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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Asif Qasımov (talk | contribs) at 18:50, 11 February 2012 (→New name: argument against Google search results). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

22:02 7 January 2011 version is really written in "mediocre" English but this is not enough to remove it to show incorrect information and misinform people. There is no chauvinistic content in it. Reasons to remove version 18:29 7 January 2011 are folow: 1) --- and Azerbaijan was a part of Czarist Russia--- this information is incorrect. Czarist Russia has Caucasian Tatars in South Caucasus, but name Azerbaijan was called in 1918 independence (after collapse of Czarist Russia). 2) After the violent seven-day Pogrom of Armenians in Baku--- Armenian community of Azerbaijan fled the country --- this information is incorrect too. It can insult many Armenian people lived in Baku in past, because almost all Armenians remained in Baku in 13 January of 1990 died of massacre, they couldn't fled the country. ASALA7.08.1982 (talk) 19:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article consists of facts only, and everything can be easyly proved.

As mentioned in the revert summary, this is not an Armenian forum website. The article is about a region of Baku which was unofficially called Armenikend. Moreover, it was never part of the Old City. Tuscumbia (talk) 19:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's right, Baku_Old_City binding to the image is removed. But any groundless revert of the right version will automatically add new Links and new facts to this "POV". ASALA7.08.1982 (talk) 19:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


ATTENTION: words --- and Azerbaijan was a part of Czarist Russia --- is a deliberate misinformation it need to be removed. ASALA7.08.1982 (talk) 19:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I disappointed with the policy of reverting veracious editions on WIKIPEDIA and helping to some users who neglicting historical facts. [Following edition] is remaining as a single true version of this article which is spoiled with help of the people who threating with blocking those users who telles no lie. Current version giving wrong picture on this issue. Its [true edition] was forcibly [falsified] and definitely so will be in future. ASALA7.08.1982 (talk) 19:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The History section relies solely on Armenian-tied Sumgait.info website and presently uses POV language. Needs some cleanup. Twilightchill t 13:42, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The added text seems to have been fueled by personal vendetta. Looks like, when emotional, the editor ASALA makes the text bold where he wants to highlight specific lines and links other lines to nationalistic websites. Last I heard, this was an encyclopedia, not a nationalist forum. Reverting. Tuscumbia (talk) 16:41, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Repeated undiscussed name moves for articles is against Wikipedia rules. After your first name-change was reverted, any subsequent changes to this article are automatically considered to be potentually controversial, so there is a requirement that they must be proposed and discussed. Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 19:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There seem to be four main varients to the name: Armenikent, Ermenikent, Armenikend, Ermenikend. In a Google search (with -Wikipedia) and excluding sited Google says are duplipcates, "Armenikent" gets 11 hits, one in English, "Ermenikent" gets 5 hits, one in English, "Armenikend" gets 62 hits (but a number are from a message board user named Armenikend) with at least 5 articles in English and a fair number of photos of the actual district and that are called Armenikend, "Ermenikend" gets 20 hits, of which 2 are articles in English. Based on that, Armenikend seems to be the most suitable name. For example, here is a completely neutral and specialist source on Soviet architecture that uses "Armenikend" http://www.metropolismag.com/story/20070620/radical-moment Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 20:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The word Armenikend derives from Azerbaijani word Ermənikənd which they called the quarter of Baku where many Armenians lived. If you search Ermənikənd you will get 559 hits. It's not like an official name of the settlement. It's what the locals called it due to big number of Armenians living at a specific region of Baku. Tuscumbia (talk) 20:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Several problems with your analysis. Firslty, this is the English-language Wikipedia, not the Azeri Wikipedia. So the article will never be called Ermənikənd. If a common usage exists in English-language sources then that name should be used, I have given an example of such a source, and Armenikend has the most English-language sources. Secondly, the alphabet you use to spell "Ermənikənd" did not even exist when the district was inhabited by the Armenians that gave it its name. As you yourself say, the district no longer exists as such, so there has never been a district named "Ermənikənd". Thirdly, in Baku in the Soviet period it was the Russian language and alphabet that had the most importance amongst its inhabitants: that will be the source of the "Armenikend" varient of the name. Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 20:43, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, am I right in saying that the formal name of the district was the "17th district of Baku"? (I came across that name in one of the sources I found in my Google search, but I have now lost the source.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scribblescribblescribble (talk • contribs) 20:49, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Meowy, where do you see me requesting a change of name to Ermənikənd. I said the current transliteration Ermenikend derives from the Azerbaijani word Ermənikənd. The alphabet did exist even before that, the Cyrillic was forced onto Azerbaijan during the subsequent period. But the alphabet has nothing to do with what the arear was unofficially called among the locals. It was called in Azerbaijani and the Azerbaijani alphabet transliterates the name as Ermenikend. And no, Armenians never gave it the name Armenkend. If it were up to them, they would have called it "Armeniberd" or something. Ermenikend (Armenian village, village populated by Armenians, etc) is the name given by the Azerbaijani locals. Tuscumbia (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, I don't know about "17th district". You'd have to ask someone who lives in Baku. Tuscumbia (talk) 20:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you cannot be civil, I will not discuss things with you. Your sock-puppet insinuation is both uncivil and off-topic. There seem to be more specialist English-language sources that use Armenikent than Ermenikent. Unless you can disprove that, then that is it, end of discussion. Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 20:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We both know who Meowy is :) Anyway, I told you already, the name derives from the Azerbaijani word Ermənikənd, originating from Azerbaijanis unofficially calling the part of the city on the basis of ethnic minority. Tuscumbia (talk) 21:03, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia's naming conventions has told you that when a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it [1]. And (as I've told you already) there seem to be more specialist English-language sources that use Armenikent than Ermenikent. Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 21:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Where do you see me disputing an English name should be used? Ermenikend is the English transliteration and name of what was originally called by the locals. Armenikend derives from what Armenians choose to call it. Tuscumbia (talk) 21:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This has nothing to do with alleged transliteration issues. I'll repeat, in bold this time, Wikipedia's naming conventions tells us that when a widely accepted English name exists for a place, we should use it and there seem to be more specialist English-language sources that use Armenikent than Ermenikent. Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Who says then exist?! For God's sakes, read and analize what you intend to write first. The source you provided is based on transliteration from Russian. The word Armenikend was not just invented out of nowhere. It was transliterated from Russian. Russians call it Armenikent, when the original word is Ermenikend deriving from the Azerbaijani word. Do you comprehend? Tuscumbia (talk) 23:03, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I don't think eyewitness of events in Baku, are nationalists. But facts showing that this people on the contrary received the mass beatings to death exactly by nationalists, mostly form nearest Azerbaijani districts. Sumgait.info, as you see, is not a single reference to the stuff. It will be some other links though. Armenikend is a single acceptable name for this article first of all because vast majority of townsfolk of Baku before 1990 called this district exactly as ARMENIKEND. I've noticed also some users tryed to impose opinion as if Czarist Russia has Azerbaijan or Azerbaijani people in south Caucase. It is nonsence. Before 1918 this was people known to the world as CAUCASIAN TATARS. Later they adopted name of province in north Iran as own style of naming oneself. Connoisseur of Truth 23:08, 17 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ASALA7.08.1982 (talk • contribs) 
                               [version] is based on very dubious POV. Let's see them seriatim:
  • Azerbaijan was a part of Czarist Russia - must to be paraphrased as Caucasian Tatars lived in Czarist Russia, Azerbaijan was a name of a Persia's province only in Czarist Russia's period.
  • Eramnikend - this name used only 36% of Baku's population, for majority of Baku during existence of this informal name, the district was known as Armenikend.
  • Armenian community of Baku fled the country - this interpretation makes wrong picture on events entailed for disappearance of this informal name. 178.78.132.18 (talk) 17:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Dear HJ Mitchell. It is needless to promote to anti-armenian deletionists. 178.78.142.155 (talk) 11:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia must be reliable source of information. Mr HJ Mitchell it's second time you used your resources to help spreading LIE of azeri users that continuously neglict 3 points mentioned above. This is a INTENTIONAL OUT TO TWIST PEOPLE about 1990th events in Baku. This users systematicly neglicting any requests to show thir arguments in this talk page. Your actions are result of your preconception to Armenians and probably nationalistic minds. I'm sorry, but you being conducive to DECREASE OF WIKIPEDIA'S LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE. People thinking they can reach any goals by stopping somebody's mouth are very naive. 46.241.144.195 (talk) 07:09, 28 January 2011 (UTC).[reply]


Dear Mr. Golbez probably words like "bestially killed" seemed you unfitting to wikipedia's articles. But this is exactly what happened in Baku at events of 1990. Calling it something else means to lie. Also your belief still not enough reason to revert this article to edits by user 81.213.222.51 wich based on poor POV (in other words - LIE). 46.241.157.79 (talk) 15:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Here we go, in Google Books search there are

So, after this you have questions about the name?? In English, the most common name is Armenikend (the Russian version) and not Ermenikend (Azeri version). --Yerevanci (talk) 16:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First off, Google Books yields 80 results, not 4. Secondly, the name is given by the Azerbaijani Soviet authorities basing it on "Ermeni" - Armenian and "Kend" - village or quarter. So, I suggest you search with key words "Ermənikənd" in google as well. Tuscumbia (talk) 17:04, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No there are only 4 results, please search it this way: "Ermenikend" (in quotation marks) which shows only the results for the exact name. And the same for Armenikend. In English, the only acceptable name for the quarter is Armenikend.
Secondly, the name is given by the Azerbaijani Soviet authorities basing it on "Ermeni" - Armenian and "Kend" - village or quarter. - Any sources?? I know what it means. But the English name is Armenikend. It was never an official name. It was just a name given by people to reffer to the quarter where many Armenians lived.--Yerevanci (talk) 03:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, yes, the name was given by Azerbaijanis to the area where Armenians lived and yes the Azerbaijani name search yields more results than the one you propose. Tuscumbia (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:PLACE we have to search in English language sources. If you only search for English content Google gets 49 hits for Ermənikənd and 4110 hits for Armenikend. --vacio 22:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, Vacio and somewhat agree, but the point is that Ermenikend is the transliteration of the name in English from Azerbaijani, i.e. the original name given by Azerbaijanis. Tuscumbia (talk) 23:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is the ENGLISH Wikipedia, not Azerbaijani.--Yerevanci (talk) 00:48, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Right, per WP:PLACE we should use a widely accepted English name before translating an official or original name. --vacio 09:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Vacio, ok, but it's not even a widely accepted place since it doesn't exist and never really existed officially. It was just a name for quarter among the folk. Tuscumbia (talk) 16:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter if it officially existed or not. The fact is that in English, widely used name was Armenikend and not Ermenikend. Please do not mix this 2 problems together.--Yerevanci (talk) 22:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since Yerevanci has no justification and any credible arguement by changing Ermenikend into the false spelling of "Armenikend", it is simply a blatant vandalism of that user. The widely used name "Armenikend" is NOT the correct name in Azerbaijani. It is Ermenikend. This is the correct original name in that language and the other version, already stated, is a Russian corruption of the Azerbaijani name. The native names (and not corruptions in third languages) are used. If an English name does not exist for the original word (such as Ermenikend), than the original name is used, but NOT corruptions from third languages. And since this is the English language Wikipedia, the DIRECT English translation of the Azerbaijani name can be used. Saguamundi (talk) 02:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any sources, that Emrenikend is the most commonly used English name?? If not, then you're wrong. I gave the Google Books search results, which obviously shows that in Enlish, Ermenikend isn't used as often as Armenikend. It is the corruption of Azeri name, but that's not the point. "Nagorno-Karabakh" is also a coruption, in this case the English corruption of the Russian name ("Nagorniy" means "Mountaionous" in Russian) altough it is sometimes translated into Mountainous Karabakh, it's not the most common name in English. There isn't any grammar or any other spelling issue in here, the problem is which name in English is more commonly used. That's all. --Yerevanci (talk) 06:04, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Armeni" is 1) more distorted version of original name and 2) means nothing in any languages (English, Armenian and Russian). I think best choice is "Ermenikend" satisfying at least the first principle. What about Nagorno Karabakh, it is based on neutrality principle: there are Azeri and Armenian versions of Nagorno Karabakh toponim (Daghlig Garabagh and Artsakh). Each side rejects to call opposite version of toponim and they agreed with pre-conflict and Russian spelling version. Current situation on the Ermenikend is completely different, because there is not Armenian (or other) version of this quarter`s name. (Asif Qasımov (talk) 19:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]
For some lazy people, I will repeat again, in English language the word Ermenikend is not used, the only correct way in English in Armenikend, here are the results of both names in the Google Books search
There is no such “correct version” in English for Ermenikend. One particular user still does not get it, even though it has been explained in full detail above. The name “Armenikend” is a corruption of the Azerbaijani name Ermenikend, and putting the corruption citing the number it appears is baseless. Since we are talking about the Azerbaijani name that was put to that quarter, no one can choose the corruption of the name Ermenikend to their liking as it is the case with one user. And it does not matter what the corruption in Russian is, because the district is in Azerbaijan, not in Russia or Armenia (or in Nagorno-Karabakh) and the name is not contested unlike the names of settlements in Nagorno-Karabakh due to the de-facto versus the de-jure situation there. The user cannot choose another version of the name to his liking and make unilateral changes. Saguamundi (talk) 10:42, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question to Saguamundi: According to Wikipedia's, Article titles guidelines, it says "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. ", technically Armenikend is the right name because it has over 100 references in Google books while Ermenikend has about 2. So shouldn't we use Armenikend per the policies ? Nocturnal781 (talk) 11:46, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The issue here is the etymology of the name Ermenikend and its correct use.


Ermenikend has never had an English name. The Russian derived name of the Azeri name is not an English name, therefore it is wrong to claim it as an English name as well. Google search is not and cannot be the sole indicator of the use of a name. For etymological accuracy it is crucial to base it on the original name, and not on Google results and the derivations of the original name in other languages.


The nickname of the unofficial quarter Ermenikend was given by Azeris for that area during the Russian Tsarist era and was widely used and later adopted by the Russians who pronounced it Armenikend. Both Ermenikend and the Russian derived name are long forgotten and no longer in usage, because the quarter lost its ethnic Armenian character a long time ago, much earlier than the final exodus of the entire Armenian community of Baku and Azerbaijan in 1989-1990.


And unlike the place names in Nagorno-Karabakh, the names of Azeri towns and villages outside Nagorno-Karabakh under Armenian occupation and the original name Ermenikend are not in contention.
Vakaduka (talk) 14:10, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New name

Ermenikend → Armenikend – per WP:COMMONNAME.

--Yerevanci (talk) 23:10, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It turns out the sole argument supporting "Armenikend" is Google search results. It could not be reliable argument like in following pattern: The capital city of Georgia is called sometimes as Tiflis and sometimes as Tbilisi in German language. Google search gives following result:
BUT GERMAN WIKIPEDIA USES "TIFLIS" (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiflis). Enough repeating unreasonable argument!

Merging

I believe this poorly written and uncensored article should be deleted, and whatever useful information there is to be merged into Armenians of Azerbaijan article. --George Spurlin (talk) 03:26, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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