Talk:Bhagat Singh

Scripts

Well in my opinion, his name must only be in Punjabi, in both the Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi scripts. The Urdu and Nastaʿlīq scripts must be removed. According to WP:ENGLISH, if Romanization is insufficient for pronouncing a name, then the native script must be used. Even though he might have wrote and spoke in Urdu, he was a Punjabi. His mother tongue was Punjabi. As such, only Punjabi must be used. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 16:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Greetings Joyson! The script for Shahmukhi and Urdu is the same. The Nastaʿlīq is a particular font for the script (calligraphy). So if his name is only in Punjabi, it is the gurmukhi and shahmukhi (read urdu) scripts that'll stay. The devnagri script will need to be removed. I don't have any strong views on this, but I feel it would be better to maintain status quo. Tinpisa (talk) 20:17, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

And thanks a lot for pointing out the inconsistency in the date. I would like to request you to review the article critically, and correct the errors. I have already nominated the article for a GAN, and would like to follow it up till the article makes it as a FA. Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 20:21, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Welcome, and thanks for correcting me on the script! I concur. I will perform a spot check on this article on Friday. I might forget, so please remind me! Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 20:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions

• The lead is meant to be a summary of the article, and as such, it shouldn’t have many references. 4 or 5 will do!
• Find a significantly better quality version of the lead image.
• I have merged many small paras, and short sentences. Also, I have corrected some over-linking issues. For instance, common terms such as British, Sikhs, revolution, non-violence, firing squad, martyrdom, etc, need not be linked.
• I can’t understand what’s wrong with citation 70 and 71. I would appreciate it if someone reading this would take the time to fix them.
• The Randhir and Trilochan Singh garbage needs a page citation.
• The tagged info needs to be sourced.
• There is a contradiction about the village he was born in. Infobox says Khatkar Kalan, while the first section says Chak No. 105.
• Citation 23 is a Hindi source. Provide excerpts from Hindi with its accompanying English translation.
• Section “Hunger strike and Lahore conspiracy case”: It is mentioned that almost all the Indian nationalist leaders paid tribute to Jatin Das’ death. Who are the exceptions? These should be mentioned.
• Sub-section “Special Tribunal”: Name the Governor of Punjab, and his chief-secretary.
• Section “Execution”: Name the Superintendent of Police (political) Criminal Investigation Department.
• Section “Last wish”: Please state the names of those scholars who are doubtful of Randhir Singh’s claims.
• Likewise in “Saunders family” sub-section.
• Dramatic escape: Mention name of Durga Devi Vohra's husband, Bhagwati Charan Vohra.
• Song titles shouldn’t be italicized.
• There is an inconsistency in the dates. Both American and British variants are used here. Since you are the main contributor, i will leave it to you what variant of dates you prefer.
• I have also created some red links. Please do not delink them. These are notable figures. Someone else can create an entry on them.

Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 19:30, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Tried to clean up the {{cn}} tags as much as I could. Sources for the remaining ones need to found. Names are not available in the sources quoted. They are available in other sources (we know the years). There are two books by Rana in 2005. Have marked one (Chandrashekhar) to clarify. If there is a better way, please do tell me. Section 'Hunger strike'. Mahantma Gandhi is the notable exception (as I have not found any source that mentions his name). Don't have access to all the refs (esp the Trilochan Singh, Randhir Singh and the hindi ref) Will try to fix the pages and quote the text when I get hold of it. Thanks once again! Tinpisa (talk) 00:58, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Welcome! I plan on purchasing 'Photos Of The Gods': The Printed Image And Political Struggle In India (2004). There is a colorful artistic depiction of Bhagat Singh on page 126. I will scan it and upload it here. The photo was first published in 1940, so it should be in PD-India. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 11:28, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Its difficult to find photos of Bhagat Singh to post. Would a painting or picture (as you suggest in the book above), be OK for the article's lead? Tinpisa (talk) 13:43, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response. lol. You must not have seen the paintings, or else you would have never asked such a question. If a better quality version of the current image is unavailable, then it's all right. The current one will do. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 18:26, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Bhagat Singh/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk · contribs) 14:47, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: none found.

Linkrot: one found and fixed.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 14:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Following Gandhi's withdrawal of the movement after the violent murders of policemen Could you rephrase this, the meaning is unclear. Did Gandhi withdraw from the movement? Or did he stop the campaign?

   Rephrased to : after Gandhi called off the non-cooperation movement following the violent murders of policemen. Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

   He was 14 when, on February 20, 1921, the custodian of Nankana Sahib (the birthplace of Guru Nanak) and his men, fired on Akali Dal protesters. What did this have to do with the Young Revolutionary Movement?

   Suitably altered the sentence to make it chronologically correct. Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

   and became popular amongst the youth Which youth?

removed the word youth. Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

1. which had prominent leaders like "such as"

Followed your suggestion. Modified to such as. Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

1. '' A year later, upon being pressurised by his family, "upon being pressurised"?

Suitably reworded to A year later, pressurised by his family who wanted him to get married. Rechecked usage of word pressurise from Oxford dictionary(#2, with the comment (also pressurise)). Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

1. after about five weeks of his arrest

reworded to about five weeks after his arrest.Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

1. OK, the prose is nearly there but needs copy-editing throughout to improve the grammar which is somewhat lacking at the moment. When that has been done, I will look at prose and MoS again.

Thankyou for the review, Jez. I do hope these modifications clarify the meaning of the prose and meet the MoS guidelines. I eagerly await your comments. Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 07:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

1. Can we do something about the multiple use of the word "approvers". I have fixed two instances but it is clearly not good grammar.

   and issued an order intimating the accused missing preposition, "telling" would be better.

   Special Tribunal There is a lot of uneccessary repetion in this section. Please rewrite in a simpler summary style

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Adequately cited to RS, spot checks OK, no evidence of OR

   However I note that there are a large number of close paraphrases or straight cut and pastes from [2]. Thus I have to fail this until the article is rewritten, removing all such instances. Another copyright source whi has been copied is [3]

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Sufficiently good coverage

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   NPOV

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Stable

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Images licensed and tagged, captions OK

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   On hold for seven days for a thorough copy-edit. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

   Failed due to extensive copyright violations. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I've been assisting the nominator in this sort of area and have gone through the article. However, you are a better copyeditor than me, so you may wish to check. I await your thoughts. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 17:22, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Jez, for the review! The article has been given a thorough copy-edit by Grandiose and me. The sentences mentioned above have also been suitably reworded. I look forward to your comments. Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 21:28, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Copyvios

Duplication detector reports; [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. There may be more. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:05, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Rewrote parts from India Law Journal, and the other sources. Have not rewritten what has been reported by the sources as having been said by notable persons, and which are attributed in quotation. Please check. Tinpisa (talk) 09:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Attention Admins: Rewritten article

Hi! I have substantially re-written the article here. Would be grateful if this article is checked and moved to the main page and the copyvio tag is removed. Thanks.--Tinpisa (talk) 10:00, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Am writing afresh here, as advised by LeadSongDog here. Tinpisa (talk) 11:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you NortyNort for cleaning up the article. My effort is not needed. Admins are requested to delete it. Tinpisa (talk) 18:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

By the way, fix citation 39. It doesn't point to any reference. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 08:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. Tinpisa (talk) 18:38, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Arya samaji are hindu not sikhs

khalistan supported sikhs always repeat that "sikhs are not hindus" similarly "ARYA SAMAJI ARE HINDUS NOT SIKHS" the main aim of arya samaj is to spread hinduism and to ask people to reconvert back to hinduism. Bhagat singh was born into arya samaji family he never learn "KHALSA OR GURU TEACHINGS HE WENT TO ARYA SAMAJ SCHOOL in lahore TO LEARN VEDIC TEACHINGS" then how can anyone claim that he is sikh, many sikhs have hindu names that dont make them hindu similarly turban dont represent sikh his family was ardent arya samaji family.122.161.78.118 (talk) 08:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

His father was a staunch Arya Samaji, but Bhagat Singh himself was raised a Sikh! Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 11:33, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Arya Samaj was a concept by Swami Dayanand, which preached simplicity in the religion. It has been reported in the books on Bhagat Singh, that Bhagat's grandfather was personally initiated by Swami Dayanand into Arya Samaj. In this piece Bhagat Singh stated:

My grandfather under whose influence I was brought up is an orthodox Arya Samajist. An Arya Samajist is anything but an atheist. After finishing my primary education I joined the D.A.V. School of Lahore and stayed in its Boarding House for full one year. There, apart from morning and evening prayers, I used to recite “Gayatri Mantra” for hours and hours. I was a perfect devotee in those days.

Till the late 19th century, there were sanatan or ‘traditional’ Sikhs believing that they were followers of the Gurus, but had no problem with the Hindu traditions. The sanatan sikhs were predominantly conservative Sikhs, concerned with sustaining and protecting the society in which they had been nurtured; and permitted different Sikh identities and different modes of worship. Many sanatan sikhs adopted the Arya Samaj and were different from the radical group of 'Tat Khalsa' for whom Sikhs were no Hindus; Khalsa membership was the objective of all Sikhs and that the Khalsa membership required obedience to the Rehat. Arya Samaj was very widespread in Punjab, especially in the region around Lahore.

Stating that since Bhagat Singh's grandfather was an Arya Samaji, hence he was a Hindu and not a Sikh is just original research and synthesis. All sources point to Singh being a Sikh. If there are some verifiable and reliable sources that state his religion as Hinduism, please present them. Tinpisa (talk) 14:43, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Various Corrections

The lathi-charge was witnessed by Bhagat himself according to this source - http://archives.dawn.com/2007/09/26/ed.htm#4 Any comments or counter suggestions before I make the changes? - Ashubhalaa (talk) 16:58, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

This is another source that states that Bhagat Singh was present during the lathi charge. However, there are other sources like this that state that Singh was not present. Hence, it could be stated that some sources state that Singh was present, while others dispute this. However, this would not add anything substantial to the article. Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 21:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

With all due respect, it does add substantially to the article, in that it states the reason why Bhagat Singh was aggravated for the murder, i.e. because he saw the lathi-charge as a first hand witness. - Ashubhalaa (talk) 07:48, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, the "Assembly bomb throwing incident" does not have any reference to the reasons which formed the base of such an act. Yes, he was inspired by Auguste, however, according to this source - http://www.marxists.org/archive/bhagat-singh/1929/04/08.htm - the Trade Dispute Bill and the Public Safety Bill, which were unjust in nature, were the reasons for the bombing, so as to "make the deaf hear". Kindly comment.

- Ashubhalaa (talk) 17:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I've also noticed that in the section "Assembly bomb case trial", there is no mention of Asaf Ali, who was a congress party member and a lawyer and who defended Bhagat Singh and Batukeshwar Dutt in the case. The following source substantiates the same - http://www.indialawjournal.com/volume1/issue_3/bhagat_singh.html

- Ashubhalaa (talk) 17:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The section you mention ran into difficulties with copyvio of India Law Journal a few days ago, and was completely re-written. Please bear this in mind while adding something to the article. Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 21:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

In the section "Hunger strike and Lahore conspiracy case" the statement that the case proceedings were carried out in the absence of the accussed, follows the statement that Prem Dutt threw a slipper at Jai Gopal. The two statements seem to create a correlation, that does not exist. Actually, the revolutionaries cited various reasons to Rai Sahib Pandit Sri Kishen as to why they didn't wish to attend the court. This is the reason why the proceedings slowed down and therefore Lord Irwin came up with the ordinance, which has been duly mentioned in the following section. Also, please note that this was the ordinance which empowered the special tribunal to carry out the proceedings without the presence of the accused. Please see the following source for corroboration of the above - 1.) http://www.shahidbhagatsingh.org/index.asp?link=refusing_court and 2.)http://www.shahidbhagatsingh.org/index.asp?link=lcc_ordinance

- Ashubhalaa (talk) 18:50, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

This is a source that brings together different aspects of the aftermath of the slipper throwing incident. You could edit the article as you like. Just ensure that the edits are sourced properly and are devoid of copyvios. Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 21:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)