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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 193.219.3.229 (talk) at 10:09, 30 January 2012 (→Introduction section edit request: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Trans-Pacific Agreement ?!

Seems like something similar is going on between the US. and Pacific countries ... http://tppwatch.org/what-is-tppa/ Stanjourdan (talk) 10:08, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

lifting the indefinite Semi-protection

The media attention has dropped, so it should be time to look if the protection should be lifted so unregistered and newly registered users can make contributions to the article.Belorn (talk) 05:34, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Done The Helpful One 18:40, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is quite clear that when acta is up on the news, the vandalism starts again. Belorn (talk) 17:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant. Locking Wikipedia pages is typically a reactionary measure, not a preventative one. The editing on the article for the past week has been relatively tame and within normal limits, so there's no reason to needlessly restrict who can edit the page (a bit of an interesting choice given the goals of SOPA, PIPA and ACTA, methinks). elektrikSHOOS (talk) 08:10, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So what exactly would it do?

I didn't find any particular mention about *what* it plans to change (several countries have signed it already, so it must have been fully formulated by now). It's a threat to human rights and has sparked lots of criticism, so there should be more information on it, rather than some general info about signing and leaks. And way too much jargon. The article seems biased towards the agreement, making it look like good and noble and something every country should sign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.28.234.39 (talk) 10:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just because the article is not ultra negative does not mean its bias. The article actually seems very unbias in the good sense. It seems to me that you dont actually want an unbias article but just want an anti ACTA tone throughout the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.28.203 (talk) 04:32, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

tbh, I think he's right. This is quite biased...It only tells us who is against it and why... if we wanted to know that, we'd read the news. There's no information about what changes the treaty actually means. The PDF's are too politically correct for the common man to understand. It puts the protesters in a bad light and makes them look like they're all whining corporations that want free stuff whilst in my internet research i've found that the treaty is more than just piracy... I came to wikipedia to see what the deal is. My bad 91.182.71.133 (talk) 02:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The few things that can be described as neutral and objective facts about the changes the treaty introduce are under the Legal framework and Treaty content sections. The rest are as any other political subjet about the changes the treaty introduce as precived by different parties. That said, the Criticism section should be weaved into the Positions section, and the article need a bit of updating about the final version. Belorn (talk) 06:58, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New version of ACTA released

Since ACTA is supposed to be signed by Poland on the 26th of January 2012, the nowadays official version has been released. It's available at the site of the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, more precisely : http://www.mkidn.gov.pl/media/docs/20120118-wniosek_ACTA.pdf . The PDF is quite big, since the text is stored as images. The English version starts on page 57. — Preceding unsigned comment added by XAVeRY (talk • contribs) 15:40, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is the final text since 15 November 2010 available as a normal text PDF on EC's site. Tokenzero (talk) 10:34, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I looked for the PDF of the treaty text at that web site, and do not immediately see it. The page I see is largely pro-ACTA advertising, with many links. The few, most obvious, candidate links I have checked do not seme to have it. Can you give a complete link to the pdf? Thanks. Wwheaton (talk) 04:06, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Completely below is the "external links" section, which gives a link to the final version. Furhtermore the full txt is available here on wikisource: s:Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. L.tak (talk) 05:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Blatant POV pushing

The whole lede of the article is a textbook example of POV pushing. First, per WP:MOS it's way too long. And the reason why it's too long cuz someone saw fit to cram in as much as "so-and-so opposes it", "opponents have argued..." "opponents have also criticized..." and so and so forth. Seriously, this is as an unbalanced instance of POV pushing as I've seen.VolunteerMarek 00:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Could you specify a bit more in depth what you mean. If you consider it too long, what sections should be removed/shortened, or is it the lead that you have issue with? Belorn (talk) 00:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As I already said above, yes, it's the lede. For now.VolunteerMarek 01:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't call it POV pushing because the opposition makes up the bulk of the issue's notable coverage. The lede however is too long. PeRshGo (talk) 01:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You don't think it overdoing it? Usually in these kinds of articles the concerned parties have the decency to put in a sentence or two in the lede and save all that stuff for a bulky "Criticisms" section. Just saying, that's how POV pushing is USUALLY done. Here it's just over the top.VolunteerMarek 05:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, must been too tired and missed it :). Anyway, The ideal approach is to integrate the negative criticism into the article: negative information is woven throughout the article in the appropriate topical sections (wp:Criticism). So the criticism do belong there, but the historical information like when the preliminary talks and Official negotiations took place might better be outside the lead section. The text about the draft text leaks might also be unnecesary in a lead as it does not look to be most important aspects of the article. Last, the Polish signing of the treaty might also be moved down. Belorn (talk) 10:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wanted to give a heads up that the page desperately needs some coverage/analysis of the recent treaty content - there's literally zilch on the page right now, pretty much all the analysis or summarization of content is of the outdated drafts. And until the body of the page is complete and neutral, getting the lead that way will be pretty impossible. I've had trouble finding good english dissections in the media Sloggerbum (talk) 22:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to summarize criticism from major organizations on the Polish Wikipedia here, you may find it a good coverage of the final content, in particular the references, as they're almost all in English and include key quotations from significant sources. Tokenzero (talk) 15:05, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Something a bit fresh

Hi, I'm here cause I was bribed :) (bento next time ok? ) Can I suggest clearer approachable language, lets start off shoving all the lede into a section called overview, links and all, same as we did on sopa, then like this

  • Dump "The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) is a proposed plurilateral agreement for the purpose of establishing international standards on intellectual property rights enforcement."
  • Dump It would establish an international legal framework for countries to join voluntarily,
  • Dump The scope of ACTA includes counterfeit goods, generic medicines and copyright infringement on the Internet.
  • Go with something like "The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement ACTA is a voluntary international agreement to make uniform intellectual property rights laws including copyright. It effects name brand and counterfeit goods and medicines, as well as copyright infringement on the internet and in smartphones and mp3 players."

For Volunteer Marek's concerns, instead of just summarizing the article section by section like for sopa, how about we summarize for and against into roughly equal sized parts of the lede ? Because yes, all the notable stuff is the opposition because they do funny protests people love to watch and everyone falls asleep listening to the hot air, so understandably it's not in the article. But lets cover both sides shall we ? that way I can get my Bento ! (nod) (hint) (Should I call the section blatant bento pushing ? too far ?) Penyulap talk 15:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

+1, but it might be hard to cover both sides equally without just writing section by section what it's supposed to protect - I tried to read EC and Polish responses and it's basically repeating over and over that it doesn't require any change, that there's no way legitimate medicine could be targeted and that there are sooo many guarantees like the non-binding preamble's reference to Doho and the undefined fundamental right to fair process. There's some interesting content in the "older" legal opinion of the EP Legal Service, 5 October 2011 (released to the public on December 19 after pressure from FFII), though, that might be considered the official EP stance. Tokenzero (talk) 15:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In general, I think its a good idea to put the current lead into a section, and make a new short lead that breifly present what ACTA is, its purpose, and a very summery of the opposition to it, and lastly a short summery of the controversy around the negotiations. But please do not call acta an agreement to make uniform copyright laws. Acta is about intellectual property rights enforcement which extends over much more than just copyright. Belorn (talk) 22:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any better, any suggestions? Penyulap talk 19:30, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite as per ITN comments

I've rewritten the lead essentially from scratch, as the other was more or less at an unworkable point. The original content has been moved to a new section titled background, which is a more appropriate designation for that text.   — C M B J   23:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Very nicely done. I would like to see the notable/infamous secrecy of the negotiations being mentioned in the lead but beyond that its a extreme improvement over the last lead. Belorn (talk) 11:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

UN's opinion?

What's UN's opinion on this? Who knows about it? What are the chances ACTA gets archived or banned overall? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.126.135.232 (talk) 21:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Probability is virtually zero-chance. The UN may look over this treaty and some member states object to it, but that will have no impact whatsoever on what the signatories of the treaty do. HammerFilmFan (talk) 03:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Protests in Poland

Don't have an account but protests in Poland were much larger than what is said on the website. Protests took place 25th, 26th and there is another protest in Warsaw today. In Krakow alone there was 15000 people. This is according to the PAP (Polish Press Agency). In total given protests took place in around 30 cities and at a minimum 1000 people were at each protest with ones in Wroclaw and Bydgoszcz counting 5000+ so we are talking of tens of thousands of people on the streets between 25th-26th. The big Warsaw protest takes place today (27th), so expect protests totalling at above 100000. NEWS IN POLISH http://www.rmf24.pl/raport-koniec-wolnego-internetu/acta-fakty/news-tysiace-osob-na-protestach-przeciwko-acta-zamieszki-w,nId,431100 "W sumie wzięło w nich udział co najmniej kilkadziesiąt tysięcy ludzi." TRANSLATION: In total at least tens of thousands of people participated. Kraków: 15000 Wrocław, Bydgoszcz: 5000+ Katowice: 1000 Lodz: 2500+ Kielce: 2000 Gdynia: 2000 http://www.rmf24.pl/fakty/polska/news-stworzylismy-z-wami-mape-protestow,nId,430940 Poznań: 2000 MAP OF PROTESTS: http://www.rmf24.pl/fakty/polska/news-stworzylismy-z-wami-mape-protestow,nId,430940 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.202.52.134 (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

EU Countries that signed this treaty

Hello. I came to the page in order to find out which countries signed this treaty and which ones did not. (I want to find out where the traitors are strongest.) Could someone add this to the article somewhere please? 194.166.100.6 (talk) 09:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"EU and its Member States that signed the Agreement at this ceremony are: the EU, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom" Sauce: http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/economy/i_property/acta1201.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.55.55.257 (talk) 16:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Depositary

I actually knew that a rapporteur is not a reporter but I had to look up Depositary. Shouldn't we at least have a redirect for that? --92.202.63.148 (talk) 15:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Map & EU.

The map may be clearer with a color for the EU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.81.62.174 (talk) 16:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 30 January 2012

Please remove Mike Masnick of Techdirt noted that the handmade masks were themselves symbolically "counterfeit," as Time Warner owns intellectual property rights to the masks and typically expects royalties for their depiction. from Polish parliament section. The cited source is a popular blog and definitely not reliable. It is not clear whether the producers of that mask pay any royalties or not. It is just a speculation and definitely not neutral to present it as facts. The second source from Times doesn't say that Polish parliament wearing of that mask is an act of "counterfeiting".

83.170.106.45 (talk) 04:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

map does not match article

article says south korea signed, but map does not show south korea in magenta; is that intentional? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.201.80.240 (talk) 07:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction section edit request

Could you please fix a statement "The agreement was signed on 1 October 2010 ..." - the date should be 1 October 2011. () Thanks.

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