess. :) Tesco just came to mind as it's my nearest store. Paul MacDermott (talk) 17:47, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Can you cook pasta and rice in flavoured water or sauces?

So I was cooking some Gigli pasta today, and it was delicious. But without the sauce (a plain tomato sauce) I put on it would have been fairly bland. Which set me thinking; could I have cooked the pasta in the sauce? And if so, would it have 'worked' and been tasty? I presume you could cook it in stock fairly easily, but has anyone done this, and is it effective. How about a thicker sauce, would that work at all, and what would it taste like? Prokhorovka (talk) 18:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)