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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 5mrjoe (talk | contribs) at 06:18, 17 February 2012 (→the earth expanded .com...deleted ??: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Notice Coming here to ask why I reverted your edit? Read this page first...

Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply. If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, or I'm slow to reply, feel free to approach me here.

Welcome to my talk page! I am an administrator here on Wikipedia. That means I am here to help. It does not mean that I have any special status or something, it just means that I get to push a few extra buttons to help maintain this encyclopedia.

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You can email me from this link but in the interests of Wiki-transparency, please message me on this page unless there are pressing reasons to do otherwise. Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, flame baiting, or that are excessively rude may be deleted without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right; don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.

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That's why we've created a survey here where you can answer all the questions about what you do here anonymously. What's more, the results will be used to make the editing experience better for all. Thank you.

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Old Turkic Script

Hello Dougweller,

well, I think Amanjolov is quiet qualified for this topic, just convince yourself: Amanjolov Biography

Cheers Tirgil34 -(talk) 10:46, 20 January 2012 (CET)

Tallk back

Hello, Doug Weller. You have new messages at TopGun's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Davykamanzi

Doug, what was resolved by this discussion? Davy still has the same user page. Indeed, he continues to update it. If it weren't for the ANI discussion, I would deal with it in the normal way for inappropriate user pages, but I don't want to trod on anyone's toes.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:30, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say ask Ched. Or revive it. Dougweller (talk) 10:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There's a third option, which is following the steps at WP:MFD, which seems preferable to me than to resurrecting the topic at ANI. However, I don't see any urgency in any of this, so I'll see what Ched has to say. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Ask Ched and depending on what he says, MfD. Dougweller (talk) 14:26, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A new BCE/AD warrior

2 articles so far, [1] and [2], both of which have used the BCE style for many years. Discussion have been started at both talkpages. Heiro 04:34, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not a warrior on the topic. I usually focus on the elimination of weasel words on wikipedia. I have started the topic on the talk page because that is what the rules state. If User talk:Heironymous Rowe had not invalidly revert my edit, my attention would have been elsewhere. Primus128 (talk) 06:33, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've hit 3RR and you have been actively reverting BCE for some time. You are also using a 'rule' which does not exist. The original date does not have priority. It's up to you to arguje for a change. Dougweller (talk) 06:38, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did hit it, and I stopped. On the other hand, people on the other side also hit the 3RR and never received a warning from you. Maybe this is because of your history of actively reverting BC/AD? You will also notice that MANY of the topics I have edited do have the BCE/CE style. The BCE/CE date style does not bother me. Inconsistency and biased enforcement of the rules does. Primus128 (talk) 07:03, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Or maybe I didn't warn anyone else because in fact no one else hit 3RR. You can't lump in an edit by Hiero 3 days ago and give him a warning, which is what you did. I didn't give him a warning because there is no 2RR warning. The fact that you are changing era styles in articles that have been stable for years suggests that BCE does bother you. I don't have a history of arbitrarily reverting BC/AD, I do revert when someone comes along and makes such changes without a justification. Is that a problem? It's pretty rare, by the way, to find IP changes (and they are usually IPs) from BC to BCE. Dougweller (talk) 07:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dravidians

Hi Doug I did send you an email..but thought i would write to you here too.. Doug it is very well established among historians and anthropologists that the Dravidians went to India from Mesopotamia and established the three major civilizations in India. In India today,it is hard to track the Dravidians ,yes most are in the South of India where many have mixed in with the indigenous of India..but Dravidians are scattered throughout India and Afghanistan.. I am disappointed with your edit because you have left a blank in Indian history where there does not need to be.. Please reply ,as i too would like accuracy , Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Difiicult (talk • contribs) 10:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't care at all who it was, but you changed cited sources and added unsourced statements. Find some reliable sources but read WP:RS before you add them. Don't use websites, use academy sources. Dougweller (talk) 11:20, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see you've had contact with him too. I've given him the same advice. I guess I will have to state this more clearly. Daniel Case (talk) 18:04, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Focussing now on relevant facts > ... We could [for example] probably cite the postulated relationship between the old Elamite language and the Dravidian ones ... It should be feasible to find suitable sources. --DLMcN (talk) 18:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC) >[reply]
^ Perhaps: David McAlpin, "Toward Proto-Elamo-Dravidian", Language vol. 50 no. 1 (1974); David McAlpin: "Elamite and Dravidian, Further Evidence of Relationships", Current Anthropology vol. 16 no. 1 (1975); David McAlpin: "Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation", in Madhav M. Deshpande and Peter Edwin Hook: Aryan and Non-Aryan in India, Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (1979); David McAlpin, "Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The Evidence and its Implications", Transactions of the American Philosophical Society vol. 71 pt. 3, (1981) ... --DLMcN (talk) 18:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Impressive. Not something I have time for - although more interesting than "Mathematical Structure in Suras based on number 19 (Over it is Nineteen 74:30)" above which I need to figure out. Dougweller (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:Berlin

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Edits on Abu Simbel page

Hi Doug,

I'm wondering why the edits I made on the Abu Simbel page are marked as vandalism. I am an employee of an online "encyclopedia" of information about Egypt that has been around since about 1995, and has even been associated with the Ministry of Tourism for about 10 years, and I am just including valuable information from our site to related articles on Wikipedia to add information.

Please let me know what I should do to change things back.

Thanks.

Mona — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monaibra (talk • contribs) 06:51, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

They are a copyright violation. If you are offering to release the copyright to us, you could possibly do that, but I doubt you want to. As an employee of Touregypt you should not be adding material from the site to the article or links to the site in any case, see WP:COI. And finally, we don't consider that Touregypt meets our criteria as a source as defined at WP:VERIFY and WP:RS. Certainly for Ancient Egypt we should be using academic sources and those are clearly available. To be honest, your edits have caused us problems as we have to go through and remove them. Are you the only employee doing this? I ask as we have a similar but greater problem with another editor. Dougweller (talk) 07:00, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, their edits are also copyvio from Touregypt. Dougweller (talk) 07:05, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]


I'm the only employee doing this. How would you recommend that I add the information in?Monaibra (talk) 07:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Editor posted the same message in my talk page and I told the user to take it forward with you as you are already in contact with the user .Just for infro.Thanks.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Monaibra, if touregypt is the website to which you refer, the easiest way to do this is to get your employers to release either the entire website or specific pages under a license compatible with Wikipedia's. We recommend Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License and Wikipedia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License, but any license marked compatible at WP:COMPLIC would do. To do this, they would need to modify their statement that currently reads "Copyright © 1996-2011 Tour Egypt. All Rights Reserved." Some recommended language can be found at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. There are alternative approaches, but these are much more difficult. If you'd like to explore them, please come to my talk page so we can discuss it further. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:15, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Moonridden girl is correct, but I need to be honest with you, there are two other hurdles. One is WP:COI - as an employee of touregypt.net you shouldn't be adding material from your site, and clearly not links. And the other is what I've said above, that for Ancient Egypt at least we really do want sources more in line with WP:RS and that means in this case academic books and journals wherever possible. Dougweller (talk) 12:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, User:94.175.118.39 continuously keep re-adding information that have been previous removed to articles such as Tocharians and Tarim Basin. I noticed you and several other editors have reverted this anonymous user's edit in revision history, but the anonymous user keeps coming back to the articles. This time, the user for example has added a reference [3] (the user copied it word for word from the source material, i.e. "The documents date..."), but the reference only supported a new sentence, and several other claims in the paragraph are not supported by any references.--Sevilledade (talk) 06:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted and warned, thanks. Dougweller (talk) 17:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

blog del narco

Even though blog del narco is a blog I believe it is considered a reliable source. Please reconsider the removal of my link. Phoenician Patriot (talk) 17:56, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What you need to do now is go to WP:ELN] and get other opinions, explaining why you think it is different from an ordinary blog, They might agree. Dougweller (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, Thanks Phoenician Patriot (talk) 18:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard

FYI, please see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Topic ban proposal for Anupam and Lionelt. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:03, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Doug. Thanks for your note.

Have a great week. - Paul Paul Race (talk) 11:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Exodus

Quark sent me a "please help me" request and looking through the extensive talk sections, I'm struggling to figure out what he wants to do and why he thinks I can help (other than to further confuse the issue). It appears that he wants to add an off-topic section on the Bronze Age collapse of Egypt and the near east - which I don't know if I'd support. Is this it or does he have a problem with the POV of the whole page? Ckruschke (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke[reply]

He's been canvassing in various places. The Bronze Age collapse bit has no sources discussing The Exodus, and Quark keeps ducking the issue of original research, instead just saying that loads of scholars believe the Exodus actually took place. I don't think he'd be happy unless the article had that pov. Dougweller (talk) 15:55, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kind of what I thought. I would be happy too if the page talked more about the Exodus as fact, but unfortunately I can't produce any (legitimate) sources either. 3 yrs ago I too would be ticked by this seeming POV pushing by "biased" non-Christians (or even other Christians). However, I've now come to understand that Wiki is about more than just making sure I agree with everything that's in print on my favorite page.
Looks like PiCo has setup a para by para review of the page, which should honestly really thrill Quark, so I'll check in and contribute to that. Thanks again - Ckruschke (talk) 16:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke[reply]

Wrong Reason Given for Deletion

Dear Dougweller,

You have chosen to delete the entry about the book YESHUA and given the reason as "someone's version of the Gospels, seems to be available only from this site."

May I respectfully point out the following:

1. The page is about "Books on Jesus" and Yeshua is a book on Jesus that is published in India in February 2012.

2. The book is definitely NOT "someone's version" but is a compilation of the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

3. Kindly note that the book is of the same genre as Diatessaron which you will find included among the "ancient" books.

4. Nowhere does it say that the book is available only from the website. It is being made available from bookshops across India and the rest of Asia in a phased manner.

5. I understand your, and Wikipedia's, concern to keep out spammers and others who endanger the integrity of the contents of Wikipedia. However, I believe you have made an error of judgement in deleting our entry as it is an authentic entry regarding a modern book on the life of Jesus.

We would request you to kindly reconsider and view the entry objectively.

Kind regards, Boca Junir

PS. May I further direct your attention to at least two other entries that are ACTUALLY someone's version of the gospels? Please look at "Swami Paramananda. Hidden Teachings in the Bible (ISBN 99903-23-41-0)." and "Yogananda, Paramahansa. The Second Coming of Christ (ISBN 0-87612-555-0)." These are books by Hindu religious leaders who have given their version/interpretation "hidden teachings!". I find it utterly amazing that you have chosen to retain books like these and reverted the one we posted.

Boca Junir (talk) 17:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't chosen to retain anything, I just removed a book that doesn't seem to have been published by a reliable publisher (see WP:RS, that doesn't seem to have an author, that is just published and thus not at the moment significant among all the many thousands of books written on the subject. The very fact it's just published (and not by a well known author, well known publisher, major reviews etc) suggests that this is promotional. Dougweller (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you suggesting that all the other books you have in that list are "significant"? I really do not think that is the case. Anyway, I leave it to your judgement.

But are you saying I can't add any books to the list? There is an excellent book by Charles Tempelton - do you have a problem if I add this? If you do, please tell me so I can save myself the time and effort involved in adding it! Here are the details: Jesus - a Bible in Modern English www.templetons.com/charles/jesus/ Charles Tempelton's blending of the four gospels of the New Testament into a single modern English narrative.

Thanks! Boca Junir (talk)

My first was an edit summary, using shorthand, my second I of course have had more opportunity to explain. I've removed some more books including the one by Swami Paramananda - can't find a publisher, the description was clearly promotional. As we have an article on Paramahansa Yogananda I left that one. I need to be clear - any editor can add, delete, etc but we do have Wikipedia:Notability (books) and WP:PEOPLE and I think one or the other of these need to be met before adding a book. So, we do have Brad Templeton - but isn't his book self-published? Dougweller (talk) 11:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent work, Dougweller. Thank you! Regarding Paramahansa Yogananda, we may have an article, but please note the following:

1. This is what the Wiki article says: "...Echoing traditional Hindu teachings, he taught that the entire universe is God's cosmic motion picture, and that individuals are merely actors in the divine play who change roles through reincarnation. He taught that mankind's deep suffering is rooted in identifying too closely with one's current role, rather than with the movie's director, or God."

2. This is the description from the Amazon page: "In this unprecedented masterwork of inspiration, Paramahansa Yogananda takes the reader on a profoundly enriching journey through the four Gospels. Verse by verse, he illumines the universal path to oneness with God taught by Jesus to his immediate disciples but obscured through centuries of misinterpretation: "how to become like Christ, how to resurrect the Eternal Christ within one's self.".. and "What is necessary is for the cosmic wisdom and divine perception of Jesus to speak again through each one's own experience and understanding of the infinite Christ Consciousness that was incarnate in Jesus. That will be his true Second Coming..." [[4]]

3. This is another description of the book: "it imparts the life-transforming realization that each of us can experience for ourselves the promised Second Coming — awakening of the all-fulfilling Divine Consciousness latent within our souls." [[5]]

4. Please note that there is no publisher mentioned.

From all of the above, I submit that this book can at best be included under "Controversial books on Jesus Christ". It cannot be in the category it is in because (1) he is promoting traditional Hindu teachings, (2) it claims to "illuminate the universal path" but what he is proposing is contrary to the orthodox Christian interpretation (Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant) of the Gospels, (3) he talks of "centuries of misinterpretation" but it is HE who is misinterpreting! (4) he talks of "resurrecting the eternal Christ within one's self" which is pure Hindu philosophy and totally opposed to the actual teaching of Christ, (5) he talks of "cosmic wisdom" which again is contrary to the generally accepted principles of interpreting the teachings of Jesus, (6) he mentions the "true Second Coming" as a non-literal event which is, again, totally contrary to the generally accepted Christian interpretation, (7) it also speaks of "awakening... the Divine... within our souls" which is pure Hindu/Vedantic philosophy and has nothing to do with the real teachings of Jesus Christ, and (8) the book does not have a reliable publisher.

Based on the above reasons, I request that the entry be removed from its present place. I have no objections if it is placed in the "Controversial books on Jesus Christ" list.

As for Templeton, I am trying to get more reliable/ additional information.

Thanks. Boca Junir (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

My Goodness! I'm amazed at the sheer lack of due diligence in checking the books in this list. Schaberg's book, "Illegitimacy of Jesus: A Feminist Theological Interpretation of the Infancy Narratives" claims that "Matthew and Luke were aware that Jesus had been conceived illegitimately, probably as a result of a rape of Mary, and had left in their Gospels some hints of that knowledge" [[6]]. Jesus conceived illegitimately via a rape!? Where did this lady get her information from? This is sheer (and irresponsible) imagination. There is NO way such a book can be included in this section, but it could find a place in the "Controversial books" section. Boca Junir (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:45, 15 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Everyone enters their favorite books I guess, but in this case it meets our criteria as a reliable source as it's published by an academic source, but I agree it's in the wrong section, move it there. Dougweller (talk) 14:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Harold Connor

That was really too bad about Harold Connor. I never new him. I added A.S.C.A.P. and a bunch of other background detail because I have worked professionally in so many fields, and worked alongside professionals in so many others that folks don't always believe me when I say I really do know what I'm talking about. I guess I'm being preemptive, for a series of articles I'm working on which may or may not grow into useful links from related Wikipedia articles. Have a great rest of the week - Paul Paul Race (talk) 19:52, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mound Builders

Thank you for the suggestion. I will remove the tag until I have the chance to review the sources that you have suggested and only replace it if I can't find something in those sources. --AntigrandiosËTalk 19:55, 13 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]

LOL, I see you beat me to it! --AntigrandiosËTalk 19:57, 13 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]

Not me, but that's probably one I would have added. Dougweller (talk) 20:08, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 13 February 2012

Mr BC/AD

I think Mr BC/AD is back: [7]. New IP ( 64.168.255.26 (talk · contribs)), but same Texas ISP as before: 99.101.160.126 (talk · contribs). Barsoomian (talk) 04:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What a coincidence

We are not the only website with a long time user named User:Trojancowboy. Apparently, Stormfront has one too, [8], [9], [10]. Also, I found some other very disturbing things. Do you mind if I email you a collection of links, you could look for yourself, I don't want to out the person on Wiki, but I would like your opinion on how to deal with this person in the future, especially considering this [11]. Heiro 09:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

email

Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Heiro 11:34, 15 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]

My internet access

It comes and goes, right now I seem to have it but still not every time I try to use it. Dougweller (talk) 12:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Calvin R. Schlabach

Hi Dougweller,

I am trying to contact Calvin R. Schlabach to see if he does have have any qualifications apropos.

I think some link to the agreement of a distinguished archeologist (in James A Sauer) should be maintained as it is both directly appropriate and a balance to the claim that it is not 'generally' accepted.

On another point, that claim without a citation is an appeal to general (/esoteric!) knowledge. I guess there must be citations available?!

Thanks DaveG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.184.19 (talk) 14:30, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think he does, but just qualifications wouldn't make him significant enough for us to use him. Which article are we talking about? Dougweller (talk) 14:37, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PV Narasimh Acharya page

Doug:

I have no interest in makng a career of defending my father's work or what I wrote about him. I feel I kept it balanced and cited the appropriate articles. They stand on their own. Thanks. (RaghuVAcharya (talk) 18:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Talkback

Just in case you aren't watching my talk page, [12]. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:36, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Might it be a good idea to proactively semi-protect the Kelso page? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We haven't had anything except the addition of the dubious tag again but this time by a good faith editor - although wrongly I believe. There are enough people watching it right now. If we start getting new editors and IPs with the same pov as Kelso I'm sure it will be quickly protected, meanwhile if it's unprotected we can get a better idea whether or not anything is going on, if you follow me. Dougweller (talk) 17:43, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I follow. 10-4. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:46, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Said in haste?

"Nor do I believe the claim ..." I think you should consider retracting that (even if you don't believe said claim). All the best. Rich Farmbrough, 17:32, 16 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

How far does GF have to go? I guess you know I've got good reasons for saying that. WP:OUT protects him but does it mean I can't make such a comment? Dougweller (talk) 17:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This[13] might be technically incorrect, in that the editor claims to have tried to contact Kelso but has so far not succeeded. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:46, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is it moves the focus of the debate to something else. There are already two fairly inflammatory topics, the BLP one and the NLT one. Getting embroiled in AGF, OUTing and ad hominem does nothing to calm the situation. I can give you a very good example of me walking right into this trap if you wish. Really the way forward is to get the legal threat stuff out of the way, and then let the policy stuff sink in. Might take time, might never happen, but it's better not to muddy the waters. Rich Farmbrough, 17:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
The debate primarily was, "Why was I blocked?" He was told why, over and over, by various users, and he wouldn't listen to any of it. You responded sufficiently to his final post, to which he cannot reply but does not really need to, for his own good. The best course at this point is to just leave his talk page alone and let him think about things for awhile. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, deleted it. Ironically someone else has replaced the 'dubious' tag on Jamie Kelso -- see my comments at the article talk page. Dougweller (talk) 18:28, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I had a brief look at the page - and Stormfront's. I can see there's a lot to do there. There is a much non-controversial biographical details of Kelso at the SPLC site, which would balance the article IMHO. Rich Farmbrough, 20:30, 16 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

the earth expanded .com...deleted ??

hi ..you deleted my contributuion to the expanded earth wiki page. my web site is based on the earth expanding and biblical truths, noahs flood. discriminating because of the bible content is wrong. i do not believe the earth is growing but rather the earth expanded on one particular day.. i use a balloon to demonstate that..i mentioned all this in my short contribution.. please correct reinstate my post. thank you .....joseph benante

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