Talk:2011/Archive 5

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FL-class

Would this article be suitable for FLC?

1. Prose. It features professional standards of writing. Y I agree.
2. Lead. It has an engaging lead that introduces the subject and defines the scope and inclusion criteria. N Very short lead.
3. Comprehensiveness.

   • (a) It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing at least all of the major items and, where practical, a complete set of items; where appropriate, it has annotations that provide useful and appropriate information about the items.  Half done, it has most of it, but a few gaps.
   • (b) In length and/or topic, it meets all of the requirements for stand-alone lists; does not violate the content-forking guideline, does not largely duplicate material from another article, and could not reasonably be included as part of a related article.Y I agree.

4. Structure. It is easy to navigate and includes, where helpful, section headings and table sort facilities. Y I agree.
5. Style. It complies with the Manual of Style and its supplementary pages.

   • (a) Visual appeal. It makes suitable use of text layout, formatting, tables, and colour; and a minimal proportion of items are redlinked. Y I agree.
   • (b) Media files. It has images and other media, if appropriate to the topic, that follow Wikipedia's usage policies, with succinct captions. Non-free images and other media satisfy the criteria for the inclusion of non-free content and are labeled accordingly. Half done. No pictures in the 'Events' section, but fine images in the 'Deaths' section.

6. Stability. It is not the subject of ongoing edit wars and its content does not change significantly from day to day., except in response to the featured list process. Y I agree.

   And, the one other (not listed):

7. Citations. Every statistic must be cited adequately with reliable sources. Half done, the Deaths section has no references at all. I know that the major figures, like Steve Jobs or Muammar Gaddafi would have a lot around their deaths, but "minor" figures comapred to them like, Nikolai Andrianov or William Lipscomb...

Would it be able to make FL-Class through WP:FLC?

– Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)} 20:51, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps 2010 would be more suitable for such an attempt. Or this one at the start of the next year when it can be said it's complete. As for references, you might want to check Deaths in 2011, where every listing comes with a reference. None of the persons listed here is a minor figure in any meaning of the word, so this is a non-issue. — Yerpo ^Eh? 08:29, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I would call it an epic fail on stability. Uninformed/controversial changes are made and reverted on pretty much a daily basis. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be Good Faith Edits and Vandalism, which are not included in the Edit warring part? – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)} 16:55, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Silvio Berlusconi resignation

I have seen this edit reverted by DerbyCountyinNZ (talk · contribs):

November 13 – The former EU commissioner Mario Monti is asked to form Italy's next government following the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi amid the country's escalating debt crisis.

It was reverted with this edit summary:

Undid revision 460507057 by Wjfox2005 (talk)Rvt. Local politics.

I understand that WHO forms Italy's next government is local politics, but the EVENT of Berlusconi's resignation BECAUSE of the European sovereign debt crisis is NOT local politics.
WHY?

1. The European sovereign debt crisis is, as Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany, said, the biggest crisis in Europe since The Second World War.[1]
2. He resigned amid that crisis, after budget reforms were passed.[2]
3. Italy is the EU country with the most debt.[3]
4. Even AMERICANS are bothered.[4]

I would like to see this added onto 2011. – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)} 16:53, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

crystal ball until Italy economy defaults on obligations which i am quite confident will happen but by then everyone will have forgotten as usual to have noted the day berlisconi resigned - typical for the endless totalitarian behavior associated with keeping this article nearly devoid of any but the most prominant events to the point of neutering the article to death - and i will say again that there have been 5 major medical discoveries this year and not a single one is mentioned in this article--70.162.171.210 (talk) 00:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Is there anything unusual about the prime minster of Italy resigning? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:01, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

That's not really the question. The question is whether there is international significance to this particular resignation. Tough call. Obviously the European debt crisis is an international event with far reaching consequences. So was/is the Arab Spring, but this article is not for the daily blow-by-blow of either event. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:04, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

UK News

There is a lack of a British News that has happened throughout the year, the most prominent being the England Riots and there are also key events such as the death of two Red Arrows Pilots this year, the last time a Red Arrow died was 1988. Please add any other suggestions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drumncars1996 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

all of the items you are want to add have already been veted and by consensus, declined thru insufficent notability--70.162.171.210 (talk) 05:47, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I think 2011 in the United Kingdom is the page you are looking for. — Yerpo ^Eh? 16:53, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes it is, thank you. - Drumncars1996 —Preceding undated comment added 22:22, 25 November 2011 (UTC).

Alfred Hilbe

Is he worthy for a mention in this page even though he was a head of state?, his English entry consists of only one line! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ifore2010 (talk) 14:15, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Jani Lane's Death?

Jani Lane was the frontman of 80's hair band Warrant and died Aug. 11 2011. He was born in 1964. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.67.183 (talk) 13:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

It's taken 3 months for him to reach the WP:RY minimum. At the time of his death he had only 2 foreign language article, both clones of the English one, one had no references at all and the other had only his webpage and myspace page as references. Hardly an indication that he was sufficiently notable for inclusion here. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 18:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Death of Dev Anand on Dec 4th, 2011

The young man of Indian Bollywood died in London on 4th December. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dev_Anand — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puneet1011 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

His non-English articles do not indicate that he is sufficiently internationally notable for inclusion. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 03:13, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Death of Jagjit Singh on Oct 10th, 2011

The "Ghazal King" of Indian music died on October 10th, 2011. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagjit_Singh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puneet1011 (talk • contribs) 02:38, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

His non-English articles do not indicate that he is sufficently internationally notable for inclusion. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 03:14, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

November events

Usually by now there would be some notable events for november, since the month is just about complete. Just wondering when the information will be added to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryn Morgan (talk • contribs) 00:16, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not a case of "filling in" a section just for the sake of it. Something notable has to happen. So far it appears that nothing that can be considered to be of international and historical notability (as required for inclusion in this article) has happened. C'est la vie. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 01:46, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Derby you are being way to overzealous. The original goal of the policy for exclusion was to stop articles from becoming obscenely large, there might not have been any political such events that happened in November, but there are some science ones that might be appropriate for this article. --134.153.102.154 (talk) 18:24, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Do specify them, if there are. The most notable, I think, was the Mars Science Laboratory launch, but it isn't exactly a cornerstone in Mars exploration. Still, could be added, I suppose. — Yerpo ^Eh? 08:17, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I was actually thinking the Metallic microlattice, lightest material ever known invention was the biggest science story of November. Including big Chemistry finds are often underrepresented in recent years articles. --Kuzwa (talk) 20:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Now let's see if there can be some notable events for december. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.146.140 (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Eradication of Rinderpest

Surely this should be added under August 8? It's only the second disease ever eradicated....GuzzyG (talk) 15:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind.. I've just seen how much overzealous some people are on this list, so don't bother, no wonder this page is so skinny.GuzzyG (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

overzealous here i am the first to argue and have many times but even this has already been vetted here and is again --- EXCLUDE--68.231.15.56 (talk) 08:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

if something is this far back dont you think that it would be good to look back in the archives and find the old discusssion first--68.231.15.56 (talk) 08:09, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry for offending anyone, i'm new here and didn't read the archives. Sorry, i now understandGuzzyG (talk) 08:49, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

second photo after taylor

what should be the second photo after taylor for month of march deaths? - i say Geraldine Ferraro, she has 213 cited references --68.231.15.56 (talk) 06:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I'd prefer Alberto Granado for the sake of balance - with G. Ferraro, it's 4 Americans in a row. The difference in the number of cited references reflects the western bias rather than importance, I think. — Yerpo ^Eh? 07:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I'd prefer a non-American, as mentioned by Yerpo, 4 Americans is too biased. Nikolai Andrianov won 15 Olympic medals (3rd all-time), of which 12 were in individual events (2nd all-time and leading male) which makes him my preference, but I'd go with Granado if that would help achieve consensus. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 10:27, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I suggested Granado because he has the best and most conveniently-sized portrait available. Andrianov's would stretch down somewhere to July (or would look very poor if cropped) and for most of the others, we don't have free portraits. — Yerpo ^Eh? 14:57, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

If we were going only by how nice their picture looks I would definitely say Ferraro, But if it is one or the other of the other suggestions, yeah, the photo of Adrianov is terrible, I can't imagine how we could incorporate that. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:35, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

UK Riots

The UK Riots started on the 4th August 2011, involved London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc. Was wondering why it was not on here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NiallPVFC (talk • contribs) 19:15, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Because 2011 is for internationally notable events. The UK riots belong in 2011 in the United Kingdom. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 19:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Something doesn't addup...

Bin Laden is said to be dead on May 2nd and the cite says Obama announced him dead a day early. Fix please? 71.180.171.44 (talk) 17:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

2 May is correct as per his article. The cite has 1 May as that was the local time for the country of origin. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 18:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Jobs Death

Should Steve's death be listed under Events? It was a pretty giant event this year... SwimFellow (talk) 17:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No, consensus here is that his entry in the Deaths section is sufficient. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 18:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Ryan Dunn Is Not on the list of 2011 Deaths?!

Or is he not notable enough? :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.3.80.98 (talk) 04:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

discussed endlessly already --- EXCLUDE--68.231.15.56 (talk) 04:58, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Very well known actor/person. If this isn't notable i don't know what is.GuzzyG (talk) 06:07, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

"Very well known"? In the US maybe, not the rest of the world. Which is why he belongs in 2011 in the United States, not here. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 06:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Jackass is VERY well known, i'm in Australia and everyone here knew him, not just the US. Their movies were popular worldwide, plus he has 16 language articles of him, not in English. He's even more known then some of the people here already. But what can ya do, if you don't know him no-one does, right?GuzzyG (talk) 06:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm in Australia. Never heard of him. Never seen Jackass. The previews put me off. Slapstick died 70 years ago. (Or should have.) HiLo48 (talk) 06:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

All because you don't know him doesn't mean the majority doesn't, that's the point. I don't know anyone who knows of a Hungarian footballer or a Indian painter, does that mean they shouldn't be on the list? No. (they already are though) This guy is noticeable, i don't really care though as i've found out these year articles plus a few others are just the opinions of overzealous editors.GuzzyG (talk) 06:56, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Rather than attacking, and posting silly things like "i'm in Australia and everyone here knew him" (which just screamed out to be refuted), you could perhaps go hunting for some evidence. My interest was really just in countering your absolutism. HiLo48 (talk) 07:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

As for evidence, at the time of his death, he was so "well known" that hardly anyone outside of English Wikipedia bothered to write anything about him. This is the criterion we use for evaluating. All because some anonymous under the nickanme GuzzyG knows him doesn't mean that majority does. The show was somewhat noticeable as a whole, Dunn, as an individual, wasn't. — Yerpo ^Eh? 07:16, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy to accept the decision of not adding him, however you best hop to it and remove the 2006 entry for Steve Irwin's death then... I'm pretty sure "hardly anyone outside of English Wikipedia bothered to write anything about him." yet he was added to the Deaths on the 2006 page. Perhaps some consistency in your criterion is required. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.185.2 (talk) 10:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry for offending anyone, i'm new here and didn't read the archives. Sorry, i now understand.GuzzyG (talk) 08:16, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

images again

So, now that Kim Jong Il has passed, a photo of him has been added to the deaths section. I think that is as it should be, but on my browser the formatting is pushing that image down into the "Nobel Prize winners" section. Of course anyone who read the caption (or had the slightest idea who he was) would realize it was a spillover, but still... Maybe we should just have one image like most other months, and at this point I would have to say Kim certainly had the most international notability out of all the notable persons who have died this month. As such I have gone ahead and removed the other image. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:32, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. One image is sufficient. A second should only be included if it does not break the display. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 17:58, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Why is CE before AD?

Why is the term "Common Era" placed before the term "Anno Domini?" "AD" is tremendously more common in use than CE and "AD" comes before "CE" alphabetically. There doesn't seem to be any prohibition to changing this in Wikipedia:Recent years. And it appears that the whole first section is locked without explanation. Is this just another instance of Christian bashing by the predominantly pagan Wikipedia editors? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romans9:11 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

When making an accusation of bias, it is usually a good idea not to make your own prejudicial remarks at the same time. I happen to agree that A.D. is quite obviously more common than C.E. in the English speaking world, but muddying the waters with accusations is unlikely to help bring this discussion to a satisfactory resolution. It is not just the first section but the enrtire article that is semi protected. This is only because we were getting uniformed/vandalistic additions to this article several times a day for several months, it is not related to this issue. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:20, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Why does it even matter? It's just like asking: "When I type 'C' in the searchbox in Wikipedia, why does Canada come first and China is further down the list? Is Wikipedia being racist?" These frivilous points should not even be brought up. Whenaxis (talk) 02:23, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Miss USA

Is Alyssa Campanella's winning of Miss USA crown significant enough to turn up on this page? If Miss USA could be mentioned here, shouldn't we mention the winners of similar titles from other countries as well? Netha Hussain (talk) 17:06, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

As per WP:RY, annual awards do not merit inclusion. This article is in any case for international events which therefore excludes national beauty contests. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 18:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Not saying that Miss USA is important enough to garner reputation on this page. But if what User:DerbyCountyinNZ says is true about WP:RY, why is that the annual Noble Prize(s) appear on this page? Whenaxis (talk) 02:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Because the Nobel Prizes are one of the things explicitly stated in WP:RY to include on year pages. Canuck_{My page}^{89 (talk)}, 10:57, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Before someone uses some of the phrases above to include Miss World and Miss Universe competition results, awards which are either annual or not international are (usually) not included. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Aw, c'mon, everyone knows the Nobel Prizes go to whoever looks best in the swimsuit competition. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:56, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the mental image. Ugh. — Yerpo ^Eh? 19:39, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I didn't see the Noble Prize section. Apologies. Whenaxis (talk)

Henry Cooper again.

I'm not sure, but I though it was bad form to add to archived stuff. I've readded him as even though he was never world Champion he was Commonwealth and European Champion as well as the only Boxer to recieve a British or Papal Knight Hood (On which page he is listed as a notable member of the order), the Only British Boxer to win three Lonsdale Belts, The first man to win BBC sports personality of the year twice and the only one of the three people who's done this who isn't an F1 driver but most of all I think he should be here as he knocked down Cassius Clay who Cheated against him. (Morcus (talk) 03:26, 23 December 2011 (UTC))

Edit request on 25 December 2011

December 19 - North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il was pronounced dead 67.85.228.82 (talk) 02:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

He is in the Deaths section, that is sufficient. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 04:01, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

if it had been winston churchill, head of a democracy at a key point in humanities struggle against gas chambering nazis, then yes, but a puppet communist of a satilite state, a proxy for chinese agression, who are you kidding?--68.231.15.56 (talk) 09:12, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Very few deaths are in the "Events" section. I doubt that Winston's would be. On the other hand "Il" might be appropriate as (1) the announcement of his death was days after his actual death, and (2) the death of an rogue absolute dictator, even that of a small (not satellite or proxy) state, might be of international significance. Nonetheless, I don't think it appropriate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:13, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

I've closed this request, as it does not appear to be supported by consensus. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 10:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 December 2011

Dev Anand : Indian film actor, writer, director and producer known for his work in Hindi cinema, died on 3 December 2011.

67.246.33.98 (talk) 23:26, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Well known in India, but not internationally as required for inclusion in this article. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 23:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 January 2012

In the 2011 obits, American singer, songwriter Phoebe Snow, b.1950 and died in April, is omitted.

Scaddle (talk) 20:10, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

 Not done See WP:RY for the inclusion criteria used on this page, which is a much higher standard than WP:N. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Occupy the world

Shouldn't there be a heading for it on October 15 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.122.255.226 (talk) 05:36, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Why? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:55, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Becouse occupy movement seems to be a important phenomenon in current social life? Either October 15, July 30 (Occupy Dataran, first but obscure occupation) or September 17 (OWS) should be marked. Not all of those dates, but at least one. It seems highly unlikely that beginning of Occupy Movement will not be seen as one of most important events during Fall of 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.207.117.121 (talk) 17:13, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Cite? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:52, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

"Important phenomenon"? Not really. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 17:59, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

You don't think such police presence don't suggest something important is happening? http://occupylosangeles.org/?q=node/2442 Add persistence despite numerous abuses. Protests in multitude of places for several weeks are not worth mentioning? 23:22, 30 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.207.117.121 (talk)

Protests occurred in over 30 countries on six continents on October 15th, something must be said. That is worse than leaving out the Russian Revolution in 1917 or March of Selma in 1965. Millions of people around the world in almost every major city were involved in a movement calling for changes and that isn't important? I think wikipedia has the wrong priorities if that is the case. Not to mention it is the largest movement asking for a single change in the history of the world. No movement has ever been on six continents before at this amount, not even the socialist challenge as Howard Zinn puts it in the early 1900s. Stidmatt (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

If you think Occupy the World is as notable as the Russian Revolution you are sadly lacking in perspective. The Occupy Movement has achieved precisely Nothing in the way of any actual change of legislation in any country. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 07:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, comparison with the Russian Revolution is silly. But something big did happen, whose ultimate impact is as yet unknown, and Wikipedia's rules against synthesis and original research and demands for sources are getting in the way. No individual protest on its own (except maybe Occupy Wall Street) is significant. It's the sum of the protests that's notable. Almost everyone outside places where they censor the news is aware of it. For Wikipedia not to attempt to describe the movement as a phenomenon of 2011 is quite remiss. If the ultimate result is big, we wouldn't want to have ignored the start. HiLo48 (talk) 07:17, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The neatrality of the Occupy Movement article is disputed which probably means the claims of its importance and impact are being exaggerated. If and when there is some actual historically significant result of the protests (and this would need to be in more than one country to be regarded as international) then it might be included. Until then it is a widespread but otherwise insignificant nuisance which will likely be forgotten in a few years except by those directly involved. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 07:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

There's far too much POV in that post for it to be a helpful contribution to this discussion. HiLo48 (talk) 07:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

And your claim that Wikipedia rules are censoring the discussion is NPOV??? DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 07:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely. Saying that the rules make it difficult to consider this item says absolutely nothing about my opinion on whether it should be here or not. My opinion is that it's unfortunate that we cannot discuss it properly. HiLo48 (talk) 09:52, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

What if it's simply too early to discuss it properly? Is it really so hard to understand that this page will still be here and open to editing in, say, two years when and if this event proves important? You talk as if what is on this page now was cast in stone. — Yerpo ^Eh? 11:29, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a good point. Thanks. I still think Wikipedia has a problem reporting linked activities that are distributed over time and/or space. HiLo48 (talk) 21:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

True, it's rather difficult to present long-term processes in a list of dates. Maybe we should think about introducing a new heading for "Ongoing events" (or something similar) with a brief summary of such events (Arab spring, Iraq war etc. for last year). — Yerpo ^Eh? 14:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Mohamed Bouazizi

January 4 – Mohamed Bouazizi, Tunisian street vendor (b. 1984) - nominated for INCLUSION by exception to WP:RY

I have the same problem with medical information that constantly gets removed from the year article. Other editors say that you cannot prove that the new discovery has had any effect, well, flat-out, hands down, the tragic end of life of Mohamed Bouazizi has had a proven effect; how can you say differently now?--68.231.15.56 (talk) 10:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

From the earlier discussion (what little there was):

This was the guy who set himself on fire, sparking the Tunisian revolution and some would say the subsequent protests, including in Egypt. We are including the Egyptian protests in the article, and he has significantly more than the 9 required foreign articles. I think the addition is certainly worth serious consideration (perhaps in future years he will be viewed similarly to Tank Man, despite the major differences in the surrounding events).

Also: the edit that was undone regarding Bouazizi's death misstated the date he died - it was January 4, not January 20. --Jatkins (talk - contribs) 18:42, 14 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.15.56 (talk)

The only notable event in his life was his death, which I don't think is sufficient for inclusion under the "Deaths" section. However, that event is widely considered as the spark that ignited the revolution, so it might be included within events for January. As the situation was, it's rather far-fetched to say that without him, events would have unfolded very differently, so considering the whole picture, Bouazizi as a person is still quite insignificant. Just look at all the articles - they all talk about the fateful event and its consequences, there's almost nothing about the man himself. — Yerpo ^Eh? 11:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree. He was not notable (as required for inclusion in the Deaths section), whether his death is notable (as required for inclusion in the Events section) is debatable, I think not. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 20:13, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

That's the whole reason why he is important. He ended his otherwise "insignificant" life in one very important act. He needs to be in this article. There is no requirement that people included in the Deaths section have "lots of notable events in their lives." Wrad (talk) 19:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Besides the fact that WP:RY is being misread quite badly here (the words "notable" and "notability" are nowhere to be found in the guidelines for inclusion of births and deaths), besides the fact that Time magazine, the New York Times, and many other news sources have established his notability, and besides the fact that his name was shouted in the streets throughout the Arab Spring, besides the fact that he has been named person of the year by the Times in London, besides the fact that he was awarded the 2011 Sakharov Prize for Independent Thought by the European Parliament, and besides the fact that people in Algeria, Egypt, Italy, Saudi Arabia, and the Netherlands (that's three continents and five countries, if you're counting) have immolated themselves in a similar manner in protest, often in directly-stated mimicry of Bouazizi, folks, the rule is ten foreign language articles. The guy has 33. It would be an "exception" to the rules not to include him. Enough said. Wrad (talk) 20:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Dev Anand

I removed

• December 3 – Dharam Dev Pishorimal Anand, better known as Dev Anand, was an Indian film actor, writer, director and producer known for his work in Hindi cinema. Part of the Anand family, he co-founded Navketan Films in 1949, with his elder brother Chetan Anand. (b. 1923)

Not only is this entry much longer than any in the deaths, there is little evidence of his notability outside India. The article looks like a bad translation from Hindi, even before his death, but there were 12 languages in place, so it's not obviously a violation of WP:RY. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

See #Edit request on 28 December 2011 above. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

event categorisation?

Hi all, didn't want to ruffle any feathers by just removing things, but I've noticed there are quite a few entries on the 2011 page that are categorised with "Arab Spring". while I realise that this is a significant on-going thing, I don't believe that entries on year pages should be categorised similar to that. the Arab spring should be linked on all the actual pages related to each event and is therefore unnecessary to have on this 2011 (or any other year for that matter) page. It is the equivalent of categorising Osama's death as "USA's War on Terror: Osama Bin Laden killed" or "USA's War on Terror: American troops pull out of Iraq" etc.

thoughts anyone? again, I realise this may be a sensitive topic, I'm not arguing about whether the Arab spring is important or not, just using it as an example of unnecessary categorisation of year page entries Whitehatnetizen (talk) 03:07, 5 January 2012 (UTC)