Talk:Germany women's national football team

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Copy-edit

 Done

Template:LOCEcopy

I have just completed a copy-edit of this article. My main changes were to tenses in some sections where in English the present perfect tense is more appropriate. One comment - the article uses a couple of different styles for tables, some with grid lines visible and shaded backgrounds, whereas the "current squad" table uses no grid lines and no shading in the main part of the table. Perhaps the tables should all use the same format for internal consistency. – ukexpat (talk) 20:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again for the copy-editing this article. Regarding the tables, I'm not sure if the squad table should really be changed, because the currently used template seems to be the default style for football squads. EnemyOfTheState (talk) 19:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

FAC

I have removed the {{fac}} template that was added here today, as the nomination was incomplete. If the intent is to submit the article as a FAC candidate, please re-add {{fac}}, follow the links in the template to initiate the nomination, and add it at WP:FAC. Thank you. Maralia (talk) 17:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Why the title change?

Why did the title get changed from "Germany" to "German"? EVERY OTHER national team article in the sport is at "(Country name) women's national football team", not "(Adjective) women's national football team"! Although the USA and Canada articles use "soccer" and the Australia article uses "football (soccer)", you'll find them under "United States", "Canada", and "Australia", not "American", "Canadian", and "Australian". In fact, it doesn't even match the MEN'S team, for crying out loud... see Germany national football team. — Dale Arnett (talk) 20:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The article was moved during its FAC because the old title was considered by some as awkward English and as an incorrect translation of the topic's actual German name. The men's article was also moved briefly, but has been moved back by members of the WikiProject Football apparently. EnemyOfTheState_|talk 09:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

The team play under "Germany" right? Not "German". (In the German-language of course) I think the article needs to be moved back. —Borgarde 13:14, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what that has to do with the name of this article. Apparently, the men's article also recognizes that "Germany national team" is bad English, since despite it's page name, the bolded title says "German national football team". EnemyOfTheState_|talk 11:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Does the football team represent the country or the women that reside there? Being the former, it should be moved back. Uksam88 (talk) 21:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The title should obviously be returned to that of the MOS, that would be Germany not German, this is to make the naming conventions much easier. Instead of having articles like "Korean Republic national football team", "Republic of Irish national football team" or "United States of American national football team". And I dont see why this article should break the common naming style, the New Zealand national rugby union team for example was moved away from All Blacks to fit the MOS for national teams, so why should this article be alllowed to? It clearly goes against WP:FOOTY chandler ··· 14:07, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm aware of the naming convention of the WikiProject Football, however, that is a violation of official Wikipedia policy, specifically WP:NAME. The page should be given its most common name, which is German national team (maybe Germany's national team), but certainly not Germany national team. I also don't understand the big problem; redirects will point every link to the right place anyway. EnemyOfTheState_|talk 14:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The problem is if one article "wants to be special" it opens the flood gates. And a move like this should've been taken up at WP:FOOTY when it was done, and the reasons for the name conventions would probably be, this team is not representing the German people or the German language, but the country Germany, there are many "ethnic Germans" or what one would call them, not eligible for the team, now they might support the team, but it is still only representing Germany in that sense. Now if you feel the naming of all articles are fine, sure. "Country's national [sport] team" might be a better choice (I know that's the sv.wiki name convention), but that should be taken up wiki-wide not just having inconsistently named articles. chandler ··· 17:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It might have been a good idea to bring this discussion to the WikiProject Football. However, when the page title was brought up during the featured article process, there was no time for debates about a potential overhaul of the national football team naming convention. Also, I'm not involved in that wiki project and I have no interest to challenge the current standard and get caught up in endless discussions about such a rather trivial matter. I just wanted to bring this article to featured status. I'm certain official Wikipedia policy, such as Wikipedia:Naming conventions, outranks any agreements made on a wiki project. I don't see this as a big problem worth arguing about. The redirect will point everyone to the right place. Plus, this page is certainly not the only article to deviate from the naming convention. The articles for the United States and Canada break the convention even twice by having "men's" and "soccer" in their title. EnemyOfTheState_|talk 16:32, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I took the issue to WP:FOOTY. I find your arguments that there was no time for debates to be inherently weak, and I also do not particularly like your line of arguing calling the issue trivial. You admit you are not involved in the WP that set up the naming convention that led to this issue here, but you did not consider taking it to the discussion page of one of the two WPs that are concerned with the article. This is, in my humble opinion, not a very good style, not to mention the fact that you moved the article here mere hours after it had been moved to the Germany variant without at least a) contacting the user who moved the article or b) discussing the issue here. I also cannot find a reference to the article name "Germany women's national football team" being an issue on the FAC page. Besides: The fact that this article is not the only deviant is like saying "I'm not the only one who exceeds speed limits" - it is an argumentative fallacy if I've ever seen one. I hope I'm not coming across to cross, but I'm a bit disturbed. I'm sure you meant no harm, and neither do I.No offense is meant or intended by this here post. Madcynic (talk) 20:41, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to make my point here one last time.

1. Most importantly, "Germany national team" is grammatically dubious, and it's not the common term in English-language media (AP, BBC, NYT, FIFA), thus a violation of official Wikipedia policy, per WP:NAME.
2. What the team supposedly represents or plays under is irrelevant; that's contestable and therefore original research. It should not be used to support one title over another.
3. The article title was brought up during the FAC (see here under "Gawky title") by User:Tony1 and User:Elcobbola, and so I moved the page to its current location.
4. More viewed articles like United States men's national soccer team also violate this convention, and I'm not aware of any problems because of that. In fact, there was a discussion on Talk:United States men's national soccer team, in which a similar request to move the page was denied.
5. I fail to see what actual practical problems arise because of the name of the page, considering redirects are in place. This seems to be an entirely philosophical debate (WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY).

That's really all I can say about it. EnemyOfTheState_|talk 22:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

[unindent] Now listen: Other pages violating WP:FOOTY naming policy are not an argument. The FA candidacy you linked to is an old one, when the FAC failed and even there, there is opposition to the move to German. Your accusing the editor of moving this page to Germany... of doing so in spite of the discussion here seems to ignore the fact that you are the only editor here supporting the German variant. If at all, the move to Germany was done because of the discussion here. The practical problem arising is that violating agreed consensus threatens to become a norm rather than an exception, thus making the consensus irrelevant. I find your style of discussing the issue rather tiring, I have to say, but I'm not entirely sure how this could end other than in a stalemate, because voting is evil. My suggestion is to go along with the current (Germany) title, obviously. By the way, I suspect the actual common name of the team might be Germany, but that is hard to prove via internet research due to the massive amount of hits. Madcynic (talk) 09:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

The FAC never failed, it got restarted because User:Domiy hijacked it. Also, there was no opposition to move the page at all, four editors including myself supported it. Of course I'm the only one here defending the old title, because it's not a popular article and I get overrun by members of the football project defending their naming convention. However my position really is not that obscure; the move was suggested by well-known WP copy editor User:Tony1 and supported by Commons admin User:Elcobbola. The reason I bring up the U.S. team article is simply to point out (a) deviating titles don't create any problems, (b) there was a similar discussion and a vote on its talk page, and a move was rejected. Apparently the names of articles where more opposition can be expected are not a problem for WP:FOOTY. Even editor's of the German men's article recognize the title as awkward and grammatically incorrect and they use "German national football team" for the bold title. EnemyOfTheState_|talk 20:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

World Cup record

Shouldn't the record for the 2003 WC read 5 wins, 1 draw, no loss, as the final against Sweden went into extra-time? Madcynic (talk) 11:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

FIFA recognizes victories after extra time as wins, only results after a penalty shootout are considered draws. EnemyOfTheState_|talk 16:24, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Is "team" singular or plural?

This seems to be a common dilemma with sports articles here on Wikipedia, and I suppose a case could be made for either. But there's no case to be made for inconsistency I don't think; "team" has to be either singular or plural throughout. Consider "At the 1995 Women's World Cup in Sweden, the German team lost against the Scandinavian hosts, but still succeeded in winning their group by beating Japan and Brazil " vs. "The German national team is one of the most successful in women's football". It may perhaps be that the best way in some cases is to avoid the ambuguity be rewriting, such as in ""At the 1995 Women's World Cup in Sweden, the German team lost against the Scandinavian hosts, but still progressed to the next round by beating Japan and Brazil"? George Ponderevo (talk) 01:25, 1 February 2012 (UTC)